Classic & Vintage - Who made the best Japanese hubs and what we're they?

I've come across some nice Japanese hubs while working on bikes but who made the best? Sunshine low flange? High flange Suzue? Joytech track? What are your opinions?

Sunshine Pro-Ams get my vote - at least among vintage hubs.

Suntour Superbe Pro Track, in my opinion.

Suntour,best value for your money.

I have a bunch of Japanese hubs on wheels that are 20 and 25 years old. Most of them are still as good as new, with a minimum of upkeep. It might be easier for create a list of "bad" Japanese hubs than to create a list of good ones.

Suntour really wasn't a hub maker. I believe all the later Suntour badged hubs were actually Sunshines, although I could be wrong on this. I agree with USAZ on the Sunshine pro-ams; they are amazing and undervalued hubs.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/japan.html#sansin

sansin/shunshine suzue and suntour all came out of the same molds. there are some differences in their design (ie my suntours are sealed looseball, while the sunshine njs hub i had did not). all 3 made some good hubs.

At the time Superbe came out, Shimano had been doing quite well selling unified groups, and the loose consortium of manufacturers competing with them (Dia Compe/SR/Suntour/Sashin/MKS) felt the need for a cohesive road group, hence the unified groups under the Suntour Superbe and Cyclone names. Manufacture of the parts were left to individual manufacturers, even though they were all badged as Suntours. The hubs were Sanshin, cranks Sakae Ringyo, etc. Such is my understanding, anyhoo. Every sunshine I've had is loose ball. I'm not even certain they are still about, frankly, so I cant pretend much expertise...

While we're on the subject of vintage Japanese hubs, the early Shimano Dura-Ace hubs are really, really nice as well. I'm pretty certain if you blindfolded me and had me spin Dura-Ace, Sunshine pro-ams, Normandy Luxe Comps, and Campy Record, I wouldn't have the slightest clue which was which. The Sunshines and the Dura-Aces were both available in a really cool black, though. Style points are henceforth awarded.

ive seen several brightly colored anodized old dura ace hubs, too. a tip of the hat to the bmx crowd, i suppose.

Never cared for the finish on Sunshine hubs - dull and corrode too easily. They spin good though. Suzues are also decent, but have similar poor finishes.

-Kurt

Sunshine Pro-Ams get my vote - at least among vintage hubs.

+1
Those hubs are beautifully anodized. I was lucky enough to score an NOS high-flanged 32 hole set about a week ago from a seller in the UK. They are the second set I've scored since April '04. Gotta say they are my favorite too.

Haven't had the oportunity to inspect/use a set of these sunshines but I am impressed by the superbe pros I have. and they would get my vote. I must say that the early Dura-Ace Hi-flange were pretty cool. My friend has a set and I am finding it impossibly to get them from him even with the 27" rims (which he dispises) that are laced to them. Guess I shouldn't be so greedy.
Superbe Pro gets my vote (or the sunshine hub which they really are?).

I have some '75 Dura Ace hubs off a bike which sat in a field for 15 years. Rusted to hell and back, but still roll smoother than many new hubs I've seen.

I'm not a fan of DA, but I was impressed.

My '87 Bianchi has Specialized hubs (w/cartridge bearings). Who made these?

My '87 Bianchi has Specialized hubs (w/cartridge bearings). Who made these?

Specialized and Suntour hubs were manufactured by Sanshin Matsumoto Works Co., LTD. They also produced the easier to remember "Sunshine" hubs.

I've got old (70's) Dura Ace high flange track and Superbe Pro track (mid 80's). All are fantastic hubs, easily as good as the Campagnolo Super Record track hubs and Zeus hubs I also have.

Where does Shimano Crane fit in here? I heard somewhere they were pretty decent quality for the day, true or no?
Sfene

Crane = Dura Ace. From about 1975 IIRC

Thanx

Never cared for the finish on Sunshine hubs - dull and corrode too easily.-KurtYou can't be talking about the Pro-Ams. Mine have been in continuous use on various bikes since '77 and are still the best looking hubs I own. (and that includes Campi and 1st gen Dura-Ace.) Those early D-As are probably equivalent quality to the Pro-Ams though. I think every major Japanese maker had excellent hubs at the top of the line.

Got some older Specialized that are smooth as butter too.

I think "Crane" was only used on the first generation Dura Ace rear derailleur, but as usual, am a bit uncertain. Most of this is due to the fact I generally start to figure out stuff as I run across it... early Shimano derailleurs were named for birds "Lark," "Eagle," etc. When they introdued Dura-ace in 1973, "Crane" was the derailleur, keeping with the ornithilogical trend. Not sure when they just became "Dura-ace".

Plus one on the finish of the pro-ams. I've several pair, and they're all still nice, despite some horrid abuse.

I have two bikes with Sunshine hubs, one set of which is marked SANSIN, not Sanshin. Very nice hubs! Of course I'm easily impressed, lol.,,,,BD

You can't be talking about the Pro-Ams.

That is correct.

-Kurt

speaking of older japanese hubs, i recently bought an older superbe pro wheelset. seller said it was built up but never ridden, and it looks pretty clean. the hubs are mid-80s superbe pros, and they are laced to araya aero 4 tubulars.

they were originally advertised as 32h, but as it turns out they are both 28h. that doesn't bother me, since i am skinny (130 pounds or so). what does concern me a little is the fact that the front is radially laced. i've heard that radial lacing doesn't always play nice with these hubsets. anyone have experience with this? should i relace them?

alk...your going to open a can of worms on the radial lacing bit. At 130lbs I wouldnt worry about it. ride those wheels and enjoy!!!!

My vote is for the very hubs you have, Suntour Superbe Pro. They have bearing races and cones equal to the best Campy and Dura-Ace of its day.

Never cared for the finish on Sunshine hubs - dull and corrode too easily. They spin good though. Suzues are also decent, but have similar poor finishes.

-Kurt
Well Kurt,
Where you live,everything corrodes easy in that salty air.This is why all those nearly naked women on your beach cover themselves with oil.

Anyone have pictures of the pro-ams?

Sunshine Pro-Ams get my vote - at least among vintage hubs.

Zorro,
Are these the hubs you're taljing about? I have a chance to pick up a set for $75. Is that a fair price?

Zorro,
Are these the hubs you're taljing about? I have a chance to pick up a set for $75. Is that a fair price?
Fair price if they're new in the box. Very nice hubs.

Fair price if they're new in the box. Very nice hubs.

They are NOS in the box. Unfortunately the auction hasn't finished. :(

The dreaded Tinkerpot wins again. I can't tell you how many times I've lost an auction to that guy.

MHendricks, the seller with the ProAms seems to have a number of NOS sets. You just might get another chance.

i would worry about it..
i've seen piictures of radially laced superbe pros with stress cracks at each spoke hole.
not a catastrophic failure but still broken

see this thread:
http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?p=1364268&highlight=superbe+cracks#post1364268



alk...your going to open a can of worms on the radial lacing bit. At 130lbs I wouldnt worry about it. ride those wheels and enjoy!!!!

My vote is for the very hubs you have, Suntour Superbe Pro. They have bearing races and cones equal to the best Campy and Dura-Ace of its day.

The dreaded Tinkerpot wins again. I can't tell you how many times I've lost an auction to that guy.

MHendricks, the seller with the ProAms seems to have a number of NOS sets. You just might get another chance.

Yes, with 6 seconds left!:eek: Oh well they'll be another set coming around and even if they're used, they are still great hubs. I can't remember that sellers name!

MHendricks, mine are low flange, so they don't look identical. As long as they're real Pro-Ams, they're good. NOS is safer, in that you shouldn't have any issues, but if you can verify used ones are in good shape, they'll still be very nice.

Once you get in the neighborhood of Campagnolo or OMAS prices, you're just as well getting Campagnolo or OMAS. I'm a tight-wad though. :)

I've always liked the 40 hole, low flange hubs on my 84 Specialized Expedition so I guess that means my vote is for Sanshin/Sunshine hubs.