Living Car Free - Car free ...

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Stor Mand
04-24-03, 10:24 AM
I now many here are car-free. I was wondering how many here are car-free and have children? If so, how do you make it work, assuming you live in a climate where the temperature can swing 50 degrees a day, rain and snow, etc.?
Kids makes it really hard, I drive my son to school in the morning and pick him up after school. I use my lunch hour to run him down to my ex-wife who does not drive. If it was not for that I would be commuting by bike to work
Stor Mand
04-24-03, 03:35 PM
So, does this mean that there are no people here that are car-free and have children :confused: ? Honestly, I didn't think it was possible the way things are now but I was curious. My guess is that most anyone that is car-free is single (no-kids in the house) or married (no kids in the house and/or spouse probably has a vehicle).
I am single, kid-free, and car-free, Stor Mand!
Whopeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;)
Koffee
Dv8shawn
04-24-03, 06:37 PM
I don't know any personally, but there have heard of some in various car free threads on different forums.
I think a lot of it depends on the age of the children, the area you live in, and just the willingness to do it. There really aren't many reasons not to, just excuses.
Dirtgrinder
04-24-03, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by Dv8shawn
There really aren't many reasons not to, just excuses.
Try getting one to day-care and one to school by 8:00. Then pick them both up, come home, eat a quick supper, and get to a soccer game by 6:15. If that's not a reason I don't know what is. Then there is ice-skating, gymnastics, girl scouts, etc. It's not an excuse, it's an impossibility.
MediaCreations
04-24-03, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Dirtgrinder
Try getting one to day-care and one to school by 8:00. Then pick them both up, come home, eat a quick supper, and get to a soccer game by 6:15. If that's not a reason I don't know what is. Then there is ice-skating, gymnastics, girl scouts, etc. It's not an excuse, it's an impossibility. There is an argument that goes that we should shed all those activities that fill our lives.
Some say that we should reduce our committments so that simpler living, such as car free living, is attainable. While I agree that we should simplify our lives to a large degree, I also believe that we live in the real world.
I'd love to go completely car free but it really isn't practical in so many cases. We are a one car family when most around us have at least two cars.
I think we need to use cars to enhance our lives - rather than letting cars rule our lives.
Dirtgrinder is absolutley right - in our current culture - we must, unfortunatley, rely on cars.
Chris L
04-24-03, 09:59 PM
Originally posted by MediaCreations
Dirtgrinder is absolutley right - in our current culture - we must, unfortunatley, rely on cars.
... And you didn't read my sig? :D
In all seriousness, the main reason that I'm carfree is simply because I've never had any real reason to get one. I don't have kids (although if I did I'd be encouraging them to walk to school so they can at least get some physical activity), I don't have snow (although we had a dust storm which I believe was far worse, snow doesn't burn your lungs!).
However, I've never really tried to force anybody else to be carfree. If they want to pay the $ to acquire and maintain one, and all the time it takes out of their lives, so be it. It's their problem, not mine. I don't tolerate people telling me I should live a certain way, nor do I do it to anyone else.
MediaCreations
04-24-03, 10:08 PM
I probably should have qualified that last statement.
"Dirtgrinder is absolutley right - in our current culture - if we have kids and don't have a school within walking distance - and we need to get them to lots of different after school activites - and like me have to turn up to events on the other side of town lugging huge amounts of stuff while dressed in a shirt and tie - we must, unfortunatley, rely on cars sometimes - but only when we absolutely have to.:D
nathank
04-25-03, 02:21 AM
well, i personally am car-free... but i also have no kids (yet).
BUT, here in Munich i have at least 2 good friends who have kids and are car-free. jees, i know one affluent parent who doesn't have a driver's license and doesn't want one! now granted in munich that is MUCH easier as distances are shorter, the subway is great, there are bike paths everywhere, auto drivers are trained to watch for cyclists, and it is safe for kids to bike and the train is cheaper than the car for trips out of town... ah, Munich is so cool!
now in the US... it is harder. and especially since a car is almost madatory for family trips... i think a limited-use one-car family is probably pretty close to "car-free" ---- i.e. both parents use the bike for primary transportation and the car is there if there is an emergency or for an out-of-town trip...
nathank
04-25-03, 02:32 AM
I'd love to go completely car free but it really isn't practical in so many cases. We are a one car family when most around us have at least two cars.
I think we need to use cars to enhance our lives - rather than letting cars rule our lives..
i think i agree with that. i'm not anti-car as in i never want to own one. i was "car-limited" or whatever my last 4 years in the US meaning i biked to work and for 95% of my in-city stuff (ALL shopping unless it was too big to fit in the trailer) --- but i had a vehicle for out-of-town trips since the US train system is for the most part pretty lacking...
i had/have a number of friends in Portland with kids who are 1-car famlies where at least one partner bikes to work (in one couple the guy bikes to work, the wife walks to work) and the car is for taking the kid to the doctor at 3am when it's raining or for a family vacation. but their car was broken for 3 weeks one time and it didn't disrupt their lives...
but i think if i were in the US and had a family i would probably have one car (station wagon like a Subaru or a hatchback like a Golf) that we would have for emergency use and for out-of-town, but i have to NEVER again HAVE to drive, but having the choice to driver is ok.
but like the families, where when one of their 2 or 3 cars breaks down the family can't function any more (dad can't get to work and Johnny can't get to soccer practice)---- that's a problem i never want to have!!
also, i HOPE to make choices so that my kids won't be forced to be dependent on me and others to drive them around, but that they will have opportunities to walk or bike themselves - of course, this depends on where you live, so "traditional subdivisions" are pretty much out...
tfahrner
06-20-05, 11:13 AM
Car-free always, 2 cats, 1 dog, 1 toddler son, and wouldn't have it any other way. My wife has never even had a driver's license. We've lived in 4 major US cities. We're 39, and the cumulative savings have helped us pay off the house. We don't take transit more than a couple times a year, either. Have had up to 12 bikes in service at a time; these days the Xtracycle and the Brompton folder see the most use.
Putting an electric assist motor on the Xtracycle has made car-free camping in steep country and other "car-like" trips with my son easy: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/
BenyBen
06-20-05, 11:26 AM
Car-free always, 2 cats, 1 dog, 1 toddler son, and wouldn't have it any other way. My wife has never even had a driver's license. We've lived in 4 major US cities. We're 39, and the cumulative savings have helped us pay off the house. We don't take transit more than a couple times a year, either. Have had up to 12 bikes in service at a time; these days the Xtracycle and the Brompton folder see the most use.
Putting an electric assist motor on the Xtracycle has made car-free camping in steep country and other "car-like" trips with my son easy: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/
Wow. That's really awesome. Thanks for posting those pictures.
I was raised car-free. It can be done, but it requires public transportation and a city.
It probably can't be done in the outermost suburbs.
That is totally awesome! I love that bike. I wouldn't mind having a setup like that.
Koffee
SecretSatellite
06-20-05, 05:15 PM
i've met so many families recently that live a simple lifestyle and are car free. its totally possible. has anyone asked themselves what economically disadvantaged families do without cars? they get along fine raising kids. though not intentionally car free they prove that if there is a will there is a way.
SecretSatellite
06-20-05, 05:20 PM
Try getting one to day-care and one to school by 8:00. Then pick them both up, come home, eat a quick supper, and get to a soccer game by 6:15. If that's not a reason I don't know what is. Then there is ice-skating, gymnastics, girl scouts, etc. It's not an excuse, it's an impossibility.
who says that your kids have to be involved in such things so far away. its entirely possible to live in a neighborhood that has all these things within walking distance.
i also wanted to say that one of the reasons i wanted this car free forum is to get away from the arguments that came up whenever car free living was discussed. i'm not a moderator but i'd appreciate it if nay sayers would stay off this board. this is supposed to be a place to discuss living car free and the attendant lifestyle, not a place where we have to defend ourselves all over again and drivers defend the reasons that they drive. living car free is possible. a car is a luxury, not a necessity.
javna_golina
06-20-05, 05:45 PM
In my awesome home town of Wellington, New Zealand, I grew up pretty much car free. Wellington's a really compact place. I don't know how suburbs are structured in america, but in Wellington the larger "suburbs" (some of these being less than 5km from the central business district) will have a small shopping district, supermarket, places to get food, electrical stores, grocers, in a few cases even a local library. Of course, town (local speak for the commercial district of a town or city) has more shops. I was living about 5km from town, but I could walk to the local hockey turf in 5 minutes one direction, and walk down to a shopping district in 5 minutes in the other direction. Never knew how good I had it...
lilHinault
06-21-05, 01:49 AM
My Mom was car-free, in the 70s! And she had 3 of us to watch out for, 4 before my brother got smart and took off. (Too little food around the place, easier to make it on his own once he hit about age 15-16.) We generally didn't have a car that ran, in fact I grew up with a real hatred of cars because we were usually even more in the poorhouse than usual because of some damn car that needed this, and needed that, and never ****ing ran.
It's amazing I've had cars as an adult, maybe at a deep level it's to prove I can. But I digress.
We wanted to go to this or that class? Bus. Friend's house? Walk. We walked and bused to stores, friends, school, activities, etc all on our own, it was figured that once a kid was 10 or so, they should not depend on Mommy to get places anyway. Sure, parental support was expected, and was there, if needed but it was just believed that a kid didn't need to be driven around to places they could get to independently, any more than they needed to be carted around in a baby carriage all the time after they could walk.
Much of this is the US "culture of fear" where everyone is afraid Jeffery Dahmer is going to take their kid. The auto/oil companies love it.
BenyBen
06-21-05, 07:08 AM
We were car free as well. My mom, and 3 kids. We bussed, walked and biked everywhere. I participated in boy scouts (later on cadets), baseball, summer camps, etc etc... We simply chose things that were not all the way accross town.
We carried our groceries back on foot, or through public transit (of course we all helped for that).
I loved my childhood.
PurpleK
06-21-05, 08:13 AM
While there are some that live car-free due to economics, for many it is a choice. When making a choice, one has to look at the benefits and consequences of each option. Living car-free has its rewards, but it also has its costs. One can not pursue car-free living if maintaining a car-needed lifestyle. It is not simply a matter of tossing away the car keys and merely substituting the bike for the car. Living car-free requires lifestyle adjustments. The key is how much of a lifestyle adjustment is one willing to make. If one chooses to be involved in numerous activities that require covering long distances and tight schedules, then car-free is probably not for them. If one chooses to concentrate more on neighborhood or home oriented activities, then maybe car-free would work. If one wants to live in the big yard, suburban home zoned long distances away from work or shopping destinations, living car-free would be much more difficult. If one chooses to live in a denser neighborhood closer to town, shopping, or public transit, again car-free may be a viable option. For some, perhaps most, the adjustments of living car-free are not worth the benefits. For others, living car-free is a sense of new-found freedom. Like some others on here, I do not have much tolerance for excuses disguised as reasons why one can not live car free, such as taking kids to after school activities, etc. They are lifestyle choices that largely inhibit living car-free. But they are lifestyle choices just as valid as those that choose other lifestyles more conducive to living without automobile ownership. It is a matter of choice, and one choice is no more legitimate than the other.
Sometimes I think there is a misperception between being car-free and car dependent. To me, living car free does not mean being independent of cars, only of car ownership. The vast majority of my monthly routine is easily accomplished without a car, so the expense of purchase and maintenance of a car is not worth it. However, I have access to a car on the odd occasion when I need one. I figure I have the best of both worlds, and I wouldn't change a thing.
I am personally not so concerned with people living car-free as with living less car dependent. I know many, many people who routinely ride bikes 50-100 miles for training purposes. However, they hop into the SUV to drive two miles to pick up a video or buy some stamps, tasks easily accomplished by bike and probably just as quick in the urban environment where they live.
We are so quick to "blame" individuals for continuing to use cars, when often the real blame should go to the city planners and local administrators. Unfortunately, successful carfree living sometimes requires that you get off your duff and lobby for change in programs and the infrastructure. Sometimes small, inexpensive changes can make a big difference. For example, if you can't give up the cage because you always have to schlepp your offspring, here are some local changes that might help:
For kids in school, you should insist that your school system provide amenities that make it feasible for your children to walk or ride bikes to school. This would include adult crossing guards, student safety patrols, parent patrols, teachers outside the school watching kids, Neighborhood Watch, child-centered traffic control around schools, safety classes, etc. Young children can walk with older siblings or neighbors. Also find or help set up neighborhood after-school activity programs which should be centered around neighborhood schools, parks and churches.
With local programs in place, there is little need to ferry the kids. If you can get some of these in place, every parent in the neighborhood will thank you.
I have access to a car when I need one. I belong to a car sharing network, and I know I may need it from time to time. I've used it once, but that was about it.
I do know that even if I use the car, I'll have to have my folding bike too, since I'll have to ride my bike to get to the nearest car and ride my bike to get back home once I've dropped the car off.
I don't think anyone here means car free means being totally free of a car, living in the woods, eating nuts and berries, etc. We're just talking about not being dependent on having a car.
Koffee
tfahrner
06-21-05, 01:40 PM
I do know that even if I use the car, I'll have to have my folding bike too, since I'll have to ride my bike to get to the nearest car and ride my bike to get back home once I've dropped the car off.
Same here, koffee. In fact, just Saturday I took out a shared car (second time since December, Flexcar) just like that, and I nearly choked on my own smugness at how powerfully clever a combination it is. I came home and googled "folding bike car sharing" and the first hit is on a folding bike giveaway by Flexcar in LA. Now that's smart marketing, I thought.
drivers
06-21-05, 05:52 PM
I have access to a car when I need one. I belong to a car sharing network, and I know I may need it from time to time. I've used it once, but that was about it.
I do know that even if I use the car, I'll have to have my folding bike too, since I'll have to ride my bike to get to the nearest car and ride my bike to get back home once I've dropped the car off.
I don't think anyone here means car free means being totally free of a car, living in the woods, eating nuts and berries, etc. We're just talking about not being dependent on having a car.
Koffee
I've been car-free for one month today since my car was totalled and I decided to not replace it. I went on an organized ride last weekend and used a Flexcar for the first time. I rode my bike down to where the car was and took off the wheels (quick release of course) and put them in the floor of the back seat and then put the frame in the trunk. Then I was able to take a regular road bike to the event. The car was a tiny honda civic so I had to turn the handlebars just right to get it in. Incidentally, this weekend for the first time I used a Burley trailer to get groceries, which I hooked up my old mass market "mountain" bike which I call my "SUV". (It doesn't fit on my road bike due to the shape of the chainstays.)
Flexcar is wonderful. I nearly giggled as I got approved for their car sharing network. I mean- my brother had to give me a verbal lesson before I went out to drive. But since I never had a ticket or a bad driving record, I was considered a desireable driver. And I love that it has full insurance on it. I never have to worry about what might happen to the car again.
Just in case others need to know, it's www.flexcar.com.
Oh, and if you decide to sign up, pm me. I get referral points! :)
Koffee
I see they only have Flexcar in civilized areas, not here in the wilds of Michigan. I heard you can rent a pickup truck from U-Haul much cheaper than renting a car, but I have not tried it.
Flexcar is looking to expand, and aggressively. You should check with them about getting cars in your area. And once you get one location in, they just keep popping up all over the place.
Koffee
For me, "carfree" means "Car Free". No car. I hate cars like the Big Bopper should have hated planes. Any distance is biking distance.
For me, "carfree" means "Car Free". No car. I hate cars like the Big Bopper should have hated planes. Any distance is biking distance.I very much admire your purity, but in many locations it really is hard to be totally car free due to the infrastructure and design of the city. My role model here is the Amish. They never own cars, but in certain circumstrances they will pay a neighbor for a ride. We have had Amish patients in my hospital, and their families came in cars to visit them. When my own sons were both in the hospital, I had no qualms about getting rides with friends and neighbors, although I usually rode my bike to the hospital. When friends are going to a store, they will invite me and I often accept. Tomorrow my friend will pick me up at the Greyhound bus station so I don't have to lug a heavy suitcase home on the city bus.
For me, car free living is a chosen lifestyle, not a moral imperative.
For me, "carfree" means "Car Free". No car. I hate cars like the Big Bopper should have hated planes. Any distance is biking distance.
Well, how did you get to Germany, man? ;)
Koffee
recursive
06-22-05, 09:43 PM
Well, how did you get to Germany, man? ;)
Koffee
I dont' know, but I doubt it was in a car. :p
karmical
06-23-05, 10:42 AM
Flexcar is wonderful. I nearly giggled as I got approved for their car sharing network. I mean- my brother had to give me a verbal lesson before I went out to drive. But since I never had a ticket or a bad driving record, I was considered a desireable driver. And I love that it has full insurance on it. I never have to worry about what might happen to the car again.
Just in case others need to know, it's www.flexcar.com.
Oh, and if you decide to sign up, pm me. I get referral points! :)
Koffee
maybe this would make a good sticky....there are many cities that have these type programs....we just signed up for this one out here in the bay area.. but have yet to use it yet.....
http://www.citycarshare.org/
oh yeah....car free for some time now, but we do like to get away every now and then and have rented cars to take trips in.....and for moving and stuff we have to pick up that is too heavy to strap to your back and ride with..
Flexcar is wonderful. I nearly giggled as I got approved for their car sharing network. I mean- my brother had to give me a verbal lesson before I went out to drive. But since I never had a ticket or a bad driving record, I was considered a desireable driver. And I love that it has full insurance on it. I never have to worry about what might happen to the car again.
Just in case others need to know, it's www.flexcar.com.
Oh, and if you decide to sign up, pm me. I get referral points! :)
Koffee
A personal Flexcar membership costs only $40 a year. Rates are $7-$10 per hour and $35 - $90 per day. These rates include full insurance, gas, maintenance, cleaning, parking and 24-hour emergency service.
Other than having hourly rates and a yearly membership requirement, how is this different from an ordinary car rental like Hertz?
tfahrner
06-23-05, 11:19 AM
Other than having hourly rates and a yearly membership requirement, how is this different from an ordinary car rental like Hertz?
Here in SE Portland, there are about 5 pickup locations within a 5 minute ride, reservations take only a minute online - no paperwork - and the choice of vehicles is broad, with no extra charges for hybrids, vans, pickups, etc. The hourly rates are a big money saver over daily rentals. It does remain more economical to rent for multi-day use, at least in many cases.
Other than having hourly rates and a yearly membership requirement, how is this different from an ordinary car rental like Hertz?
Normally, car rental is per day. Then you add in insurance, gas, etc. Carsharing is geared for people who want short term car useage, not full day or multiple day useage. That's what makes it different from ordinary car rentals.
If I want a car for 2 hours so I can run out to Home Depot and get a few heavy things, I just jump online and go to the cars at the locations I live closest to, block out the time I want, then go get the car at my allotted time. Afterwards, I return the car to the same location and I'm good. I don't have to worry about gas and insurance every time I go get the car. There's very little hassle involved. And at the end of the month, I get my bill in the mail summarizing my useage and the amount they're going to charge my card. Plus... no security deposit to cover the car rental. Yay!
Koffee
carless
06-24-05, 10:42 PM
I now many here are car-free. I was wondering how many here are car-free and have children? If so, how do you make it work, assuming you live in a climate where the temperature can swing 50 degrees a day, rain and snow, etc.?
Just decide to do it, announce it, plan, and get rid of the car. I think your real question is... "if it rains, will I get wet?"
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 07:54 AM
has anyone asked themselves what economically disadvantaged families do without cars? they get along fine raising kids.
I presume they stay economically disadvantaged and don't go anywhere beyond the limits of public transportation if it even exists in their vicinity; which I doubt that most of them consider getting along fine.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 08:11 AM
Car-free always, 2 cats, 1 dog, 1 toddler son, and wouldn't have it any other way. My wife has never even had a driver's license. We've lived in 4 major US cities. We're 39, and the cumulative savings have helped us pay off the house. We don't take transit more than a couple times a year, either. Have had up to 12 bikes in service at a time; these days the Xtracycle and the Brompton folder see the most use.
Putting an electric assist motor on the Xtracycle has made car-free camping in steep country and other "car-like" trips with my son easy: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/
You may be considering another way when your son discovers that Mom and Dad are not the source of all knowledge, and Mom and Dad discover that school age son has new peer groups and may no longer consider them the center of his universe. The possibility of considering having it other ways may be even stronger if son gets a sibling; or in the unfortunate possibility that someone in the family, (or dependent on this family) develops a serious health problem.
Those are good points for discussion, I-Like-To-Bike:
(1) What are the economic advantages and disadvantages of not owning a car?
(2) What do children think of carfree parents?
(3) What are the resources available to carfree people who have health problems?
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 11:23 AM
Those are good points for discussion, I-Like-To-Bike:
(1) What are the economic advantages and disadvantages of not owning a car?
(2) What do children think of carfree parents?
(3) What are the resources available to carfree people who have health problems?
Related considerations for those interested are:
1 What negative lifestyle modifications have to made to accomodate the decision, regardless of economic advantage? A diet of macaroni and cheese or the social life of a monk may have economic advantages but there are other considerations for many people.
2. Are the best interests of the child(ren) or other family members taken into serious consideration when their school, travel and social activities are limited to those supportable by a voluntary car free decision of the parent(s).
None of these considerations are meant to disparage those who choose to live car-free. Just food for though for those who do not understand why "everybody" else doesn't think a bicycle can replace a motorized vehicle as the single source for meeting transportation needs for a family in large parts of the modern US environment.
Last comment on this thread: just as car-free people are free to live their lives to suit themselves without explaining themselves or their decisions to strangers, those bicyclists who do not choose the car-free lifestyle have no need to make any "excuses" or answer mocking questions from self-righteous car-hating bicyclists about personal lifestyle choices.
If the answer from an adult living in the US is "none", I suspect either a student on a college campus or a single person/childless couple who live in a city
tfahrner
06-27-05, 11:38 AM
You may be considering another way when your son discovers that Mom and Dad are not the source of all knowledge [snip]
This is the second time you have suggested that our car-free ways are fleeting, irresponsible, anomalous, or otherwise less than a viable model for other grown-ups. Would seeing our lives change and accepting car dependency assuage your own regrets or console you in some misfortune? Is it envy? Sour grapes? It's presumptuous in any case.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 12:11 PM
This is the second time you have suggested that our car-free ways are fleeting, irresponsible, anomalous, or otherwise less than a viable model for other grown-ups. Would seeing our lives change and accepting car dependency assuage your own regrets or console you in some misfortune? Is it envy? Sour grapes? It's presumptuous in any case.
No wouldn't bother me at all to read of such success stories; I would like to read the comments of ANY car free bicyclists who have voluntarily imposed their lifestyle decision on schoolage children or dependent adults; even more interesting might be the comments from those dependents. Just so happens I cannot recall any such success stories posted in BF or anywhere else. I am pointing out that there may be a good reason.
Fleeting? irresponsible, etc? I neither said nor suggested any such thing. Only that people with children and more specifically school age children or other dependents, may have transportation requirements far more difficult to satisfy by exclusive use of bicycles and occasional use of (if available) public transportation.
The presumptuousness tag is on those who bask in their sense of virtue about their unique lifestyle choices permitted by their own individual circumstances, and extrapolate their opinion on the subjectinto a moral imperative for all other bicylists to follow (or apologize for if not seeking), no matter what the circumstances.
Car free cyclists would be doing themselves soom good to share their useful tips with each other and leave out the claims of moral superiority over other cyclists who don't share their lifestyle priorities.
BenyBen
06-27-05, 12:41 PM
I lived my childhood carfree... And I never felt impeded by that situation. I went to all sorts of activities, most of them were in my neighborhood. We chose areas where things were accessible by walk, public transit and biking... If we needed to go farther, there was always greyhound.
BECAUSE we were car free, we chose places that were car free friendly. Had we lived in an area where a car was necessary, I would've felt impeded as a kid because I would've had to keep waiting for my mom to take me places. It's all about where we chose to live.
I'm not claiming moral superiority, nor am I asking you to apologize for your use of a car.
I wonder what your motives are to come here defending the car, when this is a car-free board. I believe this was created so that we could discuss the car-free lifestyle that we chose.
I think one reason us carfree folks are so enthusiastic about this new forum is that we are in an extreme minority. I hope people who are curious about our unusual lifestyle will look in and feel welcome to talk about it with us. But I think most of us already get plenty of well intentioned car advocacy from our real life family, friends and neighbors.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 01:27 PM
I wonder what your motives are to come here defending the car, when this is a car-free board. I believe this was created so that we could discuss the car-free lifestyle that we chose.
I don't recall defending the car; again I am curious if there are any success stories to be told about people who live in a typical middle class family environment and can maintain that lifestyle after replacing all motorized vehicles with bicycles. In case you forgot that was the question of the OP for this thread:
I now many here are car-free. I was wondering how many here are car-free and have children? If so, how do you make it work, assuming you live in a climate where the temperature can swing 50 degrees a day, rain and snow, etc.?
In a related context is there any advice to be given about achieving success at replacing ALL motorized personal transportation with bicycles more practical than "just do it" by downgrading your family's current living standards?
Erick L
06-27-05, 01:35 PM
I would like to read the comments of ANY car free bicyclists who have voluntarily imposed their lifestyle decision on schoolage children or dependent adults; even more interesting might be the comments from those dependents. Just so happens I cannot recall any such success stories posted in BF or anywhere else.
Have you read the thread? People did in fact post success stories, and from both sides.
Again, I was thinking that this forum was not intended to be an argument about the benefits and alleged disbenefits of carfree living. My impression is that the Car Free Living Forum was to be a forum for people who have already decided that they want to be carfree. I love these off topic arguments, but sould prefer if this was one of the few places on the internet where we don't have to explain or justify ourselves to people like I-like-to-bike, who is a great BF member, but clearly anti-carfree.
I-Like-To-Bike
06-27-05, 02:33 PM
Have you read the thread? People did in fact post success stories, and from both sides.
Yes, I have read this thread (and similar discussion elsewhere) and must have missed any reference to families with school age children having long term (or even short term) success in replacing ALL motor vehicles with bicycles, or any example/tips of how such families practically handle situations that involved transporting a non-bicyclist anywhere unless it was a toddler.
Personally I don't find fond reminiscing of simpler childhood times back in the old neighborhood long ago as a convincing argument (or source of useful tips) for the ease of conversion to car-free lifestyles for contemporary families.
I believe the relevance of bicycle only/car-free lifestyles for contemporary families is an issue that child free (or at least school age children free) people may choose to ignore or pooh-pooh, but few other mature adults will.
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