Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Pros at MonsterTrack?

Thought I would put this out for discussion. I have my own opinion, but how do you think elite road racers or pros would fare in some of the big alleycats. Races obviously test how fast somebody is, how fast they are in traffic, how much risk they can tolerate, and how well they know the city, so I am wondering just how much of it breaks down into each category. Thoughts?

If they have the entry fee and the bike (track bike for, um, monsterTrack) - let 'em try. Hope they know the streets cuz the messengers sure do.

i think going fast is one thing and going fast and fast handling is another. i'd like 2 seem them try though. some might do well.

There is definitely no handling skills involved in track racing. All that track racers use is speed.

(sarcasm)

How often do pro tour riders see downtown traffic? Or ride brakeless track bikes in it? While plotting a route and carrying oversizes?

I obviously don't think they'd stand a chance. All the strength and strategy for a "real" race wouldn't be worth a damn at Monster Track or the CMWC's

Just as the ability to plot a route and carry an oversized package
won't help you climb the Pyrenees or make a 50km Hour.

Three sponsored squiddy teams totally kicked ass in our 24h race, which was setup alleycat style. I think a lot of had to do with consistency though.

How often do pro tour riders see downtown traffic? Or ride brakeless track bikes in it? While plotting a route and carrying oversizes?

I obviously don't think they'd stand a chance. All the strength and strategy for a "real" race wouldn't be worth a damn at Monster Track or the CMWC's


Not everyone who does alleycats are messengers anymore.

S/F,
CEYA!

You are comparing apples and oranges.....of course they don't know the streets as well, so they probalby wouldn't stand a chance if they were just suddenly introduced to an alley cat. But they definately have the handling skills and, given a particular route, could probably stomp the pants off of messengers even if they stopped for traffic lights. Obviously, if you gave the pros a chance to train in the proper environment, messengers would loose. Not to mention, they would probably have their support team scouting out traffic conditions during the race.

Just as the ability to plot a route and carry an oversized package
won't help you climb the Pyrenees or make a 50km Hour.

fortunately, few alleycats if any require climbing the Pyrenees or riding a 50km Hour.

Although, New Haven alleycats are pretty tough and it wouldn't surprise me if they had something like this in the works.

Alleycats require lots of luck and local knowledge of the city and streets..Which pros probably wouldn't have.

and you know the streets? an hour before any alleycat everyone looks at a map...
dont kid yourself.. you don't stand a chance against pros

the elite messengers would take the alleycats. The pros have the training, super light bikes with top notch parts, ect. but a good messenger should know the streets like the backof their hand. They should know the traffic and light patterns from various times of the day, what alleys and parking lots to use, and most of all know when to take risks. I think that in an urban jungle setting the messies would have more heart than a pro rider anyday. Riding in NYC or D.C. during rush hour is no strolling along a bike path or even riding the streets at night or during the weekend (when a majority of folks ride their bikes). Also pro events and events like the sanctioned mess events don't pose the dangers that messies face day in and day out on the job.

Feral
ex messenger D.C. '90-'96

Yes, yes, yes, now hop off the soap box and tell us how the pros would do.

Somebody should email a link to this thread to a bunch of pro teams or even local amateur teams and invite them out to the next race. Or alternatively one could organize a special race for this purpose. Somebody please do it, please!

Pros are freaks of nature with inhuman levels of physical and mental stamina...thats why they are pros. If they were to race an alleycat they would take the time to learn the streets and traffic to a degree greater than the messengers. Obviously that would be the winning strategy and would therefore be adopted by the pros...they would simply dominate.

The real question should be who would win in the skid competition!

I'm reminded of this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=145301&highlight=lets+settle+this)

You are all saying that the pros wouldnt know how to ride in traffic or know the streets that well. Did I miss something... are pros not allowed to ride in the street? I'm sure they never ride their bike for pleasure speeding around, they probably just send out their butler to go the store. They also only ride on trainers and rollers when they aren't racing.

Not sure any pros will want to risk their life in nyc traffic just to see if they can beat bike messengers at racing, closed courses are a little bit safer. I kina doubt it's high on their list of priorities.

And like genericbikedude said this discussion has happened before.

Pros have better things to do, but if they cared they would crush easily. Seems anyone willing to do the work can get a bike mess job. Sorry.

And they (the pros crushing) would do it on some $5OOO sculpted carbon (POS slave labor) rig that they have three more of, that someone gave them just for being them. Not some mystery (nice lugs yeah?) bike they found on ebay.

And they (the pros crushing) would do it on some $5OOO sculpted carbon (POS slave labor) rig that they have three more of, that someone gave them just for being them. Not some mystery (nice lugs yeah?) bike they found on ebay.

Pros would win on Merciers with bent forks. Doesn't matter.

and you know the streets? an hour before any alleycat everyone looks at a map...
dont kid yourself.. you don't stand a chance against pros

Also worth mentioning is the fact that so many people (natives of a town or otherwise) follow that guy. Most people that race these days aren't messengers, and knowing the streets back and forth isn't really all that common, so the person that does know will be your key to winning.

Hey guys, I just had this brilliant idea. I'm going to invite some F1 drivers to do some kiddy go-kart racing at Sir Putts-a-Lot. I bet they don't have a chance against me because I drive the atv to pull the kids out of the gokart tire walls, I know this track like the back of my hand.

F. Landis trains on a track bike so i bet he could with a proper map or if got to follow someone.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2002/jul02/tdf/stage20/AFPfloyd.jpg

Juvi... learn to do them no handed.... like this

http://pasadenacyclery.com/images/library/site/tdfclothing_landis_03_m.jpg

i'd say the average pro has handling skills that are well above normal. to me, the only disadvantage they would have is intimate knowledge of streets, shortcuts, that sort of thing.

Hey guys, I just had this brilliant idea. I'm going to invite some F1 drivers to do some kiddy go-kart racing at Sir Putts-a-Lot. I bet they don't have a chance against me because I drive the atv to pull the kids out of the gokart tire walls, I know this track like the back of my hand.

I can't stand Nigel Mansell.

I can't stand Nigel Mansell.

At least Schumi is out this year. I'm rootin' for Super Aguri!

When you ride as fast as the Pros, you don't need to know any shortcuts or memorize the traffic paterns. This thread is dumb.

Yes, it is. Better yet, it'll be back up in similar form within a month or two.

When you ride as fast as the Pros, you don't need to know any shortcuts or memorize the traffic paterns. This thread is dumb.

You can't go flat out through city traffic though.

You can't go flat out through city traffic though.

You don't have to. Just follow the guy who knows the road best, and crush him in the last 100 meters or so.

Ever seen the domestiques drop back to the car for water then work their way back past 30 cars and 20 motorcycles with distracted drivers on narrow, winding roads with 15 full bottles in their pockets to rejoin the peloton?
I don't doubt their skill in traffic. I would doubt their motivation to push themselves the way we do in an alleycat.

The people I know of who do normal races and alleycats and finish near the top of each are CAT-4 racers

So far, the only explanation that I can find on this thread
for why messengers (or whomever) would beat the pros
is because apparently professional bike racers lack the
motivation to compete. I can't be the only one who finds
this reasoning completely specious, can I?

F. Landis trains on a track bike so i bet he could with a proper map or if got to follow someone.

Does Flandis really use a track bike, or is it just his
regular road frame with a fixed rear wheel? I would
think that training on a bike with different geometery
than the one you plan to race on would be detrimental
in the long-run.

So far, the only explanation that I can find on this thread
for why messengers (or whomever) would beat the pros
is because apparently professional bike racers lack the
motivation to compete. I can't be the only one who finds
this reasoning completely specious, can I?

While I don't think the pro's lack any competetive drive, I do think it's unlikely that any of them would race in an alley cat to begin with because of the risk of injury. Would you throw away your career for an alley cat? I sure wouldn't.

Well duh.

Does Flandis really use a track bike, or is it just his
regular road frame with a fixed rear wheel? I would
think that training on a bike with different geometery
than the one you plan to race on would be detrimental
in the long-run.

Landis don't ride fixed.......

http://www.deraileduk.com/

"He didn't do it because he didn't have the right bike. Sounds like a massive excuse to us. But Landis got bucked off a track bike when he went to do a couple of laps of the track, which makes things better. Get used to riding fixed, Floyd, you'll be working as a bike messenger next year."

F. Landis trains on a track bike so i bet he could with a proper map or if got to follow someone.

if you have to look at a map youve already lost

and you cant always follow someone because A) you might get dropped and B) they often split the field with multiple manifests or different heats

this is why messengers that are seasoned are way faster than rookies, riding fast isnt all that difficult, knowing where your going and traffic light timings etc have to be learned the hard way, by doing it, same with navigational skills----once you know basic navigational skills and how the adressing system works, it gets much easier

and I know both bike messengers and car couriers that never ever take the time to learn why the adressing system is the way it is, many just learn it by rote, in an alleycat if its set up well, that is a failing that will come out

If it adds anything to the argument...20odd years ago I rode a 60km training ride through MTL the day before the Grand Prix D'Ameriques with Thomas Durst of Panasonic/SportLife. I struck up a conversation with him as he left the hotel and ended up taking him to the bike path and riding him back. I was messing back then and had gravitated to the hotel where all the pros of the day were staying. During our ride he said he thought messengers were all bananas because of the speeds we rode in traffic...he said in racing everyone knows what they are doing and where they need to be for the most part. Interestingly he though that we spent just as much if not more time riding than he did, and he was completely blown away by riding in the snow..he full on thought that was insane. There would be not alot of handling differences between the messers or the racers I don't think as both groups tend to be pretty good after awhile or you simply wouldn't be doing it. As was posted above I can't see a pro racer even being allowed to enter a closed course Red Bull descent race, let alone a full traffic alleycat. If the racer didn't manage to get himself creamed, I think he'd be able to pull the sprint from the bag if he was close enough and the finish was visible just based on conditioning.

I think I figured out why the messengers would beat the pros:

because no one here is a pro.

I know a Cat-1 cross racer. He would literally kick the ass of any messenger in the city, except for himself when he was still a messenger. He was at a cross race racing against someone who rode in the Tour. He said he had him on dismounting and running with the bike, but as soon as they would hit the road, he would take off and win because he was just -that- fast.

I'm sorry, but go to a Pro race and watch them ride. They're fast. They get these bikes because they are really fast. They're so fast that they don't need to have the skills required for cross running. They're so fast that you'd be coming up with no Pro rules for your alleycats.

Sounds like your buddy has the best of both worlds as there are some racers out there that started out being messengers, here in Ontario we've got some track racers that started out messin'. Yes they are-that-fast, but add inattentive cagers to the race mix and you've got a whole different race format than fast-faster-fastest. Knowing the ins and outs of traffic could add up to a big advantage, IMHO. All this is a moot point if no ringers ever show up to try it. If they did I bet their team managers would be soiling themselves until they got the phone call from said racer saying he was home and all in one piece. :lol:

Sure would be fun to see.

horse cookies . i coudnt give a damn how fast you are as a pro . splitting cars and burning reds while racing isnt the same as a closed circuit race ...2 many factors make messengers better urban riders for obvious reasons and if you need to think about it than what can i say ? give me a 10 grand ride , a year to rip out inhuman drumstick legs a little bit of epo and whatever other drugs you can throw in the mix and ill tear those pros a new one .. and i can say this being a pro soccer player over in europe once upon a time .....couriers drink like scotsmen smoke like arabs fight like irishman and still pump out the quickness day in day out ...love watching the tour though and do respect the guys for the qualities ...but wake up to yourselves ...

I'm a *low* level road racer, and an ex-messenger. I've done well in road racing, and I've won a few alleycats. Forget pros...decent cat3 riders would smoke most messengers. Power counts.

you guy's know messengers are regular human beings right?

you guy's know messengers are regular human beings right?

FTW