"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Poll: Racers, what's your Float?

Curious to see what kind of pedal/cleat float ya'll are running. I'm zero on LOOK Cx6's.

Zero...which is why I'm having issues now that one of my cleats went out of alignment...

last generation looks, pre-keo, red cleats which is 6 degree i think.

Speedplay X/2s... "unlimited"

Used the red Keo cleats (9 degree) when I switched from Speedplay, but now I have the grey ones that came with them. I think I'll throw those on (4.5 degree) and see how it goes.

Used to use Keo black cleats. One of my cleats went out of adjustment and I couldn't get it back to the right place, so I decided to try red cleats for the time being. I think the extra float is actually a detriment, as I find I need to make sure my foot stays in the optimal position. If I stop paying attention, I'll find my foot turned too far in the wrong direction.

I'll probably move to gray cleats, or back to black after I've worn down the red cleats.

Just curious did you have a bad experience with speedplay? I have zeros and think they are great although im curious as to what other styles of cleats feel like.

I had some ball-of-foot numbness issues that didn't go away, so I switched and the problem got better. My only gripe with the speedplays was the cost of the cleat and how easily it would get gunked up.

And for whatever reason, they just subjectively feel more stable climbing and accelerating. Who knows. I like 'em, and they're cheap as hell from PBK...

Used to use Keo black cleats. One of my cleats went out of adjustment and I couldn't get it back to the right place, so I decided to try red cleats for the time being. I think the extra float is actually a detriment, as I find I need to make sure my foot stays in the optimal position. If I stop paying attention, I'll find my foot turned too far in the wrong direction.

I'll probably move to gray cleats, or back to black after I've worn down the red cleats.


if your foot ends up in a different position, how do you know thats not the proper position for you?

I've gradually decreased my cleat float as I've gotten more and more accustomed to what works for my feet. Right now I'm using a zero-degree Look Keo cleat, so no float. I've put in quite a few miles (for me) that way and so far no problems.

--Steve

Yellow SPD-SLs. 6* of float. My knees are ****, so I don't think I'll go for fixed cleats anytime soon. I've never pulled out of them when I didn't want to, and I'm comfy.

Speedplay X/2s... "unlimited"

+1

Speedplay X2s also. I'm missing my ACL and MCL and most of my menicus and due to the full float Speedplays offer I have had zero problems because of them. I rode Times, Looks and Dura Ace before this and had issues with the all.

Richard Byrne came up with a real gem with his pedals

Time RXS and Carbons with 5 degrees of float.

I'm using keo red's now. I've tried the black no float cleats but I couldn't get my right foot adjusted right and was causing discomfort.

what are the advantages of having no float at all?

what are the advantages of having no float at all?

In theory more power transfer - in reality, knee surgery.

I've used the red Keo cleats (9 degrees) over a year now and I love them.

I used to use Speedplay until one of the pedals came apart on a ride and I lost most of it and had to ride home on one pedal and one spindle. Somebody later told me that I should have tightened the screws on the Speedplay pedals after a few rides.

Somebody later told me that I should have tightened the screws on the Speedplay pedals after a few rides.

Thanks for the reminder on that.

Also lubing them frequently is important.

one more for speedplays, use them on both my road bikes and track bike. alot of people who tried them and didn't like them didn't ride them for very long. it definitely takes a while to get used to them. the first time i rode them my feet were all over the place and i thought i was going to crash, then i got used to it. the first time out of the saddle climbing, i was sure i was going to crash, then i got used to it. the first time sprinting, i was sure i was going to die, then i got used to it. now i don't even notice.

pedals i've used over the years-
cleats with toeclips and double straps
keywin
time
speedplay

I use the grey Keo cleats on my racing bikes. On my cross bike (my winter rig) i use the cheapest of the Crank Bros. egg beaters. I love both pedals for different reasons.

I use shimano dura ace fixed- 0 float. Used to use 6 degree but found while I was riding at times especially longer rides my foot would just start swaying and I was having a little bit of knee trouble. I got some fixed cleats and some cycling insoles for my shoes and it's like night and day. My foot feels so solid in the pedal and the power transfer seems tight. My knees feel great also. It took a couple of rides to get them dialed in correctly though.

In theory more power transfer - in reality, knee surgery.

Who's reality? I've been on zero float for over 12k miles with no issues. As with all things bike related some things work well for some people and some don't. For me once I got my cleats in the proper position it's been great.

Use the older style DA/Look pedals (PD7401) and the Red cleats, not sure but I think those were 6deg of float. Over 10 years with the same pedal/cleat combo with no problems.

yellow cleats, ultegra pedals. I've never unclipped when I didn't want to, but I've not unclipped when I did!

if your foot ends up in a different position, how do you know thats not the proper position for you?

It leads to eventual knee pain on the inside. And just from visually inspecting the motion, there is too much lateral movement.

Currently, 4.5 degrees of float because that's the type of cleat that came with the pedals. I prefer no float and will switch when the cleats wear out. (I have another set of 4.5 deg. cleats to go through first.

Shimano Dura-ace 2004 edition.

Can't seem to wear the damned things out. (Cleats are another topic)

It leads to eventual knee pain on the inside. And just from visually inspecting the motion, there is too much lateral movement.


I need that lateral movement. I found that when I rode witha fixed cleat posititon, I had trouble with my knees as well, I think the float has definatley helped me. I think maybe my foot rotates slightly as I go through a complete pedal stroke, and that the float allows that slight rotation to happen easier.

We are all built different, thats for sure. Im so used to my older Looks, im afraid to try something else and have to reposition everything. Have you guys found that difficult, switching pedal systems?

We are all built different, thats for sure.
Nothing more really need be discussed, but anyway..


Im so used to my older Looks, im afraid to try something else and have to reposition everything. Have you guys found that difficult, switching pedal systems?
In my case I switched from something with a fair amount of float (Crankbrothers...15deg) to something with even more float (Speedplays). I have only had the Speedplays a short while but I don't find them difficult to get used to at all. A lot of people report a "skating on ice" feeling as they get started with them; I can see that, 'cause they are kinda slippery.

I think if you're already used to something with float, going to something else with float is no biggie. But going from something with no float to something with float or vice-versa, I could see might take some getting used to. The main differences are going to be how you clip in and out (and personally I did not like the Look/SPD-SL type systems in this regard), but I don't think one is necessarily any better or worse in any absolute sense. Just better or worse for the individual rider in question.

I need that lateral movement. I found that when I rode witha fixed cleat posititon, I had trouble with my knees as well, I think the float has definatley helped me. I think maybe my foot rotates slightly as I go through a complete pedal stroke, and that the float allows that slight rotation to happen easier.


Your foot rotates because your alignment is off. If everything is properly lined up (hips, knees, ankles, and feet), then using fixed cleats is a non-issue in regards to injury, unless you have some pre-existing injury that prevents it. Float is to make up for improper bike fit. I was always pro-float (grew up in the fixed-is-bad generation), and when I had my bike fitting done this past July, the guy who fit me said his fittings required fixed cleats. I balked at the idea at first, until he explained it to me. Up until my left cleat moved slightly the other week, I had no problems at all....now I have to figure out where to put the cleat back to.

Also, the power transfer difference is quite noticable between fixed and floating cleats.

speedplay zeros with the float screws almost all the way out

Well....good news I think. I got my left cleat pretty much aligned identically to my right one, and just finished up a 2 hour trainer session. The knee issue appears to be gone. Now....we'll see how it holds up with a 5-6 hour ride on Sunday.

can you post the infor regarding power loss? all my searches pull up studies showing float reduces torque on the knee joint due to oonunctional rotation of the foot.... which is why i use it. speedplay says it float doesnt reduce power transmission, but im looking for more independent analysis..

Well...my info was based off using both types of cleats and going by "feel" :D. Not exactly scientific, but when sprinting, climbing, or putting out a hard effort, I just feel MUCH more "connected" to the bike with the fixed (black Look) cleats. There may be no real difference in power transmission, but it does feel much better....well, to me anyway.

I wonder what pros use float cleats. I have 6 degree SPD-SL's. Juries out if they will work out as I had no float of same for long time.
Anyone with a powertap could tell immediately.

There may be no real difference in power transmission, but it does feel much better....well, to me anyway.

This is why I do zero float as well, I just hate the 'squishy' feeling that float has. I really doubt if there is any real difference in power transmission.

can you post the infor regarding power loss? all my searches pull up studies showing float reduces torque on the knee joint due to oonunctional rotation of the foot.... which is why i use it. speedplay says it float doesnt reduce power transmission, but im looking for more independent analysis..

Ditto here. I don't buy the argument of GW's fitter that fit can eliminate the need for float. We're all built differently, few people's bodies are aligned 100% perfectly (for example, it's well known that most people have one leg slightly longer than the other). Best you can hope for is "ideal" fit -- it's not a science, people approach it differently.

If your foot naturally rotates during the pedal stroke due to biomechanics, float is appropriate. If it doesn't, then fixed is the way to go. Forcing your foot fixed all the way around the pedal stroke when it needs to move some is asking for trouble (and not necessarily in the knees).


I would also like to see some independent analysis of the power transmission issue. Seems like sole stiffness should have more effect than float.

Ditto here. I don't buy the argument of GW's fitter that fit can eliminate the need for float. We're all built differently, few people's bodies are aligned 100% perfectly (for example, it's well known that most people have one leg slightly longer than the other). Best you can hope for is "ideal" fit -- it's not a science, people approach it differently.

If your foot naturally rotates during the pedal stroke due to biomechanics, float is appropriate. If it doesn't, then fixed is the way to go. Forcing your foot fixed all the way around the pedal stroke when it needs to move some is asking for trouble (and not necessarily in the knees).


I would also like to see some independent analysis of the power transmission issue. Seems like sole stiffness should have more effect than float.

The only way you wouldn't be able to totally align your position on the bike is if you have a leg length discrepancy. Getting my fit "correct" required custom orthotics to get the job done. The before and after was literally like night and day.

The guy who fit me has worked with top pros and Olympic cyclists....has been around since the 70's (knows Eddy Merckx personally), and works with the Olympic team. I tend to think he probably has a little bit of an idea of what he's doing.

The guy who fit me has worked with top pros and Olympic cyclists....has been around since the 70's (knows Eddy Merckx personally), and works with the Olympic team. I tend to think he probably has a little bit of an idea of what he's doing.

Yeah but there are other guys with similar qualifications who say differently.

There's no one right way to approach it.

Well....it worked for me....

GW when you went with the custom orthodics did you have to change your shoe size? My size 43 Sidi's fit like they were custom made for my feet, I'm not sure that I could get a bigger foot bed in there.

For float users - how many still bother to get their cleats positioned with Fit-kit or similar?

Dial tone... I've been using the same shoes for the past 3 years, so i just keep putting new cleats in the same spot, as there is a pretty obvious mark from the old ones.. I would get new shoes.. but these are snakeskin, and they don't make them anymore.. :(

when I do get new ones, I make sure ive got the ball of my foot over the axle, and I just kinda eyeball the cleat angle by looking at the old ones, then when i get on the bike, i just ride and where ever my foot ends up, or wants to be... i adjust the cleat so that i have about half the float in either direction.

The lateral position (q-factor) is not as easy, it takes a few more miles to get it set right for me. But it ends up being almost as far away from the crank arm as possible on my right foot, and a little closer on my left. So I am not perfectly symetrical, but who is really.


As far as a fit kit goes.. I've had roughly the same position on the bike for 10 years. Center BB to the middle lowest part of the saddle is 31.375 inches for me.. I like the bars about 24.5 inches from the tip of the saddle, and the tip of the saddle is about 3.75 inches behind the bottom bracket. I say about for the last 2 becuase saddles and frame angles are all different, but this will get me close enough. Its pretty laid back, allows me scoot back and use my tremendous (lol) quads and just keep powering along. It also allows me to get my back pretty much table flat when im in the drops, or leaned out with forearms over the top. I find I make more power up on the tip of the saddle, so I may be moving it forward slightly this year.. I noticed this when I started riding my TT bike, and then found myself inching up on the road bike when the pace went way up.. I'm a firm believer in a good aero position, especially for those who are racing. even if you are super fit, and can climb all day, you will have trouble in a paceline where everyone has a good aero position, becuase your head and shoulders will still be out in the wind.. And to compensate, guys try to scrunch way down, but now they are using their muscles in a way they haven't been training for etc..

Every year we have new guys doing our training series down here, a lot of them are young and strong, and come out after a fit from the LBS, and they are sitting upright like on a hybrid or beach cruiser almost. Its easy to do when the stem is installed pointing way up etc.. Some guys with a belly, or little flexibily need that space, but some of these kids are pretty slim. If they are on our squad for the series, we square them away pronto, some of the other guys, who are after all, the enemy for a few months get no help from us, and don't notice, and get shelled when the pace gets hot, especially into the wind etc.

It takes some time for some, and is not comfortable for a while, but the 2mph increase is worth it.

I'm on my 4th pair of shoes in the last 8 years, although I still wear two of them.

In theory more power transfer - in reality, knee surgery.

If no float equals knee problems, then knee surgery must have been epidemic before clipless pedals. Cleats and toe clips held your foot very rigid and yet I never heard of rampant knee problems among racers during the days of toe clips.

I have had mild, occasional knee discomfort, not really pain, during and since my racing days, and there has been no difference in the discomfort related to float.

I always liked the secure, directly connected feel of toe clips with two straps per pedal, and no float gives that same feel.

GW when you went with the custom orthodics did you have to change your shoe size? My size 43 Sidi's fit like they were custom made for my feet, I'm not sure that I could get a bigger foot bed in there.

Actually, the first pair were too thick and my feet wouldn't fit comfortably in my shoes. I had to send them back and get the sole cut down - as it is, they're still a bit snug for my tastes, but now it's managable. My feet don't go numb or anything, so it's all good. For what it's worth, I have a pair of Time Iron CX shoes that are about 6-7 years old, and use Look adapter plates. I'd like to get new shoes, but have no clue how to transfer the cleats so that everything is the same, and also I'm concerned about stack height and possibly having to adjust my seat height.

At any rate, it's kind of a neat process - both feet got scanned and the sole gets CNC'ed to the specs, so they are literally made for my foot. A bit pricey at $250 (costs $200 for a new pair now that they have me on file), but it helped fix a lot of problems I had. The overall fitting was $400, and probably the best investment I've made.

For float users - how many still bother to get their cleats positioned with Fit-kit or similar?

I had that done back in 1993 when I first got my Trek 2100....I don't really remember much from it, other than I had to pedal with my cleats loose on my shoes, and the guy would make sure these two rod things were lined up and I was pedaling smoothly and then tightened the cleats in the position they were "supposed" to be in. This was with an SPD setup (man I hated those cleats).

Yep....looks like my cleat is pretty much in the right position again. Just a tick over 5 hours in the saddle today, and no problems. It's reallly amazing that the cleat being just a little bit off can create that much of an issue.

Oh...and today was the first time I've done over 50 miles using water instead of a sports drink. Never gonna do that again.