Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

Damn you joek! I saw those and was going to bid on one, but they wouldn't ship. I'm guessing you did local pickup right? Is that seat comfy? It doesn't look too bad.
Yes somewhat local (50 miles away) seat is sprung but narrow,may end up with a GYES saddle. I was very surprised there were no other bids, the other one from this seller went for around $12. things are pretty grim here in Michigan. fwiw joe

You're damn right I'd drive 50 miles for a brand new 3 speed with lugged frame at $10. Great deal, enjoy it!

I just got an e-mail from a certain well-known bike company to the effect that they are planning to introduce an "English three speed" type bike for 2010. It will actually be a seven or eight speed, but it will have an internal hub gear, a set-back seat, built in racks and fenders, backswept handlebars, and an integrated generator lighting system. I won't say which company as I don't want to spill the beans.

So has this bike been announced yet? I'm curious.

The Kona Africa Bike is essentially a modern "English" three-speed. A bit heavy, but it has the cro-mo frame, the three-speed hub, and the tough utility build. I think my knees would prefer at least eight speeds, but I'm considering one.

The Kona Africa Bike is essentially a modern "English" three-speed. A bit heavy, but it has the cro-mo frame, the three-speed hub, and the tough utility build. I think my knees would prefer at least eight speeds, but I'm considering one.

Gary Fisher has the Simple City 3 (men's and women's pictured below) At about $600 these are a little more than the Kona but also in the same vein.

http://nccyclery.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/new-stuff-001.jpg

Don't forget the upgraded 3-speed Flying Pigeon available from www.joe-bike.com (http://www.joe-bike.com) in Portland. They've upgraded many of the components including the front brake, pedals, crank, cog, and IGH. Unfortunately, the shop's clearing out their Flying Pigeons this winter, but they've got some great bargains on all 3 models (single speed, 3-speed and 8-speed).

http://www.joe-bike.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/black-step-through-pigeon.jpg

I got a 1966 Hercules men's three-speed from craigslist yesterday. It's in very good condition. The rust is coming off readily with a brass brush wheel attached to my drill. The paint is a wonderful bright red.

I took it on an errand today. And as I suspected, it doesn't ride that great. I guess I like a lighter bike with more aggressive geometry. I'm going to try changing the position. I'll move the seat back and the stem down. I might get a stem with a longer reach. But as I suspected, this is not the perfect town bike for me.

It is lovely, though.

I am sorry that I have not followed this thread and have only read the first page or so..

Where I live, many people ride a single-speed Atlas or Hero made in India patterned on the old (pre-WW II) British single-speed bicycle. The rims are steel and are 28".

It seems to me that if a 3-speed hub would be used in place of the s-s one, then you would have the type of bike the OP yearned for. The Indian saddles are imitation leather but are very comfortable with their rear coiled springs. Pretty cheap too - and heavy and durable. Where I live the bikes go for less than $100 US. However, in the USA there would be importer's profits, etc.

Just a thought :-)

134124134125134126134127:thumb:

Beautiful specimen, juls.

134124134125134126134127:thumb:

Nice. Chrome and paint look great. What year? 70s?

Thanks for the comp. It's a 73. Intoduceing year for the self adjusting brake levers.
Since has new tires and tubes. Would be sweet with cream tires on there-but can't justify the cost on a non-rider.

What is it, a show bike?! ;)

Not a show-Just too big for me.

Wow. I've always loved the Brit bikes and the Dutch and Dutch styled bikes. My problem is I'm too bloody short for most of them. The itch to ride something with an upright seating position became a necessity so I began looking online for the various iterations or the classic three speed. I ended up getting a GT Aerostream through REI for $320.00 and change. Haven't had the chance to ride it yet because this is central MN. The Aerostream has a three speed internal hub, fenders (although the front fender isn't long enough in the rear) with a Gates belt instead of a chain. Plastic chain guard but it works. 700c wheels and came with sprung luggage rack and panniers. Pull back bar. Aluminum frame and chro fork. Out the door for three hundred for a new bike.

I know it won't stack up in any way to the Pashleys and Raleighs etc but for a short person there really isn't too much from which to choose. I'm not hard on my bikes so this GT Aerostream ought to hold up. Still going to keep an eye out for a build candidate or better yet, the real thing. Around here though, they're equivalent to hen's teeth.

Just thought I'd throw out this bike as a potential option for those who read this wonderful thread and want a modern variant of some of the features which the classic utility machines were appreciated.

Harv

I am sorry that I have not followed this thread and have only read the first page or so..

Where I live, many people ride a single-speed Atlas or Hero made in India patterned on the old (pre-WW II) British single-speed bicycle. The rims are steel and are 28".

It seems to me that if a 3-speed hub would be used in place of the s-s one, then you would have the type of bike the OP yearned for. The Indian saddles are imitation leather but are very comfortable with their rear coiled springs. Pretty cheap too - and heavy and durable. Where I live the bikes go for less than $100 US. However, in the USA there would be importer's profits, etc.

Just a thought :-)

Velo Orange imports a Indian roadster IIRC. Also there are a number of importers and/or dealers for the Chinese Flying Pigeon Raleigh roadster clones. Unfortunately prices here are considerably above the $100 you mention.

I have no idea whether the Indian or Chinese made bikes are better mechanically and in quality of finish.

Shimano has announced a 11 speed Alfine hub for late 2010 scheduled delivery, at least in Europe. Several interesting features per the initial announcement including oil bath lubrication like the Rohloff IGH and a 409% overall range. With presumably a 135mm OLD it will not fit older IGH frames though without frame modifications.

Velo Orange imports a Indian roadster IIRC. Also there are a number of importers and/or dealers for the Chinese Flying Pigeon Raleigh roadster clones. Unfortunately prices here are considerably above the $100 you mention.

I have no idea whether the Indian or Chinese made bikes are better mechanically and in quality of finish.


AFAIK know Velo-Orange (http://www.velo-orange.com/) does not have the Indian Roadster, I suspect you meant Yellow Jersey in Madison, WI (http://www.yellowjersey.org/EASTMAN.HTML);)

All the Flying Pigeons and Indian built roadsters I have seen have been of dubious quality for the prices involved. Best deal I have seen on the FP has been from Morgan Imports in NC (http://stores.homestead.com/morganimports/-strse-Flying-Pigeon-Bikes/Categories.bok).

Aaron:)

How about this take on the Old English Three Speed.
I redid my wife's Dahon Classic with a bit of an English flair.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?621880-Dahon-Classic-Refurb-Burberry-English-theme

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/kingfish254/Burberry%20Dahon/beforeafter.jpg

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/kingfish254/Burberry%20Dahon/bagleft.jpg

The work on that Dahon is just amazing...

Doing my part...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleighsports2.JPG
1954 Raleigh Sports 700c road conversion

How about this take on the Old English Three Speed.
I redid my wife's Dahon Classic with a bit of an English flair.


http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/kingfish254/Burberry%20Dahon/bagleft.jpg


Nice job!:thumb: Reminds me of the Raleigh Compact RSW.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/40592/2878056090066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Nice job!:thumb: Reminds me of the Raleigh Compact RSW.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb17.webshots.com/40592/2878056090066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

I like your RSW. Here is her Dahon next to my Raleigh Twenty.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/kingfish254/Burberry%20Dahon/IMG_6278.jpg

Sixty Fiver, I like that. What brake levers are they?

You're not much into chainguards, are you? I suddenly saw the wisdom in them, now that I have a Twenty and a Sports (knockoff). I can jump on the bike without tying up my trousers, even when they're fancy wool trousers. I suppose it would be best if you could get a while plastic one to match the fenders, but that would be a rare find.

Sixty Fiver, I like that. What brake levers are they?

You're not much into chainguards, are you? I suddenly saw the wisdom in them, now that I have a Twenty and a Sports (knockoff). I can jump on the bike without tying up my trousers, even when they're fancy wool trousers. I suppose it would be best if you could get a while plastic one to match the fenders, but that would be a rare find.

I like chain guards a great deal and if I could find a full chain case for this bike I'd install it in a heartbeat.

The brake levers are Dia Compes and I have them mated to some NOS Dia Compe G500 brakes... the action is very light and the braking is rather excellent even with the stock pads.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleighsportsbars1.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleighsportsfront.JPG

I like chain guards a great deal and if I could find a full chain case for this bike I'd install it in a heartbeat.

The brake levers are Dia Compes and I have them mated to some NOS Dia Compe G500 brakes... the action is very light and the braking is rather excellent even with the stock pads.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleighsportsbars1.JPG

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleighsportsfront.JPG

That is one helluva bell you have.

I wish I could find a chainguard for my Twenty.

I like your RSW. Here is her Dahon next to my Raleigh Twenty.

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac348/kingfish254/Burberry%20Dahon/IMG_6278.jpg

We like Twentys too...:innocent:

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/44146/2205288730066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

We like Twentys too...:innocent:

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/44146/2205288730066886751S500x500Q85.jpg

Beautiful his and hers Twenties! The old Englishman, that I bought my Twenty from a month or so ago, gave me a call tonight and let me know he fold the chainguard. I am going to pick it up tomorrow. I had just wished for the chainguard about two or three posts before in this very thread.

That is one helluva bell you have.

I wish I could find a chainguard for my Twenty.

Looks like you found your chain guard... I have several spares here but they are gold.

Those 20s sure are nifty looking! I have a 73 Raleigh Sports I am accessorising. A 20 would be perfect for my wife who is a little wobbly on bikes. I shall have to look around. Not many of them out there in Eastern WA state!

Don't buy one without her trying it. They're MORE wobbly than full size wheel bikes.

Just saw a really nice vesion at local bike shop the head mechanic there took a Rivendell Quickbeam (single speed frame) and built a 3 spd hub. He put drop bars on and didn't like the twist shifter, so he managed to modify a 3 speed lever shifter to use a campy lever, to go with the cranks. Add aluminum velo orange fenders, berthould bags and brooks saddle....... nice

http://willowglenbicycles.com/index.cfm

Don't buy one without her trying it. They're MORE wobbly than full size wheel bikes.

Have to disagree with you here... the Twenty handles differently than other bikes due to the steering damper in the headset but is an exceptionally stable bike that is very forgiving in it's handling due to it's lower centre of gravity. I love shopping on my Twenty as you can load up panniers to the max and the ride and handling do not change by any noticeble degree.


My daughter loves her 20 inch wheels on her Raleigh Saffron as although she is not tall enough to ride a 26 inch wheeled bike she finds this ladies bike to be incredibly stable... with a conventional headset the Saffron's handling is a little smoother.

Like every bike, it takes a little period of adjustment to get used to a Twenty as they are pretty agile bikes and the steering is much quicker than a larger wheeled bike... this is an advantage when you are dodging potholes although you can roll a Twenty through these or right into curbs without them suffering any serious damage.

OK, wobbly is the wrong word. Agile is good. And it responds to steering input rapidly. I'm not sure this is good for a low-skill rider.

OK, wobbly is the wrong word. Agile is good. And it responds to steering input rapidly. I'm not sure this is good for a low-skill rider.

I have taught several adults to ride using the Twenty. It is great in that the seat can be easily lowered so they can put their feet on the ground. Also with the low step through height of the frame they feel much more comfortable if the have to bail.

Aaron :)

My daughter's 1980 Saffron on the day I brought it home... the saddle position could have been a little higher but the stock post was never made for someone with a 33 inch inseam and she is only four foot two (with eyes of brown).

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/shopper1.jpg

The Saffron is a Raleigh branded bike that was made in Italy, the headset is marked "Made in Italy" and it has an Italian bottom bracket... figure I will continue to upgrade this bike for as long as my daughter has it as she can ride it forever.

Have a Campy bottom bracket for it and will upgrade the cranks next, have already done the wheels, and will probably put in a wider range internal gear hub at some point.

My daughter's 1980 Saffron on the day I brought it home... the saddle position could have been a little higher but the stock post was never made for someone with a 33 inch inseam and she is only four foot two (with eyes of brown).

The Saffron is a Raleigh branded bike that was made in Italy, the headset is marked "Made in Italy" and it has an Italian bottom bracket... figure I will continue to upgrade this bike for as long as my daughter has it as she can ride it forever.

Have a Campy bottom bracket for it and will upgrade the cranks next, have already done the wheels, and will probably put in a wider range internal gear hub at some point.

Here is an example of the size range for a Twenty. Mine is the one with about 350mm of seat post exposed.:innocent:

I run a saddle to pedal measurement in the 38" range, my bride was riding the other one.;)

She is 14" shorter than I am, and typical of many women has short legs and a long torso. She can ride my Twenty with no problem, but I can't ride hers with the stock seat post.:o

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/43837/2269311670066886751S600x600Q85.jpg

Aaron:)

Maybe one of you can help me out Id this 3spd. It is black in color has "Executive" on the Seat Tube and on the Head Tube it has "Sports 2000 Made in Germany" . Tried Sheldon Brown's site for Raleigh and nothing. Appreciate the help. Thanks

There were some bikes that looked very much like the English ones, made in Austria and Germany. I had one, and it had an American name! Quality was at least as good as the English. Bolts were metric rather than Whitworth, which is a nice change.

Almost in focus, but startled.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC01900.jpg

Less in focus but more relaxed after I told her "I love your bike!".
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC01901.jpg

More of a Dutch bike than English I guess, but I couldn't find the Dutch bike thread. Moderators please assist.

Almost in focus, but startled.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC01900.jpg

Less in focus but more relaxed after I told her "I love your bike!".
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC01901.jpg

More of a Dutch bike than English I guess, but I couldn't find the Dutch bike thread. Moderators please assist.

Chinese 3 speed:innocent:;)

That is an Electra one of the Alexander Girard models, they don't make that color anymore. It is definitely a 3 speed just not English. Perhaps we can allow it as an honorable mention, plus the fact it is being ridden with joy!:thumb:

Aaron:)

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I brought back, to Canada, from England, one British 5 speed. It's a Pashley Roadster 26 Sovereign. Made in Stratford-upon-Avon, England, in the same fashion they've been doing things for 85 years. I've a big basket on the way for the rear, thinking of a handlebar one as well for extra carrying capacity.

I road it to and from work yesterday, and despite some horrid conditions (100kph winds!), I had a ball! Siting bolt upright totally changes your perspective on the areas you ride though. It's also nice in that it likely makes you more visible as you tower (as towering as you get when you're 5'5"!) over the traffic. The ride is so smooth and relaxed, I love it. I've been grinning like a fool for every km I've traveled on it!

So far the only down sides are the drum brakes which definitely don't stop anywhere nearly as quickly as what I've got accustomed to, which is fine as the bike certainly doesn't go as fast as my others. Also the Sturmy-Archer 5 speed hub is not nearly as smooth shifting as Nexus hubs I've tried and the gear change lever is low quality plastic.

Those two niggles aside I love this bike! Makes me dream of what riding bikes like this in great cycling centers like Copenhagen or Amsterdam must be like.

I brought back, to Canada, from England, one British 5 speed. It's a Pashley Roadster 26 Sovereign. Made in Stratford-upon-Avon, England, in the same fashion they've been doing things for 85 years. I've a big basket on the way for the rear, thinking of a handlebar one as well for extra carrying capacity.

I road it to and from work yesterday, and despite some horrid conditions (100kph winds!), I had a ball! Siting bolt upright totally changes your perspective on the areas you ride though. It's also nice in that it likely makes you more visible as you tower (as towering as you get when you're 5'5"!) over the traffic. The ride is so smooth and relaxed, I love it. I've been grinning like a fool for every km I've traveled on it!

So far the only down sides are the drum brakes which definitely don't stop anywhere nearly as quickly as what I've got accustomed to, which is fine as the bike certainly doesn't go as fast as my others. Also the Sturmy-Archer 5 speed hub is not nearly as smooth shifting as Nexus hubs I've tried and the gear change lever is low quality plastic.

Those two niggles aside I love this bike! Makes me dream of what riding bikes like this in great cycling centers like Copenhagen or Amsterdam must be like.

Nice bike! The drum brakes should improve a bit with some break in. I have Shimano roller brakes on one of my bikes and they stop just fine, but it is a different feeling from the rim brakes. First time you have to stop in sloppy weather you will really appreciate them.

Aaron :)

Chinese 3 speed:innocent:;)

That is an Electra one of the Alexander Girard models, they don't make that color anymore. It is definitely a 3 speed just not English. Perhaps we can allow it as an honorable mention, plus the fact it is being ridden with joy!:thumb:

Aaron:)

Aaron;

At least companies like Electra and Globe are trying to bring back reasonably practical IGH city bikes even if not the classic English Roadster. If you have the money Pashleys are available as posted about on this page too or a number of other still "Made in Europe" alternatives, some of which are remarkably close to the old English 3 speed bikes, including the weight!

The main difficulty with importing and selling true European made IGH bikes here is the current price, due to worldwide inflation and a weak dollar. The English or Dutch 3 speed bike that sold for less than $100 in the mid 1950's will now cost closer to $2000, which shocks people. They do not consider that the full size Chevy that cost $1300 in the same period will now cost $25,000 minimum. BTW $1300 is what my dad told me he paid for his Chevy Biscayne, new in 53.

At the low end bicycles have remained amazingly inexpensive due to a combination of mass production for world markets and the move of manufacturing to very cheap labor countries such as China. Of course at the lowest level many of them are more "Bike shaped objects" than true satisfactory bicycles. But then mass merchandisers have been selling minimalist bikes for close to 100 years in the USA.

Aaron;

At least companies like Electra and Globe are trying to bring back reasonably practical IGH city bikes even if not the classic English Roadster. If you have the money Pashleys are available as posted about on this page too or a number of other still "Made in Europe" alternatives, some of which are remarkably close to the old English 3 speed bikes, including the weight!

The main difficulty with importing and selling true European made IGH bikes here is the current price, due to worldwide inflation and a weak dollar. The English or Dutch 3 speed bike that sold for less than $100 in the mid 1950's will now cost closer to $2000, which shocks people. They do not consider that the full size Chevy that cost $1300 in the same period will now cost $25,000 minimum. BTW $1300 is what my dad told me he paid for his Chevy Biscayne, new in 53.

At the low end bicycles have remained amazingly inexpensive due to a combination of mass production for world markets and the move of manufacturing to very cheap labor countries such as China. Of course at the lowest level many of them are more "Bike shaped objects" than true satisfactory bicycles. But then mass merchandisers have been selling minimalist bikes for close to 100 years in the USA.

I realize the economics of lower priced labor, I was being a bit of a smart-azz.

Electra at one point was billing itself as an "American Bike Company" when in reality all they are is a designer (if that). And their bikes aren't cheap for what you get.

It is my sincere hope that as more of the city type bikes show up on the roadways that the big box store companies will take notice and perhaps decide to sell something similar for a reasonable price. Unfortunately they appear to mostly go by price point alone, so my fear is anything they do sell will end up being a BSO that looks like a city bike.

People used to bash Huffy, Murray and some of the other bikes as absolute garbage. They were of lower quality than Schwinn (subjective) Raleigh and some others. However their basic bikes were of decent enough quality to have survived the 30+ years since the bike boom. I have recently had my hands on a couple of Huffy Baypoints that date from the late 1970's to the early 80's and they were still very serviceable. Were they as durable as say a Raleigh Sports or a Schwinn Collegiate? Probably not, but they cost half as much at the time, but they were still a bicycle and could be ridden for several years with no problems, unlike the BSO's that are out there today.

Aaron :)

I paid $1200 Canadian, including 10% tax, for my English made Pashley above. I've got a great LBS though who knocked off $200 from the retail, which is reasonable as they did not have to stock the bike, just order it. I did the assembly myself. Sure that's a couple of hundred more than a Chinese made bike like an Electra Amsterdam or Trek Belleville, but it was worth it to me, and I suspect many others as well. A quality bike should last a lifetime, why worry about the $200?

I paid $1200 Canadian, including 10% tax, for my English made Pashley above. I've got a great LBS though who knocked off $200 from the retail, which is reasonable as they did not have to stock the bike, just order it. I did the assembly myself. Sure that's a couple of hundred more than a Chinese made bike like an Electra Amsterdam or Trek Belleville, but it was worth it to me, and I suspect many others as well. A quality bike should last a lifetime, why worry about the $200?

You are certainly correct. I'm a cheapskate, however, and as long as there are Raliegh 3 speeds out there, like my all original 70's vintage Sprite, for less than $100 I will go with one of those lifetime bikes.

But I do lust for the Pashley. I love their website and go there to drool often.

Went thru every single page on this thread and have been looking for a suitable 3speed for my wife. After much review and research and also having no luck finding a used one on my local craigslist for months, I pulled the trigger on a KHS Manhattan Green.

- Base High-ten steel (not as heavy as I thought)
- 700c wheels w/fenders
- Shimano Nexus 3spd IGH
- rack/bell/wheel lock/front brakes
- plus comes in a 14' frame

Great price for entry city riding without breaking the bank, so I ended up buying two. One for my mother and one for my wife. Turned out to be smiles for mother's day yesterday all day. Turned out the males in the family were riding it more than the woman. Everyone loved the upright posture and smoothness over their mtn/road bike.

It's no Pashley or Raleigh and I know the quality is only sub par. The only thing that matters is that they are riding and have smiles on their faces. Thanks again BF

Am just heading off to work on a Raleigh Tourist (lady's model) and figure that when it is all done we're probably going to be looking at a $500.00 bike... I hand built the wheels with an S3C hub to augment the rod brakes and it will be getting a new Brooks B72.

Nice Tourists have really come in price of late, thinking that this is because the classic roadster has regained a great deal of popularity and even when they are priced in the 300-400 range they are still a very good deal compared to entry level Dutch bikes like the Batavus.

If one could buy a new Raleigh Superbe modeled after the original (and not the re-issue) it would not be an inexpensive bicycle... if mass produced it would probably run out in the $800.00 range like the Breezer Uptown.

Use better frame tubing and it would move closer to the Pashley's price range.

When I start building frames I will certainly be looking at building classic roadsters with some nice modern touches.

griplimited, ladies three speeds are common around here. It's harder to find a mens in good condition. Where are you?

I looked at the bike you mentioned on the importer's web site (http://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_07.htm). It looks nice, and I think it will provide years of pleasurable and reliable service. Never mind that it's not top of the line.

Im in Los Angeles, CA. Finding anything is hard enough and if you don't respond to the seller within the first 30mins, it's most likely sold. I bought bikes from 2 different sellers who said they sit in front of the pc all day hitting F5 on Craigslist for anything worth reselling. So those bikes I purchased were already turned around on me as one of the seller's didn't mind telling me the price he paid for it.

They are indeed gorgeous bikes and the price really sold me. I was really tempted in the beginning just to get a Flying Pigeon although they only offer one size fits all.

I had a 50cm Motebecane mixte for her originally and was going to rebuilt that, but the frame was still too tall for her to feel comfortable on.