Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Could a custom bag company do this?

Could a custom bag company put a design like this on a bag? Or do designs usually have to be more 'textile' based (stripes, dots, etc.)?

http://www.shawscope.com/ShaolinLongfist/shawscopedotcom/shawframe019.jpg


I used the search function but couldn't really tell how far custom bag detailing went.

And, of cousre I don't meen a complete duplicate of that image (ie: color fade, rippled backround) but mostly the SHAWSCOPE lettering and Shaw Bro's. shield.

definetly

uh

yes most bag companies are very skilled with appliques get on re loads site and email them

Easily. Embroidery. I don't think applique works with the tiny oriental letters at the top, but they can surely be embroidered. Won't be cheap, though.

You could always have it screen-printed. It would probably be the easiest way to do that design.

You could always have it screen-printed. It would probably be the easiest way to do that design.

Agree. You'll get exactly what you want.

You could always have it screen-printed. It would probably be the easiest way to do that design.


hell in that case stencil and spray paint anyone

Screening isn't very difficult. Just find someone with the materials.

this is about as detailed of embrodery as ive seen in a bag (ive seen a bit more but not much). embrodery in combination with applique could do something on the level of detail you want, no doubt. talk to flippin hades!


http://farm1.static.flickr.com/63/173619344_1601250be1.jpg

this is a ramblin worker bag, btw.

reload. from what i have seen (and i have shared workspace with them on a few occasions) they can do anything.

Under the Weather (http://under-the-weather.ca/) can also do that - take a look at their gallery, there's some unbelievable stuff in there.

I could do the main logo, but the Kanji characters would probably be a stretch - the machine I currently use for embroidery isn't so hot with the very small details.

Shaw brothers, nice. BAM just did a retrospective on some of their works. I finally got to see Five Venoms on the big screen.

That kind of fine detail (in the calligraphy) actually gets below the resolution level of applique -- at least, if attempted, it doesn't look good. It'd get quite expensive as well (I had a bag with the same amount of fine applique done and it cost $200 extra). You can have machine embroidery done, but it requires a program that costs about $200. Then the embroidery itself is only $15-20, but a bagmaker will have to quote set-up fees and the like. They usually do this in situations where they do 20-100 bags at a time, like for a messenger service. You definitely get the detail and greater range of colors, shading, etc. Silkscreening works, but it won't have the elegance of embroidery and it'll be more subject to wear. Those are the standard techniques.

You can also scan that image at high resolution and then have it shot directly onto photosensitive fabric. That way you will get the background quilted look and everything (or if you don't want all that, go to Photoshop and remove the background). The fabric can then be stitched onto your bag. The image will be quite durable but the fabric itself won't be as durable as the cordura the bag is made of.

Or try using mixed media. Use applique for the ShawScope and logo, and for the calligraphy have it painted on by someone using rubberized paints. Those are amazingly durable, can be applied to cordura, and can be retouched if you ever need it.

You *can* do machine-embroidered calligraphy with a zig-zag machine -- check out this bag by UTW:

http://under-the-weather.ca/images/JetFuel/MMPlumTreeFMd.jpg

It just takes a lot of skill - you have to adjust the zig-zag width while you're stitching, and it takes practice to be able to coordinate with one hand controlling your fabric, one foot on the pedal, your knee on the presser foot lift, and your other hand on the stitch width regulator.

Yes. Reload Bags can definitely do it. They just did an awesome custom bag for me. It's expensive, but no one else will have it.
Their website is
http://www.reloadbags.com/
Check out the custom stock page.

one day bag compnies are going to wake up (or sell out, depending on your take) and get laser cutters and sub out embroidery to a place with a computer controlled machine.

one day bag compnies are going to wake up (or sell out, depending on your take) and get laser cutters and sub out embroidery to a place with a computer controlled machine.


We do, they do, we all do, just not for one-offs. Corporate logos et al, sure have a computer/machine do it, why waste skills on such repetition. For something personal or that there will be only one of, for example something you drew that is specific to you, that you'd rather NOT see anywhere but your own bag/self, the organic look of an artist's touch add to it's appeal & value. Precise measurements & digitized stitching do not count as an enhancement in those circumstance, do they? Even text can be made better than perfect with some crafted imperfection.

Plus there's "thread painting" which a machine could do, but probably wouldn't, not without a team of digitizers & days of work positioning the materials etc, no more than a machine could produce a worthy oil painting with a wooden brush & palette without a team of experts at it's side. Someday maybe...actually almost definitely, til then skills will be appreciated as much as the ideas that compliment them I hope.

http://www.under-the-weather.ca/images/JetFuel/SunflowerDetail.jpg
This is an example of applique, embroidery & thread painting. Mind you it's a $500 bag, and it'd been more if not a repro of an actual painting or privately commissioned, but we made it for a show so there it is. Thread painting isn't nearly as durable as embroidery/applique either, besides the width the stitch length & tension is called into play. I can't do this, but the boss is good at it.


Thanks for the props Adam! :)

You betcha - you know I get excited every time your gallery is updated :D

I don't normally get this grumpy or didactic, but these custom bags are getting over the top consumerist. S*** needs to get back to DIY. If you can buy it, it's not style.

Some beautiful work is being done by the people making them, tho.

I don't normally get this grumpy or didactic, but these custom bags are getting over the top consumerist. S*** needs to get back to DIY. If you can buy it, it's not style.

Some beautiful work is being done by the people making them, tho.

That is ridiculous. I don't have the skills to create beautiful artwork, so I shouldn't be allowed to decorate my surroundings with other artist's creations that they have been kind enough to share with the world? Give me a break.

In this case I definitely do not have the skills to create the design I have in mind, but with the help of someone that is skilled I can work together with them and have something that came out of my mind but wouldn't exist without the help of a skilled person. Teamwork is rad!

I don't have the skills to create beautiful artwork

Yes you do.

I don't normally get this grumpy or didactic, but these custom bags are getting over the top consumerist. S*** needs to get back to DIY. If you can buy it, it's not style.

Some beautiful work is being done by the people making them, tho.

Yeah man, lemme just pull out 3 grand for a juki industrial sewing machine out of my bunghole. :rolleyes:

Yeah man, lemme just pull out 3 grand for a juki industrial sewing machine out of my bunghole. :rolleyes:

I'm talking about the decorations, not the bags themselves. Anybody can decorate their own rig. I mean, the showpieces are one thing, I think it's beautiful art, but it seems like they've become the latest commodity fetish around here. Before this it was Rapha ****.

I'm talking about the decorations, not the bags themselves. Anybody can decorate their own rig. I mean, the showpieces are one thing, I think it's beautiful art, but it seems like they've become the latest commodity fetish around here. Before this it was Rapha ****.

Comparing what independent bag makers do to Rapha is stretching things by a LOT. Rapha stuff is mass produced with like a 4000% markup over the cost of materials - it's a luxury brand based on Mmarketing. Look at how similar their catalog feels to, say, Tag Heuer, or Rolls Royce, or, I dunno, Prada.

RELoad, UTW, Seagull, Bedlam, me, mikearena, (I'm sure I'm missing someone here) - the price you pay for the artwork is based on labor (and it *is* a lot of labor), and I think everyone's charging pretty damn fair rates, across the board.

It's *fetishistic* now for people to want a unique bag? Something with an image on it that means something to them personally?

Sorry, I'm calling bull****.

Look, three months ago everybody had big wood to spend money on rapha, now it's custom bags. I'm just watching trends here, and I happen to think this one started cool (people doing neat personal stuff to bags) and has now jumped the shark into ******* consumerism. I don't personally give a crap, my bag says jansport on it and has one too many straps to be cool anyway.

Commodity fetishism has a pretty specific social science meaning, but I'm mostly too tired to explain. Umm...Manolos, Louis Vuitton <sp?>, the 82423 stupid clothing "brands" out there right now that are just kids in Bushwick selling stuff to kids in Williamsburg so they can move to Williamsburg too, the faux-punk dip****s with the "lifestyle clothing" store in Baltimore we were making fun of a while back, etc...

I guess I'm just amazed at the amount of money people around here seem to have to spend on fashion items. It's weird.

Yes, I understand all that, I just think that you're mis-analyzing the situation. I don't think that the custom messenger bag market is at ALL comparable to fashion brands. Comparing the market to Rapha I can see, but Manolo Blahnik? Please.

First of all, getting something custom made is the antithesis of a commodity fetish item (if you go what Marx filtered through Wikipedia says), since it requires lots of communication -- I can't speak for anyone else, but there's an average of 20+ messages in the thread for each of the orders I get (thanks, gmail).

My customers are NOT buying something based on a perceived value, but an actual one -- a lot of the people I've made bags for don't own cars, and use their bags for everything. For something that you're using for hours every day, to tote your clothes and books and groceries in, spending a couple of hundred bucks to get something made to your specs and personalized with imagery that's meaningful to you is not expensive. Again, the antithesis of fashion.

Sure, there's probably a lot of people getting customized bags just because they think they're cool -- RELoad's "custom stock" bags are popular, but I think that a) you're blowing it out of proportion. And b) even if you're not, why care?

Basically what I'm saying is, I understand your argument, and I don't see it.

ok so T or F: custom bag business is up hugely in the last 6 months

ok so T or F: custom bag business is up hugely in the last 6 months

You're not going to make your point that way, because there's no data available for that.

But also for a lot of other reasons -- the number of bag makers offering customization has definitely jumped over the last few years, that's true. That gives buyers more opportunity -- if there's only one game in town and they have a three month wait, that's going to turn off a lot of people.

A number of them (like me) seem to have started out just making a personal bag as a hobby and turned it into a business in response to positive feedback.

The general market for messenger bags is growing (witness the gargantuan volume of Timbuk2 -- what we're arguing about here isn't 1% of the market, or even 0.10% of the market, it's more like 0.00001% of the market).

Nearly every single-strap bag marketed these days is called a "messenger bag" - in the 80's we just called those "shoulder bags". *There's* your commodity fetishism. I don't think you can have commodity fetishism with a hand-made product which doesn't come close to the volume required to be called a commodity. Unless you're radically redefining what a commodity is.

But never mind, you've obviously made up your mind solidly.

First of all, getting something custom made is the antithesis of a commodity fetish item .


VERY well said, Adam. Succinctly put.

We need more voices like yours here at BikeForums. And thanks for reminding me that I rocked a sholder bag through the nineties! I almost forgot, ha ha. I will be looking you up in the Bay.

I hope you stick around here...


Don't let one prick keep you from planting roses!

See, what's funny is I was all set to get a bagaboo recently, and decided to 'settle' on a Chrome because I felt it would be too flashy. Now, instead of something that completely stands out and says 'loook at meeeee' I have a non-descript black and gray bag.

The irony of saying 'loook at meeeee' by posting about it is not lost on me. :D

WELLL I hate to interupt this little debate but I decided to go with this design instead:

http://www.cobrakaidojo.com/cobrakai300dpi.jpg


http://www.grannygear.com/Assets/Images/Races/Bigbear/2006/Cobra_Kai.jpg


But, I got a Chrome Kremlin because I need a bag ASAP, so I'm going to have to find a way to get it embroidered some other time.

marxist critiques of capitalism are so 90s

Stop Argueing With Each Other And Sweep The ****ing Leg!

marxist critiques of capitalism are so 90s

This isn't a marxist critique, any more than making market arguments makes you a "Smithian." Marx originated the term, but it's gone a long way since then.


VERY well said, Adam. Succinctly put.


And wrong, but who's keeping score?

Here's a more modern term for thinking that by getting something "customized" you're not following the herd: 0wn3d. You think the million fast and furious jackasses out there with "custom" cars are really that original?

Put whatever you want on your bags, and pay whoever you want to do it. People that are actually making art and not just scanning **** into an embroidery machine, rock on. (For the people that do want something embroidered on their bag, many good t-shirt shops can do this work for you, though it may come out better if they only have to go through one layer so you might need someone to sew your flap back together when it's done.) I'm just saying, three trends from now you're probably going to wonder why you paid 5 bills for a bag.

Oh, and if you can buy it, it isn't style.

*snicker*

I'm still back to "why do you care so much?".

You're also still wrong - if you're talking about the same kind of customized bags the rest of us are, none of it is "scanned into an embroidery machine".

ok so T or F: custom bag business is up hugely in the last 6 months

False. The only numbers I have are UTW of course. There are more people interested in late spring, steady through the summer, a lull through the winter with a bump of holiday season activity. Makes sense, it's the same pattern bicycles & bicycle accessories follow for many LBS's. It's followed that pattern all our years.

As for all that about "custom" not really being "custom", we've never repeated any artwork you see on a flap except for a race trophy on occasion. It's a rule too, if you were to go to our gallery and fall in love with something you saw there, too bad, it's someone else's already. I'm not sure how we fit into the pwned "fast & furious" example while we fool our patrons into believing they've got something original by providing them with something that is in fact original...suckers.

Certainly they aren't aware that they've removed the pleasure of having functional & stylish bag when they pay us for our work. I guess at that point they're left with a functional bag that can't be seen or that others will discount as pedestrian & bland because they couldn't have possibly made it themselves. That's the reaction my wife gets to her custom Archbold CX. At first people are like[/forgive] "Wow, that's a sweet bike, how long did that take you?" and when she's like[/forgive] "This guy Archbold made it for me, a good deal too!" and they're like[/forgive] "oh...just a bike huh?" then they walk away because they can't remember why they were talking to her. It's weird, man.

WELLL I hate to interupt this little debate but I decided to go with this design instead:

http://www.cobrakaidojo.com/cobrakai300dpi.jpg


http://www.grannygear.com/Assets/Images/Races/Bigbear/2006/Cobra_Kai.jpg


But, I got a Chrome Kremlin because I need a bag ASAP, so I'm going to have to find a way to get it embroidered some other time.

I bet they've got a sew on patch you can get, then just sew it on yourself, carefully so as not to sew through the liner. I've not been to many but any dojo with a cool logo & a pro shop has probably got it available. Getting it put on there later via embroidery would cost more than the bag & be a PITA.

I just ordered a Reload Bag after 5 years of lugging around a well-made mass-produced bag that never quite suited my needs. I could list off the things that don't work for me, but suffice to say in order to get something that would work better I needed to have it custom made. In the end I wound up paying $40-$50 more for the Reload which is aside from suiting my needs better also more durable. Included in the price is $15 for a simple appliqu&#233;. I didn't want to spend a lot on aesthetics, but $15 to make the bag look spiffy, and a little unique seemed well worthwhile. I've spent at least twice that replacing straps, and buckles on the old bag over the last 5 years, and I'm sure the T-shirt shop would charge me more to put an appliqu&#233; on my bag as well. They charge a reasonable price for materials, and for labor, and miraculously come out as competitive with good quality mass produced products.

My last bag cost somewhere around $160, and lasted me over 5 years of daily use and occasional abuse. It's still going strong, but doesn't really meet my needs as well as I'd like. The new Reload cost $200 including shipping, and should easily last longer. I really admire all the fancy embroidery, and appliqu&#233; the folks mentioned in this thread do. I wouldn't want anything so intricate on my daily bag, but if I did, and could afford it, I would have no problem paying for it, especially on something I will use every day for a long time to come.

Edit: I'm talking about the decorative stuff, not the little add-ons or color choices and stuff like that.

fer chrissakes, I'm not against you guys that are doing the work, I think a lot of it is beautiful and the best stuff is some of the most immaculate embroidery I've seen anywhere in a long while (and I know a little bit about this stuff, used to do some business with a t-shirt shop that did it). I guess it just seems like another way in which this little hobby of ours has gone the way of "OMG how much money can I spend on this and how exclusive can I make my posessions." See also: Rapha, Chrome & other branded knickers, the NJS thing, the double straps thing, CF wheels, the 650 front thing, goldpartsapalooza from this past year, coloreddeepvsapalooza, IhaveawhiteTurbo, OMGPINKOMG, plenty more where all of that came from. I've been half-jokingly saying that randonneur bars are going to become stylish soon because they're the only style of bars that haven't really been in style yet.

I point out that simple logos and crap can be scanned into a machine and done that way because I think if people want something like that done, hey, go for it. I personally like DIY stuff, but it's not for everybody.

Like I said, you guys are doing cool work and all, I just generally think it's really weird how much money people on here spend on trends and fashion.

snip... I just generally think it's really weird how much money people on here spend on trends and fashion.

A lot of people spend a lot of money on a lot of stuff they don't really need. Folks here aren't so special. Take a look at the road forum if you want to see what really happens when you have too much money.

Anyway I'd always rather spend money on quality craftsmanship, than on having the latest and greatest or carbonfiberiest, or bellsandwhistliest. That stuff is all fleeting, but quality craftsmanship lasts a lifetime, and a good portion the money you spend on it goes to the person who made it. How much of the $65 you spent on your Jansport backpack went to the person who operated the sewing machine?

A lot of people spend a lot of money on a lot of stuff they don't really need. Folks here aren't so special. Take a look at the road forum if you want to see what really happens when you have too much money.

Anyway I'd always rather spend money on quality craftsmanship, than on having the latest and greatest or carbonfiberiest, or bellsandwhistliest. That stuff is all fleeting, but quality craftsmanship lasts a lifetime, and a good portion the money you spend on it goes to the person who made it. How much of the $65 you spent on your Jansport backpack went to the person who operated the sewing machine?

$65? Too classy for my blood, mine is a $30 REI outlet rig. Probably did cost $65 at first, but whatev. The craftsmanship on it is better than any USA-made soft goods I've seen except for stuff from Fish Products, which is basically a one-guy custom operation. Most of the seams are better than the ones on my Gregory multiday backpacking rig, and there's certainly more detail. I'm a climber in my other life, I knows me some good stitching when I see it as I trust my neck to it all the time.

Sorry, but I don't get fired up about the industrial organization and labor relations behind the stuff I buy.

Sorry, but I don't get fired up about the industrial organization and labor relations behind the stuff I buy.

I like to get paid, and figure do unto others... Sure I buy sweatshop schnit just like most everyone else, but I feel better about it when I can know the person that made it got paid a living wage. If you don't think a living wage is important, then hey, no sense worrying about anything other than the bottom line, but if you do care about anyone else besides yourself you're just hiding your head in the sand.

I like to get paid, and figure do unto others... Sure I buy sweatshop schnit just like most everyone else, but I feel better about it when I can know the person that made it got paid a living wage. If you don't think a living wage is important, then hey, no sense worrying about anything other than the bottom line, but if you do care about anyone else besides yourself you're just hiding your head in the sand.

I've been doing research (like as a gig, not a hobby) on topics related to global trade, globalization, wages, fair trade, living wage, etc... off and on for the better part of a decade, and I've come to the conclusion that the kinds of goals you talk about just aren't achieved by the means you suggest.

mattface hadn't a goal but a consideration, one he takes into account when he is being a consumer. It's not possible to see any goals or methods in his posting at least for me. It's also impossible to see in your posting. What it seems to say is that globalization, global trade are outside the control of society & that fair trade programs, expecting a living wage, et al have unachievable goals or are ineffective programs & should thus be ignored.

I'm not sure why it's such a huge crime here if someone wants a beautiful bag as well as a functional bag and has the money to spend on it. If buying such a thing supports some awesome companies like Reload and UTW and not some corporate giant, terrific.
For another thing, what difference does it make if someone wants a work of art that is unique? I personally do not care to have a bag or a bike that looks like everyone else's, so I order my bags from a company that can make beautiful, functional ones and I custom paint my bikes so that they have the images I want on them. So?
Where are we drawing the line between patronage of artwork and "trendiness"?

mattface hadn't a goal but a consideration, one he takes into account when he is being a consumer. It's not possible to see any goals or methods in his posting at least for me. It's also impossible to see in your posting. What it seems to say is that globalization, global trade are outside the control of society & that fair trade programs, expecting a living wage, et al have unachievable goals or are ineffective programs & should thus be ignored.

I'm pretty tired of having this argument, but here goes. By my figures, about 25-30 cents out of every dollar something "fair trade" costs over the non-FT alternative of otherwise similar quality goes to the person that's supposed to be getting it (the farmer or whatever). The rest goes to middlemen, retailers, etc... That's called getting pwn3d, folks. Last time I did those numbers I mainly used coffee, now that the market for other stuff is growing I've seen more recent stuff that said it's averaging out to as low as 10 cents, though to be fair some of it was from people who really, really hate the fair trade movement. But they hate it for a reason: many of the NGO's now supporting fair trade were the ones supporting coffee-growing initiatives 10-20 years ago, so they're the ones that helped create the problem and now they've got another Big Plan to fix it.

I've been in the middle of a few living wage campaigns, as best as I can tell "living wage" means you take a normal labor negotiation and add hippies. State and local minimum wage initiatives are good up to a point, but the local differentials can create ugly distortions. What we need is action on the federal level...oh wait, the Democrats are doing it and it looks like it's not going to get vetoed.

Back on the subject: put whatever you want on your bags, make cool art, party on wayne, party on garth. Just don't get a custom bag because it's what's hot right now, yours will still have the new car smell when the next trend comes along.

I have recently ordered a custom bag from Seagull (Dan's the nearest to home) and would definitely consider it a decision based on wanting a unique item. That having been said, I'll be waiting about 6 weeks when I could have a similar style from Chrome for less than half the price (wholesale, as I work at a shop). The undiscerning eye of non lifestyle cyclists would likely see my purchase as neat and unique, I would have instant gratification, and I would save money. Pretty sweet deal if I were going for maximum ego inflation, but I wanted specific parts of my bag to reflect my perceived needs. Yeah, I want to try messengering at some point, so I needed a large backpack with padding as I perceive that to be the most comfortable way to haul lots of weight and maneuver in traffic. Whether I'll actually be a messenger or not, I'll still have a wonderfully made product by a local guy which will serve me for years to come. It's not like we're buying thousand dollar PS3s, Beanie Babies, or body kits for sports cars we're likely to scrape while driving into a fast food joint's parking lot. We're buying things in response to our perceived needs and, I think, very sparingly on fetishism. Anyone that doesn't use their spendy messenger bag is a dolt, just like any other wasteful person.

Well, a lot of this spew here seems to center on what YOU seem to think is most people's rationale for buying a bloody messenger bag, i.e., being trendy.
Whatever.
But this pseudo-economics you're giving us... please.
Cite some figures (Yes, I mean statistics) related to specific companies who produce [I]messenger bags[I] of the type we're talking about, or shut up about it.
Come on.

Well, a lot of this spew here seems to center on what YOU seem to think is most people's rationale for buying a bloody messenger bag, i.e., being trendy.
Whatever.
But this pseudo-economics you're giving us... please.
Cite some figures (Yes, I mean statistics) related to specific companies who produce [I]messenger bags[I] of the type we're talking about, or shut up about it.
Come on.

Plenty of people buy mess bags for plenty of reasons, if I were ordering one I would certainly get some "custom" stuff done, but for the third time or so I'm talking specifically about these decorated flaps that seem to be showing up on this board more and more. I'm sorry, but it's a trend, it's not like people are sitting at home getting this idea for themselves. People are seeing other people's bags here and in real life and getting their own made. Fine. Rock on. Fire it up. It's your thing, do what you want to do. Some of the art is amazing:
http://under-the-weather.ca/images/JetFuel/MESSunflowersFMd.jpg
http://reloadbags.com/site_images/CUSTOM_STOCK_tapecourierfull.jpg

Some is not technical at all but unique and funny/catchy (DIY props on the first one):
http://tn3-2.deviantart.com/300W/fs7.deviantart.com/i/2005/178/b/c/nintendo_messenger_bag_by_frogz.jpg
http://reloadbags.com/site_images/CUSTOM_STOCK_browncuttersfull.jpg

and sadly, some of it is technically well done but thematically embarrassing in that special OMGFIXIEWOOOOO!!!!!1111 way:
http://under-the-weather.ca/images/Cog1.jpg
http://reloadbags.com/site_images/CUSTOM_STOCK_chikaartshowbagfull.jpg
http://under-the-weather.ca/images/JetFuel/TaliahAmyFMd.jpg

(Mostly ReLoad and UTW there, plenty more out there but I'm lazy)

I haven't stated any pseudo-economics, and I don't claim to have figures from the bag companies, just what I see on here and on the street.