Foo - Oh crap.

So it's almost 12 midnight, and I'm driving me and a few buddies back from vallejo. Off 280 as we drive by we notice a car on it's side, the side rail completely destroyed, smoke coming from the car. No emergency personel there yet. We didn't have time to abruptly stop and see if the person was ok. We all know first aid, and we really wanted to help. So we decide to stop at a call box and call 911. We stop on a sliver of a shoulder and call. I hope the person is alright :(

People, please be careful when you drive.

Don't drive at night if you're tired.

I was going 85 and it was around a corner where there wasn't alot of shoulder and there were cars behind me. Not alot of time to instantly stop.

Next offramp and turn around???

Honestly Pheard...if it was almost midnight, this just happened. You say you really wanted to help...but you're here posting instead.

You'll know if you could have helped if they announce a sombody dead on the news tommorow.

Next offramp and turn around???

Honestly Pheard...if it was almost midnight, this just happened. You say you really wanted to help...but you're here posting instead.
Ok if people are going to get all on me, then I'll just pm a mod to lock the thread.

I made the thread, because it worried me.

Didn't happen exactly at 12. I just looked at my computer clock and said 12. It was easily a half an hour ago.

The police said emergency personel was coming. If you knew this stretch of highway. It easily would have taken me 15-20 minutes to get back on the freeway behind the accident, thus being only in the way of emergency personel. As is when I stopped at the call box, the person behind me almost rear ended me and honked. What would have happened if I had slammed my brakes around a curve where the accident happened?

Jon, sweetie, you done good. Reactions in different and new situations in life are all based on experience. You did what you did. So did all the people behind you. Next time, you may do something differently, or maybe not.

<shrug> Maybe that's kinda where I am, but there will be no future second chance for me. Once I can deal with the "woulda-shoulda-coulda," which, somehow cruelly, seems to be about self-forgiveness at this point, I'll probably find some healing.

Jon, sleep well. And don't worry about this. Many people face new situations that are hard to process quickly, and it's not alway easy to know what to do, or if you did the right thing, especially if you've not seen such things before. I so know this. But if you're thinking about this situation, then you have grown tonight. And regardless of what happened back there, you are now a better person because of it. And in a better position to do whatever is appropriate next time.

I know your gentle heart, and your youth. And your ever-growing life experience. You're still a great guy in my book. :)

I won't second guess your judgement. You were there and I was not. The SOB who beeped at you when you stopped to use the call box annoys me. He saw the same accident you did but he is more concerned about the tiny inconvenience you're causing him than the help these people need. Sometimes it seems every driver thinks he or she is the most important person on the road.

Jon, sweetie, you done good. Reactions in different and new situations in life are all based on experience. You did what you did. So did all the people behind you. Next time, you may do something differently, or maybe not.

<shrug> Maybe that's kinda where I am, but there will be no future second chance for me. Once I can deal with the "woulda-shoulda-coulda," which, somehow cruelly, seems to be about self-forgiveness at this point, I'll probably find some healing.

Jon, sleep well. And don't worry about this. Many people face new situations that are hard to process quickly, and it's not alway easy to know what to do, or if you did the right thing, especially if you've not seen such things before. I so know this. But if you're thinking about this situation, then you have grown tonight. And regardless of what happened back there, you are now a better person because of it. And in a better position to do whatever is appropriate next time.

I know your gentle heart, and your youth. And your ever-growing life experience. You're still a great guy in my book. :)
Guys, I'm not looking for a pat on the back, or a good job for calling 911. All I did was use a phone, I didn't save anyones life. It just freaked me out, and I wanted to share the experience that just happened to me.

If it hadn't been around a blind curve, I would have stopped. I know I would have. It was just in a terrible spot. I would have caused another accident if I'd abruptly stopped there.

In New York you MUST stop if you witness an accident or the result of one and no one is on the scene. It's called the Good Samaritan law I believe (too tired to look it up right now). It's also a good practice to keep a bunch of safety equipment in your trunk - some flairs are great to toss before a blind corner to let people know they should slow down.

Not getting up on you but as an FYI.

Guys, I'm not looking for a pat on the back, or a good job for calling 911. All I did was use a phone, I didn't save anyones life. It just freaked me out, and I wanted to share the experience that just happened to me.

If it hadn't been around a blind curve, I would have stopped. I know I would have. It was just in a terrible spot. I would have caused another accident if I'd abruptly stopped there.
Baby, that's what I just said, essentially. You did nothing "wrong," and you did what, in the moment, was appropriate as you saw it. And that's the way life works. Period.

Thanks for sharing it with us. It does put us all on notice that, at any given moment, it could be us in that car, or us calling for help....

That's all Vega's tryin' to say, at nearly 4am on the east coast. <sigh> Gotta be up early, too, to go to see the Clerk of Superior Court about some probate issues.... :rolleyes:

Look on the bright side, maybe sombody else stopped.

Look on the bright side, maybe sombody else stopped.
+1 and likely.

So many different people on the same road, so many different life experiences and gut instincts. Again, Jon, you did nothing wrong by doing what you felt was right. But next time, what will feel right to you will be to stop. Even if you have to run back to the scene. Next time, you might be the only one with the right life experience to stop.... You have grown tonight. :)

Look on the bright side, maybe sombody else stopped.
If anyone slammed their brakes going around that blind corner going freeway speeds, they may have been part of the accident.

So that really isn't the bright side.

Would you rather another guilt trip?

Maybe sombody went back who wasnt in a hurry, or ambulance got there as you called. This is all assuming sombody was actually hurt, it could have just been steam coming from the car.

EDIT: that came out a little harsher sounding then I intended...

Let's all let this ride 'til the morning so our friend can sleep. I'm sure Jon will update us on this.

I already checked, he isnt online anymore :p.

EDIT: that came out a little harsher sounding then I intended...
Nah no one's comments came out harsh, other than the person who passed judgement on me and basically implied I'd rather be on bf, than helping someone out.

Alrighty then.

When I re-read it it sounded like I was being a jerk, which is all to common. Consult this thread for proof http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=255397

Nah no one's comments came out harsh, other than the person who passed judgement on me and basically implied I'd rather be on bf, than helping someone out.
Jon, that was a first gut reaction of someone who'd have done something differently, and maybe didn't come out very well. Please don't take it personally. Brandy is a cool gal, and wouldn't intentionally try to cut you down. When she reads this tomorrow, sure, she'll still think perhaps that she would have stopped, based on her own life experience, but she won't be thinking badly of you. Trust Vega. And sleep well, my friend. I'm trying hard to do so myself.

Dont worry about it. Nothing you can change now. At least you did call 911. In future though mate never be afraid to stop and help someone :) You never know in those situations - sometimes seconds can really count if someone is pinned or trapped in a car. Pheard, you're OK to deal with this anyway you see fit. I wouldn't give it a second thought... it's unnerving at the time, but there was little you could do directly in the circumstances as you portray them, and you certainly did not create an environment for further mayhem and injury.

Have you had any accident first aid training? The course I did said only to ensure the airways are clear, the patient is breathing and has a pulse (and to try to rectify that if they don't), to try to stop prolific bleeding, and to move a victim from a vehicle if they are in further imminent danger (eg, fire). Lifting a vehicle off a person may not be a good move, as the action can actually kill them. And the most important action is to... call for assistance!

Only one piece of advice for you, though -- maybe moderate your speed -- 85mph on a curve in narrow circumstances may have led to that accident in the first place. Could you have stopped if a victim had made their way on to the roadway to seek help?

I know you lot in California drive fast -- the experience I had between Las Vegas to LA last year scared the living daylights out of me, and the big crash that delayed us for around two hours seemed almost inevitable after a silver BMW and a silver Mercedes Benz went past at around 100mph, weaving into and out of traffic in their own personal race.

Pheard, you're OK to deal with this anyway you see fit. I wouldn't give it a second thought... it's unnerving at the time, but there was little you could do directly in the circumstances as you portray them, and you certainly did not create an environment for further mayhem and injury.

Have you had any accident first aid training? The course I did said only to ensure the airways are clear, the patient is breathing and has a pulse (and to try to rectify that if they don't), to try to stop prolific bleeding, and to move a victim from a vehicle if they are in further imminent danger (eg, fire). Lifting a vehicle off a person may not be a good move, as the action can actually kill them. And the most important action is to... call for assistance!

Only one piece of advice for you, though -- maybe moderate your speed -- 85mph on a curve in narrow circumstances may have led to that accident in the first place. Could you have stopped if a victim had made their way on to the roadway to seek help?

I know you lot in California drive fast -- the experience I had between Las Vegas to LA last year scared the living daylights out of me, and the big crash that delayed us for around two hours seemed almost inevitable after a silver BMW and a silver Mercedes Benz went past at around 100mph, weaving into and out of traffic in their own personal race.
Most of my information in the OP was just alot of guessing. I don't have the exact time this happened, so I said almost 12 midnight. I had been going 85 on a previous straight stretch, but around this curve I would think I was going slower than that. I wasn't staring at the speed gauge.

The only training I have in first aid is the merit badge I got for my eagle. The only thing I'd have done was try to calm the person down and talk to them. Only if the car was going to explode or something would I have even tried to move them.

I apologize if I seem grouchy, because I am grouchy. This was an hour drive back after having done heavy lifting all day.

Most of my information in the OP was just alot of guessing. I don't have the exact time this happened, so I said almost 12 midnight. I had been going 85 on a previous straight stretch, but around this curve I would think I was going slower than that. I wasn't staring at the speed gauge.

The only training I have in first aid is the merit badge I got for my eagle. The only thing I'd have done was try to calm the person down and talk to them. Only if the car was going to explode or something would I have even tried to move them.

I apologize if I seem grouchy, because I am grouchy. This was an hour drive back after having done heavy lifting all day. It's all cool. The adrenalin rush that happens tends to make things go in a blur and the minor details get swept together. It's not pleasant, and you're always going to get people who "know" how to react in a similar situation (but may not have been put in the same position, so don't really know how they would react). I've just been told that the key element in a North American first aid training (Red Cross) course is: "Call an ambulance first", which you did. And the second key element is to ensure that *you* don't put yourself in danger; which you didn't. It follows similar content to the course I did.

Leave it at that.

Most of my information in the OP was just alot of guessing. I don't have the exact time this happened, so I said almost 12 midnight. I had been going 85 on a previous straight stretch, but around this curve I would think I was going slower than that. I wasn't staring at the speed gauge.

The only training I have in first aid is the merit badge I got for my eagle. The only thing I'd have done was try to calm the person down and talk to them. Only if the car was going to explode or something would I have even tried to move them.

I apologize if I seem grouchy, because I am grouchy. This was an hour drive back after having done heavy lifting all day.
Oh, Jon, if ever I had to guess who got the eagle, it'd be you. You are such a swell guy. And I really mean that. Your PM's have been insightful, mature, and very meaningful to my healing.

This time you did "this." Next time you'll do "that." And in any case, anyone involved will be the better for it, regardless of outcome, for your compassion. You're a real Mensch.

Get some sleep. Tomorrow night is the New Year's Foo Party (though there may be another on Sunday night at Siu's virtual place, if she still allows all of us to crash! <laughing>), and I fully expect you to be around helping Vega to keep things lively! :D

This thread is really sweet and everything about how you only wish you could have helped if there were
time? I don't understand that part about no time.
.."time to abruptly.." Abrubtly takes no time at all. Not the point, though.
"I was going 85 ..People, please be careful when you drive.
Don't drive at night if you're tired."

Why doesn't this make sense to me? I guess it's ok to not stop since everyone behind you is driving too fast to react to a car in front of them jamming on the brakes

This really smacks of you blaming other people for why you didn't stop. Sure, it may NOT have been safe and
True, more people could have been hurt if someone did try to stop at that instant
But I'm not down with listening to you speak of your groups first aid skills and desire to stop and save the uneducated and tired bastards day but just couldn't cause of everyone else's failure to drive safely behind you
I do not truly care if you stopped on a dangerously narrow speck of a shoulder to call for help.
Just say you called for help ..no need to make yourself sound brave to make up for not actually saving a persons life with your own bare hands.
There are no points awarded for doing anything

All I can say to you
Is you be careful driving
Perhaps don't drive 85 mph or whatever speed it actually was
You believe that's safe? OK since everyone else does it? Maybe that dude crashed because he was speeding. Maybe if you didn't speed he wouldn't have, either. Maybe if you don't speed nobody would speed. Maybe if you were more careful that driver wouldn't have been in his situation.

Don't come in here and remind me to be careful
When you don't even bother to recognize your role in this

I'm pretty certain there is no need for this thread
Everyone here knows that driving recklessly is dangerous
Little children know that much
You're not saving us here, either.

Unless your intention in reporting this here was to save some of us in that area from delays
You can keep it to yourself.
"I made the thread, because it worried me"
No you didn't. This is why you posted the story .."Jon, sweetie, you done good"

"if people are going to get all on me, then I'll just pm a mod to lock the thread"
Don't forget your ball.

At reasonable rates of speed with safe distance between cars there is always time to react. You drive safely, Pheard. YOU.

This thread is really sweet and everything about how you only wish you could have helped if there were
time? I don't understand that part about no time.
.."time to abruptly.." Abrubtly takes no time at all. Not the point, though.
"I was going 85 ..People, please be careful when you drive.
Don't drive at night if you're tired."

Why doesn't this make sense to me? I guess it's ok to not stop since everyone behind you is driving too fast to react to a car in front of them jamming on the brakes

This really smacks of you blaming other people for why you didn't stop. Sure, it may NOT have been safe and
True, more people could have been hurt if someone did try to stop at that instant
But I'm not down with listening to you speak of your groups first aid skills and desire to stop and save the uneducated and tired bastards day but just couldn't cause of everyone else's failure to drive safely behind you
I do not truly care if you stopped on a dangerously narrow speck of a shoulder to call for help.
Just say you called for help ..no need to make yourself sound brave to make up for not actually saving a persons life with your own bare hands.
There are no points awarded for doing anything

All I can say to you
Is you be careful driving
Perhaps don't drive 85 mph or whatever speed it actually was
You believe that's safe? OK since everyone else does it? Maybe that dude crashed because he was speeding. Maybe if you didn't speed he wouldn't have, either. Maybe if you don't speed nobody would speed. Maybe if you were more careful that driver wouldn't have been in his situation.

Don't come in here and remind me to be careful
When you don't even bother to recognize your role in this

I'm pretty certain there is no need for this thread
Everyone here knows that driving recklessly is dangerous
Little children know that much
You're not saving us here, either.

Unless your intention in reporting this here was to save some of us in that area from delays
You can keep it to yourself.
"I made the thread, because it worried me"
No you didn't. This is why you posted the story .."Jon, sweetie, you done good"

"if people are going to get all on me, then I'll just pm a mod to lock the thread"
Don't forget your ball.

At reasonable rates of speed with safe distance between cars there is always time to react. You drive safely, Pheard. YOU.
Dude, think about what you post. Half of that doesn't make sense.

Analyzing what I did is pretty stupid considering you weren't there. I made a judgement call.

Calling 911 put's me past the 100s of other people who drove past and did nothing( who knows maybe everyone called 911? ) I'm not asking for praise by starting this thread, all I did was call 911. Dialed 3 numbers, big deal.

and you're right, I'm not looking for justification or a pat on the back for what I did, I already made that clear. I could care less how many people think I should have done something different.

Oh and I WAS driving safe. If I had slammed my brakes, then my driving could have been construed as unsafe. Even if I was going 85, which I don't think I was, that doesn't mean I wasn't driving safe. This has nothing to do with me. Nothing to do with how I drove, nothing to do with how fast I was going. This was just an experience I had.

I'm happy and fully glad to listen to anyones point of view in regards to the situation.

I made the thread to share an experience, because that's my right as a member of this forum.

If you tell someone that they're wrong it's then your duty to tell them why you think that is so. Do not go around telling people "half of what you just said doesn't make sense"
In doing that you're informing someone that there are aspects they need to straighten out
You need to point out those very things, Pheard.
If you do not you're essentially allowing them to go on spouting the same crap cause they never know what may be in need of change
So what's the point in telling someone that they're wrong in the first place? Just looking to earn a few points? They don't learn anything that way, Pheard. Making yourself flook good by putting others down ..nothing in the world is easier to do when you don't even risk telling what it is that's incorrect about them and their views.

"Calling 911 put's me past the 100's of other people who drove past and did nothing"
Not really. I mean, it may have if you left it at that
But you came into bikeforums and told everybody of your heroic rescue adventure. You're not humble by pretending to not seek acknowledgement for your actions. Maybe tens of others used cell phones, I dunno. Doesn't matter. You trashed your bonus points for good once you mentioned 85 miles an hour. You're part of the problem. You refuse to accept that. You blame others for your inability to stop and do more. You're the reason why those behind you were speeding. If you were to drive 45 it's pretty likely that the only ones behind you would have been going 45 also ..leaving them plenty of time to react to you stopping in front of them. It's your fault, Pheard.

I never said calling from the phone wasn't a good thing to do. It was. I'm proud of you for caring.
But you went back to even with all the other things you've mentioned.
Possibly into negative territory

"and you're right, I'm not looking for justification or a pat on the back for what I did"
I actually said the opposite.

"I'm happy and fully glad to listen to anyones point of view in regards to the situation."
No, you already said you'd have the thread locked if people didn't stop being mean. You've just realized that it makes you appear -better- by accepting their negative criticism ..More points for you.

"I made the thread to share an experience, because that's my right as a member of this forum."

Sure is. I also have a right to post whatever I feel like so long as it doesn't cross any boundaries
You cannot guarantee yourself a wonderful public image by simply getting rid of a persons ability to say anything negative about you.

Please, go ahead and tell me now what it was that didn't make any sense in the earlier post.

This thread is really sweet and everything about how you only wish you could have helped if there were
time? I don't understand that part about no time.
.."time to abruptly.." Abrubtly takes no time at all. Not the point, though.
"I was going 85 ..People, please be careful when you drive.
Don't drive at night if you're tired."

Why doesn't this make sense to me? I guess it's ok to not stop since everyone behind you is driving too fast to react to a car in front of them jamming on the brakes

This really smacks of you blaming other people for why you didn't stop. Sure, it may NOT have been safe and
True, more people could have been hurt if someone did try to stop at that instant
But I'm not down with listening to you speak of your groups first aid skills and desire to stop and save the uneducated and tired bastards day but just couldn't cause of everyone else's failure to drive safely behind you
I do not truly care if you stopped on a dangerously narrow speck of a shoulder to call for help.
Just say you called for help ..no need to make yourself sound brave to make up for not actually saving a persons life with your own bare hands.
There are no points awarded for doing anything

All I can say to you
Is you be careful driving
Perhaps don't drive 85 mph or whatever speed it actually was
You believe that's safe? OK since everyone else does it? Maybe that dude crashed because he was speeding. Maybe if you didn't speed he wouldn't have, either. Maybe if you don't speed nobody would speed. Maybe if you were more careful that driver wouldn't have been in his situation.

Don't come in here and remind me to be careful
When you don't even bother to recognize your role in this

I'm pretty certain there is no need for this thread
Everyone here knows that driving recklessly is dangerous
Little children know that much
You're not saving us here, either.

Unless your intention in reporting this here was to save some of us in that area from delays
You can keep it to yourself.
"I made the thread, because it worried me"
No you didn't. This is why you posted the story .."Jon, sweetie, you done good"

"if people are going to get all on me, then I'll just pm a mod to lock the thread"
Don't forget your ball.

At reasonable rates of speed with safe distance between cars there is always time to react. You drive safely, Pheard. YOU.
I think you have may actually have something beneficial to say, but you haven't chosen the best way to express it.

You weren't there, and you probably don't know that stretch of road any better than I do. Please don't be an armchair driver. And don't second-guess why he was doing whatever he was doing. You really don't know the full situation. Bottom line is, nothing can be changed, so why do you feel you have to rake him over the coals? Can you not see that this otherwise outstanding young man is already very conflicted about what he could have done or not done? Let it go. If you know anything about Jon, as we Foo regulars do, you have to know that he is a sensitive guy who's learned a lot from this experience, without some self-righteous insomniac coming along to try to "teach" him something. Again, nothing can change whatever happened to the person/people in that car. You're not doing a great job of mentoring by trying to show how smart you are. Jon is quite intelligent, and if you're as mature as you want to appear to be, you can be empathetic to his situation as a very young man, and find a way to help him learn without trying to make him suffer.

Bottom line: lay off of Jon. I'm the freakin' person who said "Jon, you done good," and not him. You, who won't dare to list more than the minimal info about who you are. :rolleyes: He's a great guy, though young, and perhaps not with all your wise experience. Don't ream him. Teach him. Big difference. What's done is done. And if you have issues with what I'm sayin', PM me. But warning: you can't intimidate me. Not after the personal hell I've been through.

Oh and I WAS driving safe. If I had slammed my brakes, then my driving could have been construed as unsafe.

Not exactly. You were just doing the unsafe as safely as possible. That's not the same thing as being truly safe.
If you were to drive safely
If everyone on the freeway were to drive safely
There would not be nearly as many accidents and deaths on the road. 85 anywhere is not safe. 45 isn't safe, either. 0 is safe and 15 is pretty safe. Anything over that is cost to benefit.


Even if I was going 85, which I don't think I was, that doesn't mean I wasn't driving safe.
I think that's what everybody in court says.

Jon, regardless of the superior attitud that others are attacking you with, I feel you did a commendable job. You took action. You did what you fetl you could do and that's enough. For some people to try and hang is guilt trip on you is wrong. The accident wasn't your fault.

Curious... how many other vehicles passed that scene and took no action?

I sir, am damn proud to know you.

Sand... You have earned the honor as the first on my ignore list, you pompous prick

If you tell someone that they're wrong it's then your duty to tell them why you think that is so. Do not go around telling people "half of what you just said doesn't make sense"
In doing that you're informing someone that there are aspects they need to straighten out
You need to point out those very things, Pheard.
If you do not you're essentially allowing them to go on spouting the same crap cause they never know what may be in need of change
So what's the point in telling someone that they're wrong in the first place? Just looking to earn a few points? They don't learn anything that way, Pheard. Making yourself flook good by putting others down ..nothing in the world is easier to do when you don't even risk telling what it is that's incorrect about them and their views.

"Calling 911 put's me past the 100's of other people who drove past and did nothing"
Not really. I mean, it may have if you left it at that
But you came into bikeforums and told everybody of your heroic rescue adventure. You're not humble by pretending to not seek acknowledgement for your actions. Maybe tens of others used cell phones, I dunno. Doesn't matter. You trashed your bonus points for good once you mentioned 85 miles an hour. You're part of the problem. You refuse to accept that. You blame others for your inability to stop and do more. You're the reason why those behind you were speeding. If you were to drive 45 it's pretty likely that the only ones behind you would have been going 45 also ..leaving them plenty of time to react to you stopping in front of them. It's your fault, Pheard.

I never said calling from the phone wasn't a good thing to do. It was. I'm proud of you for caring.
But you went back to even with all the other things you've mentioned.
Possibly into negative territory

"and you're right, I'm not looking for justification or a pat on the back for what I did"
I actually said the opposite.

"I'm happy and fully glad to listen to anyones point of view in regards to the situation."
No, you already said you'd have the thread locked if people didn't stop being mean. You've just realized that it makes you appear -better- by accepting their negative criticism ..More points for you.

"I made the thread to share an experience, because that's my right as a member of this forum."

Sure is. I also have a right to post whatever I feel like so long as it doesn't cross any boundaries
You cannot guarantee yourself a wonderful public image by simply getting rid of a persons ability to say anything negative about you.

Please, go ahead and tell me now what it was that didn't make any sense in the earlier post.

Again, I think you have something meaningful to impart to Jon, but you are very purposefully dragging him over the coals to do so. What's the point of that? I think that you could make your points in a much less confrontational way and still teach him something. <shaking head> I just don't understand why some people get off on making other people wrong, rather than trying to lift them. Again, PM any response to me directly about my comments, and let's let Jon rest tonight.

Hey I thought you were saving that honour for me :p :p :p :p :D :D
Nah, it's all good.

I was going 85 and it was around a corner where there wasn't alot of shoulder and there were cars behind me. Not alot of time to instantly stop.
It's been a long time ago, but I remember from my American Red Cross first aid training that the very first thing to do when encountering an injured person is to ask yourself: "Is it safe?"

You done good. Piss on anybody saying otherwise.

I think you have may actually have something beneficial to say, but you haven't chosen the best way to express it.

I don't write novels in internet forums and I don't edit what I write. I leave that for grading.

You weren't there, and you probably don't know that stretch of road any better than I do. Please don't be an armchair driver. And don't second-guess why he was doing whatever he was doing. You really don't know the full situation. Bottom line is, nothing can be changed, so why do you feel you have to rake him over the coals? Can you not see that this otherwise outstanding young man is already very conflicted about what he could have done or not done? Let it go. If you know anything about Jon, as we Foo regulars do, you have to know that he is a sensitive guy who's learned a lot from this experience, without some self-righteous insomniac coming along to try to "teach" him something. Again, nothing can change whatever happened to the person/people in that car. You're not doing a great job of mentoring by trying to show how smart you are. Jon is quite intelligent, and if you're as mature as you want to appear to be, you can be empathetic to his situation as a very young man, and find a way to help him learn without trying to make him suffer.

I may not know that particular corner in question like the back of my hand but I am from SoCal so I know the area well enough

I do not enjoy being told to drive safely while this guy admits to driving 85.
That is why I need to rake him over the coals a bit. I think we all need to if we wish to remain alive. Problem with that is
How many of you never speed? Exactly. Most everyone does, right?
Maybe those wanting to "let it go" simply do not want to face the facts along with him

So now you're putting me down, too? Sounds to me like another guy is beginning to join the bully ranks ..putting people down so that you, your friend or both remain atop that little perch above the rest of us non-foo regulars without any character witness backup. How normal.
He is sensitive! What am I? A brute because I say something bad about the guy? You yourself said he was an -otherwise- outstanding young man
..There must be room for my posts.
Bottom line is the guy is driving. He takes us all into his vehicle when on the road. Nobody is a very young man while in the drivers seat. Nice intelligent people kill just like the mean dumb.

"nothing can be changed"
He can change.


"You, who won't dare to list more than the minimal info about who you are."
What?

But warning: you can't intimidate me. Not after the personal hell I've been through.
Where do people get this stuff?

If you want to tell me about your personal hell I'm all ears. I'm interested. Others may warn you not to trust me:rolleyes:
Hey, I don't have backup here to tell of how great, sensitive and intelligent I am.

Jon, regardless of the superior attitud that others are attacking you with, I feel you did a commendable job. You took action. You did what you fetl you could do and that's enough. For some people to try and hang is guilt trip on you is wrong. The accident wasn't your fault.

Curious... how many other vehicles passed that scene and took no action?

I sir, am damn proud to know you.

Sand... You have earned the honor as the first on my ignore list, you pompous prick


Here is one of those people. Stacey, an otherwise wonderful, sensitive, intelligent person I am sure.
Bully no less.
Stacey, you don't know me. I actually tried to speak with you about how a person can gain trust
Nearly everyone else gave you a pat on the back and walked away from the real issue. Pats on the back solve nothing.
I tried. You took something I did in a way I wish you hadn't
That's life, I guess. Still, I am here. If you do not care to give me the slightest benefit of the doubt
That's not my problem. I do not carry grudges, though. You say something in a post where I believe my rather (seemingly) unique -not so unique afterall- view may be of some help to you in your life
I am going to post it whether you you can read it or not. Why?
Because I actually care if you gain your place within your family back. I care. I think it sucks that people see you as something besides the person you once were
Then again, I don't know you well enough to say you ever were a beautiful soul
I give you the benefit

"pompous prick"
Nice, Stacey. You keep sticking up for those driving 85 just cause they're part of the crew. I figure this post was nothing more than a way to dig himself deeper into that crew. I guess it has worked.

I just want him to realize that he isn't safe. If one drives recklessly you are allowing everyone to do the same. He is
IN FACT
causing accidents whether he has ever been in one or not
Period.

I guess I'm insensitive for trying to make Pheard realize that. How funny. :D
Nothing can ever change if we call those breaking laws and putting people in danger WONDERFUL PILLARS OF HUMANITYTHE SALT OF THE EARTH WHATNOTS

Again, I think you have something meaningful to impart to Jon, but you are very purposefully dragging him over the coals to do so. What's the point of that? I think that you could make your points in a much less confrontational way and still teach him something. <shaking head> I just don't understand why some people get off on making other people wrong, rather than trying to lift them. Again, PM any response to me directly about my comments, and let's let Jon rest tonight.


Our time on BF is short so you need to make the most of it
I cannot take Jon on a trip through the forest and teach him the ways of the enlightened even if I knew the path without it taking much more time than we have here in this thread to do so.

Point is he is not driving safely. Period. He needs to slow dowwwwwwwwwn. He doesn't understand that by speeding "safely" he is allowing others to speed dangerously.
He's part of the problem.

Jon can go to bed anytime he wants. I'm just posting cause that's my right. I do not care who reads it, really.

Hey, I don't have backup here to tell of how great, sensitive and intelligent I am.
With the posts you have been making to this thread, is it any wonder why?:p

Where do people get this stuff?

If you want to tell me about your personal hell I'm all ears. I'm interested. Others may warn you not to trust me:rolleyes:
Hey, I don't have backup here to tell of how great, sensitive and intelligent I am.
Read my posts. Then PM me. If you can take the time from making everyone wrong. Maybe you should just consider walking away now. And then this thread will die a natural death and not be prolonged by your whining.

Oh and I WAS driving safe. If I had slammed my brakes, then my driving could have been construed as unsafe.

Not exactly. You were just doing the unsafe as safely as possible. That's not the same thing as being truly safe.
If you were to drive safely
If everyone on the freeway were to drive safely
There would not be nearly as many accidents and deaths on the road. 85 anywhere is not safe. 45 isn't safe, either. 0 is safe and 15 is pretty safe. Anything over that is cost to benefit.


Even if I was going 85, which I don't think I was, that doesn't mean I wasn't driving safe.
I think that's what everybody in court says.
You are really belaboring this whole thing in an effort be right.

Well. Ok. Hey. EVERYBODY! Sunofsand is right! Yaaaaayyyyyy! Now, go away.

Our time on BF is short so you need to make the most of it
I cannot take Jon on a trip through the forest and teach him the ways of the enlightened even if I knew the path without it taking much more time than we have here in this thread to do so.

Point is he is not driving safely. Period. He needs to slow dowwwwwwwwwn. He doesn't understand that by speeding "safely" he is allowing others to speed dangerously.
He's part of the problem.

Jon can go to bed anytime he wants. I'm just posting cause that's my right. I do not care who reads it, really.
Your right to continue belaboring. Yes. :rolleyes: My right to tell you that you've said enough. You really have no clue how to "enlighten" anyone, do you? But you're a damned good poet. He is an intelligent young man, and is fully aware of things that he should or shouldn't have done by now. And, I remind you, you have no better idea than I about the conditions on that road. I take Jon's word for it if it was too dangerous to stop quickly. And as regards the speed, sometimes it's actually more dangerous to go at speed limit if all other traffic is moving much faster. Honestly, I suspect you like to look for opportunities to sound self-important. If I'm wrong about you, I'll apologize. Again, PM me, and leave Jon alone.

I never said he could do more in this particular situation. It's good Jon called for help.
I'm only saying that something needs to change on our roads -why not start with him and his speeding?
It's all one big long chain. you break the chain somehere along the line and everyone begins wondering why the chain broke

That is how change is brought about. You change one persons viewpoint and you have a whole system change ..hopefully for the better

I guess everything is perfect in your world, Vega? People don't die from speeding in your world? Is this just not the place to speak of it? Change cannot happen here? ..or is it that I just shouldn't make Jon the first one to change? Which is it?

I am done, though. Sleep well.

I have a funny feeling this thread is about to heat up lol and im staying out of it lol!!!! I hope the mods take note that I was NOT part of this particular **** fight... :roflmao:
No, baby, my back's the one that's up. Jon is a great guy, and doesn't deserve this beratement. I'm sure the mods are aware of this.

With the posts you have been making to this thread, is it any wonder why?:p

That is funny. I give you a +1.

I would just hope that people can see that what I am saying actually is sensitive
It's not that anybody here would actually say speeding isn't an issue.

It's just that people don't like it when you jump all over their buddies.

Please, stop 'quoting' sand. When you do, I get... have to see his bullsh!t too. Ignore dosen't block quotes. :(

Hey Jon what is done is done. Don't trip. Where on 280 is this? Today is your day off, so for your own peace of mind, try to call CHP and see what the results were. Tell them you were the initial caller at the time of the accident and they should give you the info. I'll be at work today but do me a favor and call me after you find out and we can talk about it, okay?:)

Here is one of those people. Stacey, an otherwise wonderful, sensitive, intelligent person I am sure.
Bully no less.
Stacey, you don't know me. I actually tried to speak with you about how a person can gain trust
Nearly everyone else gave you a pat on the back and walked away from the real issue. Pats on the back solve nothing.
I tried. You took something I did in a way I wish you hadn't
That's life, I guess. Still, I am here. If you do not care to give me the slightest benefit of the doubt
That's not my problem. I do not carry grudges, though. You say something in a post where I believe my rather (seemingly) unique -not so unique afterall- view may be of some help to you in your life
I am going to post it whether you you can read it or not. Why?
Because I actually care if you gain your place within your family back. I care. I think it sucks that people see you as something besides the person you once were
Then again, I don't know you well enough to say you ever were a beautiful soul
I give you the benefit

"pompous prick"
Nice, Stacey. You keep sticking up for those driving 85 just cause they're part of the crew. I figure this post was nothing more than a way to dig himself deeper into that crew. I guess it has worked.

I just want him to realize that he isn't safe. If one drives recklessly you are allowing everyone to do the same. He is
IN FACT
causing accidents whether he has ever been in one or not
Period.

I guess I'm insensitive for trying to make Pheard realize that. How funny. :D
Nothing can ever change if we call those breaking laws and putting people in danger WONDERFUL PILLARS OF HUMANITYTHE SALT OF THE EARTH WHATNOTS
Ok. Now you don't need to go off on other people, especially Stacey.

You keep saying you only want to let Jon know that he was going too fast. "Hey, Jon! Sunofsand wants you to know for the 10th time this morning that you were going toooooo fast!"

C'mon. Let it go. I've made you right. I've told Jon to pay attention to your nth notice about his speed. if you continue, I'd say this is freakin' harassment of Jon. So you'd better just walk away. Before you get banned.

one of the first things you learn in first aide classes is to not become part of the problem, by stopping on a blind curve could have made the problem bigger and more dangerous stopping where you can to call would be best, if i was in the car off the road i would want someone to stop and help, but not if it would cause more injury , 90% of the people just looked and kept on going(guessing)

i agree with you

Your right to continue belaboring. Yes. :rolleyes: My right to tell you that you've said enough. You really have no clue how to "enlighten" anyone, do you? But you're a damned good poet. He is an intelligent young man, and is fully aware of things that he should or shouldn't have done by now. And, I remind you, you have no better idea than I about the conditions on that road. I take Jon's word for it if it was too dangerous to stop quickly. And as regards the speed, sometimes it's actually more dangerous to go at speed limit if all other traffic is moving much faster. Honestly, I suspect you like to look for opportunities to sound self-important. If I'm wrong about you, I'll apologize. Again, PM me, and leave Jon alone.


Do you really have any right to tell me I've said enough?

My point is (one of my points)
AGAIN
Is that we should all lower our speed ..not just Jon. 85 is not the speed limit. I don't care if everyone is going 85
that doesn't mean it's safe.

You're basically throwing our laws out the window!
It may not be safe to move slower than the rest
but it isn't CARELESS. HUGE DIFFERENCE. It's not the slow person needing to change.

I never said he could do more in this particular situation. It's good Jon called for help.
I'm only saying that something needs to change on our roads -why not start with him and his speeding?
It's all one big long chain. you break the chain somehere along the line and everyone begins wondering why the chain broke

That is how change is brought about. You change one persons viewpoint and you have a whole system change ..hopefully for the better

I guess everything is perfect in your world, Vega? People don't die from speeding in your world? Is this just not the place to speak of it? Change cannot happen here? ..or is it that I just shouldn't make Jon the first one to change? Which is it?

I am done, though. Sleep well.
Your ignorance of forensics speaks loudly.

You need not make Jon, on a bike forum, your prey for change. Go talk to your freakin' senators and congressional reps. And let us be. You are such a goodhearted, but very misguided person.

Do you really have any right to tell me I've said enough?

My point is (one of my points)
AGAIN
Is that we should all lower our speed ..not just Jon. 85 is not the speed limit. I don't care if everyone is going 85
that doesn't mean it's safe.

You're basically throwing our laws out the window!
It may not be safe to move slower than the rest
but it isn't CARELESS. HUGE DIFFERENCE. It's not the slow person needing to change.
<rewind> <replay> <rewind> <replay> Give it a rest. You have made your point. About three hours ago. :rolleyes:

Please. Go to Washington and get the speed limit back down to 55 mph nationwide. We need you there. Not here. On a bike forum.

Stacey went off on me!
You're just sticking up for friends again, Vega.

And what are to Jon? His father? I do not want him to just listen and follow orders from Vega. I hope for him to understand.

Harrassment of Jon.
Saying I believe he has done something wrong is harrassment?
I've spoken with you more than Jon by now. Am I harrassing you? I'm not sending you thousands of private messages into your personal space.
We are in public. This is a forum. This thread was made public. It is fully ok for me to state my opinions within it regarding the posts submitted here. I cannot be banned from here for doing so. Well, I could be
But I have faith that those with the power to ban me have more sense than that