Mountain Biking - What's wrong with Manitou?

I was reading a thread about Specialized bikes and I noticed someone talking smack about Manitou. I don't own one, but I'd like to know why people have such low opinions of these shocks?

In my case the blasted Axel that came on my Rockhopper acted like limp macaroni IN THE PARKING LOT. So I dumped it and got a Duke.

Please define "limp macaroni" :p

:rolleyes: It flexed from side to side and felt twisty when turning. In contrast the Duke I have now is solid as a rock.

My brother has an Manitou Axel on his Giant and seems happy, but he just started riding. From the short time I tried the bike, it was definitely very soft travel (preload didn't help alleviate it much), but I did not notice the "limp macaroni" effect.
On the other hand, my roommate has a Manitou. I believe it is a 2001 Mars, which has been replaced (with the Skareb?) in the product line. It is light, stiff, and smooth, and he loves it.

got a xvert air on my moab but i havent rode it yet and it needs some air first... we'll see how it goes i've always been a fan of manitou and rockshox despite what other people say about them...

My old Hartail came with a Black. It felt miserable from the get-go. Squishy turns and whatnot. I considered myself lucky when I broke a seal and replaced it with a zochi. I've heard a lot of good things about the Shermans, but frankly, I don't care. I don't like Manitou trying to enforce new standards on the rest of the industry when they've been anything but receptive to new standards in the past. I think the OnePointFive standard has its merrits, but I would sooner go with the new 6" zochi. I don't mind losing a little more money to a company that I trust and I feel has good support.

I almost bought a used black elite but nearly 90% of the reviews on mtbr.com were negative which scared me off. However if manitou was total crap they wouldn't be in the top 4 manufacturers of suspension forks.

Manitou has been great in my experience. The Mars was great and I love the Skareb. They are solid and perform. I have heard bad things about Rockshox so I avoid them. It's all different and people say crap about all kinds of products-justified or not. I suspect the top 4 are pretty similar with regards to quality and performance.

As for 1.5, if you don't like it you don't have to buy it. They aren't "forcing" anyone. 1.5 came about for logical reasons. Zokes are great and I've had great luck with them but they are a bit heavier than the others.

Originally posted by montlake_mtbkr
I ....snip.... However if manitou was total crap they wouldn't be in the top 4 manufacturers of suspension forks. PT Barnum said: "There's a sucker born every minute." He also said: "Advertising is like learning -- a little is a dangerous thing." Both apply here IMHO

Originally posted by RacerX
Manitou has been great in my experience. The Mars was great and I love the Skareb. They are solid and perform. So how was the oil seals on your MARS? HMMMM?

Fine. They were fine the entire year and half I used it for xc.
They are still fine even though I swapped out the Mars for a Skareb. I will probably use the mars on a ss I'm eventually going to build up.

Then you are in the minority from what I've seen and heard.

Originally posted by montlake_mtbkr
I almost bought a used black elite but nearly 90% of the reviews on mtbr.com were negative which scared me off. However if manitou was total crap they wouldn't be in the top 4 manufacturers of suspension forks.

How many legitimate suspension companies are there...rst, monroe and Sun tour (whatever that company is called) do not count as legit. :)

1 - Marzocchi
2 - Rock Shoxx
3 - Manipoo
4 - Fox
5 - whatever many other very specific indie companies that don't try to be big sellers (white brothers and Stratos comes to mind).

Really being in the top 4 isn't impressive. ;)...but still Manitoo has a couple of great forks...there 1.5 idea (the strength diff between a 1 1/8 diameter and a 1 1/2 diameter is insignifgant at best) is a waste but the big head tube sure looks cool. The dorado has fantastic reviews as well. :)

As per usual each fork company has an area it rules with very few cross overs. I don't like Manipoo (except dorado, I haven't been able to TEST the new shermans but they look cool :D) or Rock shox (except boxxer) as all of the forks I tested felt squirelly and looked like pinners underneath me. But they tend to focus more on the xc crowd. Fox has a horrible reputation for warranties and allow the user no room for home repairs. Marz is built strong and tough with little consideration for weight. People need to realize that the debate over forks is a waist. You can't compare a Beetle to a Mustang. They have different purposes. I happen to like the overbuilt and super powerful mustang :)...

Cheers.

Yeah... that sherman with the urban camo coloring looks pretty spiffy. Once you put it on a bike it looks awkward at best. So I give the Sherman an extatic 2 thumbs up as wall decor! You could probably make a lamp shade out of it too... Seriously though. If I ever decide to get myself a freeride machine, I would get the new 6" zoch. Unless I start hearing choirs singing about how great manitou has become in the last... *look at watch* five minutes.

as for answer/manitou suspension forks... I had the 2001 (I think) magnum R model on my xc bike, and while riding it the second time in the mountains, the stanchions seperated from the bottom of the forks, (boot?) so that the front wheel seperated from my bike, and was only held on by the front brake cable.... this happened as I hit some soft sand and did a slow motion endo type crash...

after taking it to the shop I found out that the plastic bushing holding the stanchions in broke allowing them to move freely...
anyhow I probably could have been severly injured because of this, I did however send them to answer and was sent a brand new manitou black suspension fork, which I ended up selling... so maybe mine was a freak case, but I probably will not use manitou suspension forks again. :rolleyes:

I've had forks from Manitou, RS and Marz. Of the three, I like the Marzocchi the best, because it suits my style of riding. BIG and Burly. Not a lightweight. I've had several Manitou's and preferred them over RS for durability and simplicity. Very reliable (except in Vegas's case) and very little maintenance was required. I rode the crap out of them and they held up very well. As a matter of fact, I'm buying another pair to put on my wife's bike (or my next project bike!).

I have no complaints about them and have no problems recommeding them for a rider looking for a lighter weight yet quality product!

L8R

Originally posted by Raiyn
:rolleyes: It flexed from side to side and felt twisty when turning. In contrast the Duke I have now is solid as a rock.
Comparing those forks isn't quite fair-compare the Axel and the Pilot and you're looking at two forks of the same level.
As for my pennies, I prefer my Black Elite Air to my Duke air. Much more plush. Regarding the issue with Mars seals, we've seen no problems with those at our shops but I noiced on one I am currently rebuilding that Manitou greatly improved the design on the ones I am installing now.

Originally posted by DiL
My old Hartail came with a Black. It felt miserable from the get-go. Squishy turns and whatnot. I considered myself lucky when I broke a seal and replaced it with a zochi. I've heard a lot of good things about the Shermans, but frankly, I don't care. I don't like Manitou trying to enforce new standards on the rest of the industry when they've been anything but receptive to new standards in the past. I think the OnePointFive standard has its merrits, but I would sooner go with the new 6" zochi. I don't mind losing a little more money to a company that I trust and I feel has good support.

Yeah, look how those disk brake mounts are fairing.

Disc mounts on the zochi? Oooor what? I'm not sure I get it.

Originally posted by DiL
Disc mounts on the zochi? Oooor what? I'm not sure I get it.

Manitou runs a different disk brake mount than any of the other companies.

Yep, Manitou offers the "Post Mount" type, RS and Marz offer ISO (International Standard Organization). Hayes brakes mount directly to post mount, Avid's require an adapter.

L8R

Well, over the years I have had many Rockshox forks, Indy S, Judy C, Sid XC, Sid SL, and they were all great. I now have a Manitou Mars Elite and it never felt as good as the RS's from the get go, it also loses air like crazy, has blown seals. So, my experiences with Manitou have not been positive. Next fork will probably be a Marzocchi or probably a Fox, but I wouldn't turn down a RockShox either.

Originally posted by a2psyklnut
Very reliable (except in Vegas's case) and very little maintenance was required.

indeed, it seems like mine was a freak case... but it did occur none the less

Originally posted by Waldo
Comparing those forks isn't quite fair-compare the Axel and the Pilot and you're looking at two forks of the same level.
As for my pennies, I prefer my Black Elite Air to my Duke air. Much more plush. Regarding the issue with Mars seals, we've seen no problems with those at our shops but I noiced on one I am currently rebuilding that Manitou greatly improved the design on the ones I am installing now. Fair? Fair? LOL! Problem: Flexy Axel Solution: Soild Duke I was going with my experience. I could have gotten a Pilot but considering that the Duke turned out to be a free upgrade I'd have to be a ******** pot-smoking Rheses Monkey to even bother considering the pilot. Fair!

Forks from RockShox and Manitou seem to vary in performance alot..One person may have a great experience with a Black, and the next person may not..Same with Rockshox..That's what I've noticed anyway.

No bones about it, the Axel is lame-o for anybody on/past a certain level of riding.

The Manitou's I've tried(Axel, Six, Black, X-vert) seem to be on the plush, side..The Axel and the Six having little or no dampening adjustments..

Rockshox I've tried (TT, Jett, Duke) tend to be a little stiffer, spring rate wise. The TT, the Jett, are stiff, and have no dampening adjustments, so they are like pogo sticks. I hate them.
The Duke I tried was awesome, I would get one if I was looking for a new fork.

I've also tried a Fox..It was the best I've ever tried, but it was the most expensive too. If I could only have one fork for the rest of my life, I'd probably grab the Fox..It was sweeet.

No 'sperience with Zokes..But they seem to be the standard which most forks are judged by. I really like the sound of the ECC lockout feature.

Raiyn-it's great that you got that as a free upgrade. The Duke is definitely superior. All I was saying is try to compare forks of the same price, but for you that was a non-issue.

Originally posted by fubar5
No 'sperience with Zokes..But they seem to be the standard which most forks are judged by. I really like the sound of the ECC lockout feature.

It is a great feature but unless you like stopping to flip it or the terrain is mild enough to risk turning the knob it is a pain. When I do take the time you use it...wow my climbing ability goes way up :)

I have a mars which i've had a couple years and just put it on a bike for my wife.It rides great and i never had a bit of trouble w/ it.My current ride has a black which i like a lot. I've had it a year and still like it w/ no problems.I've had good luck w/ manitou so far.I'd like to try a marzochi one day but not till i tire of the black.

I'm left with the impression that manitou is really doing everything they can to shake this bad image they've aquired. They've struck a chord with their reverse crown idea. While I doubt their OnePointFive standard will ever go anywhere, it at least shows they're doing their best to improve their product. Maybe in a year or two I'll be ready to give them another chance, and hopefully get to where I can honestly recomend their products again.