Living Car Free - Car free ...

I was car free for almost 6 years of my life. From the age of 17 when I first moved out till 23 when I finally decided to get a drivers license and a car. Of course now that I have my car I would never live without it. I still do bike but now it is 100% for fun, exercise, etc.

I have been told by numerous people, that I was crazy by numerous people, or that they were amazed that I could do so. It is kind of nice to see other people who embrace the same idea.

I am kind of disappointed that there are people standing in the side lines who seem to a) not understand this life style and b) decide to argue this point. I can personally say that in today's world, YES it is 100% totally possible to live without a car. Is it the safest method? Not always, but this is dependent upon numerous conditions. Is it the smartest decision. Smart is usually in the eye of the beholder and the eye of the peers. What one person thinks is stupid another person may think is ingenius whilst for another person it is the only way.

Everybody's life style is different. Everybody's reasons for doing things are different. People need to learn to respect these differences and understand that just because one person is capable of doing, does not necessarily mean everybody should or that it can apply to all situations. In other words, some people just need to grow up :mad:

this was one of the few places on the internet where we don't have to explain or justify ourselves to people like I-like-to-bike, who is a great BF member, but clearly anti-carfree.
Thanks for the compliment, but I am not anti-carfee anymore than I am against cyclists who believe in certain schemes for faring best on their bicycles.

I am against proseltyizing any specific scheme of cycling as making the practioner any more moral, better faring, or more serious than other cyclists. Otr that the preferred scheme is somehow the only true and correct method of cycling, or of enjoying cycling.

I'll add that I don't intend to critique the car free thread, nor will I hold my breath waiting to read success stories of families maintaining a middle class lifestyle after replacing ALL motorized transport with bicycles.

I would post about how my wife, daughter, and I are enjoying our car-free middle-class existance quite a lot, but we never had a car, so I guess we don't fit into your definition of replacing the car with something else. (Also, my daughter is only 2 & 1/2, and so thus a toddler, but she is in school, which is right across the street from us. Even if we had a car, I doubt we would use it to get her there. We also live right outside a subway stop, so alternate forms of transportation are easy to come by. I don't expect us to get a car anytime soon.) I like to think that the money we save by not owning a car raises our standard of living at least a little.

Tell you what, if we're both still here in 15 years, I'll post my success story, and you can, uh, stop not holding your breath. ;)

Personally I don't find fond reminiscing of simpler childhood times back in the old neighborhood long ago as a convincing argument

I've met BenyBen and given his age, his chilhood didn't happen that long ago.

I presume they stay economically disadvantaged and don't go anywhere beyond the limits of public transportation if it even exists in their vicinity; which I doubt that most of them consider getting along fine.

I grew up poor. While we always had a home, we sometimes wondered where the next meal would come from, and I remember my mother being "not hungry" a few times at the dinner table. We were not, by far, as badly off as the really poor, but eating out or buying new clothes was a special treat.

I (mostly) grew up without a car, and never missed it. If anything it taugh me to be reasonable and responsible, as well as being independent. By grade 7 I knew the bus system better than my mother did, and with a monthly bus pass I had unlimited travel. Planning any acivity already involved thinking through if I could afford it, and if I could get there. Yes, I did miss out on a lot - mostly due to lack of money, not "lack" or a car. The lessons I learned, however, were well worth it. At 33 people look at our home and wonder how we live "so well" on a lower middle-class household income. Simple: we don't waste, we don't buy things we can't afford, and we don't have a car.

We won't have kids - that decision was made long ago - but if we did I would want them to learn the same lessons.

Why do you insist on the whole better moral thing? I do it because I chose to live so, but I'm also aware that others cannot do it, and they are not evil for driving a car.

And why do you insist on replacing ALL motorized vehicles with bicycles? Car free doesn't mean never taking public tansit, or never borrowing/renting a car.

This middle class lifestyle: Are you merely basing this on the american dream? For sure not onwing a car will mean live differently. Doesn't mean your life is any worse. Does excluding car automaticaly nullify your middle class lifestyle definition?

As for transporting a kid around, I see parrents in bus/metro with their kids all the time

Hm this is a tricky one, because subconsciously "middle-class lifestyle" may mean "owns one or more cars", just like the advertisers want us to think.

But not paying for a money pit like a car can make one much MORE likely to live a nice "middle class" lifestyle since the money saved can go into buying a house, a college fund, etc.

Why do you insist on the whole better moral thing? I do it because I chose to live so, but I'm also aware that others cannot do it, and they are not evil for driving a car.

I don't know who that was addressed to, but since I am asking the question often enough I'll answer anyway. To me it is a moral choice. Driving a car contributes to hundreds of smog-related death in Ontario every year, is using up a non-renewable resource, and ties up a lot of materials for the exclusive use of one (or a few) people.


And why do you insist on replacing ALL motorized vehicles with bicycles? Car free doesn't mean never taking public tansit, or never borrowing/renting a car.

I agree with that. To me being "car free" means not owning a motor vehicle for personal use and that's it.

I'm OK with renting once in a while, or taking a cab once in a while, taking the bus or train, etc., and not owning a car. Doing things by bike if possible because the bike costs the least, and is good exercise and is often quicker than a car and you don't have to wait around like for a bus etc.

If less people owned cars, and were open to using other things, the passenger rail system in the US would be rejuvenated, the bus systems would at least be more rational, etc. Sure some car companies would go out of business but surprise, they're doing that anyway.

I would like to read the comments of ANY car free bicyclists who have voluntarily imposed their lifestyle decision on schoolage children or dependent adults;


I am amused by the terminology used in this sentence. Are car free bicyclists who have voluntarily "imposed" their lifestyle decision on schoolage children any worse than those that "impose" a car dependent lifestyle? Parent's impose many things on their children. My parent's "imposed" carrots on me at dinnertime, and "imposed" grounding when I stayed out beyond curfew. These impositions were to help me learn good habits and responsibility, even though I did not like or really understand them at the time. Perhaps some parents view "imposing" a car free lifestyle on their kids as helping them to learn independence. I know some may have difficulty understanding this because I was surprised myself, but not owning a car has given me more freedom than when I used to drive everywhere. To me, the real tragedy is how we have largely imposed car dependency on our society and view those that can't or won't own automobiles as being second class citizenry.

Perhaps some parents view "imposing" a car free lifestyle on their kids as helping them to learn independence.
Perhaps so, but there appears to be a dearth of reports of any kind from any parents with children/dependents older than a toddler who have voluntarily chosen (if you like that terminology better) to replace the family automobile with bicycles for all family transportation purposes. Reports from such families are completely absent where reliable public transportation is not immediatly available at all hours as a backup when bicycle transport is not desirable or possible.

Why do you insist on the whole better moral thing?

Read the cited URL for a prototypical "moral thing" message:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1302041&postcount=4

Not everyone is as broad minded as you claim to be; far too many who want to directly associate bicycling with a car-free lifestyle appear to lack empathy for (or any awareness of ) the circumstances of those who don't share their unique choice in lifestyle priorities.

I assume that pompous moralizing about the virtues of those who choose to replace the only family automobile with a bicycle may help an individual justify his own choice, and may even be uplifting music for the true believer choir, but is not that helpful in convincing a public, that does not share the proselytizer's priorities, about the positive aspects of bicycling.

And most importantly, and to the point, the smug "stuff" about the moral virtue of bicyclists who live car-free certainly does NOTHING positive for bicycling advocacy or the bicycling public.

It would be best for bicycling advocacy if car-free lifestyle proseltyizing was kept at a great distance.

I would hope that those who wish to discuss how bicycling can help those who wish to be (or are forced to be) car-free can make the distinction.

Perhaps so, but there appears to be a dearth of reports of any kind from any parents with children/dependents older than a toddler who have voluntarily chosen (if you like that terminology better) to replace the family automobile with bicycles for all family transportation purposes. Reports from such families are completely absent where reliable public transportation is not immediatly available at all hours as a backup when bicycle transport is not desirable or possible.

Again, being car free doesn't necessarily relying on bikes only. I personally know car free families, who rely on public transit... Not all of the car free families who use bikes will come post here. I know I've read some on BF in the past. Yes, not many I'll grant it, because not many want to live this way (and not everybody can at the moment). And that is the reason you will not find a "dearth of reports"

You seem to be out here to prove something. If you live in an area where public transit is not immediatly available or bicycles is not a viable/desirable option, then use your car. Dismiss those who think they have better morales then you. You should know what is right for you, and not need to come after all those with "better morales".

Again, being car free doesn't necessarily relying on bikes only. I personally know car free families, who rely on public transit
No doubt that is true. Just what such car free living has to do with bicycle advocacy or safety is a good question.

No doubt that is true. Just what such car free living has to do with bicycle advocacy or safety is a good question.

I am merely having a discussion about being car free, wich is what this forums is about.

Just what you are trying to accomplish here eludes me. You do not sound like someone who is really trying to get information on how to live car free, but simply here to point out that you don't see any success stories (and discredit any success stories people posted).

Sure, you can point out those who say they have better morales then you, but answer this: Why does it matter to you?

I am merely having a discussion about being car free, wich is what this forums is about.

Just what you are trying to accomplish here eludes me. You do not sound like someone who is really trying to get information on how to live car free, but simply here to point out that you don't see any success stories (and discredit any success stories people posted).

Sure, you can point out those who say they have better morales then you, but answer this: Why does it matter to you?
Because pompous moralizing about the virtue of those who are "car free" is counterproductive/bicycling advocacy poison when associated in the public's mind with the goals of bicycling advocates.

No doubt that is true. Just what such car free living has to do with bicycle advocacy or safety is a good question.

I don't know if you would consider this responsive to your comment, but it seems to be that good bicycle advocacy and safety are prerequisites to making car free living possible for those who want it.

I have attended public meetings on transportation issues. It's disheartening to me to see tempers flaring when bike and pedestrian issues come up. Sometimes people speak with voices quavering with anger. When that happens all rational discussion of the issues goes out the window. So I think I understand at least part of what you said in another post, about pomposity and moralizing being poison to bike advocacy.

I don't know if you would consider this responsive to your comment, but it seems to be that good bicycle advocacy and safety are prerequisites to making car free living possible for those who want it.

I have attended public meetings on transportation issues. It's disheartening to me to see tempers flaring when bike and pedestrian issues come up. Sometimes people speak with voices quavering with anger. When that happens all rational discussion of the issues goes out the window. So I think I understand at least part of what you said in another post, about pomposity and moralizing being poison to bike advocacy.
Yes, your observation is quite responsive. The reciprocal is not true though and in fact, associating promotion of a goal of car free living as a reason for bicycling advocacy is sure way to end any consideration for improving bicycling conditions.

I had to get out on the wheel for a while to clear my head about this discussion!

Maybe "carfree" is a word that inherently provokes animosity. I've seen the term "utility cycling" used to refer to biking in order to partially or completely replace the driving of one or more motor vehicles. It includes commuting. The two terms don't refer to exactly the same thing, but they are close. I'll try to start using that phrase instead of "carfree" when it makes sense.

Wikipedia article on Utility Cycling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_cycling)

Maybe I missed it in this thread or section, but are there any carfree/carlite/utility cyclists in the Los Angeles, Ca area? Your experiences would be greatly appreciated.
Thx, Thom.

I've seen the term "utility cycling" used to refer to biking in order to partially or completely replace the driving of one or more motor vehicles.

I have never seen that term before, but I think it describes exactly what I'm aiming to do. Thanks for making me aware of it!

I had to get out on the wheel for a while to clear my head about this discussion!

Maybe "carfree" is a word that inherently provokes animosity. I've seen the term "utility cycling" used to refer to biking in order to partially or completely replace the driving of one or more motor vehicles. It includes commuting. The two terms don't refer to exactly the same thing, but they are close. I'll try to start using that phrase instead of "carfree" when it makes sense.

Wikipedia article on Utility Cycling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_cycling)

Nah... it's "pedestrian". ;)

Koffee

I've got 3 kids, a wife and 2, 10 year old cars. I commute 25 miles a day r/t about 4 times a week. I still sometimes need a car at work if I have to take a router or UPS to a remote site. I sometimes load up an old burley trailer to get groceries.

I live in the city, so I can use the car less than suburbanites or the rural dwellers. I look forward to the day that cities are so bike friendly that the newbies’ first concern is not one of safety. I also hope that more will be able to telecommute as a solution for commuting by car, bus or train.

My last job was 95 percent work from home and that rocked.

I've got 3 kids, a wife and 2, 10 year old cars. I commute 25 miles a day r/t about 4 times a week. I still sometimes need a car at work if I have to take a router or UPS to a remote site. I sometimes load up an old burley trailer to get groceries.
Sounds familiar. I've got a wife, 3 kids and a 10 year old car as well as a 2 year old car. And I use a bike trailer for hauling groceries. http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=1292435&postcount=6
The new car is for my wife who is not going to bike commute/shop anywhere around here though she did in Germany which is an altogether different (and better) environment for bicycling. The old car I use to get to work if I need to get somewhere during the workday for personal reasons, usually Dr/Dentist appointments. I could take my wife's car but why should I, the old one is cheap and paid for (in fact the insurance company totaled it out for hail damage two years ago and let me keep it - such a deal!)

When my 25 year old daughter (who is currently car free and a bicycle commuter in Chicago) visits she uses the old car to visit friends in Iowa City 75 miles away. Otherwise the old car sits in the driveway year round as I also bicycle to work every day year round 24 miles R/T unless ice is on the road (about 10 times a year).

My 22 year old twins have never gotten a drivers license. Neither needed them in Germany in high school, nor in college in the US. I deliver them to/from college (50 and 700 miles away) with all their stuff by car. I can't figure out any practical way to do that by car free/bicycle means.

*SNIP*
My 22 year old twins have never gotten a drivers license. Neither needed them in Germany in high school, nor in college in the US. I deliver them to/from college (50 and 700 miles away) with all their stuff by car. I can't figure out any practical way to do that by car free/bicycle means.

C'mon... like there's not a Burley trailer that won't do the trick? Who do you think you're fooling?

;)

Koffee

Car free for about a year and a half. The only time it sucks is when I have to do laundry or go to the grocery. Money is REALLY tight right now and I can't find a decent trailer I can afford, so I usually catch a ride with a friend who is going shopping or washing clothes. I also have a few friends within walking distance with washer/dryer. I hate mooching though, but oh well.

I also have two cats which when one required a quick trip to the vet, made me think about what would have happened had my car-enabled friend hadn't answered the phone so quickly. I could only imagine having kids and an emergency arising... Ambulances are EXPENSIVE. Good thing I won't be breeding. :)

Nolageek - I was at the local (large, chain in this area) hardware store and they sell these wheelbarrow-ish things, with two wheels, that are made for hauling stuff around in your yard but two things: They're LIGHT and theyre CHEAP. Like $30-$40 it's amazing. They have two BMX bike type wheels on them, it should be possible to rig one of those up as a bike trailer. Not the classiest, not a Burley, but not bad at all for the price.

Car free for about a year and a half. The only time it sucks is when I have to do laundry or go to the grocery. Money is REALLY tight right now and I can't find a decent trailer I can afford, so I usually catch a ride with a friend who is going shopping or washing clothes.

Here's a write-up of a trailer made from 7 sticks, some wire, old bike wheels, and just a few other bits: http://carryfreedom.com/files_content/Downloads_content/Bamboo_VV.pdf . Looks remarkably capable, considering, and you'd get major hobo genius points for showing up at the laundromat with it. I might try my hand at this with the pile of bamboo poles in the yard...

When I was a kid, we went most of my childhood w/o a reliable car, and there was a period where there was no car at all for 4 years. Public transportation in that city was a joke. We walked everywhere, including to the grocery store, to the laundromat (Red Flyer wagons come in handy). We used bikes to go to the store sometimes, but not often. Biking was much more of a recreational activity back then, but it would have been cool to have had things like bike trailers and would have made life easier. My mother was in college during that time, and worked on campus and we lived less than a mile away. School buses probably constituted 99% of my vehicle riding during that period of time.

We were very poor and it really only became an issue later on in my high school years when there were after school activities I couldn't participate in because I didn't have a ride home. I had to walk home once..it was only about 5 miles, I could have easily done it on a bike if I'd had one. The funny thing is, I knew lots of people back then who also didn't have cars or at least not reliable cars and they seemed to manage just fine. I guess it's a matter of perspective...if you're trying to emulate the upper middle class/soccer mom lifestyle being carless really sucks, but if you arrange your life (either because you have to or because of conscious decisions) you can manage just fine.

I didn't get my driver's license til I was 21 and got a good paying job that was too far to walk to. I'm not carless now, but I'm trying to arrange my living situation so it's more feasible, even though my current job is 20 miles away. Currently I've been doing a one-way commute..taking the bus in the morning and biking home. Even so, in my life I've tended to walk to do errands a lot more than most people and I've had enough practice carrying groceries home that I never drive to the nearest grocery store because parking is more of a hassle than it's worth. My car is used almost primarily for driving to and from work and the occasional shopping trip. If I could eliminate that from my life I really wouldn't need it.

One thing that's been bothering me is that I make a decent income (not spectacular, but definitely enough to live on) and I'm constantly struggling financially and guess what my biggest expense is? The car. I live in a city with decent public transportation and being carless is quite feasible here so I'm working on making it more of a reality for me because it would a) save me a lot of money b) keep me in shape and c) be in line with my personal philosophy of reducing the impact I personally have on the environment.