Training & Nutrition - training your body to eat less

if I consistently eat less than I should during long distance ride, am I somehow training my body to efficiently make use of the energy it has? Would this mean that if I were to start eating more after a period of eating less, I will be super energetic? I'm just wondering if there's some sort of ideal manner in which your body can make use of the energy it is given.

Let me know what you find out.

Let me know what you find out.
ugh, I don't want to risk the possibility of messing up my metabolism :eek:
If anyone else would like to carry out a study and report back to the forum, though, I would love that...

No, fastening will not improve your energy efficiency. On the contrary, it will eventually make you bonk. However, it is possible that if you train at a not so hard intensity your body will learn to tolerate glicemic dips in your blood.

Ricardo

ugh, I don't want to risk the possibility of messing up my metabolism :eek:
If anyone else would like to carry out a study and report back to the forum, though, I would love that...

Heh... I was kidding. :D If someone had figured out a way to do that it'd be worth billions!

Only in America. Make them pay to get fat, then make them pay to get thin again.

if I consistently eat less than I should during long distance ride, am I somehow training my body to efficiently make use of the energy it has? Would this mean that if I were to start eating more after a period of eating less, I will be super energetic? I'm just wondering if there's some sort of ideal manner in which your body can make use of the energy it is given.

No. The amount of energy you get out of a specific amount of food is fixed. It *is* possible to be a more efficient rider - to waste less energy.

As Ricardo notes, you are just increasing the chances of bonking, and a good bonk will stay with you for days (I tried to write that so it's also true for the Aussies in the audience). I've ridden without a lot of blood sugar (but not bonking) and it's not much fun, and I don't see anybody making much training progress in that condition...

...and a good bonk will stay with you for days...
You can say that again. I think the last good bonk I had was in 1994.

I usually go for years between bonks, sometimes I just push a little too hard, or not carry enough food in the boondocks or just felt like putting in an extra 40-miles. And boy... every single time I've bonked, I've vowed to never ever get low on the food-supply EVER!

If the OP's "efficiency" is referring to getting more power out of your muscles with less calorie and oxygen input, then limiting food is not the way to do that. Strength-building with sprints, intervals and tempo workouts will build muscular-efficiency. Long distance endurance rides don't actually do much for muscle-efficiency, but does help energy-delivery efficiency, being able to digest food quickly and getting it into your muscles as well as higher rates of lipolysis.

After a one day fast I always feel more balanced and tend to eat smaller portions for a period of time. It takes a bit of determination, but it’s worth the effort.

I usually go dinner to dinner, so I have work all day to keep my mind occupied. Drink tea/water during the day and have a nice healthy dinner to finish it off.

You will be amazed at how good you will feel, just make sure you take it easy and don’t over exert yourself. There is a lot of info on the web, take a bit to look and give it a shot. It is not for everybody, but it works great for myself and many others-

Here's a question for you to consider:

Our not-so-distant ancestors were hunter-gatherers. In times of famine, they would have to hunt for hours--or even days--while they were, in fact, starving to death. A lot of their hunting involved walking or even running for scores of miles without food or rest.

How did they do this? What has changed so much about the human body that we moderns, with lots of body fat, can't even roll on a bike for 60 minutes without "bonking"? Are we carrying this whole bonking concept to ridiculous extremes?

My guess is that mos people who think they "bonked" actually just got tired because they rode a little harder, or for a little longer time, than what they're used to.

Yeah, but those hunter-gatherers are operating at a slow pace under the famine/starvation mode. They're certainly not doing sub-60minute 40K TT pace... :)


My guess is that mos people who think they "bonked" actually just got tired because they rode a little harder, or for a little longer time, than what they're used to.Yeah, muscular fatigue shouldn't be confused with bonking (running out of glycogen/energy). Common terms from other sports like "hitting the wall" really is just muscle fatigue and cramping. While painful and it stops you from further progress, it's not bonking. While it's possible to bonk doing intense sprints & intervals anaerobically, but most people don't have the muscle-strength and conditioning to do 40-sprints or 60-minutes of intervals, so they won't bonk, but quit from fatigue.

Bonking does require that you burn up your glycogen supply, thus you have to be working at a high aerobic effort for 2-3 hours. However, if you do start a ride in a depleted state, it may well be possible to bonk in less time that that. Machka posted a list of bonking symptoms in degrees of severity. Most of the time, I just notice myself feeling cold, then there's a loss of intensity feeling, like being numb. Then the legs get softer and weaker, but not tight, sore or cramping. Eventually the bonk hits fully about 10-minutes from the first onset of symptoms and then you feel just blah all over, cold, clammy and weak. But not in pain, just lifeless with no energy nor motivation. Just want to lay down and sleep. Or you're also desperately scanning the ground for scraps of carbs to eat. A candy bar will never, ever taste as good as when you're bonking...

No. The amount of energy you get out of a specific amount of food is fixed.

Mostly, but not entirely true. Membrane health and functionality plays a role in how efficiently work is produced. For example, in the mitochondria pyruvate is actively transported across the inner mictocondrial membrane, meaning it requires energy. If that membrane leaks the fuel back out, energy is wasted. Think of a battery, the two sides of the cell must be connected by a salt bridge (the membrane); but if you just mix the two sides together no energy is produced.

Our not-so-distant ancestors were hunter-gatherers. In times of famine, they would have to hunt for hours--or even days--while they were, in fact, starving to death. A lot of their hunting involved walking or even running for scores of miles without food or rest.

Most recent research and current thinking on this has it being a lot more gathering and a lot less hunting than originally thought. Also, i doubt they were running at a high pace for scores of miles without food or rest. I'd wager they ran little, and tried to ambush animals more than run them to ground. In either case, no one knows, just lots of 'theories' and guesses.



My guess is that mos people who think they "bonked" actually just got tired because they rode a little harder, or for a little longer time, than what they're used to.

I think your 100% right on the bonking. In bf forums anyone who gets tired starts a thread saying they bonked after a 15 min ride cause they missed one breakfast a week ago. :D

Most recent research and current thinking on this has it being a lot more gathering and a lot less hunting than originally thought. Also, i doubt they were running at a high pace for scores of miles without food or rest. I'd wager they ran little, and tried to ambush animals more than run them to ground. In either case, no one knows, just lots of 'theories' and guesses.


True. And walking is far from the intensity of cycling, so the body can cope much better. It doesn't have to bring out the energy from reserves as quickly.

Most recent research and current thinking on this has it being a lot more gathering and a lot less hunting than originally thought. Also, i doubt they were running at a high pace for scores of miles without food or rest. I'd wager they ran little, and tried to ambush animals more than run them to ground. In either case, no one knows, just lots of 'theories' and guesses.

I have read about indigenous people who were observed by anthropologists to run for many hours without eating. This was in South America, the Mexican highlands, and in Eastern Africa (where so many of the great marathoners are from). Of course they sometimes used banned performance-enhancing substances like coca leaves for endurance!

if I consistently eat less than I should during long distance ride, am I somehow training my body to efficiently make use of the energy it has?No, there is no such thing as "training" metabolic processes.

Metabolism, of course is influenced by diet, and to a much larger extent, by your age, gender and genetic traits. Certain hormones control how your body metabolizes different food and different quantities of foods.

Some people appear to add fat more quickly from over eating than others. But unless there is a distinct medical condition causing you to be in a state of disease, everyone metabolizes food the same way, regardless of playing games with your diet during exercise.

Some examples of diseases that affect metabolism are diabetes and hyper/hypo-thyroidism. Tumors on certain glands like the Pancreas and Pituitary can cause metabolic disorders as well.

Anything else?

Here's a question for you to consider:

Our not-so-distant ancestors were hunter-gatherers. In times of famine, they would have to hunt for hours--or even days--while they were, in fact, starving to death. A lot of their hunting involved walking or even running for scores of miles without food or rest.

How did they do this? What has changed so much about the human body that we moderns, with lots of body fat, can't even roll on a bike for 60 minutes without "bonking"? Are we carrying this whole bonking concept to ridiculous extremes?

My guess is that mos people who think they "bonked" actually just got tired because they rode a little harder, or for a little longer time, than what they're used to.

Don't laugh at me if this isn't true, but I heard somewhere that hunter and gatherers bodies' were designed in such a way that one meal could last them for days. In fact, I read an article in the Guardian that was trying to argue that Mexican children in the US were more prone to obesity because their bodies hold onto fat better, which is an evolutionary strategy that allowed hunter gatherers to convert stored fat into energy. So it might not necessarily be a case of scientists exaggerting how much hunting hunter gatherers did, but that they were just hunting in their fat burning zone :)

Back to the original question: so if you can't train your body to eat less, are there any athletes who are born with a natural advantage because of what their body does with the food/drink they consume?

Here's a question for you to consider:

Our not-so-distant ancestors were hunter-gatherers. In times of famine, they would have to hunt for hours--or even days--while they were, in fact, starving to death. A lot of their hunting involved walking or even running for scores of miles without food or rest.

How did they do this? What has changed so much about the human body that we moderns, with lots of body fat, can't even roll on a bike for 60 minutes without "bonking"? Are we carrying this whole bonking concept to ridiculous extremes?

Human physiology has not changed all that dramatically; however, human society has. Gatherer-hunters (right Jarery! More gathering or woman's work was performed) workedfar less than we do. I have read in the ballpark of 4-5 hours per day, as compared to our 8+! Now don't forget to figure in an additional work-out of 1-3 hours and yes we seem to push our limits far more. Remember, any human can live for weeks without food if it must, and considering that your life depends upon it the desperation factor must be considered for the hunting.

I personally love bonking to rediculous extremes but I think that has far more to do with my inner primate. :D Seriously, feast or famine tendency is real, but it seems to me that cycling burns cals faster than most activities--I could be wrong on this, it just is my guess...

In fact, I read an article in the Guardian that was trying to argue that Mexican children in the US were more prone to obesity because their bodies hold onto fat better, which is an evolutionary strategy that allowed hunter gatherers to convert stored fat into energy.
...
Back to the original question: so if you can't train your body to eat less, are there any athletes who are born with a natural advantage because of what their body does with the food/drink they consume?

I am suspicious of the science behind statements like that. Espeically when cultural factors are considered, such as the difference between typical Mexican food in Mexico versus Mexican food in the United States. There is much more fat in the food here (more creama, queso) here as well as a far more sedentary lifestyle. Perhaps the article compared Mexican children in Mexico with Mexican-American children and reported similar findings? If not, it sounds like a bogus study.

These factors aside, there probably is some fizziological evidence in individuals that give people an advantage in competative sports--or simply loosing weight. Some people can while others have to work their a$$ off to drop a few. :rolleyes:

Dunno, but I would have thought that leads to bonking on an endurance ride ?? There is talk about essential replentishment on rides etc. and I was under the impression that there were pretty critical, not only to stop bonking but also to encourage recover ?

Cool idea! Bonk immunity. By exposing yourself to very mild instances of bonking, you build up resistance to bonking until you are immune. Or, maybe we could just get a shot like for the flu. Just don't tell Dick Pound.