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I've switched this Winter to a cross bike for my training and commuting. Next year I plan to do some CX races at the end of the road season.
I've had the brakes adjusted now by a couple of mechanics. They've reversed the brake pads, and toed them in, filed them, etc. Nothing really seems to work. Within 4 or 5 days, they're squealing violently again.
I'm wondering if maybe I switched to a different pad... or ... ? Any tips are appreciated.
I have the Avid Shorty brakes on; I can't be sure what kind of pads are on there now, the only marking I can see is "RW2".
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I dealt with front brake squeal on my Kona Jake the Snake for a long time, kept adjusting stuff around and could never get any fix to last very long. By the end of my initial attempts with Kool Stop Thinline Salmon pads I had them toed in so far that only the first 3rd of the brake pad was worn.
When it came time to replace those thinline pads again I went with these Koolstop (http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index.php#Anchor-47857) cartridge style pads. No squels now unless I really lay on the brakes during a near endo inducing quick stop. The currents pads are a mix of the black and salmon compounds, but so far I've found the performance to be excellent, and the toe is in not nearly as drastic, I'm actually using most of the pad to brake now :)
That said, I can't say if my eventual solution would work for you or not.
My Avid Shorty's stopped squealing on the front only after tossing them aside and installing Paul Canti's. Seems the Avids just can't work (quietly) with some set-ups.
Hmmm, thanks for the tips guys. I'll probably look into getting those koolstops first; if that doesn't work I might try a different brake system.
I use Kool-Stop's dual compound "Mtn. Pads" with my Avid Shorty 4's. Black compound on the front of the pad, with salmon on the back. I've had great success with these-- the stock Avid pads squealed just looking at them!
You can also get Kool-Stop's "Tectronic" pad/holder set-up. You can put together single, dual, or triple compound configurations.
Using the Dual compound Kool stops got rid of the squeel, now I'm working on the violent shudder from the front fork.
I just toes them in and that stopped the squeel, and helped sone with the shudder. Another set I use Aztek pads (on Avids) and they have almost no squeel and greater stopping power. I'm going to try the Koolstops this spring.
I have a perpetual issue with front brake squeal. I was told it very well could be the flex in the carbon fork.
Well I've tried now the Shimano and the BBB pads. The BBB pads were a bit better. But I still got a bad squeal. So today I'm going to pick up some Koolstops and see how that goes.
I have a perpetual issue with front brake squeal. I was told it very well could be the flex in the carbon fork.
what brakes and what carbon fork are you using?
i'm having a continual shudder/squeal issue with my front brakes as well... i'm running avid 6's with black koolstop non-cartridge pads in the front. it's at it's "best" right now, but is still unacceptable. the pads seemed to help over the cartridge stock avid ones though. why can't i make my cross bike brake like my mountain bike or my road bike!?
i've gone throught the gambit of filing the pads, sanding the rims, toe in/toe out, killing a chicken at midnight on a full moon and drinking it's blood, etc. dark mother suggested a fork mounted cable hanger, but the two i've tried are too short to allow enough pull for the brakes to even work on my dumb fork.
i've also been considering replacing the brakes with those shimano br550's or some fancy euro wide profile ones (empella, spooky, 4za), but the avid 4's on my wife's soma work great... i just installed them, set the toe and they were done. no messing around and no black magic. so i'm wondering if it really is my brakes or even their setup at all.
as a side note, does anyone have any input/suggestion on the braking advantages and disadvantages of wide vs low profile canti's and their different amounts of mechanical advantage?
NOW!! i'm really starting to think it's my dumb fork and not my dumb brakes. it's the stock aluminum fork on my douglas.... while the easton ultra-light tubing affords a nice light frame, i think it's makes for a crappy cross fork. when i brake mildly hard, that thing is all over the place. the avids do great on my wife's steel bike. so i've been considering a steel fork or perhaps a carbon one. i've considered the ritchey wcs due to how light AND affordable it is, or the even the ritchey comp or a winwood, but i'm also thinking of just getting a steel one. does anyone have thoughts on this? steel is real, i know i know. every other bike i own is steel.
sorry for the looooooong ramble, but my point is that 'cross bike braking issues definitely incorporate SO MANY elements to get them to work properly; it can be endless tweaking and fully frustrating when they don't work.
perhaps we need a sticky at the top of this forum with brake issues and the black magic associated with dialing them in.
I have a perpetual issue with front brake squeal. I was told it very well could be the flex in the carbon fork.
mmmm..........new theory......I like that......but I had the same issue with a San Jose earlier this year and a Gunner the year before, both has steel forks.......Next theory......
what brakes and what carbon fork are you using?
i'm having a continual shudder/squeal issue with my front brakes as well... i'm running avid 6's with black koolstop non-cartridge pads in the front. it's at it's "best" right now, but is still unacceptable. the pads seemed to help over the cartridge stock avid ones though. why can't i make my cross bike brake like my mountain bike or my road bike!?
i've gone throught the gambit of filing the pads, sanding the rims, toe in/toe out, killing a chicken at midnight on a full moon and drinking it's blood, etc. dark mother suggested a fork mounted cable hanger, but the two i've tried are too short to allow enough pull for the brakes to even work on my dumb fork.
i've also been considering replacing the brakes with those shimano br550's or some fancy euro wide profile ones (empella, spooky, 4za), but the avid 4's on my wife's soma work great... i just installed them, set the toe and they were done. no messing around and no black magic. so i'm wondering if it really is my brakes or even their setup at all.
as a side note, does anyone have any input/suggestion on the braking advantages and disadvantages of wide vs low profile canti's and their different amounts of mechanical advantage?
NOW!! i'm really starting to think it's my dumb fork and not my dumb brakes. it's the stock aluminum fork on my douglas.... while the easton ultra-light tubing affords a nice light frame, i think it's makes for a crappy cross fork. when i brake mildly hard, that thing is all over the place. the avids do great on my wife's steel bike. so i've been considering a steel fork or perhaps a carbon one. i've considered the ritchey wcs due to how light AND affordable it is, or the even the ritchey comp or a winwood, but i'm also thinking of just getting a steel one. does anyone have thoughts on this? steel is real, i know i know. every other bike i own is steel.
sorry for the looooooong ramble, but my point is that 'cross bike braking issues definitely incorporate SO MANY elements to get them to work properly; it can be endless tweaking and fully frustrating when they don't work.
perhaps we need a sticky at the top of this forum with brake issues and the black magic associated with dialing them in.
I almost brought the Spookys the other week at the LBS.....but they were red and would clash with my silver Van Dessel.
I teied some Ritchy Red pads 3 years ago on a Jamis....never remember a sqeel at all, but they were a pair of retro LX brakes. I still think it's a pad combination.....I'm going to change out the default pads and put some Aztek's on this weekend......Will report back on the results
Note: The goofy "euro" cantis have no mechanism for adjusting toe.
How is toe accomplished? With the careful application of a 12-inch adjustabe wrench. No kidding-- you have to actually bend the brake arm. A little too "retro" for me.
Note: The goofy "euro" cantis have no mechanism for adjusting toe.
How is toe accomplished? With the careful application of a 12-inch adjustabe wrench. No kidding-- you have to actually bend the brake arm. A little too "retro" for me.
that has kept me from springing for the euro's or paul's. i also prefer the spring tension adjustment setup a lot better on the newer low profile ones like shimano, avid, etc.
I have the same issue with my ZeroG front brakes. I am using the pads that came with the brakeset on Mavic Kysrium SSC SL rims. The squealing is very loud.
1) Is this common?
2) Or should I just live with it and think of it as a safety warning system of letting other riders or pedestrians know I am behind them?
The ZeroG's came with two types of pads one is I beleive made of a blue color cork type material the other is one is red in color which is on the bike now.
Any comments or suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks
Installed the koolstop black/salmon cartridges today. We'll see how that works.
that has kept me from springing for the euro's or paul's.
And I quote from paulcomp.com
"On this form we integrated modern adjustment features. The pads are modern v-brake style with the very easy to use spherical style setting washers. The pads reside in a slot for vertical positioning of the brake shoe. (In fact the original Mafacs are adjusted using a hammer and a great big Crescent wrench)"
what brakes and what carbon fork are you using?
avid 4s and scott's own carbon fork
i should mention the squeal comes with a shudder at higher speeds
Ok...I put the Aztek pads on a set of Avid4 brakes over the weekend. after 20 miles of riding a hilly course, there was not one squeal and the stoping power was great......This was on my Jake with the steel fork. Think I am going to hae to make the change over to my Van-Dessel next.
Installed the koolstop black/salmon cartridges today. We'll see how that works.
So far so good on the Koolstops; but we haven't had any rain here since I installed them.
I'm going to try the Aztecs or Jagwire.. After yesterdays ride, my brakes were so loud that every dog within earshot was howling with my front brake..
I eliminated a persistent squeal last week by scrubbing the rims -- this was after toeing in, sanding the pads, eliminating vibration. I must have run through something incredibly disgusting and sticky because it took a lot of elbow grease to get the crap off. Literally, I could feel where the pads would have been skipping as I cleaned it. I used Goo-Gone and steel wool. Bike stops on a dime now, no squeal.
I was skeptical about the role of carbon forks in front brake squeal and shudder. That's been an issue recently with me. I re-toed in the brakes (Avid Shorty 4s with kool-stop black/salmon MTB long pads) this morning on my stock '06 Jamis Nova with carbon fork (manufacturer unknown), but they were still squealing. Then I did a hard brake on the way into work and looked at the fork ends.
Holy crap! They were whipping fore and aft by about a cm or two! That explains the shudder; I still don't know about the squeal, though.
I was skeptical about the role of carbon forks in front brake squeal and shudder. That's been an issue recently with me. I re-toed in the brakes (Avid Shorty 4s with kool-stop black/salmon MTB long pads) this morning on my stock '06 Jamis Nova with carbon fork (manufacturer unknown), but they were still squealing. Then I did a hard brake on the way into work and looked at the fork ends.
Holy crap! They were whipping fore and aft by about a cm or two! That explains the shudder; I still don't know about the squeal, though.
Might be an issue.....I was just our for a ride on my Van Dessel (Carbon Fork), Avid 6's with the std pads toed in.......shudder and squeal the whole ride. But on my Jake with teh aztek pads.......not a problem. I'm going to stop and get the aztek pads for the Van Dessel this afternoon.
I've had the exact same issues with front brake squeal with my Avid Shorty 4s. I'm glad I did this search, since I don't ever actually look in the cyclocross forum.
Anyhow, mine are set up properly, painstaking aligned, with near textbook toe-in. Still squeals, much like the OP's. I'm now very eager to hear how the new brake pads go, because I'm about out of my own options here.
Might be an issue.....I was just our for a ride on my Van Dessel (Carbon Fork), Avid 6's with the std pads toed in.......shudder and squeal the whole ride. But on my Jake with teh aztek pads.......not a problem. I'm going to stop and get the aztek pads for the Van Dessel this afternoon.
Walked into the LBS.....looked at the Aztek's.....reached over and picked up a new pair of 4ZA brakes instead.......Avid 6's are for sale now......
Update : There have been no squeal's at all with the new brakes, and also no shudder on with the carbon fork. Also the 4ZA's appear to be made by Frogglegs......
{I use Kool-Stop's dual compound "Mtn. Pads" with my Avid Shorty 4's. Black compound on the front of the pad, with salmon on the back. I've had great success with these-- the stock Avid pads squealed just looking at them!}
+1
Keep the Koolstops clean and toed-in a bit and you should be in good shape. I'm running them with Avid Shorty 4s on Lemond Poprad.
Well koolstops didn't do it. Started squealing earlier this week. Really don't know what to do now. Maybe install new brakes. Major pain in the *****.
in germany a lot of riders use mini-v braes
they dont squeal
forks dont shatter
Elmar--
What are "mini-v" brakes? I haven't seen these anywhere.
in germany a lot of riders use mini-v braes
they dont squeal
forks dont shatter
Elmar--
What are "mini-v" brakes? I haven't seen these anywhere.
i've been seeing them on ebay a lot lately. here's an auction for some. (http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Tektro-RX5-Road-Bike-Mini-V-Brakes-2-Pairs-Silver_W0QQitemZ220035354567QQcmdZViewItem) i *think* they work with short pull levers.
mini v-brakes are in my opinion the best cclo-cross brakes
in the last 27years ,i tried everything
now my second cc-season with mini-v is over ,and i am still satisfied
i have got a shop in germany and we sold more than 150 sets ,all clients seem to be lucky
adavantages:
-no for fork shuttering
-no screaming
-they brake on every rim in every condition,with nearly every brakepad !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-they look like the ones you see on ebay,best lenght is 85 mm
-no brakepad changing when riding other rims
-no "which brakepad fits on rim xxx testing "
-even supercheap ones work
-they are cheaper
-they work similar to road brakes, so you dont need time to get customed to the brakes
disadantages
-you need adjustable pipes ,and wheelchanging takes 2 or 3 seconds more
-the pads are a little closer to the rim ,similar to modern canti-brakes like avid ,tektro orx or shimanos br -m 550
-they are a little heavier, but my tuned ones are now on 130 gramms
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