Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

I forget my ;)...

My oldest daughter was aware that I was building a bike for her sister and being able to take them out on the English three speeds with my own (or the Twenty I got for The Girl) makes me a pretty lucky fellow.

I have some pretty wonderful girls in my life and I think I am really the lucky one.

Bump. :thumb:

Was just checking on models and my daughter's "new" 3 speed is a 1988 Raleigh Saffron which is the non folding version of the Compact... I think she will have fun making the bike her own while her dad tweaks out her ride.

A pic of the bike on the ride home (it fits me too).

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/shopper1.jpg

Educate me, what is the attraction to this type of bike, if it isn't a folder? Just curious.

They're still a lot more compact than a normal sized bicycle even if they don't fold. I used a non-folding Raleigh 20 for commuting by train and it was way easier to manage than a full sized bike.

They're still a lot more compact than a normal sized bicycle even if they don't fold. I used a non-folding Raleigh 20 for commuting by train and it was way easier to manage than a full sized bike.

I thought that may be the reason, but wasn't sure. I passed one up a few weeks ago, it was a folder. Kinda wish I hadn't now. We will be doing alot of traveling this fall, these bikes make sense.

English 3-speeds are amazing. In addition to this Phillips, I have three other English 3-speeds as well as an Italian folder with the SA AW hub.

I picked this up for $40 three months ago. I put air in the tires, put on a spare set of brake pads, and put an equally ugly but slightly more comfortable saddle on. It needs a leather seat!

I've been riding it around town for short errands, and I take it to work once a week when I give the other bikes a break...a 30 mile RT.

1965 Phillips
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/catskillscooby/BIKES/IMG_5842.jpg

Educate me, what is the attraction to this type of bike, if it isn't a folder? Just curious.

Bikes with 20 inch wheels are of course a little more compact than their full sized counterparts and those who ride small wheelers generally appreciate how quickly they spin up, how nimble and stable they are, and how comfortable a ride they offer.

I rarely ever fold my folding bikes and the non folding versions also tend to be a little lighter... they also come in high performance versions that can also hold their own

They are also the perfect bike to keep on hand when one has guests as they can accomodate people of nearly every size.

My daughter absolotely loves her Saffron.

Educate me, what is the attraction to this type of bike, if it isn't a folder? Just curious.

They're still portable, especially if you're short. Mine's a folder, but I never fold it because it's a bit of an operation and it's actually more awkward folded than unfolded. (I think the Twenty was made for folding up and stashing in a locker or car boot, not for carrying on the train. There are no latches or locks to keep it folded, and there's nothing to rest it on.) But it's small enough that even with its steel frame I can pick it up and carry it on a staircase. (I'm 5'5" and have trouble doing that with my larger 26"-wheel mountain/hybrid.)

Also, depending on where you live, 20" or 16" tires may be legal for sidewalk riding. I don't make a habit of riding on the sidewalk, but in cases where I have to detour onto a non-bike-friendly street (which has been happening lately with construction in Toronto), I like to have the option. Riding slowly and cautiously on the sidewalk, and dismounting to let pedestrians pass, is still faster than walking.

Gosh, I love this bike! I have to force myself to ride my others! Anyway, thought I'd post some updated pictures of it. The other pics are in post #547. I've made a few changes, still have to add a SA shifter, and it needs re-cabling. I'm contemplating adding a sprung Brooks, and North Roads style bars, but I'm concerned those changes will too drastically effect the "personality" of the bike. Silly I suppose to feel this way about a "nothing special" Schwinn Speedster, but thats the way it is! :)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo002.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo002.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo003.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo003.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo007.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo007.jpg)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo005.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo005.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo006.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo006.jpg) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/th_Speedstertwo009.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v160/Juggler54/Speedster/Speedstertwo009.jpg)
click to enlarge

Actually as cobbled up as the shift cable is (see the rack closeup), it shifts smoothly, and hasn't proven to be a problem so far. The seat bag is actually a camera bag, which works wonderfully, and has plenty of storage. The handle bars are a little "tight" to me, a couple inches wider would be great. Also, the grips are pointed more, "straight back" than the pics show. The North Roads bars I mentioned are swept out more towards the ends. I have them on two other bikes, and am impressed by how comfortable they are. I have a Brooks B66 on my Schwinn Continental, and it is vastly superior to this Schwinn Approved "thing", butt it doesn't bother me too much. :D

Forgot to add, I squirted the seat springs where they contact their mounts with Tri-Flow, no more squeaky seat! Priceless! :thumb:

theres a hot young babe been riding round town on an old green sears 3 speed. WOW!!!!Those classics make a girl look even hotter!

A pix of a nice old 1967 Raleigh Sports that I took in a trade in.Has the Brooks #72 leather saddle & bell.

I have several gear hub bikes. The closest to classic is a Japanese steel track style frame, with road geometry, that I installed a SRAM 3 speed hub in. A fun ride. I also have two modern gear hub bikes, a Swobo Dixon with iMotion9 hub and a Civia Hyland Rohloff. For town riding I find any gear hub bike more convenient than a derailleur setup due to the ability to shift while stopped.

There is now a Yahoo group primarily for those interested in gear hub bikes. Here is the link.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Geared_hub_bikes/

Nice to see this old thread come to the top again. I had kind of forgotten it existed. I just spent most of Thanksgiving Day rereading it. I have seen only one 3 speed other than my Dunelt in town this past year, one of the University students was riding it. I did not get to see exactly what it was as I was driving in traffic when I passed her. It was pretty rusty, I remember.

BTW, does anyone know were I can get a couple of the nylon hub oil caps without having to pay $10 shipping?

I have a new three speed... it stems from the co-joining of a vintage CCM (Canadian) frame and parts with a Sturmey Archer SA three speed and SA drum brake.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/sallydrive2.jpg

Educate me, what is the attraction to this type of bike, if it isn't a folder? Just curious.

I forgot to add that this bike and it's folding cousins are extremely stable bikes due to a much lower centre of gravity and are rather confidence inspiring...

Cool thread. The Old Gentleman, my 1966 Raleigh DL-1 Tourist that I picked up this past September for $30, fits right in! The only things I've done to it are replace the shift cable and add the baskets. Oh, and I replaced the original saddle bag with a NOS one I bought on ebay.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/Doohickie/Bicycle08/Picture165.jpg

Nice to see this old thread come to the top again. I had kind of forgotten it existed. I just spent most of Thanksgiving Day rereading it. I have seen only one 3 speed other than my Dunelt in town this past year, one of the University students was riding it. I did not get to see exactly what it was as I was driving in traffic when I passed her. It was pretty rusty, I remember.

BTW, does anyone know were I can get a couple of the nylon hub oil caps without having to pay $10 shipping?

I got a couple for my roadster from Harris "http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#smallparts".. Sorry not sure how to add a live link here.....
Scroll down the page the link points too...

English 3-speeds are amazing. In addition to this Phillips, I have three other English 3-speeds as well as an Italian folder with the SA AW hub.

I picked this up for $40 three months ago. I put air in the tires, put on a spare set of brake pads, and put an equally ugly but slightly more comfortable saddle on. It needs a leather seat!

I've been riding it around town for short errands, and I take it to work once a week when I give the other bikes a break...a 30 mile RT.

1965 Phillips
http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/catskillscooby/BIKES/IMG_5842.jpg

That can be a utility bike two ways: As is (Bike thief: What? that old thing, Looks like junk pass) or After a nice repainting and cleaning. (Then you have the whole C&V crowd lusting after it.) :love:

There were some posts about the Flying Pigeon from China early in this thread. Seems like they are getting more popular. There is actually a Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon) article about them, and several distrbutors/dealers in the USA now. Here is one, http://guanxi-trading.com/bikes.html

They even have a cargo version for only $1750 shipped. The single top tube Roadster is $500 shipped. Unfortunately it only comes in a 22 inch frame, no 24 inch, and is single speed only. Of course you can buy one in Shanghai for $150, or from eBay for $299 + $80 shipping. Or you can buy one for $45 as someone mentioned, just jump in your wayback machine and go to 1993. I have heard that the export ones are better quality than the ones you get in China however.

I got a couple for my roadster from Harris "http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#smallparts".. Sorry not sure how to add a live link here.....
Scroll down the page the link points too...

That is exactly what I was trying to avoid, having to pay $10.00 for a 10 cent part. Unfortunately it is also the only source I could find. Actually I would not mind paying that for the metal oil caps if I could find a source of them.

That is exactly what I was trying to avoid, having to pay $10.00 for a 10 cent part. Unfortunately it is also the only source I could find. Actually I would not mind paying that for the metal oil caps if I could find a source of them.

Sorry, I wast sure of the shipping charges on those... It was part of a combined order when I did it.. I needed a replacement pully that goes on the bottom of the seat tube for the shift cable and some other goodies... Picked up a couple spares too...

There were some posts about the Flying Pigeon from China early in this thread. Seems like they are getting more popular. There is actually a Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Pigeon) article about them, and several distrbutors/dealers in the USA now. Here is one, http://guanxi-trading.com/bikes.html

They even have a cargo version for only $1750 shipped. The single top tube Roadster is $500 shipped. Unfortunately it only comes in a 22 inch frame, no 24 inch, and is single speed only. Of course you can buy one in Shanghai for $15, or from eBay for $299 + $80 shipping. Or you can buy one for $45 as someone mentioned, just jump in your wayback machine and go to 1993. I have heard that the export ones are better quality than the ones you get in China however.

Wow, judging from the price they sure are prproud of those Pigions :-)...
I did notice they have 28 inch wheels and rod brakes.. I wonder if any of the parts will work
work on my Raliegh Roadster ?..

Wow, judging from the price they sure are prproud of those Pigions :-)...
I did notice they have 28 inch wheels and rod brakes.. I wonder if any of the parts will work
work on my Raliegh Roadster ?..

There is a great deal of markup on Pigeons... it's ridiculous actually.

After having read this thread, I went by my LBS today and was gonna tell them they really need to get some 3-speed uprights in for me to lust after. And I found out they just received a new Biria (http://www.biria.com/bicycles/cd/cd_ladies_17_red.jsp):

http://www.biria.com/images/cd_ladies_red.jpg

Okay, it was a smaller ladies model, but boy does it look sweet!

After having read this thread, I went by my LBS today and was gonna tell them they really need to get some 3-speed uprights in for me to lust after. And I found out they just received a new Biria (http://www.biria.com/bicycles/cd/cd_ladies_17_red.jsp):

http://www.biria.com/images/cd_ladies_red.jpg

Okay, it was a smaller ladies model, but boy does it look sweet!

Yeah. Sweet. Untill you have to re and re the rear wheel. Hoo boy. I've got a couple here I.m trying to unload.

Actually, the one at the LBS arrived with a flat which they were changing this morning. If I got one of those the first mod would be to put in thick walled tubes.

Yeah. Sweet. Untill you have to re and re the rear wheel. Hoo boy. I've got a couple here I.m trying to unload.

Not as quick as a coaster brake or QR multi speed, ... I dropped the front and rear wheels on my roller braked Redline R530 this morning, in fact had to do the front wheel twice because I forgot to skin the paint off the drop out for the generator hub grounding.:o I highly suggest Kevlar belted tires and heavy duty tubes. I actually have used slime tubes in the past on flat prone bikes that I service:thumb:

Aaron:)

After having read this thread, I went by my LBS today and was gonna tell them they really need to get some 3-speed uprights in for me to lust after. And I found out they just received a new Biria. Okay, it was a smaller ladies model, but boy does it look sweet!

My daughter's Calvin, made by Biria is an excellent bike. Bought it new in Germany in 2000 or 2001 for DM565 (about $300) fully equipped with Sachs 3 speed coaster hub, fenders, lights, bell, rack, basket, frame lock etc. Still has the original Nokian 622 x 47mm tires on it and my daughter has never had a problem with it.

Yeah. Sweet. Untill you have to re and re the rear wheel. Hoo boy. I've got a couple here I.m trying to unload.

"re and re"? Remove and replace?

Now that's a nice looking bike... No prices or ordering info though that I could see..
That back weel can't be much worse to change then my Raliegh Roadster.. You have to
pull the brake pads off, unhook the shift, fender brackets etc to get it off.. Then hope you
don't mess up the two wheel position adjustment settings in the process... I run thron resistant tubes, liners and Ugh slime in that sucker so I don't have to do it often..

Not as quick as a coaster brake or QR multi speed, ... I dropped the front and rear wheels on my roller braked Redline R530 this morning, in fact had to do the front wheel twice because I forgot to skin the paint off the drop out for the generator hub grounding.:o I highly suggest Kevlar belted tires and heavy duty tubes. I actually have used slime tubes in the past on flat prone bikes that I service:thumb:

Aaron:)

Sure. I deal with gearhubs and roller brakes all the time. No big deal there. Throw in a full coverage chain case and rack and fender mounts that slip over the axle and you are in for a fun time.
The only thing I've dealt with that was worse was a Gazelle, which in addition to all the above issues, also had a kick stand which mounted on both ends of the axle.
Dutch bikes. Bah!

"re and re"? Remove and replace?

No flies on you.:D

Wow, judging from the price they sure are prproud of those Pigions :-)...
I did notice they have 28 inch wheels and rod brakes.. I wonder if any of the parts will work
work on my Raliegh Roadster ?..

Well, I did lose a zero, they go for $150 in China (that is from the wiki, but I do not know if that is retail or container lot wholesale). Let's see $5K to ship a short container, call it 300 bikes, so $17 shipping that makes $167, add 50% markup for the distributor $250, add $80 shipping within the US. $320, add 50% markup for the dealer equals $480. Of course a few years ago the dollar was worth twice what it is today on the world market. So anyone with a spare $50K or so can go into business. Note: I actually looked into importing roadster bikes from India about 3 years ago; that turned out to be $43 each for a 20' container of bicycle parts completely unassembled; so I would have turned out to be a bicycle manufacturer rather than a bicycle importer.

The parts probably will fit. The finish is probably not up to the quality on your roadster.

Something wrong there... My latest Giant Sedona St came from Tiawan (container), delivered to a distributor and then shipped to a dealer and sold for under 300.00... And it wasn't a single speed either...

That's about what the Birias are going for at my LBS ($450-500).

I got a couple for my roadster from Harris "http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#smallparts".. Sorry not sure how to add a live link here.....
Scroll down the page the link points too...

Trying to fix the link: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/sturmey-archer-parts.html#smallparts

Something wrong there... My latest Giant Sedona St came from Tiawan (container), delivered to a distributor and then shipped to a dealer and sold for under 300.00... And it wasn't a single speed either...

Most likely because I was talking about a minimum order, and the bike you are talking about was part of a much larger order. After all Walmart sells bikes for <$100. There just isn't that big a market for roadsters here or Walmart would be selling them for $100-125 each. For some strange reason factories seem to be willing to give you a better deal on 25000 than they are on 300. Also the roadsters that they are selling here are loaded up with accessories, a stripped version like intended to sell in Africa is about 1/2 the price FOB factory. Also a 50# roadster costs more to manufacture than a 30# mountain bike say as well as fewer fitting in that container.

You can check right on the web, the landed price in a USA port of a 40 foot container from China is currently about $8000, so $5000 for a 20' container delivered to a warehouse someplace inland is a pretty close estimate. If you are contracting for a whole ship load at a time like Walmart your per container price goes down a lot. A thing to realize also is that there are all kinds of fees involved in that price that you do not think about until you actually do a bit of reseach. So my point holds, the people bringing Flying Pigeon Roadsters and the like in are making a decent profit, but they are not ripping anyone off.

I agree with what you say to a point... I think bigger factors are volume and compitition... If your only selling 100 Roadsters etc a month you have to charge a lot more then the guy selling 1000 comperable bikes a month to cover a comfortable overhead... Also if you are the olnly person selling the bike model you can charge a lot more then those selling "common" bikes.. I would bet that from Tiawan/China the volume cost per unit is not that much different between a thousand and ten thousand bikes... But then this is all speculation since we don't have the numbers.....

Maybe a mod could move the economics discussion to it's own thread? Just a thought.

Why, we have pretty much exhausted that issue?

In case folks read this thread that do not understand what 3-speed bike are about I would like to suggest this report on the Pepin Three Speed Tour that I think catches the spirit of these bicycles rather well.

http://twocitiestwowheels.blogspot.com/2006/05/who-goes-out-in-midday-sun.html

Thanks for posting the blog graywolf. I enjoyed it!

Same here... I really enjoyed reading that.. Went out and put another coat of polish on my Roadster :-)

Anything I should be looking at for a 3 speed conversion of a Schwinn Le Tour?

Anything I should be looking at for a 3 speed conversion of a Schwinn Le Tour?

Should not be a problem. the LeTour has horizontal dropouts, or at least the '77 model I bought new back then did. so all you need it the long axle to fit the wide drop outs. A note however, I bent three of those frames before I gave up on it, they were not the most sturdy bicycles. Hit a chuckhole at speed and it is history.

Thanks. Velo Orange has some nice handlebars I'm looking. Should be a fun project.

Well, I did lose a zero, they go for $150 in China (that is from the wiki, but I do not know if that is retail or container lot wholesale). Let's see $5K to ship a short container, call it 300 bikes, so $17 shipping that makes $167, add 50% markup for the distributor $250, add $80 shipping within the US. $320, add 50% markup for the dealer equals $480. Of course a few years ago the dollar was worth twice what it is today on the world market. So anyone with a spare $50K or so can go into business. Note: I actually looked into importing roadster bikes from India about 3 years ago; that turned out to be $43 each for a 20' container of bicycle parts completely unassembled; so I would have turned out to be a bicycle manufacturer rather than a bicycle importer.
The parts probably will fit. The finish is probably not up to the quality on your roadster.

It looks like this is what Yellow Jersey did.

http://www.yellowjersey.org/EASTMAN.HTML

Looks like you have done some research... Much more then I that's for sure...
A question if I may though... Why is it I can buy say a Giant Sedona ST (Mountain bike) for half that from a dealer... Seems like that bike more or less follows the same path yours did ???... Certanly quantity can't make that much of a differance ???.

Looking for a new set of 28 inch wheels for my Roadster... Mine work ok but the chrome where the brake pads rub is wearing thin and the brass or whatever (it's brass looking anyway) is starting to show through... Last resort I guess I can get them rechromed somewhere but would really prefer a new set...

I own 3 :a 1959 schwinn ladies ,$5 a mint ladies colombia tri coaster $15 and a west german exectutive $10. when you can find cheap used ones who will pay for new?

I own 3 :a 1959 schwinn ladies ,$5 a mint ladies colombia tri coaster $15 and a west german exectutive $10. when you can find cheap used ones who will pay for new?

You have to live somewhere they can be found...all that shows up around here on CL is the overpriced used once superduper carbon wonders. In the thrifts? WM specials at 95% of full retail. I haunt the local thrifts, yard sales, etc. In the past 5 years I have purchased 3 bikes none of them spectacular finds. Best deals so far have come from my LBS that sells used bikes. I picked up a Staiger (German trekking bike) that was fully loaded with a dyno hub, lights, racks and fenders for $175. I have not seen a Raleigh 3 speed for sale in my area in over 20 years.

Aaron:)

A bit OT. Was looking to upgrade the old single pivot brakes on my 60's era 3-speed and was looking at Tektro's R730 long reach and clicked on JensonUSA's web site (must be a mis-print...lol...can buy a new bike for $764):

https://www.jensonusa.com/store/product/BR407E05-Tektro+R730+Long+Reach+Rd+Calipers.aspx?cc=MXN