Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

If anyone is in Chicago and is trying to find the ever elusive KHS Green bicycle, I was in Uptown Bikes on Broadway recently having my front hub rebuilt and I noticed that they actually have several of these bikes in stock in all sizes. Two drawbacks, as follows: 1) they are heavy bikes; and 2) Uptown Bikes was selling them for about $90 above what I thought was the M.S.R.P. (that said, still not overly expensive as far as bicycles go).

I just got an e-mail from a certain well-known bike company to the effect that they are planning to introduce an "English three speed" type bike for 2010. It will actually be a seven or eight speed, but it will have an internal hub gear, a set-back seat, built in racks and fenders, backswept handlebars, and an integrated generator lighting system. I won't say which company as I don't want to spill the beans.

I just got an e-mail from a certain well-known bike company to the effect that they are planning to introduce an "English three speed" type bike for 2010. It will actually be a seven or eight speed, but it will have an internal hub gear, a set-back seat, built in racks and fenders, backswept handlebars, and an integrated generator lighting system. I won't say which company as I don't want to spill the beans.

Why the secrecy? And the delay?

Why the secrecy? And the delay?

As for the secrecy, I was told it privately and I don't think it would be right to give the details on public forum like this. As for the delay, I don't know for sure and prefer not to spectulate.

Schwinn just did that last year, I haven't seen one in person yet but they look nice..not the X-Mart bikes....
http://www.schwinnbike.com/usa/eng/Products/Cruisers/Details/1134-S8COF3-Coffee-3spd

Schwinn just did that last year, I haven't seen one in person yet but they look nice..not the X-Mart bikes....
http://www.schwinnbike.com/usa/eng/Products/Cruisers/Details/1134-S8COF3-Coffee-3spd

I have seen the bikes, not bad. But not sure if they are being offered for 2009.

Aaron:)

Schwinn just did that last year, I haven't seen one in person yet but they look nice..not the X-Mart bikes....
http://www.schwinnbike.com/usa/eng/Products/Cruisers/Details/1134-S8COF3-Coffee-3spd

Looks like a lot of bike for the money. I don't know why they would wait to bring it to market. At least one satisfied "customer" is quoted on the web site. The pictured bike is peculiar, it has rear rim brakes but the text says it is equipped with a coaster brake

I haven't bought myself a new bike in decades, literally. I was given a new cruiser-style bike by my wife for Christmas a few years ago, but I've never bought one for myself. This Schwinn Coffee intrigues me though. While I could afford to spend more, if I buy a new one it will fall in the $400-$500 range. And I like the look of the Coffee. Providing of course I can find one that'll fit my 6'2" 245lb frame.

Schwinn just did that last year, I haven't seen one in person yet but they look nice..not the X-Mart bikes....
http://www.schwinnbike.com/usa/eng/Products/Cruisers/Details/1134-S8COF3-Coffee-3spd

Actually the Schwinn Coffee has been available for several years. IIRC, they used to call it the Coffee and Cream; most likely because the diamond frame model was brown with white fenders while the drop frame model was white with brown fenders. I have not seen one in person either, but it seems to only comes in the small frame size.

An interesting thing is that my LBS is listed as a Torker dealer, but I have not seen the Urban bikes (mentioned in an earlier post) there. Oh well, I would not trade my '65 Dunelt for one anyway.

Looks like a lot of bike for the money. I don't know why they would wait to bring it to market. At least one satisfied "customer" is quoted on the web site. The pictured bike is peculiar, it has rear rim brakes but the text says it is equipped with a coaster brake

They were first offered in 2007 AFAIK I saw them around Christmas last year. They have front and rear rim brakes as well as a coaster. (Can't be too safe ya know!:thumb:) At that time the list was around $350. A bit steep IMHO but certainly not out of line. Performance was also selling a version for ~$279 but is was as single speed coaster brake. They only come in one size, not unusual in the lower priced bikes.

Aaron:)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/3421156363_d3ac7d7052.jpg?v=0

Though I would post one of my three speeds...

its not english, but a fuji S10S with a SA AW laced into the 27 inch rim. There are some 10-12% grades around where I ride, so thus the 38 tooth front.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3369/3421158185_ff6ea0f8ec.jpg?v=0
This is a daily rider, brought back from the dead(5$ thrift store find, got it for the ideal saddle that was on it. Its a lot of fun to ride around, and is going to get ridden on some brevets pretty soon as well.

Nice!! I used to have a Royce Union with a S-A, I miss it. This Fuji looks nice. Nice work!

I'm really regretting selling my 3 speed...

But I have a line on a Dunelt. Any tips on what I should be looking for when I go check this out?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3622/3575330115_db4fa4c4b5.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3341/3576136470_a638db7d28.jpg?v=0

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3412/3575329669_3235e3d7a9.jpg?v=0

Nothing, just buy it. Assuming the price is right of course. It's complete, it doesn't look like it has much rust, the paint is good.

The three speed shifter is obviously out of adjustment, but I bet after adjusting the hub, brakes, and a good wash and wax you'll have an all original Dunelt that's a 6-8 on a scale of 10.

I'm first on the list for it. No word on price yet. If I get it, I plan on making it a daily commuter.

I just bought a CCM Elan 3-speed and have been attempting an overhaul. I decided on a 3-speed because I like the upright riding position and live in the prairies. I'm might commute. I might not. I'm really enjoying the project regardless. Stripping it down wasn't too hard and all of the Sturmey Archer components look to be in excellent shape.

I'm looking forward to putting some miles on it. Love the forum and this thread.

I got this beautiful 1951 Rudge Sports Light a few weeks ago.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a261/catskillscooby/BIKES/IMG_6632.jpg

They were first offered in 2007 AFAIK I saw them around Christmas last year. They have front and rear rim brakes as well as a coaster. (Can't be too safe ya know!:thumb:) At that time the list was around $350. A bit steep IMHO but certainly not out of line. Performance was also selling a version for ~$279 but is was as single speed coaster brake. They only come in one size, not unusual in the lower priced bikes.

Aaron:) There is a brand new one in my garage and I love it. It`s comfortable and well built for the price. The paint is nice and the brown color gives it a cool vintage look, I`m getting a lot of compliments from people that think it`s a restoration. The single has rim brakes only, no coaster.

I have to agree with the general sentiment for the classic English 3 speed bike, they are machines of beauty. It is depressing when the majority of bikes you see are really just glorified pogo sticks on wheels and this is normally in urban areas as well, why the chunky tyres when there is no off-road track.

I am hoping to buy a Pashley Roadster Sovereign for city use, although I have seen positive reviews for cheaper dutch/english bikes e.g. Dutchie bikes, and Bobbin cycles, so was considering coupling one of those with a Brompton - for commuting / holidays. Does anyone here have experience of either of those brands?

I guess another question is whether 3 gears are enough for Britain, there are several hilly parts and I'd imagine slogging a 30-40lb bike up one of them wouldn't go down too well, especially in summer.

The issue with many stock 3 speeds is their gearing as it makes 3rd gear rather steep and because of that it does not get used unless one has a tailwind or a big hill and the first gear is also relatively high compared to modern bikes.

My daughters and girlfriend all ride English 3 speeds and I have changed out the rear cogs for larger ones to give the bikes a better low and middle and open up the 3rd gear.

My 1948 Rudge roadster actually came with a lower gearing than a stock Raleigh and I think this is because is not designed for out of the saddle riding... it climbs well and just flies on flat ground.

When my buddy bought a mountain bike, I put a big cog on my English Racer so I could ride the trails with him. My first mountain bike. Fun times.

The issue with many stock 3 speeds is their gearing as it makes 3rd gear rather steep and because of that it does not get used unless one has a tailwind or a big hill and the first gear is also relatively high compared to modern bikes.

My daughters and girlfriend all ride English 3 speeds and I have changed out the rear cogs for larger ones to give the bikes a better low and middle and open up the 3rd gear.

My 1948 Rudge roadster actually came with a lower gearing than a stock Raleigh and I think this is because is not designed for out of the saddle riding... it climbs well and just flies on flat ground.

Yep. I put a 24 cog on mine and the gearing is set so that third is the gear I use almost all the time unless I have a headwind, no hills here in Miami, Florida.

First is nice and low, making it easy to get going quickly from a dead stop without having to get out of the saddle, second is a transition gear and third is an easy cruising gear.

I "searched" the thread for Gary Fisher but I have to admit that I did not read through all 27ish pages of it.

How about this?
http://fisherbikes.com/bike/model/simple-city-3M
http://fisherbikes.com/images/fisherbikes/bikes/2009/640x400/simple_city_3.jpg
$600 might be slightly steep but it's a nice bike. There is an eight speed version that comes with a heafty front basket for a couple hundred dollars more too!

Aside: I wonder how much the English Three Speeds cost new relative to today's currency?

This bike came and found me... I recently added the panier that I made from an old leather briefcase and found the Wright's Olympic 25 saddle which is probably older than the bike.

I am down to one three speed now but am thinking of doing another conversion.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/nevillerack1.jpg

I "searched" the thread for Gary Fisher but I have to admit that I did not read through all 27ish pages of it.

How about this?

$600 might be slightly steep but it's a nice bike. There is an eight speed version that comes with a heafty front basket for a couple hundred dollars more too!

Aside: I wonder how much the English Three Speeds cost new relative to today's currency?

About $400 or so. My 1972 Superbe sold new for around $75-$80.

Aaron:)

Aside: I wonder how much the English Three Speeds cost new relative to today's currency?

That is actually a hard one to answer. First those old bikes were pretty much hand built, modern bikes are built in robot factories. Just by the currency conversion they would be about $400-500. However, a decent quality Chinese made version today would probably go for $200 or so retail in the USA (cost about $25 from the factory in container lots).

Back in the early seventies a top of the line Raleigh Superbe listed for 110.00 and a DL sold for just a little less and if we factor for inflation we'd get a current price of about $400.00.

They still make single speed rod brake roadsters in India and China and they sell for about $60.00.

I just got an e-mail from a certain well-known bike company to the effect that they are planning to introduce an "English three speed" type bike for 2010. It will actually be a seven or eight speed, but it will have an internal hub gear, a set-back seat, built in racks and fenders, backswept handlebars, and an integrated generator lighting system. I won't say which company as I don't want to spill the beans.

That bike was already made!

Lessee...
Modernized English 3 speed..........check.
Seven speed hub........................check.
Set back seat.............................check. (if I understand it properly)
Fenders.....................................check.
Rack? Who needs a rack when you have a proper saddle bag?
Back swept handlebars? If you mean "Old Road"...then, check.
Integrated lighting system?..........check.

Have the Company call me for a test ride. If they can make anything nearly this spectacular... I will buy 10 of them.:D

Extra credit if you can guess what "Company" made this one. :p:innocent::p

[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;9373702]Back in the early seventies a top of the line Raleigh Superbe listed for 110.00

Just thought I would throw mine up for illustration. Pure, shameless, illustration. ;)

It's a good juxtaposition to the above "Superbe"

I have no experience of these older style bikes, but how about a Kona Africabike? I saw a 3 speed model for £350. Not sure if that is an equivalent to English 3speed, the frame is obviously different but looks like more other components are similar to what you would expect on an E3s.

http://www.konaworld.com/09bikes/small/T2K9_AFRICABIKEONE.jpg

[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;9373702]Back in the early seventies a top of the line Raleigh Superbe listed for 110.00

Just thought I would throw mine up for illustration. Pure, shameless, illustration. ;)

It's a good juxtaposition to the above "Superbe"

I bought a new Superbe in 1976 that looked identical to yours for $140 or so in Philadelphia. I paid a few dollars extra to get it with the S3C coaster hub rather than the AW.

I have no experience of these older style bikes, but how about a Kona Africabike? I saw a 3 speed model for £350. Not sure if that is an equivalent to English 3speed, the frame is obviously different but looks like more other components are similar to what you would expect on an E3s.

http://www.konaworld.com/09bikes/small/T2K9_AFRICABIKEONE.jpg

I like it, but it seems to be only available as a woman's bike, and I'm not sure if three speeds are enough for very hilly areas.

I've been looking for an English three-speed for myself. The good ones on craigslist are expensive. But I'm in no hurry. I am waiting for someone who has had his in storage for a long time and doesn't care about the value or doesn't know.

I want a 21" frame, and it has to be a men's. The fenders and chainguard have to be intact.

Ran across a review of the Manhattan Green (KHS?) (http://www.bicycletimesmag.com/content/manhattan-green) Seems to fit the bill for a basic 3 speed. Not your father's Raleigh...

Aaron:)

Ah, that's nice. Very nice, sensible, and priced exactly right. It seems that $370 is a minimum price for a sensible, durable bike these days.

I wonder what effect a head tube angle (and its directly related fork rake) has on handling and overall feel. There's something very charismatic about the ride of the old English 3-speed (Sports-style) bike, and I think it's from the head angle plus the short top tube. I'd like to try this Green model.

But hmm, maybe I'd be happy making a three-speed from one of my existing bikes.

I have one of these (http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10052&storeId=10053&productId=202000&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=200281&top_category=200274), which came at an incredible price ($300). It's a cheap but serviceable aluminum frame which happens to have a very comfortable ride and geometry. I replaced the very cheapest parts immediately. I could re-fit it with a 3-speed hub, a chainguard, fenders, and an upright handlebar.

I also have a Surly Cross Check, which has room for wider tires, and I could see how it feels with an upright handlebar.

I've been looking for an English three-speed for myself. The good ones on craigslist are expensive. But I'm in no hurry. I am waiting for someone who has had his in storage for a long time and doesn't care about the value or doesn't know.

I want a 21" frame, and it has to be a men's. The fenders and chainguard have to be intact.

Hmmm, Noglider.... I have a beautiful 1971 (or was that 74???) Raleigh Superbe that is 21".
It is too small for me but I keep it around because it is gorgeous, and for shorter friends to ride. It even has the original fork lock key :eek:

If you ever come to Chicago, you can ride it back. :lol:

How about a the Torker t-300? It has fenders, SA 3 speed hub, 700x40 tires, a rack, and only costs $379. For the money it looks like a winner to me. Anyone here have experience with this bike?

How about a the Torker t-300? It has fenders, SA 3 speed hub, 700x40 tires, a rack, and only costs $379. For the money it looks like a winner to me. Anyone here have experience with this bike?

I have NO experience with the Torker.

That said, read their own description (with my opinions in red)

T-300
Need to make a quick ride over to the grocery store? yes. Take a spin to spin class? 20 years ago.Grab some grub for lunch? most definately yes.Whatever your destination may be, Torker’s T-300 is an urban commuter bike that sits upright and lets you see the World on two wheels. The easy-to-use twist shifter and no-maintenance Sturmey-Archer internal 3-speed hub gives you just enough range of gears for any climbs or descents you might encounter along the way. Provided you live in Illinois.Lightweight alloy wheels with 700x40c tires and an Inline comfort saddle Which you will undoubtably replace immediately.make your ride easy and enjoyable.
Extra, Extra: Strong steel frame and fork Gas pipe steel or what? Is "strong" steel a brand name? This part makes me think they made the frame out of fence posts. I digress...— 1 size fits most, OOOPS! Just lost me there! Sounds like all of those Craigslist ads from bike flippers. If Billy Mayes were alive, even he wouldn't make THAT claim. no-maintenance Sturmey-Archer internal 3-speed hub, rear luggage rack, front brakes, front and rear Fenders, frame fittings for water bottle cage, upright handlebars provide a perfect posture riding position,Again... sounds like a bill of goods. When someone finds my perfect riding position in a uni-fit bike, please let me know.... I want stock in that company. lightweight alloy rims, super comfortable springer saddle.


So, for the price... It may be just what the first time bike purchaser would gravitate to. That's okay. Personally though... for nearly $400 after tax, I would buy myself an overpriced vintage Raleigh Superbe on ebay. New isn't always better. If you're going to own a heavy, slow bike for trotting around... make it a beautiful classic in great condition. Just my opinion. :D

I fixed up an old three-speed this month for my daughter's girlfriend. I was disappointed with the ride. Not sure why. I'm thinking short cranks and short reach. I even replaced the rims with high quality alloy rims, and I replaced the brakes with modern-ish alloy calipers.

New '10 Trek Belleville (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3828155300/in/set-72157621933633653/): 3sp, f/r racks, dynamo front hub with f/r lights, Shimano Nexus 3 out back.

Also in a mixte (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3828155636/in/set-72157621933633653/) version.

Trek literature says these pay hommage to Porteur bikes, but the English 3sp heritage is much more obvious. MSRP for these on the show display tags is $599, which seems insanely reasonable for what you get, especially considering the derailleur geared but stripped Atwood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3827356575/in/set-72157621933633653/)models are at $499.

New '10 Trek Belleville (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3828155300/in/set-72157621933633653/): 3sp, f/r racks, dynamo front hub with f/r lights, Shimano Nexus 3 out back.

Also in a mixte (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3828155636/in/set-72157621933633653/) version.

Trek literature says these pay hommage to Porteur bikes, but the English 3sp heritage is much more obvious. MSRP for these on the show display tags is $599, which seems insanely reasonable for what you get, especially considering the derailleur geared but stripped Atwood (http://www.flickr.com/photos/24600835@N06/3827356575/in/set-72157621933633653/)models are at $499.

If they can hold that price point AND make in a size large enough for me I would consider one. Any idea what the frame material is?

Aaron:)

[QUOTE=Sixty Fiver;9373702]Back in the early seventies a top of the line Raleigh Superbe listed for 110.00

Just thought I would throw mine up for illustration. Pure, shameless, illustration. ;)

It's a good juxtaposition to the above "Superbe"

I sold my Superbe last year but see it often as the fellow who bought it volunteers at the bike co-op with me and rides past my house on his way to work.

He has dressed the bike out with a honey Brooks B72, Brooks seatbag, and Brooks paniers and it was a beautiful bike to start with... I took these on our last ride together.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/Superbe2008side.jpg

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/Superbe200845front.jpg

That Belleville is as promising a bike as any new bike I have seen in ages. I would love to test ride one.

I did test ride a beautiful double top tube Pashley Guv'nor. Mixed reviews. Truly a pretty bike. The handling was terrible. $1600.00 - Do you know how many really nice vintage bikes I could buy for that amount???

Yes, of course you all do!

In the meantime, I have nearly completed my restoration of a 60's Dawes Realmrider. (yeah, go ahead and try to find some meaningful information online about it... very little.) I took it to the streets today to commute to work with her today before she was ready. I only had a back brake and 3rd gear (she's a ten speed). But she handled so well... I am considering "Sheldoning" her out into a "superbe" hub geared bike.

In the mean time... that Belleville sure looks promising...

If they can hold that price point AND make in a size large enough for me I would consider one. Any idea what the frame material is?

Aaron:)

Steel. Claim is that it is not as destructive to the environment as aluminum and recycles easier. The Belleville is also part of their new Eco line, where they take lifetime of bike into account, including manufacturing and end of life disposal. Even the pedals and seatpost are steel, not to mention the one-piece stem/handlebar setup. Frame and bars are powdercoated for enviro reasons as well. Real classy looking, especially with the retro logo and headbadge. I believe these are due out in October or so. No word on the weight; I expect it will be somewhere north of 30 lbs, though...

Jorg & Olif is the only company in North America to sell Dutch city bikes.

There's a guy in Austin that builds and sells Dutch city bikes. violetcrowncycles.com

I hope that his business does well, particularly because his business is local to Austin.

I ride a Sun Kruizer with a shimano internal 3 spd hub. I'm not particularly impressed with the ratios, and I think that I feel a little bit extra resistance in 2nd or 3rd. 1st seems to be direct drive.

Steel. Claim is that it is not as destructive to the environment as aluminum and recycles easier. The Belleville is also part of their new Eco line, where they take lifetime of bike into account, including manufacturing and end of life disposal. Even the pedals and seatpost are steel, not to mention the one-piece stem/handlebar setup. Frame and bars are powdercoated for enviro reasons as well. Real classy looking, especially with the retro logo and headbadge. I believe these are due out in October or so. No word on the weight; I expect it will be somewhere north of 30 lbs, though...

Thanks, weights north of 30# don't bother me, I typically ride steel bike with weights over 40#. Steel is easier to recycle and is better environmentally to produce than aluminum (uses a whole lot less energy). Powdercoat does away with the chemical carriers that evaporate off into the environment, among other things.

I will be interested to see what the size range will be. Too many manufacturers stop at around 23"/58cm, if they go that far in their frame sizing. I really need something in the 25"/60cm+ size range.

Aaron:)

There's a guy in Austin that builds and sells Dutch city bikes. violetcrowncycles.com

I hope that his business does well, particularly because his business is local to Austin.

I ride a Sun Kruizer with a shimano internal 3 spd hub. I'm not particularly impressed with the ratios, and I think that I feel a little bit extra resistance in 2nd or 3rd. 1st seems to be direct drive.

Take a look at www.dutchbikes.us or http://clevercycles.com or dutchbikeseattle.com. Also, see CETMA, Metrofiets, and Organic Engines.

That appears to be a Brooks B-66. They came standard on the Raleigh Superbe. The Sports had the B-72 and the DL-1 Tourist had the B-73.

The Pashley Guvnor's geometry makes it suitable for conversion to a roadster. That what I made
over into mine.

Pashley's are all hand-built, reflected in the premium price and selection of equipment. My Guvnor is the only Reynolds 531 roadster in existence.