It was pointed out in a recent thread that there's not much input from stokers. Are there more of us out there that just aren't posting? Let's post our 2 cents here. Name your favorite ride. Locations that you'd like to ride. What does your captain do that drives you nuts? Do you have techniques that you've found to keep this from happening? Do any of you take over as captain or have a desire to do so? Let's show T.G. that we are not the "passive stokers" that he speaks of.
I'll start. We bought our first tandem in April 2006 and put just shy of 2000 miles on it last year (didn't quite make it due to a move and bad fall weather here in W. MI).
My favorite ride is the Mission Peninsula, north of Traverse City - beautiful countryside, water on both sides, vineyards, orchards, very interesting and rolling terrain. If you ride on a hot day like we did, you can even cool off in the bay afterwards - very shallow water at the tip of the Peninsula.
The thing that annoys me the most is when the captain doesn't say "coast", and I haven't found a foolproof method to change that - yet.
Stoking is great because it gives me a chance to look around, spot birds, check out landscapes, etc. - something I can't do much when on a solo.
To all of you who think you or your significant other might like tandeming, give it a try or you'll never know.
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
I applaud you for your post! My biggest stoker pet peeve is the assumption that couples get a tandem because the woman cannot keep up with the man riding singles. Drives me crazy! Next on my list are the jokers who yell out "she's just coasting back there." We got our first tandem back around 1980 - we did the Tecate-Ensenada ride, did a time trial, and rode from Monterey to Santa Monica. We sold that tandem and got out of biking for awhile - pursuing other sports/activities. We moved to the Bay area last year and got back into biking big time - getting gnarly. Last August we bought a new tandem - we split our cycling 50/50 (50% tandeming and 50% singles). As much as I love tandeming, I would never give up riding my single (just got a new 2007 Orbea Orca). They are almost two different experiences. Riding my single is "me and my bike," yet I get so much gratification from the shared team effort on the tandem. I am fortunate to have a superb captain and we are a great team. It is all about communication and trust. We put our cranks 90 degrees out-of-phase, and our average speed went up dramatically - seamless power. We can go up hills on the tandem as fast as on our singles and can both stand together. I don't like to coast so I have to be patient when the captain wants to coast for a a "butt break." We generally have common goals (hard ride, recovery ride, etc.) We also have alot of fun chasing down team riders.
I generally listen to my Ipod which I don't do on my single. I have a cycling playlist - really gets me revved up, but have the volume low enough to hear traffic and the captain. We have met other tandem couples and have become good friends. Our friends have the "tandem talk", but we are not into that. I have the Garmin Forerunner 305 and am constantly monitoring my heart rate to make sure that I am optimum. Captain also have a bike computer and we exchange heart rates when we are pushing hard. We like to bike in Napa and Sonoma, but the bulk of our riding is up and down the Peninsula - some of the best biking in the country - I love to see the peletons! We are looking forward to a great 2007 - will be riding the Solvang Century in March, will do some spring time trials, and are doing a 9 day tandem tour in Tuscany in the fall.
Do you have matching jerseys, team kits, etc? We are not really into that, but have matching helmets, sunglasses, and shoes. We do have one matching bike club outfit.
Let's hear from some other stokers!
Doggus
My biggest stoker pet peeve is the assumption that couples get a tandem because the woman cannot keep up with the man riding singles.
...psssst....this is the main reason we got one.
And my stoker found this little nugget in a ride log of one of our local riders. She writes:
"And it was great to have a new perspective, from the front of the pack, which would not have happened on my single!"
galen_52657
Not that I don't appreciate the difference in the genders (I DO!!!), or the fact that there are plenty of fast women cyclists, but I have only ridden with one woman in 20+ years of cycling who could hang with a men's A training ride, and she had to draft on the flats (she was a semi-pro).
So, yes the tandem was purchased so that my girl and I could both get a workout together on the same ride.
My biggest stoker pet peeve is the assumption that couples get a tandem because the woman cannot keep up with the man riding singles
Velodiva
[QUOTE=Doggus]...psssst....this is the main reason we got one.
That is fantastic! My gripe is that it seems to be an AUTOMATIC ASSUMPTION in all cases.
Velodiva
Not that I don't appreciate the difference in the genders (I DO!!!), or the fact that there are plenty of fast women cyclists, but I have only ridden with one woman in 20+ years of cycling who could hang with a men's A training ride, and she had to draft on the flats (she was a semi-pro).
Reply: Most captains can't ride with a men's A training ride either . . . .
So, yes the tandem was purchased so that my girl and I could both get a workout together on the same ride.Reply: Again, that is fantastic!
Doggus
That is fantastic! My gripe is that it seems to be an AUTOMATIC ASSUMPTION in all cases.
I've highlighted the problems.
So you're most likely one of the bell curve outliers and your needing more respect. Wear a sign. Sounds like your tandem goes fast enough to get all the respect you should need already.
Rincewind8
Since my stoker doesn't read or post on this forum...
My biggest stoker pet peeve is the assumption that couples get a tandem because the woman cannot keep up with the man riding singles.
We mainly got the tandem so my stoker could ride at all. She had severe Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and her hands hurt when she holds on to the handlebar for longer than a few minutes.
The ride that we both like the most is the NYC century ride.
Velodiva
I've highlighted the problems.
So you're most likely one of the bell curve outliers and your needing more respect. Wear a sign. Sounds like your tandem goes fast enough to get all the respect you should need already.
Thanks. Seems like my griping got this thread off course. Sorry, GailB. Let's hear from the stokers out there.
svt4cam
Since my stoker doesn't read or post on this forum...
We mainly got the tandem so my stoker could ride at all. She had severe Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and her hands hurt when she holds on to the handlebar for longer than a few minutes.
The ride that we both like the most is the NYC century ride.
Except for the 180 degree hairpin bridge that tandems have to do 4 point turns around and the heft your tandem bridge. Lovely ride otherwise.
cgallagh
My husband brought me to this site. I guess I brought him to cycling. I've been riding solo w/a good friend & her husband for about 18 mos. or so now. We rode 5 centuries & too many club rides to count last year, and loved it -- the good times must have been infectious because my man bought us a tandem for our birthdays in the fall. Now we're in serious training (getting out once, maybe twice a week) for the Palm Springs & Solvang centuries. Laissez les bons temps rouler! :)
He wouldn't have a solo bike so the tandem allows him all the fun of riding without being dropped. I love that we have a sport that we can share. As the captain he works hard to learn the lingo, the signals, and to enjoy the rides. As the stoker I get to coach, encourage, enjoy the scenery, and work on letting him be in control of the bike. It's great fun!
Red Rider
masiman
My husband brought me to this site. I guess I brought him to cycling. I've been riding solo w/a good friend & her husband for about 18 mos. or so now.
As the stoker I get to coach, encourage, enjoy the scenery, and work on letting him be in control of the bike. It's great fun!
Red Rider
I think you are another outlier Red Rider. If enough of you keep posting, the rest of us will need to throw away our assumptions ;).
ElRey
Stokers: please captain the ship for a bit.
galen_52657
Stokers: please captain the ship for a bit.
Yeah...what he said....hold up my big behind when we have to stop.....
Red Rider
Not sure what an outlier is, so I can't speak to that. Just because I'm a stoker doesn't mean I don't have opinions, heh.
Since my hubby's still learning we always work our fannies off every time we ride. He's learning to communicate, and I'm learning to tactfully ask that he give me more than 1/10th second notice when he's going to coast. :(
Our biggest adjustment right now is downhill speed. He loves to scream down the hills :eek: , and I prefer a more conservative speed. Our favorite word right now is "compromise." ;)
masiman
Not sure what an outlier is, so I can't speak to that. Just because I'm a stoker doesn't mean I don't have opinions, heh.
An outlier such as on a bell curve, not the typical stoker we all think of. From previous posts it was noted that the stereotypical stoker is the weaker or less fanatic of the team. There have been two who have posted thus far that do not fit that stereotype, you and cranky. I think stepfam or expat would be another outlier. One or both of them are stokers.
Michel Gagnon
Since my hubby's still learning ... He's learning to communicate, and I'm learning to tactfully ask that he give me more than 1/10th second notice when he's going to coast.
Suggest that he slows down his spin to coast, and that he starts pedalling gradually. Instead of stopping "right away", you could stop pedalling in 2-3 crank revolutions.
Doggus
Suggest that he slows down his spin to coast, and that he starts pedalling gradually. Instead of stopping "right away", you could stop pedalling in 2-3 crank revolutions.
I use ever so slight back pressure and she picks up on it immediately. No verbal whatsoever. She does the same when she wants a coast. It's a dance.
The Weak Link
Hmm. My wife of 28 years also works for me in my office. She knows I love biking. I had the choice of using $1500 available cash and buy either a Trek Pilot 2.1 or similar, or a Trek T1000. Nobily, I bought the tandem. My wife and I enjoy the rides, although a training ride for me is 20-30 miles, and for my wife it is 4-8 miles. I hope one day she'll look forward to our rides as much as I do. And if she ever wants to captain, it's fine with me as long as she doesn't let it go faster than 10 mph (30mph, on the other hand, scared the crap out of her).
Red Rider
Thanks for the hints. We'll give them a try.
I taught Jazzercise for 15 years, and learned to cue about 4 beats before the change. My dh is working on that. Major props to him for even trying.
Our next ride is Saturday, probably a long one in preparation for our century. We'll keep you posted.
Red Rider
[COLOR="DarkGreen"]While I can't relate to her idea of ride length (it takes me about 15 mi. just to warm up) I can relate to her dread of speed. A couple weeks ago we did a long ride that involved some major hills (one ominously dubbed "Cardiac"). It wasn't the climbs (for me) as much as screaming downhill, 300 lbs. of metal & flesh, at 42 mph. I tucked in tight and barely breathed for what seemed like an eternity. Oy!
I hope your wife expands her ride length & speed. It really isn't so bad.[COLOR]
t4mv
While I can't relate to her idea of ride length (it takes me about 15 mi. just to warm up) I can relate to her dread of speed. A couple weeks ago we did a long ride that involved some major hills (one ominously dubbed "Cardiac"). It wasn't the climbs (for me) as much as screaming downhill, 300 lbs. of metal & flesh, at 42 mph. I tucked in tight and barely breathed for what seemed like an eternity. Oy!
Ah, yes, the Cardiac & Coronary tandem. Being where you're from, it would seem the downhill run off 128 (121? or was it Wooden Valley...) back to Vaca would be more of a toe curler...
Weight balance aside, how does an experienced stoker stand having a rookie captain up front? I've stoked for people who've never captained a tandem and the only ones I trust now are the ones that know how to handle a (long) bike and are able to communicate verbally. Anything other than that and I feel like bailing, and I'm sure all the captains on here know the feeling of a bailing stoker. :D
ElRey
I'm going to write a book explaining the commonality between tandem teamwork and sexlife. Will not be a bestseller. BUt might be funny.
Screaming down the hills..... yea baby.
Velodiva
Weight balance aside, how does an experienced stoker stand having a rookie captain up front?
As an experienced stoker, I would not stoke with an inexperienced captain. We all have to go through the learning process, but I put my life in my captain's hands. I would not be able to give full performance without that element of trust - would not be a good experience for either of us. My captain and I were both experienced cyclists when we first started tandeming together, so the transition to tandeming was a rather smooth transition.
Red Rider
Ah, yes, the Cardiac & Coronary tandem. Being where you're from, it would seem the downhill run off 128 (121? or was it Wooden Valley...) back to Vaca would be more of a toe curler...
Weight balance aside, how does an experienced stoker stand having a rookie captain up front? :D
How do I stand having a rookie captain? The same way he stands having a know-it-all in the back seat. Neither one of us expects perfection -- just performance and respect. We were all beginners once, weren't we?
I've never captained so I can't speak from that perspective. And my experience as a stoker isn't that much greater than my husband's experience as a captain. I do have more solo experience.
We rode the Lake Loop thru Fairfield, Wooden Valley (those rollers between Wooden Valley School & Mankewitz Corner are brutal) to 128. The downhill run was from the top to Markley Cove store. Whew!
This week we'll climb the dam first, then see how the climbs compare to the other direction.
Red Rider
I hear ya, CS.
I have much more solo cycling experience than my husband. I have about this () much more tandem experience than he. So we're learning together. Like I said earlier, neither one of us expects perfection, just performance. And so far, he's stepping up and working hard to learn his part. :)
So once he gets the timing down to cue me when he's going to coast, we'll be golden. :beer:
cornucopia72
The unannounced coasting issue has never been one for us. I do ease on the pedals before coasting and do anounce when slowing the bike on purpose or coming to a stop.
My wife/stoker does gets a little anxious with fast moving traffic in close proximity and tends to brace herself and stop pedaling. I have learnt that when ever she lets me know, by tapping my left hip, of aproaching traffic, (she wears a mirror attached o her helmet and I do not) she is likely to severely esase on the power of her stroke. So, if we are in no hurry I just ease on the RPM's, but if we are in a pace line or wanting to maintain speed, I almost automatically call the probervial: "pedal, pedal,...." as soon as I fell her hand tapping me. Disclosure: I wrote but my stoker approved (and edited) this posting.
ElRey
RedRider, as an observation: my stoker was much more sensitive to start-stop-coasting issues until we went to out of phase cranks. She absolutely loves it, and swears it's easier on her knees: sore marathon runner knees. Just a thought. She is 90 degrees behind me (retarded), not ahead of me. If you're stronger than your captain, maybe you would want to try 90 degrees advanced.
cgallagh
I know what out of phase is but how do you determine retarded or advanced? Thank you for the positive input. This is why I showed this forum to the Red Rider. She is an awsome stoker, the love of my life and my best friend and buddy. I want to make our rides the best possible. All the positive advice here is very welcome.
We are progressing nicely for only having had the tandem since end October. We have about 400 miles on it now and we are working pretty well together as a team (correct me if I am wrong Hon). We have climbed our way up some pretty steep, long, grades and steadily improved our overall speed and consistency. She is not a shy woman and will always let me know if something needs worked on. This weekend we are planning an 85 miler.
Red Rider
I know what out of phase is but how do you determine retarded or advanced? Thank you for the positive input. This is why I showed this forum to the Red Rider. She is an awsome stoker, the love of my life and my best friend and buddy. I want to make our rides the best possible. All the positive advice here is very welcome.
We are progressing nicely for only having had the tandem since end October. We have about 400 miles on it now and we are working pretty well together as a team (correct me if I am wrong Hon). We have climbed our way up some pretty steep, long, grades and steadily improved our overall speed and consistency. She is not a shy woman and will always let me know if something needs worked on. This weekend we are planning an 85 miler.
Awwww! :love: :love:
You're doing an fabulous job as captain. I can't say enough good things about how hard you work. Thanks for being my teammate & embarking on our tandem career with me.
Gimme a challenge & let's kick some boo-tay! :beer:
cornucopia72
I know what out of phase is but how do you determine retarded or advanced?
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that this is not a rethorical question. For a 90 degree OOP:
Advanced: Looking at the pedal arms from the right side of the tandem the captain's pedal is at 3 o'clock while the stoker's pedal is at 12 noon.
Retarded: Looking at the pedal arms from the right side of the tandem the captain's pedal is at 12 noon while the stoker's pedal is at 3 o'clock.
If the captain is the stronger (able to produce more power) ridder use Advanced, otherwise, use retarded.
Doggus
I am going to go out on a limb and assume that this is not a rethorical question. For a 90 degree OOP:
Advanced: Looking at the pedal arms from the right side of the tandem the captain's pedal is at 3 o'clock while the stoker's pedal is at 12 noon.
Retarded: Looking at the pedal arms from the right side of the tandem the captain's pedal is at 12 noon while the stoker's pedal is at 3 o'clock.
If the captain is the stronger (able to produce more power) ridder use Advanced, otherwise, use retarded.
And don't forget that you can do other degress as well. We tried 90...didn't work. We run around 10 degrees advanced.
StokerPoker
I just want to say that I miss being a stoker. My older brother and I used to have a tandem that we rode everywhere when we were younger. we took turns as captain and stoker. I loved being able to carry the super soaker or try to pick up random things as we went down the street or through the woods. that was years ago though. Almost exactly a year ago (3 days from now it will be a year) I bought a new tandem and My fiance and I rode it home. it was her first time on a bike in years and she was a little scared. it remained cold (as michigan does) for a few months and we pulled it out in the spring. it took her a while to get used to it and I spent some time changing saddles and bars to make it work better for us. We rode it a fair amount before I found a single speed Schwinn Breeze that I polished up for her. she did some riding on that and loves it. then I got her a mountain bike so she could do some trail riding with me and learn to shift and brake better. My goal for 2007 is to help her gain the confidence to captain our tandem. oh, and over the summer my brother and I took my tandem out and I got to re-live the stoker experience. I also learned many of the mistakes I was making as captain. my brother wasn't warning me about bumps or really sharp turns or hard braking. I started to get upset but then I realized that quite often I was doing the same thing to my fiance. so that more recent experience as a stoker hopefully has helped me become a better captain. and, if my fiance does decide to try out the captains saddle, I hope I am as understanding as she has been for me.
DBC Steve
We rode the Lake Loop thru Fairfield, Wooden Valley (those rollers between Wooden Valley School & Mankewitz Corner are brutal) to 128. The downhill run was from the top to Markley Cove store. Whew!
This week we'll climb the dam first, then see how the climbs compare to the other direction.
All those hills are great for tandems. My personal favorite is an after work romp up Cantelow, over Steiger Hill, down to Vacaville and return to Winters/Davis via Pleasants Valley Road. We came to call this the Burrito Brothers ride a couple of years ago since we stopped in Winters for burritos before turning our headlights on for the ride through the orchards back home. This weekend's DBC 100k Brevet Populare follows the BB route.
OK -- this is a stoker thread. Stoker content: the BB route is my stoker's absolutely favorite ride so far since it combines fast flats, steep uphill, very fast gradual downhills, beautiful views, and an excellent coffee house (Steady Eddy's in Winters).
As to your routes, the gradual downhill beginning at Moskowite Corners towards the dam is called tandem hill since you can really, really crank up the speed.
Anyone living in the Davis region is welcome to join us on what we hope to be a regular monthly tandem ride. Attempts to schedule rides in October, November and December were all met with rain, but we hope to get a regular ride into the Davis Bike Club schedule beginning in April. A group of us plans to ride in the Rice Valley Tandem Rally in February.
merlinextraligh
I know what out of phase is but how do you determine retarded or advanced?
Wonderlick?
stapfam
I am slightly unusual in that I am the stoker on an all male team. Didn't start that way but Stuart is stronger in the shoulders, and the legs, and the stamina and he hits harder than I can. This team works in that it is a team- the pilot, the stoker and the Tandem. I know when he wants to change gear, change direction, put in power, take a rest or have a break. It took 4 years to get to that state but it works. Occasionally I take others out on the Tandem- But never as pilot. That is where I still class myself as a better rider than most others, + the fact, I get dumped in the Mud often enough by Stuart but at least I know when that is coming. Put a novice on the front and it is not long before they get screamed at for doing it all wrong. The only time Stuart get screamed at is if he puts the brakes on too soon.
As to the age old question of the stoker taking it easy- If Stuart learnt to steer the damn thing- I would start doing my job of pedalling. Then we would start to fly uphills.
Thigh Master
We put our cranks 90 degrees out-of-phase, and our average speed went up dramatically - seamless power. We can go up hills on the tandem as fast as on our singles and can both stand together. I don't like to coast so I have to be patient when the captain wants to coast for a a "butt break."
Any trouble with striking pedals on asphalt in turns with that offset? We are in Menlo Park and will look out for your red hot stoking! We are new - Salvang Century sounds cool!
Red Rider
Any trouble with striking pedals on asphalt in turns with that offset? We are in Menlo Park and will look out for your red hot stoking! We are new - Salvang Century sounds cool!
Love your tagline "No bonking" -- indeed!
We're revving up for the Palm Springs Century in 2 weeks. Solvang in 6. As the stoker I'm finding it easier to read my capt.'s body language. Our timing on standing climbs is greatly improved too. We're getting excited about these big rides coming up.
Holla if you go to Solvang; maybe we can hook up at some point.
zonatandem
My stoker, Kay, deserves at least a mention!
We've only been married (happily!) for 52 years, 32 of which she has been stoker on our tandem(s).
Our go-fast days are behind us. Now in our 70s, we toodle along on a 20 miler at a slower pace . . . yeah, we no longer keep our nose to the front wheel, no more 53 mph descents and averaging 10,000+ tandem miles a year.
However, she's the best stoker I've ever ridden with (and yes, have ridden with lotsa stokers).
Been there, done that . . . and we're still doing it!
Tom&Jess
I am the stoker for our team, but with the ice and snow here in CO, we have not been able to get the bike out since mid Dec. We decided on a tandem because he wanted to me to bike with him, I wanted to go biking, but I am less secure on a bike. On singles, he would want me leading, I don't want to lead, and with him leading, I would be left in the dust. The compromise - a Tandem. We've only had the tandem about 6 months, and only riding one day a week, we probably have 250 miles on it - not many compared to some, but its good enough for me, especially since I have been recently diagnosed with a rare blood disorder and tire very easily and have apparently been dealing with this for many years. Our favorite ride so far is any one with a mountain view - which is pretty much most of them out here.
We're still fairly new, so still working out the communication thing - although I don't like when he tries to stand with out telling me.
So I would say that our purpose for the tandem is so we can enjoy each others company with something we both enjoy with out pissing off the other.
Jess
Red Rider
Jess, you & your cap'n sound a lot like us -- except I'm the experienced road rider, and would leave him in the dust. He didn't want to take away from his hang gliding time to get really good on a solo, thus we have a tandem.
He's learning well how to communicate everything ('cause I'll b*tch if he doesn't)ef. Something I learned on this forum, that works well for us, is he'll announce a stand or coast like "standing, 1,2,3..." That's made a huge difference for us.
I'm a happy(er) stoker these days.
Hope you have an early spring!
Michel Gagnon
A question then, why don't you captain the tandem and let him stoke? Unless you are a tiny 4' 10" 80-lb woman and he is a bulky 6' 4" 300-lb man, I think that the most experienced rider should be in front.
Red Rider
A question then, why don't you captain the tandem and let him stoke? Unless you are a tiny 4' 10" 80-lb woman and he is a bulky 6' 4" 300-lb man, I think that the most experienced rider should be in front.
I read this and it seemed like a good idea at the time:
http://www.bikeaholics.org/CaptainTraining.html
Seriously? I taught group exercise & personal training for nearly 20 yrs. I burned out on being in charge. I needed to get the fun back in my activities. Sometimes I just want to put my head down & pedal like a madwoman. So, he's the captain & I'm the stoker.
Apologies if it sounds as though I'm bragging and/or kvetching. In my mind I was stating facts. I can see where it looks like I was doing otherwise.
Michel Gagnon
Red Rider,
Whatever arrangement you have is fine if it suits both of you.