Touring - Light Weight vs. Comfort, Convenience, Cost

I just read a thread where a guy was offering advice on lightweight gear. It had some good tips, but I found myself thinking that lightness isn't always the overriding criteria. I've made several choices based on reducing weight, but I've also made some based on being comfortable and happy, and matters of convenience, as well as what I could or couldn't afford. I'm wondering if others might share their thinking. I think, in the end, everyone's choices and tradeoffs will be a bit different. What's important to you might not be to me.

Here are some of my choices:

Tent - I'm 6'4". On my first tour I carried a tent with a 5'X8' floor, thinking I'd need it to be comfortable. However, it weighed 11 lbs. Now I have a Clip Flashlight. It's only about 7'5" long and very small, but it's also light. AND, I got it for $70 on Ebay. It works fine for me. By the way, I don't use a ground tarp underneath. I never saw the need to carry the extra weight. I'm careful where I set the tent up. I've been doing it this way for 30 years and have never put a hole in a floor.

Sleeping Pad - On that same tour I carried a long Thermarest. It was comfortable but heavy. On my next tour I went for a 3/4 length. Much better. I just bought a Big Agnes air mattress. It's light, long, and comfy. I'll try it on this summer's tour.

Stove - I have a Coleman 442 multi-fuel. It's heavy, but it has worked perfectly for 15 years with no maintenance, and it burns unleaded - the only fuel to use if you're on a multi-day tour where you'll be passing gas stations, IMHO.

Mosquitos - I'm going on tour this summer where it's hot and there will be mosquitoes. I can't stand hunkering down in my tent when it's hot, and slathering on DEET isn't that great. I have a mosquito net for my head. It works fine, although reading is a little annoying - looking through the mesh - and eating is a pain. You have to raise the net to spoon food into your mouth. I'm thinking of bringing a larger net this summer. I bought one for car camping that hangs from a tree. You can sit under it and read or nap or eat in peace - heaven. I'm considering bringing it on my bike tour as a luxury item. It doesn't way THAT much. We'll see.

Cooking - I have a standard MSR mess kit - two little pans and one lid that fits both and doubles as an oatmeal/cereal bowl. I could probably save some ounces by replacing it with titanium, but that would involve $$ so I haven't done it yet. I carry lexan cutlery, a Swiss Army knife for cutting meat/vegetables, and my luxury item is a plastic plate. It weighs a few ounces, but I like to eat off a plate. Plus, I can use it for a cutting board. I carry a plastic insulated travel mug and a one-cup drip coffee funnel. Those aren't luxury items, those are necessities! I don't carry a cup for cold liquids - I just drink out of my water bottles. If I want something besides water I mix up some Crystal Light in one of my bottles. (Sugar free, which is good because I'm diabetic.)

Books - A book is a necessity, IMO. I admit I try to find small paperbacks to save weight, but if I really want to read something I'll carry a hardbound. Being without a book on tour is unacceptable to me, so when I start nearing the end of one book I'll buy another. I'll carry two until I finish the first. Then I'll offer it to other campers, or leave it in the campground bathroom with a "FREE" sign on it. One time I wasn't careful and finished a book at dinnertime with no backup. I rode 2 miles into town in the dark to find a replacement. All that was open was a supermarket, but I found something to read. Another time I finished a book in bed and started the backup, only to discover I'd read it before! I was waiting outside the used bookstore in the nearby town when it opened in the morning.

Guitar - No, I don't carry one, but I've thought about it. When I car camp I love to sit around at night and play. I've looked at travel guitars, carrying it on a BOB trailer. Hmmm. What if it rains? Hmmm. Maybe I'll learn to play the mandolin.

I have 4 different thermarests. Two are thick and wonderful for car camping or supported tours. Then I bought a 3/4 prolite. I hated it. I sleep with one arm over my head so only my mid-section was on the thermarest, arm and legs from the knees down were on the tent floor. Since I had to wear my cold clothes, I did not have a pillow (fleece jacket) and I didn't want my clean bike clothes on the floor to use under my leggs, it was quite uncomfortable on the short thermarest. I have settled for a regular length pro-lite with the additonal 6-7 ounces and added fleece pants for a pillow or backup for the cold.

I've tried the Prolight and gave it up in favour of the "Trail" with the thicker pad. Much more comfortable. The new pads which are filled with air and down are getting good reviews re comfort and lightness.

I also will take things for comfort that are important only to me. Like a Thermorest lounger and a polyethylene stake hammer. Together they weigh about 2 lbs, but not having to only lie down while in my tent and being able to drive stakes without finding an appropriate rock makes these items good for me to bring. Other than while climbing the occassional pass, I've never felt a need to be lighter. It's not a race.

I've tried the Prolight and gave it up in favour of the "Trail" with the thicker pad. Much more comfortable. The new pads which are filled with air and down are getting good reviews re comfort and lightness.

I gotta agree with BigBlueToe on the Big Agnes pads. They pack down to about a fourth the size of the Thermarest, they are about the same weight at Thermarest's lightest pads, they are slightly cheaper than the Thermarest and they are a wonderfully comfortable 2.5" thick. The only down side is you have to blow them up. They are light enough that I've given thought to carrying 2! Think of 5" of pure sleeping heaven while on the road ;)

My bike weighs 36 lbs BEFORE I start putting my pannier, tent, pad and sleeping bag on it. My low gear is 24:28. I rode from San Leandro (Oakland) to Santa Barbara over all of those Highway 1 hills without a problem. I never ran out of steam on a hill and I averaged 14 mph and one of my riding buddies who had a setup similar to mine is 75 years old and kept up the whole way.

Now we DID eat in restaurants as befits a bunch of old guys, and mainly because the one day we ate in camp because it was on top of a steep hill and no one wanted to ride down and have to ride back up that sucker after dinner I ended up with the runs for two days. Give me a restaurant any day. And they're usually WARM as well.

The only real change I'd make is to carry a MUCH smaller camera since you don't use a bigger one because it's too much of a pain in the butt to take out all the time.

I have some other tours planned in the future - San Leandro to Tahoe via dirt roads. Seattle to Lewiston via the John Wayne Trail. And there's an Oregon ride in the planning stages as well. And the Montana Ride and the Washington Moses Lake ride and the -- well you get the idea. If you're worried about weight why not just buy a nice motorhome and get used to it?

Does anyone do hip-holes any more? With or without self-inflating mattresses...

i make hip holes as long as i don't disturb the ground too much.

I also brought a folding aluminum chair on my last four day tour. but it was a lightweight one.

it was a lazy (kind of) trip with some campground partying planned, so i brought a folding chair.

comfort is key in camp, but keeping the load light is key to "comfort" on the bike.

the less you pack, the bike stays more responsive and feels less like riding a bloated water buffalo.

I mostly stay in established camp sites and it pisses some people off when you dig a hip hole so I usually don't. I do however take advantage of previous hip holes or other depressions to put my tent over if available.

I mostly stay in established camp sites and it pisses some people off when you dig a hip hole so I usually don't. I do however take advantage of previous hip holes or other depressions to put my tent over if available.
Yes, there is definitely an art to finding the right sort of depression in the right location on an estabished site, or on grassed or hard ground. Sandy sites, of course, are bliss. The job is a little more difficult if you are sleeping two to a tent, however.

Another comfort suggestion that works from time to time is to bundle some clothes into a drysack as you would with a pillow, and put it under your knees if you suffer from a sore back, and you can actually sleep on your back until the pain subsides. It certainly means that the clothes and stuff sack are doubling up on their comfort uses.

Sleeping pads aren't my comfort item ...... my comfort item(s) involve clothing. I discovered that no matter what you hear, read, or what people tell you, it is NEVER as warm as you expect.

40C in Paris, I read in 2003, people were dying from the heat. My plane lands, the temperature plummets, and I spend the next 3 weeks freezing to death.

Australia is SO HOT, everyone told me, I pack for the hot Australian weather and end up freezing to death for the next 2 months.


My comfort items consist of heavy-duty wool socks, and a warm sweatshirt!!


Also, I am also a firm believer in pillows. I have several cycletouring pillows - three are inflatable, and one is a sort of stuff-sack idea. I usually carry at least two with me so that I can use them both under my head, or one under my head and one under my knees for extra back comfort.

And, I carry a sarong. Sarongs are wonderful! They can be used as an article of clothing, a pillow (I often use it overtop one of my inflatable pillows for extra comfort), a blanket, or a beach towel. I carry my sarong in my carry-on on planes, busses, and trains because it makes a great little blanket or pillow to improve the comfort of that part of the trip. I slept on hard bench, under my sarong, in the Sacramento train station last year when I was waiting for the train to arrive ... which it did about 12 hours late. I wrapped myself up in it when I took the night Greyhound from Eugene, OR to Vancouver, BC. My sarong is almost like my security blanket now! :)

Does anyone do hip-holes any more? With or without self-inflating mattresses...
I've been camping 50 years and have never heard of a hip hole. What is it, how do you dig it, and why would I want one? Thanks!

I have several cycletouring pillows - three are inflatable, and one is a sort of stuff-sack idea. I usually carry at least two with me so that I can use them both under my head, or one under my head and one under my knees for extra back comfort.
Could you tell what model pillows you have? Which do you prefer, and why? Thanks!

I have some other tours planned in the future - San Leandro to Tahoe via dirt roads. Seattle to Lewiston via the John Wayne Trail.

Where is the John Wayne Trail? I'm planning a Northern Tier ride this summer, starting in Seattle and heading east as far as I get. I haven't heard of the John Wayne Trail. I'd appreciate any information you could give me. Thanks!

I've been camping 50 years and have never heard of a hip hole. What is it, how do you dig it, and why would I want one? Thanks!

It gives you lower back support when lying flat
You could call it an ass hole too but folks might get the wrong idea.

http://home.nycap.rr.com/richboat/hiphole.jpg

Could you tell what model pillows you have? Which do you prefer, and why? Thanks!


The one I use the most is a basic square inflatable pillow. I suspect I picked it up at Canadian Tire for $5 or something. The next most common one I use is an inflatable neck pillow. I think I got it at Walmart, in their travel section, for about $5. It is really handy for the plane, bus, and train portions of the trip, but can also be comfortable in the tent. I like the inflatable ones because you can fill them as much or as little as you want ... and then they pack down to almost nothing.

I got another neck pillow, and the stuff-sack type of pillow, for $1 each at a Dollar store. I haven't used them very often.

I've been camping 50 years and have never heard of a hip hole. What is it, how do you dig it, and why would I want one? Thanks! It essentially makes sleeping on your side more comfortable. It means your hips are below the plane of the rest of your body, straightening out your spine, and reducing the pressure on your hips joints. Preferably the hip hole should be relatively shallow; you can sometimes get away with a natural depression in the ground or grassy area. It does require a certain amount of judgment to get the tent and mattress positioned over it just right. It's relevance when sleeping on your back is less important.

For women with wide hips in particular, and people with hip pain, it can make the difference between a good night's sleep and none at all.

I am intrigued by the Coleman 442 stove. Is the mechanism similary to the larger multi-burner camping stoves? If so, I want 1. I have used multi-burner Coleman stoves for close to 30 years in my petro-based camping.

I am intrigued by the Coleman 442 stove. Is the mechanism similary to the larger multi-burner camping stoves? If so, I want 1. I have used multi-burner Coleman stoves for close to 30 years in my petro-based camping.

I can only report that I used Coleman white gas stoves for years (my entire childhood and much of my adulthood) and the 442 seems similar. The burner where the gas comes out is similar, the gas goes through a tube over the burner to preheat it, and you have to pump up the gas reservoir. On the negative side, it's heavy. The positives for me are 1) it was cheap; 2) it burns unleaded; and 3) it's very reliable. When I was a kid you could find white gas at gas stations easily. Nowadays it's probably unheard of in most cases. That means you have to buy Coleman fuel, which is readily available - Walmart, sporting goods stores, even supermarkets - but you had to buy a gallon at a time. I usually want to carry a pint or so. (By the way, I just saw a new container for Coleman fuel in my local Ralph's grocery store. It was plastic and looked like it held a quart or two - still too heavy for me to want to carry on my bike, but someone might find it useful.)

When you can burn unleaded you can "gas up" at any gas station for pennies.

Pressurized gas canisters (butane) stoves are very nice. I have one and the stove itself is tiny and weighs almost nothing. However, the canisters are not refillable, and they're hard to find in small towns.

Therefore, unleaded-burning capability is the way to go, and the Coleman 442 is a good choice if you don't mind a little weight. There are lighter stoves that are probably just as good. Maybe I'll consider one someday - especially if my 442 ever goes belly up. However, who knows how long that will take. For now I'm happy with the 442.

By the way, it simmers just fine, though sometimes it hisses and pops a bit, and you can smell the fumes. I think it's happiest at full bore, but will put up with simmering. Full bore heats water very fast!

I never really care about weight. The two most important things to me when touring are enjoying my time on the bike, and getting a good nights kip. If you can't sleep well, or at least, if I can't sleep well. It really throws off the tour for me. At 6'5 all of the silly 3/4 therm rests are of no use to me and I find them pricey. I use a 15 quid massive 4 inch thick airmatress that I blow up when I get to camp. I love the comfort, keeps me off the ground and warm. I have no idea what it weighs and dont really care. All of the other sleeping methods I have tried just don't cut it for me. Guess the weight may bother some people though. But, my touring style is I'll get there when I get there.

I can only report that I used Coleman white gas stoves for years (my entire childhood and much of my adulthood) and the 442 seems similar. The burner where the gas comes out is similar, the gas goes through a tube over the burner to preheat it, and you have to pump up the gas reservoir. On the negative side, it's heavy. The positives for me are 1) it was cheap; 2) it burns unleaded; and 3) it's very reliable. When I was a kid you could find white gas at gas stations easily. Nowadays it's probably unheard of in most cases. That means you have to buy Coleman fuel, which is readily available - Walmart, sporting goods stores, even supermarkets - but you had to buy a gallon at a time. I usually want to carry a pint or so. (By the way, I just saw a new container for Coleman fuel in my local Ralph's grocery store. It was plastic and looked like it held a quart or two - still too heavy for me to want to carry on my bike, but someone might find it useful.)

When you can burn unleaded you can "gas up" at any gas station for pennies.

Pressurized gas canisters (butane) stoves are very nice. I have one and the stove itself is tiny and weighs almost nothing. However, the canisters are not refillable, and they're hard to find in small towns.

Therefore, unleaded-burning capability is the way to go, and the Coleman 442 is a good choice if you don't mind a little weight. There are lighter stoves that are probably just as good. Maybe I'll consider one someday - especially if my 442 ever goes belly up. However, who knows how long that will take. For now I'm happy with the 442.

By the way, it simmers just fine, though sometimes it hisses and pops a bit, and you can smell the fumes. I think it's happiest at full bore, but will put up with simmering. Full bore heats water very fast!

You can buy quart cans of white gas at some mountaineering shops, usually for more than a gallon can would cost at Wal-Mart. It's sold by MSR as a special fuel for their stoves, although I seriously doubt that it does anything that Coleman fuel or straight white gas doesn't do. I've also seen quart cans of Coleman fuel, again the per unit cost was much higher than for a gallon can. When I toured Scotland Coleman fuel was only available in 1/2 liter cans. A shop in Edinburgh wanted 6.50 pounds ($13) for a 1/2 liter can, a shop in Inverness wanted 4 pounds ($7.60).

I've encountered resistance from gas station owners when I tried to fill a fuel bottle at the pump, they were reluctant to let me do it. I've also noticed that my liquid fuel stove needs a little more frequent cleaning when I run unleaded fuel, so I just keep a gallon can of white gas handy. I have enough different size fuel bottles to bring exactly as much as I need on a trip.

If you're flying someplace, a tiny butane/propane cartridge stove doesn't seem to upset the security people nearly as much as a liquid fuel stove. My Snow Peak folds up into a tiny white plastic box, I don't think the security people would even know what it is in an X-ray machine. You do have to know where to look for the right cartridge at your destination, though.

Where is the John Wayne Trail? I'm planning a Northern Tier ride this summer, starting in Seattle and heading east as far as I get. I haven't heard of the John Wayne Trail. I'd appreciate any information you could give me. Thanks!

In 2004, I had the same predicament. We planned to fly into Sea-Tac, but then how do we get to the start of the Northern Tier in Anacordes. Problem solved by using the shuttle bus from Sea-Tac to Anacortes.

In 2004, I had the same predicament. We planned to fly into Sea-Tac, but then how do we get to the start of the Northern Tier in Anacordes. Problem solved by using the shuttle bus from Sea-Tac to Anacortes.
I grew up outside of Seattle. I have 2 brothers and several friends who live there. Getting picked up at the airport won't be a problem.

However, I'm going to drive to my brother's house in Edmonds, leave my truck, and start from there. I'm going to do a little "tuneup ride" up Whidbey Island. I'm not going to go out to Anacortes for a wheel dip. I'm going to ride up Whidbey Island, then head east towards Sedro-Wooley and the North Cascades Highway. If I have time I might take a side trip up Chuckanut Drive to Bellingham. I lived in B'ham for 13 years and there are some friends I'd like to visit. We'll see.

I still don't know where the John Wayne Trail is. Anyone?

I still don't know where the John Wayne Trail is. Anyone?

Have you tried Googling it yet ... I just did and there are a whole bunch of sites that mention it. Seems it is in Washington. Have a look!

speaking of cost, my Ortleib backroller classics came in the mial a few days ago that I paid $60 for(shipped new in box) cuz they are scuffed. :)

Here's an interesting site I came across today:

http://www2.arnes.si/~ikovse/weight.htm

Ultralight bike touring, along the lines of ultralight hiking.

I could say: The ultimate lighweight cycle touring? Leave the bike at home and walk! :D

Seriously, there is a lot of good stuff in there, and there is nothing per se in the philosophy. But I reckon he is young, resilient, and needs to get some good quality wheels under him :)

I could say: The ultimate lighweight cycle touring? Leave the bike at home and walk! :D

Seriously, there is a lot of good stuff in there, and there is nothing per se in the philosophy. But I reckon he is young, resilient, and needs to get some good quality wheels under him :)

Rowan, thanks for that. I'm the guy who wrote that page. I'll be 50 next year!

Rowan, thanks for that. I'm the guy who wrote that page. I'll be 50 next year!
Yeah! That makes you young and resilient! I'm 51, old and stiff :D

Sorry also, that should have read "nothing amiss in the philosophy". See... old and decrepit even at the keyboard.