Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

The really cheap department store bikes, or the Raleigh and the Schwinn?

Both...Schwinn is a name only with the name being held by Pacific Cycles. They have bikes made at plants in China (as does Raleigh). Problem is that they sell Schwinns at Target and WalMart but they are not the same Schwinns that are found on the current Schwinn website. And from what hands on experience I have had with them they are built using lower grade equipment and shoddy workmanship. BTW Pacific Cycles (http://www.pacific-cycle.com/ourstory/) is actually a holding company, they manufacture nothing. They have it manufactured at whatever factory that is going to give them the best profit margin.

Aaron:)

I got a chance to look at some department store cruisers over the weekend. With my weight on them, they look as though they'd fold when I hit the first bump. :-|

English 3 speed inspired .....ok its a Japanese 8 speed

I submit this is a worthy option. 8 sp, simple friction shifter so not a lot more maintainence than an internal hup (my opinion)

This can be done pretty easily, get a 70/80 road bike, put on a taller stem, different bar, simple mountain style brake levers, fenders, drop the front derailler (simplfy the lines)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/squirtdad/IMG_0248.jpg

Actually it was a neutral position so you could switch to the other cluster in the 4 and 5 speed hubs. With things properly adjusted it did not cause problems. With things not properly adjusted....

The consumer safety types most likely have made them not make newer hubs that way.

It was only the 5 speed hubs that had the other cluster, and this "feature" was there before those were introduced. I believe, actually, that all internal gear hubs will slip if maladjusted, but adjustment has been made more idiot-proof. I had eternal trouble adjusting my AW's til I read Sheldon's explanation "If it slips in 1st, you need to slacken off the tension, if it slips in second, you need to tighten it". It made perfect sense, and now I can dial in an AW hub in 30 seconds.

I have a Nishki 3 speed "American" shimano internal. A Raleigh Superbe, 3 speed along with my regular vintage Schwinn Paramount and a mountain bike. I have found they all have a use depending on where I'm riding. Bought all my 3 speeds at yard sales. Didn't pay more than $30 bucks. Well worth the price.

When your speed drops to 3-4 mph it is just as quick and takes a lot less energy to get off and push.

As I mentioned in another thread, the bikes were not used by athletes but by everyday Joes, and Jills, for transportation. The object was not to get there as quickly as possible or to get a lot of exercise, but to get there with as little exertion as possible and preferably without getting all sweaty in the process. Typically the bikes were designed and geared to be pedaled in the 30-60 rpm range, not the 100-200 range that modern sport riders expect, or even the 60-120 range I preferred as a commuter.

As a kid in Detroit I had my bike geared 44/16 (correction 46/16) (the LBS did not have a 14 tooth cog) and locked into high; the only place I had to get off and push were the expressway overpasses. I could not do that today (actually 15 years ago before disability), but then I weigh a bit more than I did back then too hauling an extra 100 lbs or so seems to make quite a difference.

I remember my bible back then was a book published in England for enthusiasts about 1950. It had a lot of interesting stuff in it. For instance it recommended using an odd and and even numbered sprocket claiming that they chain would last longer. Another recommendation was using paraffin wax melted on the stove with the chain immersed in it as a chain lubricant and swapping two chains freshly cleaned and lubed weekly. How many of us think twice about having to buy a new chain? I wish I could remember the name of that book I would try to find a copy.



I think I had a book in that same series, a later edition perhaps. When I got into bikes and bike racing shortly after 1960 there was no good serious bike material available in the USA, so i imported some books from England. I also subscribed to the English magazine called "Cycling and Mopeds". they advertised and maybe published the little books - booklets actually - that i bought.
Up until a few years ago I still had one of them, the bike repair booklet - and yes, parafin baths were what they said to do with chains.

English 3 speed inspired .....ok its a Japanese 8 speed

I submit this is a worthy option. 8 sp, simple friction shifter so not a lot more maintainence than an internal hup (my opinion)

This can be done pretty easily, get a 70/80 road bike, put on a taller stem, different bar, simple mountain style brake levers, fenders, drop the front derailler (simplfy the lines)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/squirtdad/IMG_0248.jpg



Rear derailleur only is my favorite design. I still think that the shift lever should be on the downtube where it belongs, though.

I think I had a book in that same series, a later edition perhaps. When I got into bikes and bike racing shortly after 1960 there was no good serious bike material available in the USA, so i imported some books from England. I also subscribed to the English magazine called "Cycling and Mopeds". they advertised and maybe published the little books - booklets actually - that i bought.
Up until a few years ago I still had one of them, the bike repair booklet - and yes, parafin baths were what they said to do with chains.

I used that method on my training bikes in the mid 70's. Don't recall when I stopped doing it, probably when I quit racing around 1980 or so. Still a great low tech/cost method.

Aaron:)

My problem, though, was that I could never figure out what they were talking about when they said paraffin in those old English books. I interpreted it to mean melted wax, so that's what I did, removed the chain and swished it around in melted wax. It worked well enough and road gunk did not tend to accumulate on the chain, but it was much too labor intensive, and not so good for the chain either, I think, unbolting and rebolting it like that, and then there seems to be the awkward fact that paraffin means kerosene in the primitive patois of the British cannibal islands, so who knows what the poor blighters were actually trying to say. I think it might mean mineral oil, too. At any rate, I long since switched to schpritzing the chain with something or other and then wiping it off with a rag.

English 3 speed inspired .....ok its a Japanese 8 speed

I submit this is a worthy option. 8 sp, simple friction shifter so not a lot more maintainence than an internal hup (my opinion)

This can be done pretty easily, get a 70/80 road bike, put on a taller stem, different bar, simple mountain style brake levers, fenders, drop the front derailler (simplfy the lines)

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w142/squirtdad/IMG_0248.jpg

Actually, you need to vette you frame candidates carefully and look for an '80s touring bike. Most road frames in the '80s lacked rack and fender eylets, but touring bikes had them. :)

My problem, though, was that I could never figure out what they were talking about when they said paraffin in those old English books. I interpreted it to mean melted wax, so that's what I did, removed the chain and swished it around in melted wax. It worked well enough and road gunk did not tend to accumulate on the chain, but it was much too labor intensive, and not so good for the chain either, I think, unbolting and rebolting it like that, and then there seems to be the awkward fact that paraffin means kerosene in the primitive patois of the British cannibal islands, so who knows what the poor blighters were actually trying to say. I think it might mean mineral oil, too. At any rate, I long since switched to schpritzing the chain with something or other and then wiping it off with a rag.

I do believe paraffin is the wax, I think paraphine is what they call kerosene over there. Also since the book I was talking about mentioned melting it in a can on the stove, I think we can dispense with with the idea they were talking about kerosene.

I also recall that the book had a lot about the old British style touring in it. Of course I was all of ten back then and may be misremembering.

Did I mention that I LOVE old three speed bikes?

So what would make a good donor frame for a modern 3-speed?

After tonight's experience with my Blackburn light, I am liking the utility aspect of a good, old school 3 speed with a front dynamo hub and generator light.

Currently have my Bianchi Advantage that I had thought of making a modern 3-speed, but it lacks a lot of the easy attachment points for fenders and things.

Maybe a touring frame?

(I know, I know-I should just find an old school 3 speed and use that. I already have the hub to use for the Bianchi, but if a better frame could be found, great. )

While not utterly necessary, horizontal dropouts make it easier.

So what would make a good donor frame for a modern 3-speed?

After tonight's experience with my Blackburn light, I am liking the utility aspect of a good, old school 3 speed with a front dynamo hub and generator light.

Currently have my Bianchi Advantage that I had thought of making a modern 3-speed, but it lacks a lot of the easy attachment points for fenders and things.

Maybe a touring frame?

(I know, I know-I should just find an old school 3 speed and use that. I already have the hub to use for the Bianchi, but if a better frame could be found, great. )

Why not just look for an old school 3 speed? They not expensive at all.

Check out these E-bay auctions:

170220298107

200225134253

300226584349

Heck, scrounge around you local thrift stores, craiglist, "thrifty-nickel"/Greensheet newspaper and you might even cop a free or nearly free one!

So what would make a good donor frame for a modern 3-speed?

After tonight's experience with my Blackburn light, I am liking the utility aspect of a good, old school 3 speed with a front dynamo hub and generator light.

Currently have my Bianchi Advantage that I had thought of making a modern 3-speed, but it lacks a lot of the easy attachment points for fenders and things.

Maybe a touring frame?

(I know, I know-I should just find an old school 3 speed and use that. I already have the hub to use for the Bianchi, but if a better frame could be found, great. )

Any of the older steel "touring" geometry frames from the 70's. I have a mid 70's Dawes Galaxy that is about perfect. I have a mid 70's Motobecane Nomade (near the bottom of the line) that the geometry isn't quite as good as the Dawe's but will still make a decent conversion. BUT be forewarned; that particular era of French bike has strange threading and many parts ARE NOT common anymore. YMMV. Also any of the early MTB's with horizontal rear drop outs are candidates.

Aaron:)

So why horizontal dropouts for a 3-speed project? I checked out Peter White Cycles for more info on the generator lights and like the fork mounted lighting options.

I would love to get a true 3 speed, but I already have a hub sitting here to be used (Thanks, Aaron). If I do decide to go the 2nd bike option, that leaves my Bianchi as a utility bike. Would love the redundancy of having two bikes that can swap tubes and tires if I get a worthy 700c candidate.

So why horizontal dropouts for a 3-speed project? I checked out Peter White Cycles for more info on the generator lights and like the fork mounted lighting options.

I would love to get a true 3 speed, but I already have a hub sitting here to be used (Thanks, Aaron). If I do decide to go the 2nd bike option, that leaves my Bianchi as a utility bike. Would love the redundancy of having two bikes that can swap tubes and tires if I get a worthy 700c candidate.

If you are using a single cog rear wheel, you need to be able to move the wheel rearwards to tension the drive chain. Or you need to use a separate chain tensioner, on a multi speed rear free wheel bike the dérailleur acts as the tensioner.

Aaron:)

Thanks, I am learning.

I'm debating letting the mechanic just work the magic with my current bike or spend the summer learning and slowly building one up myself.

Thanks, I am learning.

I'm debating letting the mechanic just work the magic with my current bike or spend the summer learning and slowly building one up myself.

No problem...we all had to learn at some point:crash::lol:

Maybe see if they will let you "help"? At the very least you would pick up some of the basic skills.

Aaron:)

Well we have a great co-op here that has helped me in the past. I had brake issues from installing my rack and took it to them. They did the main part, which was readjusting and tightening the cable but had me do the pad adjustments. Came in handy when I lost a shoe about 3-4 days latter.

Since my severance check in June will be a bonus check instead, I had planned on using some of that for the work on the bike. I may just catch a Nashbar sale for a decent tool set and volunteer with the co-op to learn the skills and have a nice summer project.

I really should stop reading through Bike Forums. I have some really screwed up ideas on a pseudo-english 3 speed city bike project that might just work.

I really should stop reading through Bike Forums. I have some really screwed up ideas on a pseudo-english 3 speed city bike project that might just work.

Care to share:p
We can help you spend your hard earned money:innocent:

Aaron:)

Well I love the idea of of an old school (or close to it) 3-speed/IGH bicycle for the practicality and utility. I also love a lot of the ideas on bikes from Europe in general since so much of the market there is geared towards a bike as viable transit. So with that in mind, the screwed up little project in my head would be something like:

Using a Mixte frame (kind of an old school throw back to the new step-through bikes that are coming stateside), converting it to a 650b wheel set (not hard considering the French mixtes out there) and an IGH (either 3-speed or something more modern like a 5 or 7). Now to be really adventurous, see about using an IGH set up for disc brakes to avoid some issues with 650b and make a more reliable bike. Throw in a front dynohub and 1-2 (modern) generator lights, Wald front basket and a really awesome rack (http://revelationcycling.com/products_racks.html) produced here locally.

What can I say, I want a unique ride. I know I could probably just buy something pretty darn close. I would just love to see the :wtf: looks to be honest. For me it would be the challenge of designing the thing, scrounging the parts and getting it together.

I was working on my '48 Rudge at the shop today... I needed to adjust the rod v brakes and install a new filler cap in the hub and once that was done let some friends take it out for rides.

:D

A few people now "need" a bike like this for their very own.

I was working on my '48 Rudge at the shop today... I needed to adjust the rod v brakes and install a new filler cap in the hub and once that was done let some friends take it out for rides.

:D

A few people now "need" a bike like this for their very own.

Strange how they have that effect isn't it :);)

Reminds me, - my own Rudge needs a service :speedy:

Sianelle - If the sun is shining tomorrow I'll snap a few new pics as the old bike is looking mighty pretty now that she's had some loving... the new Brooks B66 didn't hurt either.

Oooooooo yes please! :D

Well I love the idea of of an old school (or close to it) 3-speed/IGH bicycle for the practicality and utility. I also love a lot of the ideas on bikes from Europe in general since so much of the market there is geared towards a bike as viable transit. So with that in mind, the screwed up little project in my head would be something like:

Using a Mixte frame (kind of an old school throw back to the new step-through bikes that are coming stateside), converting it to a 650b wheel set (not hard considering the French mixtes out there) and an IGH (either 3-speed or something more modern like a 5 or 7). Now to be really adventurous, see about using an IGH set up for disc brakes to avoid some issues with 650b and make a more reliable bike. Throw in a front dynohub and 1-2 (modern) generator lights, Wald front basket and a really awesome rack (http://revelationcycling.com/products_racks.html) produced here locally.

What can I say, I want a unique ride. I know I could probably just buy something pretty darn close. I would just love to see the :wtf: looks to be honest. For me it would be the challenge of designing the thing, scrounging the parts and getting it together.

Have you seen the Velo-Orange (http://velo-orange.com/) website?:love: (duck and cover)

He is offering a lot of stuff that is right along with your way of thinking. I am in the process of accumulating parts to build up a Gentleman's City Bike (http://velo-orange.com/vogecibifr.html) on an old Moby frame that I have lying around....like I NEEDED another project at the moment.

Aaron:)

Actually I have seen Velo-Orange. There are a few parts from there that will probably go on this frankenbike of mine.

I am still playing with the idea of a 3spd but based upon a more recent road frame--like my now-retired Panasonic. :) I've got a hub that needs pawls, and a friend has a 40 hole 700c rim for me. Now I just need lots of other parts--like chainguard, better saddle, spokes, North Road bars... ! I also need to go find those old threads about conversions. In the end, I'm hoping for a bike that I can easily wrench on (no strange English threading!) and can give a relaxing ride for short, fun trips.

Lengthier post in C&V, but trying to figure this out since searches (everywhere-even Sheldon's site) are bringing up nothing. Anyone have info on a "Cavalier" 1950's English 3-speed?

More than likely grabbing this one over the weekend as good, true, classic 3 speeds seem to be rare in my area. Or I am not looking hard enough. Looking mostly at fair value, as there is no price listed and the owner has no clue.

Oooooooo yes please! :D

For Sianelle...

The sun was shining and the lilacs are in bloom so when it came down to choosing what I was going to ride there was really no choice... one had to Rudge it...not trudge it.

Riding this bike invokes a sense of calmness and peace... it can go quite fast but why would one want to do that when the ride is so incredible ?

:D

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/Nevilleside.jpg
1948 Rudge Whitworth

Earlier quote: "Unless something breaks in the BB, you never have to take it apart. Just squirt oil down the seattube at regular intervals. Older 3spds had oil ports in the BB, the oil down the seat tube is the same principle."

The idea of oil lubrication for bottom brackets has long intrigued me. John Forrester explores the concept in Effective Cycling, and I can appreciate some of the benefits of oil lubing.

But oil mixed with grease will thin out the grease, so wouldn't oil introduced into a greased bottom bracket bearing tend to actually result in less lubrication?

I have two Raleigh Sportses that have oil ports on the front hub, bottom bracket and, of course, the SA hub. (Clearly, the hub needs oil for its non-bearing mechanism, regardless of one's thoughts on oil lubing in general.)

Why not, instead of having an oil port, have a zerk fitting so you could squirt pressurized grease into the bearing? That would really keep the bearing crud flushed out, be cleaner (no drips of oil), and provide longer-lasting lubrication.

I read about some guy who made a bike for beach/surf cycling and he used zerk fittings to basically fill the bike's tubes full of grease. Kinda heavy on land, but I guess grease is buoyant in water.

One of the interesting things about old Raleighs is how well thought out they are, and I really haven't been able to, in my mind, reconcile oil lubrication issue.

Mark
Santa Barbara, CA

I have 3 "oilers"... the Rudge is one of them as is my '55 Raleigh Lenton Sports and '54 Raleigh Sports (road bikes).

Despite their advancing years, these are some seriously smooth running bikes as oil is a better lubricant than grease but unlike greased bearings, does have to be topped up pretty regularly.

The oil also flushes out contaminants quite well.

May be posting my own 3-speed by next week. Seller is holding it for me and I am waiting to hear back on my offer.

But oil mixed with grease will thin out the grease, so wouldn't oil introduced into a greased bottom bracket bearing tend to actually result in less lubrication?


Grease is a mixture of oil and a soap base. It is the oil in the grease that does the lubricating, the soap is just to keep it in position. When the oil is depleated, you end up with just the soap, and that is the "hard grease" you have to clean out when repacking bearings.

So the answer is NO, you don't reduce the lubrication by thinning grease with oil. You loose the property of grease that holds the oil in the bearing, so you have to service the bearing more frequently.

For Sianelle...

The sun was shining and the lilacs are in bloom so when it came down to choosing what I was going to ride there was really no choice... one had to Rudge it...not trudge it.

Riding this bike invokes a sense of calmness and peace... it can go quite fast but why would one want to do that when the ride is so incredible ?

:D

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/Nevilleside.jpg
1948 Rudge Whitworth

Oh my word! :love: What a beautiful Rudge! Thankyou very much for posting this photograph :thumb:

On the subject of oil lubed bicycles I have a Hercules Roadster and a Raleigh Sports that are 'oilers' and they are waaaaay smoother bicycles to ride than a 'greaser' bike. Both bicycles are rolling around on their original bearings and a touch of the oil can is all they need from time to time to keep them rolling smoothly (I have this nice ex-NZ Railways steam era oilcan which is perfect for the job :D).

I can't think of any current mainstream cyclemakers that use oil lubrication and that's probably because most people are sold on sealed bearings. Do any of the exotic manufacturers feature oil lube? If it's that great, you'd think somebody[/i] would be doing it today.

Do you think that instead of an oil cup a zerk fitting and frequent greasing with a grease gun (grease forced in so that the old, dirty grease would ooze out) would be better than frequent oil lube? At least it would be cleaner; I recall someone who tried oil lubing found it kind of messy.

Regards,

Mark

My oilers are like old Harley Davidson motorcycles after they are serviced and I lay a cloth beneath them to catch any excess oil.

The oil that does run out is just as clean as the oil that goes in and any bike with an open seat post and a three piece bb can be oiled... hubs will of course need oil ports.

It's also an old race technique to use oil instead of grease as it reduces friction and makes things spin much smoother.

Yes it's true an 'oiler' bicycle can get messy if you let it get that way, but not if you wipe up the excess oil with a clean cotton rag. Modern bike makers don't do the 'oiler' thing anymore because most folk wouldn't have a clue about basic maintenance and keeping a bicycle properly wiped down and clean. Besides the cost of machining out hubs, BBs & etc for oil fittings and the cost of the oil fittings themselves has proved by time to be a target for the bean counters who run most bicycle manufacturing plants these days.

I do believe paraffin is the wax, I think paraphine is what they call kerosene over there. Also since the book I was talking about mentioned melting it in a can on the stove, I think we can dispense with with the idea they were talking about kerosene.

I also recall that the book had a lot about the old British style touring in it. Of course I was all of ten back then and may be misremembering.

Did I mention that I LOVE old three speed bikes?


Yes, neat pictures of British cyclocross and club rides and the like, and even photo of a recumbent, and ads in the back for Simplex gears and Lucas headlamps and Sturmey Archer and other very British paraphernalia. I love those old three speed "English racers" too!

One thing I never knew about was the trick that's mentioned here about lubing the bottom bracket by dropping oil down the seat tube. I never read anything about that in the old Cycling & Mopeds manuals, or anyplace else, either.

www.pashley.co.uk :thumb:

Their classic pathracer is just sooooooooo sexy :love:

Yes it's true an 'oiler' bicycle can get messy if you let it get that way, but not if you wipe up the excess oil with a clean cotton rag. Modern bike makers don't do the 'oiler' thing anymore because most folk wouldn't have a clue about basic maintenance and keeping a bicycle properly wiped down and clean. Besides the cost of machining out hubs, BBs & etc for oil fittings and the cost of the oil fittings themselves has proved by time to be a target for the bean counters who run most bicycle manufacturing plants these days.

I also suspect that the quality of grease has improved a bit over the 1908 stuff.;) Also as machining has become more precise...:roflmao2:

I love my "oilers" but really don't want to bring them in the house.

Aaron:)

I have read this thread on and off all day and have not finished it yet . First off Elkhound I used to ride over coal mountain On a huffy three speed. I left the 3 speed at moms house and had a schwinn 10 speed at dads
I was more worried about not getting to fast going down the other side I took a few white knuckle rides down hills on that schwinn (fast enough that I pasted several cars) this was when I was mid teens and 100# lighter I would have a hard time doing it now
second you nay sayers on the three speeds need to realise not every one is into the lightest, fastest, thing out there for some of us riding an old school bike is more important than light and fast I most bikes made in the last 20 years just don't inspired me to want to ride. the dutch style bikes excluded
all though I don't have an english bike I have a schwinn 3 speed and a german made bike that looks like the paschley(sp?) step through frame that is currently tored down for painting and going though and find them enjoyable to run to the store or cruise around on for exercise
Roy

I am in love with three speeds. Just picked mine up today. Other than a few minor changes, she'll stay the same and be a great city bike. Anyone have an idea on what I have here? As posted earlier, numerous searches have turned up nothing.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/ahulvey/P1010115.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/ahulvey/P1010117.jpg

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/ahulvey/P1010120-1.jpg

It could be a 'B' range bicycle by Raleigh in Nottingham. If you placed an order of a certain size with Raleigh for bicycles they would put any name you liked on them.

Nice bike though and definitely worth keeping and enjoying :thumb:

I have seen one other post about this type of bike here on BF. I also have seen reference to a "Cavalier Bicycle Company" here in the states founded 1890s. The SA date on the hub is '52, very light surface rust and mostly to the wheels. I have a vintage pump that fits right into the frame that came with it.

Thinking of having an alloy set of wheels made, either cleaning up and reusing the existing hub or using a newer model. Also a dyno hub and lights and maybe wider upright handle bars with shellacked cork grips.

ETA

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff195/ahulvey/P1010118-1.jpg

:love:

Just dropped some oil on the chain and took her for a nice evening ride through the apartment complex property. Brakes need work, new tires and tubes, either need to true the wheels or get new ones made. Awesome, though. 3 speeds are the epitome of what a bike should be: practical, elegant in its simplicity and bomb proof. No other bike has ever brought a smile to my face like this one.