Road Cycling - need advice for an entry level road bike

I have a higher end mountain bike (yeti) that I love to ride off road. I have always owned mountain bikes and I know very little about road bikes. However, I am thinking about getting a road bike for weekly group rides and possibly centuries in the future. Not road racing and not commuting. I have done my best to read old posts to get an idea of what to look for.

Basically I have two questions:

1) For around $500 usd am I better off getting a used road bike or a bottom of the line Trek (1000) or Specialized (allez)? Trade off is of course getting fitted for the bike. From what I gather, road bikes seem harder to fit than mountian bikes.

2) If I wanted to spend more cash, how much better of a bike do I get for jumping up into the $800 range? My LBS carries Trek, Specialized and Cannondale. I was thinking about the Trek 1200 or the Cannondale R400.

Am I missing something or are road bikes higher priced than mountain bikes? I mean, for a mountain bike, $300-400 can get you in the door and $500-600 can get you something fairly decent. It seems to me that a $500 road bike is equivalent to a very low end mountain bike and an $800 road bike is equal to an entry level mtb. Please enlighten me. Okay I had more than two questions. Thanks.

Try and find someone who knows about road bikes and buy a used one from someone. Most shops have post it boards with a list of bikes for sale. The bike shop in my town has a Trek 5200 used for sale for $1200 and it only has around 1400 miles on it. There are good deals out there, and do pay a little for a fitting to find out the size frame you need. You can always tweek the saddle and stem if you have the proper size frame. You can't make a road bike fit properly if it's just the wrong size!

Descartes,

You don't need to pay to get fitted to a bike. When I was looking for a new bike, I swung by my LBS and kicked a few tires. They also let me stand over a few frames and would have let me ride their bikes as well. But, I didn't need to take it that far. Once I figured out what frame size to get I bought everything online. There is a massive profit margin in the bike industry. You would get your best deal online or at a shop on last season's bikes. I can tell you right now that 500 bucks won't get you much of a bike. I bought a Fat Chance MTB in 1991 for $2200. Today it rides no different from the day I bought it.

Steve

Originally posted by Merckxrider
When I was looking for a new bike, I swung by my LBS and kicked a few tires. They also let me stand over a few frames and would have let me ride their bikes as well. Once I figured out what frame size to get I bought everything online.


You used the convenience and expert knowledge of your local bike store, then shafted them and went and bought online once they'd helped you?

No wonder margins have to be high.

Originally posted by Merckxrider
I bought a Fat Chance MTB in 1991 for $2200. Today it rides no different from the day I bought it.

Steve

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? :)

I know I dont need to pay to get fitted, but as I understand it road bikes are a bit more custom fitting than mountain bikes. When I bought my mountain bike I basically had a choice between small, medium and large. After only adjusting the seat post, it fits great. If I were to buy another mountain bike, I know that I would probably need a medium or 17/18 inch frame regardless of the manufacturer. However, since road bikes come in so many sizes and, from what I understand, vary considerably btw manufacturers, I am not as confident as buying online. Perhaps that is all in my head though. If I knew I was a 54cm in a Trek then a 54cm in a Cannondale would be fine. Either way, thanks for all the help, everyone.

Originally posted by belfast-biker
You used the convenience and expert knowledge of your local bike store, then shafted them and went and bought online once they'd helped you?

Have you tired on clothes at one store and gone to another because it's cheeper?

Ever eaten a sample at the store with no intention to buy?

Test drive a car at one dealer and then bought at another?

Then you've done the same thing.

At anyrate, what's the crime of finding something at a lower price?

Originally posted by William Karsten
Have you tired on clothes at one store and gone to another because it's cheeper?

Ever eaten a sample at the store with no intention to buy?

Test drive a car at one dealer and then bought at another?

Then you've done the same thing.

At anyrate, what's the crime of finding something at a lower price?



"No" on all counts. My computer shop recently closed for good after 20 years due to the internet competitors undercutting us. Didn't stop people buying over the internet then having the cheek to come to us for support afterwards! You're doing the same thing but with the pre sales service instead of the after sales.

If the local shop is good enough to size you, let you try frames, let you test ride bikes, give you advice, the least you can do is buy it there. Thats why the extra expense is there - the convenience of buying local if something goes wrong, the personal touch, trying before you buy.

I think it's a bit of a cheek to take advantage of a shops good nature with no intention of buying there.

Just MHO of course.

:D

Thats crap.I am going after the best price.If they give it to me i will buy from them.After i get my bike from the internet they will be the ones i spend MY MONEY at for service and parts.What,because one car dearler lets me test drive and check out the car i should buy from them only even if another dealer sells it to me for $1000 bucks less,WRONG.Cheapest price gets my money and so will the bike shop if they are not a bunch of dicks.

BELFAST-BIKER whines too much!!!! I wish he wasnt so negative all the time, sounds like discreet bashing to me!!!!

I agree completely that you should help support your LBS. As long as the prices are reasonable I will buy from the place that helped me by answering questions and letting me try things on. Now for example my LBS has a mag trainer at $200 and I can get one online for $90, that is a different story. But if they are within 10% to 15% I will pay the premium for service.

I work for a computer service company and we have a simple guideline which I think they should apply to the bike industry, here is a brief sample:

If you bought the machine/equipment from us, in shop service is $60/hr, if not, $80/hr. There are no free questions, you want an answer to ANYTHING, you pay. If however you buy what you were asking about, the amount you paid for the answers is deducted from the price of the machine you bought.

If it wasnt for our policy we wouldnt be in business, which means you would not be able to get the service at all. What shokhead doesnt seem to understand is that those people who answered his questions in the LBS and helped him out cost money, and someone had to pay for helping him out. Basically in my opinion, he committed theft of services by using that information to buy online.

Attitudes like shokhead's are the reason there is no service in the retail industry anymore. And the reason so many idiots buy those el-cheapo computers that never work right because it had a 1Ghz processer for $500 instead of the one I quoted for $600 (the cheap one was a celeron, the one I quoted was an P3, with other differences as well). The 1Ghz was only an example, no I dont really sell anything that slow :-)

Used to be retail outlets cared about their customers, now the employees act like you are interrupting them and wish you would go away. Why? Because of customers who use them and buy online so the local stores cant afford to hire good help anymore and hire losers.

Just my two cents worth.

Allan

I am saying the same thing as you.If the bike shop is close,of course i buy there.But if i can get it 200-300 bucks cheaper of course i buy it online.Yea i will throw my money like hat just to buy local.You must be rich,i am not.I shop for the best deals,where ever they may be and not chepo junk.Did i say if i got a bike online the lbs would be where i buy my parts and srevice or cant u read that far.ook,i want the best deal. work hard for mine and i will make it go as far as i can.I do have a problem buying good stuff that lasts ands not cheapo stuff over and over.You dam well better be nice to me when i come in you place of money making.You do want return customers,right.Oh,its only money so i will buy it from you for 2000 bucks EVEN if i can get it online for 1000 because i am supporting local,so screw my money.Sorry but you better have a competive price.Oh i have a gateway and its a pile of ****.

Yes I am after return CUSTOMERS, not return leechers. If someone is buying from my shop I treat them like family. If someone comes in just asking questions and doesnt want to pay for it, then I shift them to one of our "tech in training" guys (translated=idiots that think that since they installed a hard drive in their mother's computer they are techs).

I am not rich (although not poor either), but I realize that if I want the LBS to be there to answer my questions, someone has to pay their bills, because the guy that owns the LBS isnt rich either!

Personally the trainer I spoke of is the only thing I have found, new that is, that the LBS isnt reasonably close to. They were a little more expensive on my bike but I didnt have to pay shipping either, and they fitted me to the bike and gave me a free tune up after a month. Those factors were worth way more than what I would have saved.

And by the way, I love how you say you buy the good stuff, not the cheap stuff, and then mention you are using a Gateway computer :-)

Allan

Got it 3 years ago,i didnt know it was that bad but its showing now.

Originally posted by Merckxrider
There is a massive profit margin in the bike industry

I actually laughed out loud at that. Where did you get this information? I'd like to know what brands I should switch to because our shop's margins are nowhere near massive.

Waldo,

Check this out. I just paid $52.96 for two water bottle cages and two water bottles. I just bought two bike shirts @ $135.00 EACH. 2 pairs of shorts cost $400. And I could go on & on & on. Are you trying to tell me that there aren't insane profits being made by the companies that make this stuff? Maybe my terminology was incorrect, but, this is what I was talking about. And to the dude from Belfast, you probably won't believe that the guys in my LBS actually told me to buy on-line. Maybe I didn't get my bike from them, but, with their excellent attitude I'll be purchasing many other items from them. Also, they're repainting two of my older bikes, including my MTB, which I did buy from them for $2200. So, don't have a cow. This is NYC, not Belfast.

Steve

descartes

Get a entry level 9 speed groupset so that you can upgrade worn out components further down the track.

Just my 3 cents.

Originally posted by mnppunky
BELFAST-BIKER whines too much!!!! I wish he wasnt so negative all the time, sounds like discreet bashing to me!!!!



Discrete? I'll be less subtle next time.



"When I was looking for a new bike, I swung by my LBS and kicked a few tires. They also let me stand over a few frames and would have let me ride their bikes as well. But, I didn't need to take it that far. Once I figured out what frame size to get I bought everything online."



It's not whining, it's saying that the original poster abused his local bike shop. He seemed to have NO intention of buying there.

HTH

He got the best price.If the bike shop would have had it,it would have been bought there.Its called shopping around,just like cars.Now the bike shop asks if you are going to buy and you say i can get it online for xxx amount and they say we cant beat that but i'll give you a better deal then whats marked on the bike and lifetime tuneups and % off anything else you might need then thats a nice deal that might swing me to them.The markup on bikes are large and dont tell me there not.A smart consumer will get the best deal he can.Of course you are using the lbs but if thewy are cool you are going back for all your needs and speed plenty there in the long run.I am looking at bikes right now and i am driving 30 miles away to different lbs for prices and there is at least 3-5 within 10 minutes of me.So answer me this.A 2003 super cervelo prodigy at the lbs for $1799 but you hunt around online and find it for $1399 and free shipping and no taxes,which do yuo choose?

A 2003 super cervelo prodigy at the lbs for $1799 but you hunt around online and find it for $1399 and free shipping and no taxes,which do yuo choose?

That completely depends. If that is all the information you are letting me have, and I can use "my" LBS, then I would buy it from my LBS for these reasons:

1) They spent the time and effort to show me bikes and find the right size for me.

2) Someone paid them to sit there and help me.

3) If I want them to stay in business, and be there to help me next time, SOMEONE has to buy from them, might as well be me.

4) They are some really cool people and I want them to be there.

5) My LBS took the bike I bought, adjusted it perfectly for me explaining exactly what they were doing and why. Then suggested necessary accessories. They also readjusted my derailers after I thought I could do better and screwed up the adjustments, for FREE. No online store will do all that.

Now I am not saying I dont buy on the internet. I am saying that when my LBS spends time and money to help me with something, I buy the item in question from them, be it bike or shoes. If it is something they didnt help me with, then I buy from them if the price is close and on the net if it isnt.

My complaint for you is that you basically stole their services and expertise on choosing a bike, in my opinion that is. And frankly, $400 or less than a 30% premium for those services is not too high for what I received. (When I consider I get $100/hr on site to fix servers and they spent way more than 4 hours helping and explaining things to me)

Allan

You make more then i do so i guess we shop different.The lbs gets enough of my money for all the services they provide,fixing my bike,buying gloves,tires,shoes,helments,parts so why not answer my questions on a bike that i will buy for the best price.

This is going to be a constant debate.. I buy some things at my LBS and some on-line.. it all depends. Sometimes my LBS does not carry what I need, sometimes the cost is just way to high. But if anything I need done which I can't do I always go their.. and I browse through there probably atleast twice a month and spend money. RIght now I'm having a fork installed, the fork and frame I bought on-line they did not have the fork in stock (fox talas) and woudl not be in stock in a timely fashion, and frame they did not carry. But I bought the headset their.

I to worked for many years in the computer service center, we loved it when people bought things on-line, the profit margin in computer industry at this time is about 5%, so off a $200 video card let's say we make $10. BUt when they come to us to install it we charged $65. While if they bought it from us we did it for free. Customer service will keep customers coming back and will buy things from us in the future even if they do not buy that one item. I directed many people to watch the sales that bestbuy etc have since they are below cost and there is no way we could beat that. I don't know the bike retail business, but I know computer retail industry the money is made in service on average not in selling things, years ago we made money off of both. I know I

To get back to the original question - you should buy on-line. You will get twice the bike on-line as you can at a bike shop. Better bikes and equipment are very good and last years, except for aluminum (just kidding all you aluminum riders). You can get a great late 80's - early 90's bike fitted with higher end Campy or Shimano gear for $500-800. Base on the description of your riding you will be extremely well served by same.

Don't be shy about getting a quick sizing at your LBS. As several have stated above, you will use them for other parts and service. And they will be pleased to have your business. Mine is and I've have never purchased a bike from them. But they liked selling me a $100 CK headset and charging me $80 to move the gruppo from my old bike to my new one (both purchased off of eBay). And I was happy to pay them. And will do so in the future. Enjoy!

Try not to set your price range right away. You might overlook a great bike thats cheaper then you were thinking or overlook a higher priced bike like a left-over last year model that your local lbs might cut you a deal on.

Since we don't know your body type, riding style, road conditions, etc., it is tough to recommend a frame/fork. No two people are alike and each brand / frame material rides different. Plus the geometry differs from brand to brand. This is where a lbs really helps.

As for components, look at your mtb bike. You probably have a mixture of components like XT or XTR on the drive train and components such as LX or Deore on brakes, shifters, etc. The same goes for road bikes. For a good starting point, the 105 components seem to get a lot of praise. With cleaning and basic maintenance, they should last many years.

The rest of my post will be my comments on some of the previous posts. If you are going to buy online then use that online retailer for your pre-sales questions. I am sure they list their email address or phone number. Tell them your body measurements and have them recommend the correct size. If you use a lbs for pre-sales, at least have the courtesy to buy from them. Don't try to justify the "stealing" of service by saying you will take your bike there for service. It will take many years of regular visits for maintenance to make up for the loss of the several hours they spent answering your questions, fitting you, and letting you test ride their bikes.

I am not rich and I do shop around for the best prices. I make a lot of bike and non-bike purchases online. But I know the value of people's time and knowledge and I am willing to pay for that. I also know that they will take care of me in the future with free tune-ups, warranty claims, discounts on upgrades, etc.

Don't try to justify the "stealing" of service by saying you will take your bike there for service. It will take many years of regular visits for maintenance to make up for the loss of the several hours they spent answering your questions, fitting you, and letting you test ride their bikes.

I am not rich and I do shop around for the best prices. I make a lot of bike and non-bike purchases online. But I know the value of people's time and knowledge and I am willing to pay for that. I also know that they will take care of me in the future with free tune-ups, warranty claims, discounts on upgrades, etc.

EXACTLY!!

Allan

[QUOTE]Originally posted by belfast-biker


"It's not whining, it's saying that the original poster abused his local bike shop. He seemed to have NO intention of buying there."

Belfast, You seemed to have missed that fact that I bought a $2200 Mtb from the same shop, not to mention a litany of supplies. I have a good relationship with the guys who work there and they could care less if I kick tires around. They know I am and will continue to be a good customer. Why else would they specifically tell me to go online after I told them I need a Merckx set-up? They couldn't even come close to the online price and weren't prepared to try to swindle a good customer. Now, I'm in the market for a new bike for my wife. A Giant TCR or the like will suit her just fine and that I WILL be purchasing from my LBS. Had they tried to swindle me when I was looking for a bike, do you think I'd go back to them later? Things tend to work out in life if you keep the right attitude. ;)

Steve

Originally posted by mcone
If you are going to buy online then use that online retailer for your pre-sales questions.

If you use a lbs for pre-sales, at least have the courtesy to buy from them. Don't try to justify the "stealing" of service



Wot he said.

I buy many things locall, and many things over the net. I don't use the services of one, and then shaft them.

Merckxrider, thanks for clarifying about the margins. It's ridiculous what cages and certain other items cost us, let alone a customer.
As to the running debate, there's nothing more frustrating than someone who picks my brain, uses my expertise for sizing, etc. when they have no intention of purchasing from me. I've just lost time I could have spent with a paying customer or time I could have invested in shop or bike maintenance. While I can't argue with some items that can be had online less than my cost, this is a rather frustrating thing to deal with.

I'm in agreement with Belfast.
it seems to me that the original poster never even
considered purchasing from LBS, just used them
for measurements.
My LBS will try to stay competitive with online stores
where possible.
The only times I buy online is for either vintage parts
(no longer carried by lbs)
or for items that LBS doesn't carry (specific brands etc.).
Merkx. you mentioned how much you paid for items
(assos Bibs?) but not profit margin, 20%, 30%?
I applaud your support of LBS, I have a feeling that
this isn't what BB and others are "ranting" about.

just my $.02 worth,

Marty

You know i am holding off waiting for a lbs to have a good price on a bike i like so i have been going in{while at least 3-5 salesguys are standing around doing nothing**and talking to them about these bikes.The ones i am looking at are still to high.While i wait'if i see one online and they cant match it i will buy online.Now that said,i have got in the past 3 new bikes,all from lbs and all from different ones because after i got the bike i felt when i would go back in it was like,who are you.The only one that doesnt do that is the one i didnt buy from but i take my bike in for service.I guess thats screwing the place i got the bike from.Getting the bike from one lbs and getting service at another,is that different from getting it online and getting it serviced at the lbs?As picking brains,most the shops have kids that dont do road bikes and as little as i know,its more then they know.I bet at least 10 times in the last 15 visits to bike shops i ask and they say,well the owner will be in at so and so,he will know.All business are in a war with the internet for sales and prices.I know that the markup on stuff in the lbs is pretty good,at least around here it is.

Originally posted by Flea77
My complaint for you is that you basically stole their services and expertise on choosing a bike, in my opinion that is. Allan

Hi Allan,

Steeling is taking something with out the permission of the owner. He stole nothing.

If the bike shop valued the service (and I consider it a service) of advice and expertise, they should charge for it. If they are loosing money hand over foot because of internet prices, they should take action: complain to suppliers, manufacturers, etc.

Basically, the advice, the time is added value to the purchaser. If that added value doesn't reach a point to convince him to purchase there, then the bike store would need to revaluate their cost, thier service, or something to make it such the buyer want's to buy.

Trek bike store sold my tires for 33. Online the tires cost 25. I found them at Preformance (formally Bike USA) for 19.99. Did I rip off Trek Bike shop when I went in to ask about tires and prices? Did I rip off the online place when I browsed their tire section and read the FAQ?

No.

I understand your point on supporting the small buisness. I'm anti starbucks to an extent. But at somepoint, there will be a break over for all of us to where we purchase based on price, not service.

Hey William,

I understand your point, and I did say that even I would buy online if the prices were so different, and the service rendered so small, that I didnt feel personally obligated to purchase at the LBS. (Like my jerseys where the LBSs contribution was "that looks cool on you")

One example is that I am replacing some Sora calipers with Ultegra ones next weekend. Performance has them for $89.99 and the LBS wants $129.99. The difference is that the LBS will install them and adjust them for life and to me, who knows squat about the new bike I just bought, that is VERY important. To someone who has been working on bikes for 10 years that would probably mean nothing. But I will pay $40 to know that anytime I dont like the way they work, I haul the bike to the LBS and they get fixed, free.

What I saw happening when I first replied, which the story has changed since then, was a person walks into a LBS knowing nothing about what bike he wants or needs, and having no intention at all to buy there, uses the LBS's knowledge and inventory to pick out the right bike, then takes that newfound freely obtained knowledge and buys online to save a few bucks. THAT is the story that made me a little upset. Since then it turned into a story where he had purchased many bikes from them before and spends lots of money there all the time. I am NOT infering that he lied or stretched the truth, just that he left so much out of the original post that the story seemed different.

The internet can offer prices so much cheaper because there is no store, and I am quite sure their warehouse rent is dirt because most of the online places are in BFE somewhere. Additionally some online stores are affiliates that purchase in such huge quantites that smaller outfits can not compete. Take for example Walmart, they buy everything in 10+ truckloads at a time, so heck yeah they get it cheaper than anyone else who wants to buy 5 items (.0000002 truckloads). And following that logic we would have no LBSs at all because the online stores would be cheaper. Who here wants all LBSs to go away?

And BTW, theft is when you take something without permission, I agree, but I didnt hear him say that the owner of the business said "sure, use my knowlege and let me pay people to help you while you go buy online". Permission has to be given, not assumed because it was not denied. Employees are paid to help customers because the owners assume that helping customers will lead to sales. Employers do not, in my experience, pay employees to give things (including information) away with no hope of any return on their investment.

Try this example, get a ratty old beat up car worth about $50, dress like a bum who has been on the street for years, drive to your nearest Ferrari dealer and ask to test drive the new $150,000 car in the window. Next, clean up, dress up in a nice suit and tie (rented is fine, nice stuff though not Sears brand), hop in a $60,000 Caddy and try the same thing. The first time you will get nothing because they dont think you can buy the car and will not waste their time and money on you. The second time you probably will get a ride because there is the assumption that you might be able to afford it. It's all about the sale.

Hope this clears my points up and remember, it's all just my opinions and I dont mean anything personal by any of it. I would have to meet you before I could hate you :-)

Allan

I think they are paying the employees to give out information in hopes of a return customer.

Originally posted by shokhead
I think they are paying the employees to give out information in hopes of a return customer.

I agree fully. This is why I return to certain stores. How good thier service is despite a lack of sale.

Heh, leave it to me to disagree :-)

I have never met a store owner who thought:

"Gee, lets give great service in hopes they may buy something next week"

It has always been:

"Lets give great service in hopes they will buy NOW! And hopefully next week too!"

If you have ever met any of the former, I would love to talk to them and understand their logic. Sure we all want repeat or return customers, but we also want them to buy right now. If we didnt want the immediate sale why do we have all the fancy displays, bold colors and sales?

Allan

I would say that's my two cents worth but I think we are over a buck and a quarter now :-)

Originally posted by Flea77

"Gee, lets give great service in hopes they may buy something next week"

It has always been:

"Lets give great service in hopes they will buy NOW! And hopefully next week too!"



6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of another. Pretty close to the same thing.

Most buisness are trying to build the long term customer.

I DO NOT want to like Preformance Bike Shops. I do not like that they bought a locally owned company (Bike USA San Diego). But I tell you what, I go in, I get good advice, there's a variety of product (I don't get forte' brand shoved down my throat), they try to discount anything I buy, liberal return policy, AND they don't act like snobs too much..

They are earning my return buisness. AND I might just buy my next bike from them.

At the risk of beating a dead horse...

I purchased 2 bikes from my LBS last year, a Specialized A1 Sport and a Specialized Hardrock Pro. Neither high end, neither junk...

I buy most of my accessories from the LBS when possible. Some things I buy on-line when the price difference is substantial, but it has got to be substantial. Why?

Well here's one reason. I was hit last Tuesday and my rear wheel was trashed. I was scheduled to ride in a charity ride Sunday. The LBS did not have new wheels in stock, but said they would order them right away. In the mean time they put on a temporary replacement wheel (Rolf) for me to use on the charity ride. Cost for the temporary and labor to install and set-it up? Nada. Zero. Zip. It's worth a few extra bucks to build that kind of repoire with the LBS...which I have been doing ever since I bought my first bike. The guys know me and I know them. Good feeling when you walk into a store and have people who know you. Can't find that on-line.

My 3 3/4 cents...

Greg

Originally posted by LegalIce
The guys know me and I know them. Good feeling when you walk into a store and have people who know you. Can't find that on-line.

My 3 3/4 cents...

Greg


Good points.


BUT... it's not buying online persay I have issues with - I just bought a cycling heart rate boiok from Amazon this very second - it's USING all the facilities and time of a local shop with no intention of buying the goods there.

6 of one, 1/2 a dozen of another. Pretty close to the same thing.

Actually no it isnt. The immediate sale offsets the immediate cost of helping you (payroll, electricity, rent, etc) while the long term is just a bonus. If anything, the long term is what offsets helping people with no intention to buy :-)

For example, if the business had to continually help people with absolutely no sales, but promises of sales a year later, they would never get to the "year later" because they couldnt pay their rent and payroll now with no income.


Most buisness are trying to build the long term customer.

Absolutely! Because 90% of return customer sales do not require the investment in time (aka money) to make the sale as the initial sale does. This is why I was initally upset with your comments because from what you said it sounded like this was your initial encounter with them and that is what they spend the most money on.


They are earning my return buisness. AND I might just buy my next bike from them.

Glad to hear it! Hope they do well for you and I hope you continue to support your LBS!

Allan

Belfast,

Are you really in Belfast? Hows the riding over there? Do you realize you are just as annoying as I am? :-) (ok, maybe I am a little more annoying, heh)

Allan

Originally posted by Flea77
Belfast,

Are you really in Belfast? Hows the riding over there? Do you realize you are just as annoying as I am? :-) (ok, maybe I am a little more annoying, heh)

Allan



Moi, annoying?

(I get that a lot.... I speak my mind, and don't care if I'm in the minority, which I often am, especially in political discussions.)

Yup, I'm in Belfast... I do most of my riding (only had the bike a week or so) along to local river path.... I'll get some pics up of it on Saturday, weather permitting.

Just fitness riding and to and from gym at the mo apart from the river path.

I've done some nice longer roads, but those were on my OTHER two wheeled vehicle....it's more....motorised.... :)