Training & Nutrition - Weight loss with Atkins.

I started the Atkins diet on Monday of this week. I'm about half-way through the Induction phase. It has been tough going. But I'm getting used to it.

After weight myself this morning I have lost about 5 pounds since last week.

The way I weigh myself is in the morning when I get out of bed, with a empty stomach, bladder and bowel & with no cloths on.

For those of us who weigh ourselves to keep track of our weight loss it is suggested that you weigh yourself the same way everytime. If you have eaten 2 meals and you are clothed but no shoes the first time you weighed in then that is how you need to weigh every time after that.

So far Atkins is working for me.

I know there are folks here in the forums that do not agree with he diet & have suggested against it.

I have a few questions for you opposers of the Atkins diet:

1. Have you read any of the books on the Atkins diet?

2. Have you ever tried the diet yourself?

3. Are you suggesting against it and basing your opinions of it based on wht other people and/or other doctor's have told you?

It seems to me that a lot of the people that are opposed to it are "judging a book by its cover". Please folks until you have done your research and homework on Atkins don't say anything to the contrary about it.

How ever is you have done research on it then by all means offer your opinion, good or bad.

Finally, anyone else doing the Atkins diet right now? Or am I the only one that is a member of this forum who currently is?

Personally, I just don't believe in ANY diet, not just Atkins.
I believe in eating healthy and exercising. The reason is, what happens when you go off a diet? Usually you go right back to where you started or worse. Lifestyle change is the only way to lose weight and keep it off. IMHO.

I tried it.

It worked for awhile.

But I came to hate the idea of eating. More meat, more fat. Ugh.

And I felt terrible. I ate the recommended amount of salads and used fiber supplements, but I was still constipated.

And I had no energy. Some people say they feel energized by the diet, but I felt awful. And it seemed like months before I felt OK again. My strength and endurance fell way off. And I'm not that strong or fit to begin with.

The only reason I think I lost weight on it was merely because I hated eating the recommended foods. Less eating = fewer calories = quick weight loss. Which is bad.

And I used the Atkins book as reference.

I gave up after a few weeks. It's not good to feel that crappy all the time.

Your mileage may vary.

First of all, there is no question atkins diet causes weight loss.

With that said, studies that show efficacy were done in patients who were relatively inactive. Athletes engaging in vigorous aerobic activities were not included in significant power to show benefit. Common sense dictates that a ketogenic diet would adversly affect aerobic activity.

In addition, there are alot of complications: increased kidney stones due to the increase of oxalate (a byproduct of high protien diets) forming calcium oxalate stones, gallstones, interstitial nephritits, and gout exacerbations due to high purine intake as well. It does improve glycemic control in many studies though. Also, cholesterol levels initially go down but after 6 months on the diet it rebounds up ( I have seen this personally).
In addition, most of the intial loss is mostly water loss as well.

A calorie is calorie.

Let's not forget that some of the most heart healthy and thinnest people ingest the least amount of protein (Asians) specifically the chinese and far east. (Japan is not included)

Yes I read the book.

I lost 60 pounds after the birth of my baby exercising and eating less

I would not recommend this diet in anyone prone to developing kidney stones, any underlying kidney disease, or osteoperosis.


In addition, teenagers may not be good candidates due to potential for cardiac abnormalities see below:


By Best TH; Franz DN; Gilbert DL; Nelson DP; Epstein MR
Department of Pediatrics, University of Cincinnati College of Medicine, OH 45229-3039, USA.
Cardiac complications of the ketogenic diet, in the absence of selenium deficiency, have not been reported. Twenty patients on the ketogenic diet at one institution were investigated. Prolonged QT interval (QTc) was found in 3 patients (15%). There was a significant correlation between prolonged QTc and both low serum bicarbonate and high beta-hydroxybutyrate. In addition, three patients had evidence of cardiac chamber enlargement. One patient with severe dilated cardiomyopathy and prolonged QTc normalized when the

also here is a link with a case study http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/442894

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/414346

and another adversly affecting osteoperosis
osteohttp://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/436800er

How do you replenish glycogen reserves without consuming carbohydrates?You don't. I would seriously reconsider this venture if your idea of aerobic excercise is anything more strenuous than a leisurely walk. If you really want to lose weight, eat a little less, and exercise a little more.

I haven't done Atkins but I did low carb. I ate less fat and a bit more carbs than the Atkins (maybe 30 g / day?). It was definitely a balancing act, getting enough carbs so that I didn't bonk when riding -- I did once, and I've never felt so awful before or since. Other times, off the bike, I felt great -- it really ironed out those blood sugar lows in the afternoons. When I had lost some weight (about 25 lbs), though, and I got a little lax over the Holidays about my diet, I was a fat magnet! I have never gained weight so fast in my life. So here I am now, with 8 lbs more than when I started -- I'm enjoying eating healthy (I've learned I love salad) and riding my tandem, but I don't think I'll do the low carb thing -- just the food pyramid for me, and foods that are easier to find in restaurants and stores.

I’m vegetarian, so I can’t recommend this diet either. Vegetarianism works for me!
Here is his obituary.
Robert C. Atkins, Diet Guru and Author, Dies

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A48023-2003Apr17.html

Originally posted by heresy
How do you replenish glycogen reserves without consuming carbohydrates?You don't. I would seriously reconsider this venture if your idea of aerobic excercise is anything more strenuous than a leisurely walk. If you really want to lose weight, eat a little less, and exercise a little more.

While I advocate and have used similar diets (low carb) This is a good point. I did the low carb diet when doing a very anaerobic routine where carb needs were at specific times in the routine. For aerobic activity where carbs are actually used a lot I don't think I could do the diet...

Either way best of luck and I hope your goals are fullfilled :)

How do you replenish glycogen reserves without consuming carbohydrates?You don't

this is an important point. no matter how much weight you might lose from this diet, you need carbohydrates to restore glycogen levels after exercise. if you exercise and don't replenish glycogen, you are actually slowing down your metabolism.

personally, a diet based on meat and fat is just disgusting. also, dirtgrinder was right when he said no diet really works. you need a lifestyle change to make it work. screwing with your body's natural functions does not seem like a good lifestyle change to make.

i say go veg and exercise. there is no more healthier lifestyle.

For those with alot of weight to lose calorie restriction can be very effective for weight loss.If you have problems controlling carbs due to cravings ketogenic type diets can help here.Keep in mind though longer term and as weight levels get closer to normal (or on a targeted basis prior)you will need to add back in some low glycemic complex carbs to replenish muscle sugar (glycogen)for athletic activity .Also keep in mind longer term for overall health(though the study quoted above seemed to be lacking in participants and control) you do not want to overdo protein and saturated fat and even shorter term you can substitute some healthier fats for these .The key is to learn to avoid eating carbs and in particular high glycemic sugary carbs for emotional reasons or to constantly top up blood sugar(glucose)levels.High glycemic sugary carbs are only appropriate to fuel very brief maximum intensity exercise(literally running for your life)yet they are everywhere and grossly overconsumed in todays quick fix culture.Topping (but not overtopping)muscle sugar through low glycemic carbs is not a problem even for weight loss you may just need some dicipline in understanding your body and how many and what type of carbs it actually needs for optimal function.Good Luck

after many phsiology classes and nutrition classes i can maintain that this diet was specifically deisgned for sedentary people. Ihave read the book and have talked with many people about the diet on a professional basis.

some of the muscle breakdown that can occur and the water that is shed causes some to question its long term safety.

i think that the problem is like with all diets....the maintain phase is difficult to stomach. that is where the lifestyle comes in. i think that people in this forum that are leading healthy lifestyles have a hard time grasping the diet concept.

everything in our body is a cascade mechanism (systems feed on each other) and severely limiting an entire food group for long periods of time is a concern for some.

Originally posted by gonesh9
i say go veg and exercise. there is no more healthier lifestyle.

Thats a matter of opinion....;)

like everyone has said here.. this diet can make you crash..hard if you are not careful.. you need carbs.. but i looked at this site
http://atkinscenter.com/howto/index.html

and read the food he recommends for the induction period(two weeks ) and there is plenty of veggies.. but ones that are low in the glycemic index. this diet works for a lot of ppl if you are not doing a lot of exercise.. so if you plan long tours i would recommend you up your carbs beforehand.. maybe see a nutritionist instead and see if she/he can get you on track. Atkins also says that you will lose water and muscle mass with this diet.

i personally know ppl who have done the diet.. they had no energy for much cycling or even housework.. but they lost a lot of weight.
here is another site for info if you want to check out some of the articles jp wrote.

http://www.worldfitness.com/index.php?

just be careful.. too much creatine can affect your kidneys and liver. :(

Personally I've never tried the Atkins diet, or any other diet for that matter. However I really don't see the corollation (sp?) between carbs and weight gain or loss. Personally I'd stick with what Dirtgrinder said and leave it at that.

Thank you for your responses. Glad to see some of you have actually read the book or at least read the info on the atkins web site.

For those that have read the book know that there has yet to be a case study shown that this diet causes kidney problems, that is if you read the book carefully.

I have and I continue to referance it as needed.

Now just a reminder & for those that do not know. When it comes to aerobic exercise of any kind you first burn your glycogen and blood sugar for energy, then what your protein, then fat. A majority of the first 2 are stored in your liver, the fat is every where else in your body. Also what ever carbs are not burned as energy are stored as fat until the body needs it for energy. This BTW is the key and one of the main reasons most over weight people are over weight.

Think about it. Back in time before the 1850's there was hardly a fat american in this country. Why? Because there was a lot less carbs being consumed. But there was a lot of animal flesh and fat being eaten. Mainly pork and beef. Then all of a sudden there was the invention of foods like Coca-Cola, refined flour and processed breakfast cerials and refined processed sugar. After that people started gaining weight. And they still consumed pork and beef. And there level of activity remained the same.

Most of the population at that time were farmers and ranchers. So they led a very active lifestyle because that is how they made their living.

So if people were not getting fat before the 1850's then why did it start happening after? Simple they started eating all the refined and processed foods such as the breads and cerials and drinking Coca-Cola, etc.

Atkins simply tells to eat similar to the way people did before the 1850's.

The atkins diet retrains your body from burning glycogen for energy to burning fat. That is the reason for the low carbs. That is why the induction period is so important.

Granted I have only been on the diet for less then a week. But I have yet to feel so drained of energy. Now I'm guessing that the reason I don't feel drained is my body is starting to switch from burning glycogen to burning fat for its energy.

In laymens terms the book explains it as you slowly turning a switch for about 2 weeks within your body from one energy source to another. This is the induction period as mentioned above. Once you are used to the way the diet works then you start the next phase. The last phase is a maintenance phase.

The induction part is differant for everyone. I am going to do it for 2 weeks. Some take longer others shorter. There is no formula for how long to go through the induction period. It is just something I chose for myself. But the book does say to go through the induction for at least a week.

This Sunday will be my first bike ride since I started the diet. I'll let you know how I feel after wards. It is about 50 miles long with nice rolling hills.

On the energy sources you are right overall in that you are switching from burning sugar to fat for fuel and that you want to avoid readily available sugar for carbs but wrong in that most glycogen is stored in the muscles and these carbs will not shut off fatburning as during aerobics you are actually burning both but a higher % of fat and if you totally deplete muscle glycogen particularly as your bodyfat levels get lower you risk bonking where your body starts cannabolizing muscle protein for fuel to preserve bodyfat.But overall it sounds like you are on the right track so keep at it and let us know how you do.Just be careful not to overrely on one source for information particularly one that could be biased for marketing reasons. I do agree the recent additions of refined carbs to the diet are a problem.Also it is after your muscle sugar carbs are topped that you begin to store carbs as fat thus the key being only consume enough carbs in low glycemic form to top muscle sugar glycogen stores.Of course if you have problems controlling carbs it is probably better to err on the side of to few than too many.

Hey John.....dump the diets and quick fix ideas,ride your bike,and ride it alot,you will lose weight whether you want to or not.Get over the 200mile/wk mark and you could prob eat anything and still lose weight.When it comes to staying healthy and fit there arent ANY quick fixes or shortcuts that are permanent or lasting.Exercise is the key,always has been and always will be.This isnt meant with any disrespect,but you keep talking and not riding,on lots of forums.......talk is cheap,go ride.

Originally posted by horndude
Hey John.....dump the diets and quick fix ideas,ride your bike,and ride it alot,you will lose weight whether you want to or not.Get over the 200mile/wk mark and you could prob eat anything and still lose weight.When it comes to staying healthy and fit there arent ANY quick fixes or shortcuts that are permanent or lasting.Exercise is the key,always has been and always will be.This isnt meant with any disrespect,but you keep talking and not riding,on lots of forums.......talk is cheap,go ride.

horndude um thanks. But I have been riding, maybe not what you would consider a lot and when the weather is nice enough. As the weather gets better of course I'll ride a lot more.

As far as what forums I post on, first of all what business is it of yours? And I only belong to 2 total. This one, meaning bikeforums in general and another that has to do with restoring antique bikes. Bicycling.com is not one of them.

Oh and to add insult to injury which will proably make you role your eyes (and more then likely make a issue of this over in bicycling's forums, which I could care less about), I have a informational meeting on May 9th about having the lap band procedure done. Which is similar to the gastric by-pass but not permenant.

Do tell though what is your definition of "a lot" of riding? what just because a person is not a bike messanger like you you don't think they ride a lot? To me 1,500 to 2,000 miles a season is a lot.

I do not and will not ride in cold weather below 40 degrees unless it is a organized ride that I pay for, or in rain unless I get caught in it. So please stop telling me to ride my buke a lot. You did the same thing in Bicycling's forums. I hated hearing it then and I hate hearing it now from you!

Further more and finally Atkins is in no way a quick fix! Again here we have someone who has not read the book or even looked at the web site! Had you done that horndude you would see that Atkins is in no way a quick fix type diet. So please before you suggest anything at all to me do your damn research on it!

Exercise is the key,always has been and always will be.This isnt meant with any disrespect,but you keep talking and not riding,on lots of forums.......talk is cheap,go ride.

I agree that exercise is the key and lifestyle change will do more for your health than counting calories. Focus on activity before diet. So go for a walk before a meal, or a bike ride, do some yard work, a weekend hike or whatever; just get outside everyday and have fun. So get off the computer and go for a ride!

Good luck, keep posting and fill us in on your progress. (lets see some numbers) :)

Regards,
Gordon p

Originally posted by N_C


Further more and finally Atkins is in no way a quick fix! Again here we have someone who has not read the book or even looked at the web site! Had you done that horndude you would see that Atkins is in no way a quick fix type diet. So please before you suggest anything at all to me do your damn research on it!

Actually Ive done quite a bit of reading on it,have atkins book right here,and ive visited the late doctor's site several times.Fact still remains,its a temp solution,its not sustainable by active people,then again active people usually dont need a weight loss diet,but a healthy diet that coincides with a strong exercise program.

Sorry I bothered you,heck Id like to ride with you,like I said above,no disrespect intended,just my 2 cents and best advice that I can come up with based on what Ive learned over the years.From my experience though,as far as cyling goes your not gonna see any benefits weight wise till you hit around 5000+ miles/yr....thats a hundred/wk or like 90mins/day.....Im just tired of so many people putting diet/calorie counting ahead of exercise which should definitely come first,afterall,a lack thereof is what gets most ppl in trouble anyway.Peace,and I wont bother you further.

Although I am anything but an expert on the subject of historical diets, I would think that prior to 1850 people were not consuming primarily meat. If anything, since prior to 1900 the two largest occupations were domestic servant followed by farm worker, I would expect that the diets would have been comprised primarily of inexpensive grains. Bread would have been a highly popular item.

I would expect that the reason people were not as fat as today was because they worked like dogs 12 hours a day and when they went someplace nearby most of them walked. Horses were expensive and had to be fed daily so most people could not afford such a luxury. Work was very manually intensive so lots of calories were burned during the work day.

Prior to our modern times, a sign of prosperity was to be obese. Obesity indicated having plenty of food to eat. One would certainly expect the wealthy would also have consumed lots of good old high-fat high protein meat.

All this is not to say that the Atkins Memorial Diet should be avoided. I have no experience with it. However, I would advise you, or anyone trying to lose fat to get and use a scale that measures body fat percentage. The key is that you want to lose fat not muscle. I would use this type of scale to verify that is what you are doing.