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I am kind of ashamed.
JB and I are riding the other afternoon, it is windy and starting to rain, the roads are wet. We are waiting at a light at a very busy intersection and when the light turns green, the car next to us decides she would rather have our lane. Now, she sees us, for sure because we just sat next to her car for 3 minutes. She just about takes him out with her car.
At the next stop, I jump off my bike and begin yelling at her. She has a practiced blank look on her face, and won't look at me. I take my hand and smack her window next to her head very hard. "four tours in Iraq, and you want to kill him with your CAR?!!"
I almost thought the police would show up at my house. I am not sure why I snapped, I have never done it in a car. I am feeling that this response is getting worse, not better. I am giving up traffic rides for awhile.
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Nothing wrong with letting a driver know that they made a mistake. I like the comment. It lets her know that she almost hit a person who is defending our country. Your outburst of emotion may pay off. Maybe she'll respect the next bicyclist that she sees.
Don’t feel bad for a second. 4 tours defending our freedom / safety and some rude driver puts his life at risk while cycling!
You did good! Thank you (one less motorist I might have to educate)
When coward bullies like her get away with it once, they do it again until someone gets in their face.
Believe me, many of us know just how you felt and reacted. The slap on the window really does work.
JB, Thanks for your service.
JB, Thanks for your service.
+1 for sure. Thanks. 4 tours? Holy crap.
Don't sweat it...we all have our human moments. Perhaps this was hers as well.
Double up on your traffic communication and courtesy as penance over the next few rides and in no time you will feel right as rain.
"four tours in Iraq, and you want to kill him with your CAR?!!"
...I am not sure why I snapped...
Four tours in Iraq. That's why you snapped. That sounds terribly stressful. He's supposed to be home safe now.
Most of us have had our psycho moments. Generally, it's a bad thing to go psycho. It's physically dangerous and can get you arrested. It can also ruin your mood. A smile and wave is usually the best response.
That said, I can see the benefit if more drivers feared that the cyclist they were about to pass might just go psycho if a driver passed too closely.
Those moments, while powerful and sometimes disturbing are very natural. Almost getting wiped on your bike is alot more real to the mind than almost having a fender bender. Take all the adrenaline of the incident, stew for a block..and you are perfectly justified in forcefully airing your anger. When a driver is trying not to see you, you know they know....and they are merely wishing you weren't there. I've had a few of these over the years and I'll hope you may have scared her into paying better attention. Hey don't be ashamed, it's not like you broke every glass surface of her car with your u-lock....:o
I yell out their license number, especially when they do something illegal. If there is any justice, the driver's will spend the next few days worrying that I contacted the police who somehow have the time to track them down and give them a ticket.
it's things like that, that let you know you're human
don't sweat it
You did ok...haoles have a right to the road too. ;)
When i was an avid motorcyclist i used to carry rock fishing weights( one under each chronometer). they are about a lb each. I had a woman once cut me off on the freeeway, Thought she might not have seen me then when i gt beside her she flipped me the bird without even looking! so i slowed down a bit just beside her quarter panel gave a little space, loaded up & fired the ammunition took out her rear side view window then wound up bike & vrroooomm! poof i was gone!
When i was an avid motorcyclist i used to carry rock fishing weights( one under each chronometer). they are about a lb each. I had a woman once cut me off on the freeeway, Thought she might not have seen me then when i gt beside her she flipped me the bird without even looking! so i slowed down a bit just beside her quarter panel gave a little space, loaded up & fired the ammunition took out her rear side view window then wound up bike & vrroooomm! poof i was gone!
Yeah, that works on a motorcycle where your ability to accelerate coupled with narrow size allows you a getaway... back in the day my fellow motorcyclists would carry used spark plugs in their jacket pockets for the very same reason.
Sure wouldn't work on a bicycle though.
Everyone "snaps" sooner or later. Everyone has that point where you just can't bear it any longer, and you have tell the idiot off.
I'm a total zen cyclist, no matter what happens I never get phased. My cycling buddy however is the exact opposite, he blows up at every other car. But this probably means I'm just repressing it and I'm going to blow up bad one day.
i ha a rage before now i figure whats the point? I started biking to end anger
Yeah, that works on a motorcycle where your ability to accelerate coupled with narrow size allows you a getaway... back in the day my fellow motorcyclists would carry used spark plugs in their jacket pockets for the very same reason.
Sure wouldn't work on a bicycle though.
Yeah well, best just to shrug it all off. Cause all repercussions will lead to is serious injury, death or long stint in prison. Like my ole gran pappy youz te tao me,, "If yah can't stanz de heat denz git out de fia."
Gots me spinach on.....:rolleyes:
Four tours in Iraq. That's why you snapped. That sounds terribly stressful. He's supposed to be home safe now.
Bingo...
No issues with you snapping. Don't stop road riding though. Think about why you got upset (beyond the obvious) and .... ah screw it. You know what I am going to say and probably thought it anyways. Main thing is he and you are ok. Good luck.
wow, I thought I would get spanked. last thing we need is motorists hating us.
So...on today's ride I was thinking about this. Because I used to think cyclists were sorta of angry people (SoCal) but of course now, I see why! So...I try and give nods and be nice to drivers that are being considerate...waiting for me to pass, etc. I have been getting really angry at motorists and the only way I can turn it around is to maybe encourage the "good" ones.
I did hit her car really, really hard. You just have no power out there. I can understand if they don't see you. It is the ones that look right at you and do it that make me nuts.
I was kidding a little about post traumatic stress by association, but you hear of these guys running missions, IEDs and then coming home and getting hit by a bus.
Don't stop road riding though. This might sound crazy, but it is addictive, like a video game, dodging obstacles. I had a good ride today!
I find reading some of these threads brings out more anger in me than actually cycling does.
yea, I know what you mean I think. I solo dive and sometimes all the accident threads on my other forum make me start to be paranoid. It can ruin your mo jo.
... I was kidding a little about post traumatic stress by association, ...
Maybe kidding, but it is a real problem. A lot of time the family and friends get stressed out more than the deployed service members.
... but you hear of these guys running missions, IEDs and then coming home and getting hit by a bus. ...
That is the thought that hit me when I read your OP - 4 tours, comes home and some idiot driver hits him.
wow, I thought I would get spanked. last thing we need is motorists hating us.
Catherine, no motorist in their right mind, and even most of the crazy ones, is going to hold a grudge against a cyclist who says what you said to that woman. You'd probably even give Lars Larson, Portland's extremely conservative shock jock who detests cyclists, pause.
We all lose it at times, and you were certainly primed to go off under the circumstances. No one was hurt, and maybe you scared that woman for the better. Don't sweat it, and get back in traffic! :)
so...CB HI, I have been only riding a couple months. Do you think the kaleaniole highway is dangerous?
JB says he thinks it is okay, because lots of cyclists, there IS a bike lane, etc. Some of the busy intercections curdle my blood a bit. I am improving, but rolling through the middle of the busier ones is a little freaky at times, especially trying to get clipped in on the second foot fast enough to power through, yield to the oncoming, and then get out of the way, before the light changes.
when the lights change in the states do you get a four way red for a few seconds or it is red/green timing?
when the lights change in the states do you get a four way red for a few seconds or it is red/green timing?
LOL that is pretty much a light by light question.
Bear in mind that "in the states" means that each and every state has their own laws and their own subtle way of doing things... for instance in Oregon motorists are required to stay out of bike lanes and only cross them at the last moment, whereas in California (the next state down) motorists are required to merge into BL as if they are another lane.
Some states have 3 foot rules, others do not, some states consider bicycles vehicles, others do not. So there are a real mix up of rules and ways to deal with traffic.
There is an overall guiding manual for all the states, but the states pick and chose what they want to implement... heck even cities pick and chose.
For instance the "Cyclists Use Full Lane" sign that is often posted here on BF, is in San Francisco, but San Diego will not use that sign as it is not in the "guiding manual."
So are all the rules/laws/implementations the same across Canada? Heck, I understand the language requirements are different.
Nothing wrong with letting a driver know that they made a mistake. I like the comment. It lets her know that she almost hit a person who is defending our country. Your outburst of emotion may pay off. Maybe she'll respect the next bicyclist that she sees.
don't hold your breath. I mean if she didn't respect one cyclist, why would she suddenly start?
What you did sounds perfecting fine with me. I had a bit of rage this weekend myself but it was over a dog chasing me out in the country. So I yelled to the owner that was out by his truck he needs to have this thing on a leash.
Also, because of the situation you found yourself in (we have all been in) I now ride with a whistle. It was actually advertised as a rape whistle its very loud. It does not have the ball inside that would get all gummed up with spit but rather just an air space. I wear it on a long necklace and when I am around cars carry it in my mouth then when I hit the bike path I just let it hang on the necklace. It has save me more times then I can count when drivers begin to day dream and forget Im next to them. I highly recommend it to everyone to pick one up.
JB and I are riding the other afternoon, it is windy and starting to rain, the roads are wet. We are waiting at a light at a very busy intersection and when the light turns green, the car next to us decides she would rather have our lane. Now, she sees us, for sure because we just sat next to her car for 3 minutes. She just about takes him out with her car.
I don't get it. How did she manage to "just about" take him out? Cars cannot move laterally without also moving forward. What exactly happened when the light turned green? Did he and the car start moving forward side-by-side at about the same speed?
Whether I'm driving or riding my bike, when the light turns green, I either gun it or let the other guy go first, but I don't proceed next to them through the intersection. That's being in each other's blind spots.
The driver was clearly in the wrong, but I've been honked at a few times in my life for changing lanes into someone in my blind spot, and I certainly did not intend any disprespect in doing so, and would not feel like I deserved to be treated with disrespect for doing so. Rage is never appropriate in a situation like this.
And I don't mean to sound like I'm defending the motorist for what they did. As far as I can tell she changed lanes while still in the intersection (which is wrong whether there is anyone there or not), and violated JB's ROW in the process. But I don't think doing that makes her an evil person that deserves getting her car pounded by someone in a rage. No one deserves that.
Nothing wrong with letting a driver know that they made a mistake. I like the comment. It lets her know that she almost hit a person who is defending our country. Your outburst of emotion may pay off. Maybe she'll respect the next bicyclist that she sees.
Only there were no WMD in Iraq (not counting chemical weapons precursors sold them by Washington), & no terrorists (guerrillas from another point of view) until Bush started the war. See Iraq Vets Against the War.
Only there were no WMD in Iraq
actually, there were. But...you would have to see it to believe it and I can't show you the pictures. Why didn't it get on the news? I cannot explain that and neither can anybody else I know.
WMD are not what kills our guys anyway...so why talk about it? Snipers, small arms fire and mostly IEDs kill them. And maime them. In fact, only because of the quick communication we enjoy now, and the rapid medevac to a trauma center...are the fatalities as low as they are. Many, many of the amputees would have died in previous wars. He carries a one handed tourniquet, he can apply himself. (maybe we should take it on the bike. Or the quick clot powder, and we can chuck some on ourselves when she leaves us in a puddle.)
Cars cannot move laterally without also moving forward. What exactly happened when the light turned green? Did he and the car start moving forward side-by-side at about the same speed?
yes, he was going straight (on the inside) and she decided she would like to turn left from the wrong lane, in front of us. Uh, through him.
I am not sure about the three seconds. Sometimes I get out there and it seems people step on the gas when the light changes, without noticing I am still "out there"
I must say, we have some very unique intersections here in Honolulu.
actually, there were. But...you would have to see it to beleive it and I can't show you the pictures. Why didn't it get on the news? I cannot explain that and neither can anybody else I know.
From a friend of mine, that leans very far to the right; there were WMD found in Iraq... and there were photos of them. His take on why there was so little press was "due to the liberal nature of the media." He hates AP and Rueters, and feels they are both lying liberal sources.
The WMD that were found were said to be quite old by some investigaters and nothing near the quantity that posed any kind of real threat to the US or any local ally.
Here is one of the reports:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-imagery4.htm
Another report, which is now stale on the net, contained this "massive list" of WMD:
Iraq War: The "Bush lied, people died" mantra used by the left as an all-purpose argument against the war looks pretty threadbare these days. Especially after the CIA revealed the U.S. has found 500 WMD in Iraq.
We can thank Rep. Peter Hoekstra (news, bio, voting record), chairman of the House Committee on Intelligence, and Sen. Rick Santorum (news, bio, voting record), for these stunning new revelations. Tired of the exaggerations and distortions in the debate over Iraq, the two senators asked National Intelligence Director John Negroponte for "key points" from a recent intelligence report on chemical weapons in Iraq.
What the CIA revealed is alarming:
Since 2003 Coalition forces have found about 500 weapons armed with mustard or sarin nerve agents -- that is, WMD.
More WMD are likely to be found.
Pre- Gulf War chemical weapons could be sold on the black market, and might be used outside of Iraq.
It's likely that missiles containing both sarin -- so potent, one drop can kill a human -- and mustard gas remain.
Though "degraded," the weapons that were found "remain hazardous and potentially lethal."
Terrorists and Iraqi insurgent groups want to acquire and use chemical weapons.
Any rational observer would have to admit the claim that "Bush lied" about WMD no longer holds water. Indeed, among the many rationales for going to war against
Saddam Hussein (see editorial below), WMD now look to be among the most easily proved.
Yet, despite what appear to be substantial amounts of WMD in Iraq, opponents of the war and their media allies won't be deterred.
Along with more documentation of Saddam's WMD program comes a new spin, perfectly summed up in a blase Washington Post report Thursday: "Last night, intelligence officials reaffirmed that the shells were old and were not the suspected weapons of mass destruction sought in Iraq after the 2003 invasion."
Let's be very clear: WMD are WMD. That these weapons can kill thousands, even millions, is what matters -- not what vintage they are. True, these were not of post-Gulf War vintage. But so what? Under the sanctions regime imposed by the
United Nations, Saddam was required to report all WMD and decommission them. He didn't -- which was a big reason why we invaded.
Let's also be clear that this does not mean Saddam's only WMD were from the Gulf War era. Remember that the U.N., in a March 6, 2003, report on "unresolved" WMD issues with Saddam, said a massive amount of WMD material existed but was "unaccounted for."
The deadly trove included: 6,526 chemical bombs; 550 mustard gas shells; 2,062 tons of mustard gas precursors; 8,445 liters of anthrax; growth media for thousands and thousands of liters of germ agents such as anthrax, botulism and clostridium; 3.9 tons of VX nerve agent, and 15,000 chemical weapons. That's a lot of death, and it doesn't include Saddam's well-documented nuclear program, which was intended to build a workable bomb.
As we and others have said repeatedly, Saddam had these programs on cruise control and was just waiting for the end of sanctions --as many people were urging -- to resume production.
"Saddam pursued a strategy to maintain a capability to return to WMD production after sanctions were lifted by preserving assets and expertise," said the CIA's Duelfer Report, issued in 2004. "(W)e have clear evidence of his intent to resume WMD production as soon as sanctions were lifted."
That includes, by the way, ballistic missile and nuclear weapons research, all funded by Iraq's enormous oil wealth and fueled by Saddam's unbounded willingness to starve, murder and imprison his own people to achieve his dreams of military supremacy.
This isn't just our opinion, but that of former Iraqi Gen. Georges Sada. Sada claims Saddam spirited WMD labs and material out of the country in early 2003, before the war began. He used a fleet of planes and trucks, and the logistical help of the Russians.
That Saddam had weapons of mass destruction, intended to use them and wanted to make more -- and deadlier -- ones is now beyond dispute. It's simply too well-documented.
With what we know now about WMD, it's high time for White House critics to retire their foolish "Bush lied" slogan. And while they're at it, they should stop calling for us to withdraw from a war we're actually winning.
My friend also contends that MIGs were found, buried, as well as mobile labs to make more WMD. (the latter which another group identified as fertilizer trucks...)
Who knows the real truth.
Interesting twist this thread has taken....
Lets make a list of countries with weapons of mass destruction . . .
Betcha most of you live in one.
Anyway, anyone want to talk about cycling? or is that dead now?
Really what I think happened to the OP is that all the stress from her sweetie being in harms way came out at once when after surviving for ages in a war zone, he was almost taken out by a car and someone being careless.
From a friend of mine, that leans very far to the right; there were WMD found in Iraq... and there were photos of them. His take on why there was so little press was "due to the liberal nature of the media." He hates AP and Rueters, and feels they are both lying liberal sources.
The WMD that were found were said to be quite old by some investigaters and nothing near the quantity that posed any kind of real threat to the US or any local ally.
Here is one of the reports:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/al_qa_qaa-imagery4.htm
Another report, which is now stale on the net, contained this "massive list" of WMD:
My friend also contends that MIGs were found, buried, as well as mobile labs to make more WMD. (the latter which another group identified as fertilizer trucks...)
Who knows the real truth.
Your friend needs to adjust his meds.
Only there were no WMD in Iraq (not counting chemical weapons precursors sold them by Washington), & no terrorists (guerrillas from another point of view) until Bush started the war. See Iraq Vets Against the War.
What does this have to do with the thread??:rolleyes:
This thread is full of irony, especially the part about JB fighting 'for a good cause' for this country. Oh if you only knew. But lets not bring P&R into this subject. Well it's too late now. Mods where are ya!...
so...CB HI, I have been only riding a couple months. Do you think the kaleaniole highway is dangerous?
JB says he thinks it is okay, because lots of cyclists, there IS a bike lane, etc. Some of the busy intercections curdle my blood a bit. I am improving, but rolling through the middle of the busier ones is a little freaky at times, especially trying to get clipped in on the second foot fast enough to power through, yield to the oncoming, and then get out of the way, before the light changes.
Hi, sorry to take awhile to reply, but I am on the Big Island for work and have to use the libraury computer for now. So excuse any Typos please.
I consider Kalanianiole Highway very safe and I am one of the guys that thinks bike lanes make you less safe. The # of cyclist that use the route is a definite plus. Motorist on that road should always expect to see cyclist. With only 2 months riding, it is reasonable that you are still a little nervous, but cycling really is safer than almost anyone believes. Just keep riding the routes you feel comfortable on for now, and with time your confidence will grow.
Just remember that some of us (so called crazies) ride Kipapa Gulch and Nimitz Highway everyday, and the most any motorist has done to me since 1982 is a sore wrist and a little road rash. Each time the motorist broke the law and violated my ROW too close for my escape route to fully work. So collisions are very rare and very few collisions are serious. Most times we end up worrying about our bikes more than ourselves.
Stay visible, follow the Rules of the Road, use lights at dusk/night and watch for the unexpected, then you will be fine.
Also, don't try to clip your second foot in on the very first pedal stroke. Use the arch of the foot for a couple of pedal stroke to get your speed up and then clip in the second foot. Many experienced cyclist have a hard time clipping in on the first stroke anyway.
I am kind of ashamed.
JB and I are riding the other afternoon, it is windy and starting to rain, the roads are wet. We are waiting at a light at a very busy intersection and when the light turns green, the car next to us decides she would rather have our lane. Now, she sees us, for sure because we just sat next to her car for 3 minutes. She just about takes him out with her car.
At the next stop, I jump off my bike and begin yelling at her. She has a practiced blank look on her face, and won't look at me. I take my hand and smack her window next to her head very hard. "four tours in Iraq, and you want to kill him with your CAR?!!"
I almost thought the police would show up at my house. I am not sure why I snapped, I have never done it in a car. I am feeling that this response is getting worse, not better. I am giving up traffic rides for awhile.
Catherine, I am a very peaceful, loving person in general. :) But the very same thing happened to me, and I have a logical explanation for it (although the part about feeling ashamed goes with the territory.)
First, let me say, don't give up road riding just because you snapped. Be aware of why it happened so you can control yourself next time.
When you're riding, your adrenaline is stimulating you to a degree. That alone can make you snap emotionally before you realize it. It's almost as if your accelerator is mashed to the floor, and your brakes aren't working quickly enough. Add to that the fact that it's tons of steel against your flesh and bone, and it's a recipe for revenge!
I had a fella squeeze me as I was coming to a stop behind a motorist at a light. He basically took my spot, but I was already stopped so I really had nowhere to go. Anyway, this made me mad. When the light changed, I had the chance to pass on the right (not a great idea, but doable.) As I did, he squeezed me again and I had to run over into the grass to avoid his mirror.
I jumped off my bike and ran back to his car, came over to the driver side (he had tinted windows) and started pointing where I thought his face would be behind the glass, shouting and telling him he was in a lot of trouble. When he didn't roll down the window (of course he wouldn't with a maniac shouting at him,) I punched the glass where I thought his face was. I stomped off, got back on my bike and resumed my commute.
Later, when my reptile brain was back in flatline and my human reason took back over, I started to see how Mr. Hyde had taken over. Like you, I began wondering when the police were going to show up.
It can happen to the nicest person. :)
I was kidding a little about post traumatic stress by association, but you hear of these guys running missions, IEDs and then coming home and getting hit by a bus.
It sounds ironic, but in fact its just the numbers. Automobiles kill 45,000 Americans every years. That's like fighting a Nam every year. Terrorists can't touch these numbers. But this count, the "Axis of evil" should be Ford, GM, and Chrysler.
And yet no outrage. No "war on terroristic driving". No trillion dollar program to end the tragedy. <shrug>
It sounds ironic, but in fact its just the numbers. Automobiles kill 45,000 Americans every years. That's like fighting a Nam every year. Terrorists can't touch these numbers. But this count, the "Axis of evil" should be Ford, GM, and Chrysler.
And yet no outrage. No "war on terroristic driving". No trillion dollar program to end the tragedy. <shrug>
some stricter traffic laws and harsher punishments would be nice. make driving more of a privilege and less of a right.
I consider Kalanianiole Highway very safe and I am one of the guys that thinks bike lanes make you less safe. The # of cyclist that use the route is a definite plus. Motorist on that road should always expect to see cyclist. With only 2 months riding, it is reasonable that you are still a little nervous,
thanks, love you.
I want to believe this. Actually, it's getting better as my anxiety comes down. My last bit of dread seems to be coming from the blind driveways that cars sometimes pull out of into the bike lane to see the traffic.
Sorry about the war talk but "he started it" and I just don't let to let this go by every time as though its a given truth, by somebody who probably is sitting on his sofa (or his bike) the last five years. (and sorry for the stereotype)
Yes, I get the numbers on the car fatalities, I flew for an air ambulance and have landed in the freeway and seen the carnage. You are right, most people don't really get this reality on their radar, in the scope of other risks. (they don't get CV disease either)
Catherine, I am a very peaceful, loving person in general. Me too, LBM. I think you are onto something with the adrenaline and the fight or flight physiology going on. In fact many overzealous cop beatings after a chase have been attributed to this, now that I think of it. You're brilliant!
My last bit of dread seems to be coming from the blind driveways that cars sometimes pull out of into the bike lane to see the traffic.
You are smart to be concerned about the blind driveways. That and intersections are the higher risk areas for cyclist. Simply signal and merge into the travel lane as you approach a blind driveway or intersection where you need to be more visible to traffic. It makes it easier for motorist to see you, gives you more maneuver room, reduces right and left hooks. Once you are clear, you can move back into the bike lane.
If you use this VC method, someone will eventually yell at you. Just recognize their ignorance and continue to enjoy your ride.
Simply signal and merge into the travel lane as you approach a blind driveway
these are the nuggets of wisdom I am here for. For some reason, this had not occurred to me.
So...do you signal with your arm? duh...what else. I see these driveways and wonder "what would I do if a car pulled out right here, right now?" I don't think a horn would help. Okay...I will practice this. Do you look over your shoulder? duh... "fledgling, I'm a fledgling"
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