Classic & Vintage - Why doesn't this $110 531 frame bike sell?

There is a Vintage C C M bike on ebay-the listing is "vintage C C M formula one bicycle" so you can find it easily.
I'm casually interested in it because it is roughly my size-21"-but if you want it,grab it.I really don't need more stuff.
Why isn't it sold.The guy wants just $65 +$45 for shipping. It is a 531 frame-maybe straigh gauge, but so what? It is a bit worn, but no dents, just scratches, a bit of rust.
The components aren't much, but it is a more or less complete Reynolds 531 bike??
What am I missing here??
If it was a 19"-my actual size,I would buy it.
Just curious.
Good luck,
Charlie
PS -I've never heard of C C M formula one, but I'm not really a vintage afficionado(and I probably just mis-spelled it).

Add the cost of new tires, seat, overhaul, etc. and it's more than someone wants to pay for that kind of bike. And what's up with that brake lever position?

I bought a CCM at the goodwill awhile back for $25 I think, haven't worked on it yet, but it's kind of a cool bike. I would consider this one if I didn't have one and it was bigger.

It's also a really crappy Ebay ad. The photos stink, there's no attempt to "sell" the bike. I love the way the brake levers are put on - classy.

CCM, unfortunately, seems to be one of those marques that's constantly underrated and absolutely uninspiring to buyers - which is unfortunate as they were good bicycles. Back in the 70's I lived in Erie, PA - 90 miles down I-90 from Buffalo and Ft. Erie, Ont. Despite being that close, I think there were only 2-3 CCM being ridden in the area, sold by a hockey equipment dealer (CCM skates) who wanted to cover summers, too. He just couldn't get people interested, even late in the bike boom.

So it is just the wrong brand, with an uninspiring add. True, it need tires and a few other things, but folks who buy these old bikes usually have lots of old stuff-I do-and I don't buy old bikes.
His pictures aren't very good-that is for sure.
Thanks,
Charlie

I love auctions with terrible photos -blurry and dark but still good enough to make out condition.
I've won two or three of em and ended up with about 50% discount from what those items normally sold for. Perfect condition items.

I would be all over a CCM Marauder.......

I picked up one of these the other day for $30 and am slowly refurbishing it, where does this frame rank in the CCM lineup?

what is the item number for that auction?

I'm personally not of the "all Reynolds 531 bikes are worth owning just by virtue of the tubing they're made with" school of thought. A poorly-brazed, poorly designed, poorly finished and painted 531 frame may well be junk. And there are some out there. CCM's generally aren't junk, but there's nothing magical about Reynolds 531 tubing.

If I could find the ad....

A good CV'r would have posted the link..

If I could find the ad....

A good CV'r would have posted the link..

The problem is that the OP is from exactly one year ago ;) .

East Hill

I'm personally not of the "all Reynolds 531 bikes are worth owning just by virtue of the tubing they're made with" school of thought. A poorly-brazed, poorly designed, poorly finished and painted 531 frame may well be junk. And there are some out there. CCM's generally aren't junk, but there's nothing magical about Reynolds 531 tubing.

I just meant, this bike is as light as the 500-700 dollar bikes I was looking at in the store... I'm just wondering if the Formula One is a decent CCM model, or if I should scrap the project and just save for a new bike?

So far, I bought the 3 bikes for $30, kept the CCM and stripped the others.

Stripped and repainted the CCM frame and fork, found a set of aluminum 700c rims on a bike in the neighbors trash.

Went ahead and bought some Tektero Aero levers and new 700c tires. Also just picked up a set of Crane Creek SR5 brakes for 50 off ebay.

Planning on using a few year old long cage Deora I have from a Schwinn MTB, then buying a new wheel set to support a 9 speed cassette. 1x9 isn't the ideal setup but I live in Ohio so it's pretty flat.

thanks East!

The problem is that the OP is from exactly one year ago ;) .

East Hill

:roflmao:

There is a nice looking CCM "Seville" frameset from the late 70s on eBay right now, Item number: 150197243902 - Reserve is $100. Looks like Prugnat long point lugs, Campy style dropouts, black with chrome fork and stay ends in beautiful condition. Great looking Stronglight headset. 52 cm, so way too small for me. If it were my size, I'd certainly jump on it.

I know nothing of the Marque. Could some of these bikes have been French made? Don't know exactly why I ask... just something about the "look" of some I've seen.

The problem is that the OP is from exactly one year ago ;) .

East Hill

On one of my other forums theres a smiley banging his head against a brick wall..... (insert here)

The problem is that the OP is from exactly one year ago ;) .

East Hill

DANG your good! I went right along with it like a fish with a hook in my mouth,:rolleyes: then I read your post and as usual you were right on.

On one of my other forums theres a smiley banging his head against a brick wall..... (insert here)

I've often thought that I should ask the management to give us some more smileys!

I like the brickwall smiley--it comes in handy in the genealogy forums :p .

East Hill

The problem is that the OP is from exactly one year ago ;) .

East Hill

Dam....http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e317/jim2527/banghead.gif

I've got a 1920s CCM track bike in my basement. I'll post pics if I can get around to it.

As to the ""value" of a vintage CCM, the company's image has been destroyed by decades of produxing mostly Dept store gaspipe krap. Apparently,CCMs made some hot racing ish back in the pre-war days. Then, for whatever reason (bike boom?) it all went pear shaped. CCM needs to get back to their roots.

CCM, unfortunately, seems to be one of those marques that's constantly underrated and absolutely uninspiring to buyers - which is unfortunate as they were good bicycles. Back in the 70's I lived in Erie, PA - 90 miles down I-90 from Buffalo and Ft. Erie, Ont. Despite being that close, I think there were only 2-3 CCM being ridden in the area, sold by a hockey equipment dealer (CCM skates) who wanted to cover summers, too. He just couldn't get people interested, even late in the bike boom.

I agree with skyrocker. My impression of CCM bicycles are that they are heavy clunkers. I might be wrong, and I probably am, but I bet other potential buyers have the same image of CCM bicycles and that is why it won't move.

This is great: CCM is/was sold in Canada through Canadian Tire (big hardware store). If they ever made decent bikes, I've never seen them. Strictly Wal-Mart-eque rides these days.

There is a nice looking CCM "Seville" frameset from the late 70s on eBay right now, Item number: 150197243902 - Reserve is $100. Looks like Prugnat long point lugs, Campy style dropouts, black with chrome fork and stay ends in beautiful condition. Great looking Stronglight headset. 52 cm, so way too small for me. If it were my size, I'd certainly jump on it.

I know nothing of the Marque. Could some of these bikes have been French made? Don't know exactly why I ask... just something about the "look" of some I've seen.

This bike has freaky dimensions, just like I do. :)

It's really close to what I would get a custom frame made to. It would be a totally unacceptable fit for any of you, so don't bid on it!

It would be a totally unacceptable fit for any of you, so don't bid on it!

:roflmao:

I think you are safe from me :D .

East Hill

I was surprised to see this resurrected -considering the age.
A big aside.I closely follow Ebay prices on older steel Crome Molybdenum MTBs and Road bikes ,and also Manganese steel road bikes(Reynolds 531 is the only one that comes to mind).They have gone up by at least 50% in the last year.
A year/year and a half ago I cheaped out on Trek 48cm roadbike-531 tubing.It went for about $130(total)delivered.This was for an entire bike, not just a frame!Now it would go for at least $200 delivered.
MTBs of the same sort-cromo frames-are still fairly cheap, but not as cheap as the once were.A straight gauge one-complete more or less-can go for $100 delivered.A much more expensive framed DB CROMO will go for ~$170 delivered.Frankly,I can't tell the difference-ride wise-between straight gauge,and butted-doube, or triple(my Trek 930 claims to be triple butted True Temper OX II).It doesn't ride any better than a straight gauge Trek 800(just main frame CROMO-and straight gauge at that).Of course,I can't really tell rigid Aluminum from good steel if the tire are 2" and 40 psi.When I craigs list them I always play up the better ride you get with "good" steel, but I'm thinking it is BS.With me, it is an esthetic issue; I like the looks of the thinner steel tubes,and they are my vintage-more or less-(I am 56 yo).I can't use road bikes-I need the soft ride of big fat low pressure tires(and the upright riding position(neck).
Thanks,
Charlie

The joy of resurrected threads is that sometimes we get more information added, and I am addicted to knowing more :) .

I agree about the esthetics of the thinner steel tubes--it's a more elegant look to me. But everyone has his or her own taste!

East Hill

I don't think too many CCM bicycles made it south of the border...

In Canada it would seem that most people my age grew up riding a CCM bicycle and I now have two of them in various states of restoration / modification that are still very rideable.

Both are cruisers that date to 1933 and 1940 and although CCM made some high end road bikes they tend to be fairly rare birds as their bread and butter was in providing utilitarian transportation, much like Raleigh.

OK, so I just won that CCM on ebay. Road Fan alerted me to the fact that there was a decent frame on ebay that was exactly* matching the measurements my FIT session told me I needed. (Thanks, Road Fan!) 52 cm seat tube with a 56 cm top tube! I'm going to set it up EXACTLY according to the FIT recommendations, and we'll see what happens. All my bikes are 56-59cm right now, so a 52 cm should be DREAMY. I can't wait.

Of course, my heart stopped when I saw it mentioned here. I was sure I wasn't going to win it.

Of course, my heart stopped when I saw it mentioned here. I was sure I wasn't going to win it.

Congratulations!

Photos to follow, I'm sure :) .

East Hill

OK, so I just won that CCM on ebay. Road Fan alerted me to the fact that there was a decent frame on ebay that was exactly* matching the measurements my FIT session told me I needed. (Thanks, Road Fan!) 52 cm seat tube with a 56 cm top tube! I'm going to set it up EXACTLY according to the FIT recommendations, and we'll see what happens. All my bikes are 56-59cm right now, so a 52 cm should be DREAMY. I can't wait.

Of course, my heart stopped when I saw it mentioned here. I was sure I wasn't going to win it.

My pleasure, Solveg, you'll have to tell us how it works out!

Road Fan

This is great: CCM is/was sold in Canada through Canadian Tire (big hardware store). If they ever made decent bikes, I've never seen them. Strictly Wal-Mart-eque rides these days.

And that is one of the things that killed CCM - their decision to sell through the chain stores. Prior to that, they had an incredibly loyal network of LBS. But the chain stores underpriced the LBS and the loyalty was lost and the image suffered with the public. Then the chain stores pressured CCM for lower prices. They had burnt their bridges with the LBS and couldn't go back, so they had to cut the profit margins. As a result, they couldn't meet union demands for wages increases, the quality consequenetly suffered and things just kept snowballing. Of course, there were lots of other factors that came into effect, but the decision to go with chain stores and their discount pricing cannot be ignored.

CCM offered high end models as late as 1976. But by that time they were in trouble and gradually reduced the model line-up until they went under and the name was bought by Procycle.

And that is one of the things that killed CCM - their decision to sell through the chain stores. Prior to that, they had an incredibly loyal network of LBS. But the chain stores underpriced the LBS and the loyalty was lost and the image suffered with the public. Then the chain stores pressured CCM for lower prices. They had burnt their bridges with the LBS and couldn't go back, so they had to cut the profit margins. As a result, they couldn't meet union demands for wages increases, the quality consequenetly suffered and things just kept snowballing. Of course, there were lots of other factors that came into effect, but the decision to go with chain stores and their discount pricing cannot be ignored.

CCM offered high end models as late as 1976. But by that time they were in trouble and gradually reduced the model line-up until they went under and the name was bought by Procycle.

It's facinating to read how many bike companies went under due to bad business desicions. Strange too because so many of them got bought up and are actually still out there selling bikes (and I'm not counting bikesdirect name stealing) so the problem doesn't seem to have been lack of a market for their products.

Of course I'm not really sure how you would determine who's "really" still in business these days. Some companies are bought intact and continue operating as an autonomous business unit while others are bought out and gutted and just used for the name. So many of the old C&V bike companies were one man or family operations so what happens when the old master retires or passes on?

Just a general issue with some of this stuff- you have to be pretty knowledgeable to have any idea if the frame is worthwhile or not, have to have a lot of expertise to pick up all the components and mount them- but then have to be looking for what will basically be an old beater bike. I guess my point is that most of the people that would be interested in the assembled bike would not be interested in just a frame.

OK, so I just won that CCM on ebay........<snip>........
Of course, my heart stopped when I saw it mentioned here. I was sure I wasn't going to win it.

Congrats! If you ask that seller he might sell the Shimano 600 Arabesque group to you that was originally on the bike. That group on it is a good sign that was a decent frame when new. The lugs and chrome sure look nice!