Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

Put a few more hours into that lady's tourist... repacking the headset on a rod brake roadster isn;t quite as straightforward as it is with a modern bike.

Got to take a ride around the block and although the brake pads are not installed the coaster brake works smoothly and has great stopping power.

You guys are gonna like this when it is done... still a lot of work to do though.

I'm looking forward to the final pictures.

Dumb question: Kickstands on English 3 speeds? I'm tempted to add one to my Sprite. Usually I can lean it against something, but not always. Would that Pletscher double kickstand fit, or not? I know I have a Greenfield single somewhere, but I'm thinking a double would be more stable.

Not a dumb question.

Nearly any kickstand will fit and work, and it fits right in character, if you're asking that, too. That includes the Pletscher double and the Greenfield single. The double gets a lot of thumbs up here on bikeforums. I haven't tried one.

I figured, I could always clamp the Greenfield on, I mean, I have it, it should be a 5 minute exercise. The double I don't have, and would have to pay $50 (give or take) to try out.

Right now, my bike is in search of character. Or I should say, the proper character. The Bontrager Race Lux saddle has got to go; the Klickfix(?) handlebar bag is nice but not quite old enough to work. At some point, I need matching tires! Anyhow, I will look into that Pletscher, as I think it might be more stable in usage.

Harris Cyclery speaks highly of the Panaracer Col De La Vie tire (http://harriscyclery.net/product/panaracer-26-x-1-3-8-col-de-la-vie-2669.htm). At that price, it oughta be really good. I'm a fan of Panaracer tires. They ought to spruce up your ride.

Harris Cyclery speaks highly of the Panaracer Col De La Vie tire (http://harriscyclery.net/product/panaracer-26-x-1-3-8-col-de-la-vie-2669.htm). At that price, it oughta be really good. I'm a fan of Panaracer tires. They ought to spruce up your ride.

I get mine from Longleaf Bicycles (http://www.longleafbicycles.com/) in Wilmington, NC. I haven't ridden on the ones I have...yet, but have heard several good reports on them.

Aaron :)

They are OK if you are just tooling about town.. As many of us did a children.. But, as adults bikes take on more rigorous duties.. Can't imagine doing my 1000 foot ascents with only 3 gears.

They are OK if you are just tooling about town.. As many of us did a children.. But, as adults bikes take on more rigorous duties.. Can't imagine doing my 1000 foot ascents with only 3 gears.

I can't rightly RECOMMEND a 3-speed for 1000 foot ascents, but now you've gone and challenged me. Let me see how big the biggest hill near here is and climb it on my 3-speed. How do I look that up?

How much do you drive? I figure, any hill that I have downshift in my car is going to be, err, fun on the bicycle. ;)

Anyhow, mapmyride.com used to be free--I haven't been there in a while--and it'd give you elevation data on a route. Very simple to use, make a new route and figure out distance, etc. Maybe google maps will have something similar by now.

If you do try this, you might want to think about gearing down, depending upon how steep it is. 3-5% might not be too bad, with 19T or 20T, in low gear, depending upon your legs. Much steeper and you might walk. Meh. I've got no use for a single speed, what with my hills; but some one in Florida might have no use for my 30T granny chainring.

All true, but I'd rather live in hilly country. I took some rides around Ludlow, VT this past February, and assuming your hills are like those, you have my admiration and respect!

I'll see if I can find elevation data around here. I'm pretty sure the highest town for a long way is West Orange. I remember making a wrong turn at the top there many years ago. I decided I wasn't going back up, so I went around that hill. Somehow, I did it without a map, and I didn't know the area at the time.

Here's one from my local online buy & sell site: http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-ViewAdLargeImage?AdId=203979155
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/3/1139314/english%203%20speed%20ladies.jpg

That's an excellent bike in excellent shape, at an excellent price. (http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-sports-bikes-Classis-english-style-3-speed-bicycle-step-through-W0QQAdIdZ203979155)

That's an excellent bike in excellent shape, at an excellent price. (http://ottawa.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell-sports-bikes-Classis-english-style-3-speed-bicycle-step-through-W0QQAdIdZ203979155)


I know, I have sent an email inquiring if it's still available. :D

Nice looking.

I've found that the steel rims aren't as bad as I remembered them, in terms of braking. Haven't tried them wet, though. I don't let the bike get much speed going down hills, though, as I know it won't stop on a dime. But, I do have strong hands, so that helps--the brake levers do seem to lack mechanical advantage.

As for hills, I think VT has worse hills. I have few long sustained climbs--most are short and steep. IMO, you just have to get used to it. OTOH, while it's humbling to grunt on seemingly flat ground for a couple of miles, it's very sweet to turn around and high tail it back--on seemingly flat ground. :lol:

I rode my 3speed in the rain yesterday. Brakes were pretty much non-existent. I'll try Kool Stop brake shoes. It was pretty scary. Good thing I took lightly traveled streets.

Tom - Kool Stop Continentals ftw.

You know that you can also by a Sun CR18 in the 26 by 1 3/8 size and rebuild the wheels to a better than new standard, lighten it up, and increase the brakig performance even more.

I have found that the alloy calipers offered on some 3 speed models are inferior to the steel Raleigh side pulls. My Twenty has a modern BMX caliper (single brake) and alloy wheels and stops very well.

Yes, I might do that. But this bike is in better shape than I need, so maybe I should sell it. The brakes work quite well in the dry. I'm looking for an uglier three speed for myself.

I did put a pair of CR-18's on a German 3speed. You might remember that. It went extremely well.

Yes, the Altenbergers on my Twenty are lousy, and the steel sidepulls on my Hercules are good. Funny, that. I'll find some long reach sidepulls for the Twenty some day. Or maybe I'll try my hand at brazing, and I'll put on some brake bosses, the way John S Allen did on his Twenty.

For those still running steel rims, Mark Stonich of Bikesmith Design is supposed to have Fibrax Raincheater brake pads available. They were long considered the best pads for steel rims in wet conditions and are apparently still being made.

I have no experience with current pads on steel rims but believe they are all designed for aluminum, carbon or ceramic coated aluminum rims primarily.

He also has stainless steel SA trigger shifter inner cables and for those who want to do a brake upgrade he has the Tektro 800A quite long reach dual pivot brakes available. He reports the 800A works quite well on many older bikes originally fitted with center pull brakes.

I believe that he also does work on older SA hubs and has parts available for some of the less common models.

(612) 824-2372

http://bikesmithdesign.com/

BTW I have no business relationship with Bikesmith or Mark. He is an active member of the Yahoo Geared Hub Bikes group linked to in my signature block below and seems to be very knowledgeable regarding SA hubs.

I buy bits and bobs (http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/bits+and+bobs.html) from Mark/Bikesmith Design all the time. He has just about anything you could need in terms of spare parts for the Sturmey Hubs. He will also work on the hubs for you if need be. He also makes the awesome cotter press (http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html) and fixed cup remover (http://bikesmithdesign.com/BBTool/index.html). Both tools are all but priceless if you have a stable of English bikes to maintain, works well on French bikes with cottered cranks too. ;)

Aaron :)

Was a 3 speed... now it is a utilitarian 3 speed.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/1954raleigh2010c.JPG

I wish I could find a loop frame English bike like this thread is about....I have one more bike I can add to my stable and that is what I'm looking for:( I keep missing them here though and it makes me sad

Fiona - Bicycle Repair Man is on the job... thinking that you won't have to wait as long as you think.

Fiona - Bicycle Repair Man is on the job... thinking that you won't have to wait as long as you think.

You will win my Bike Repair Man of the Year then:) plus coffffeeeee:) Because everyone likes coffee!:)

You will win my Bike Repair Man of the Year then:) plus coffffeeeee:) Because everyone likes coffee!:)

You have mail... :)

You have mail... :)
I just msg'd you back:)

I saw a few bikes at a vintage bike show today that you may enjoy. I had something very similar to this '63 Raleigh Rollfast, but mine was a Hercules. Mine was probably a cheap imitation, it did not have center-pull brakes, but it had the same twist shifter and was of the same vintage.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC03320.jpg

Bring back the English 4-speed. A '53 Ephgrave.
http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC03336.jpg

http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr147/Rod_Smith/bike/DSC03337.jpg

The brakes and levers and cranks are not original on the Rollfast. The levers are the wrong type for the handlebars.

The Ephgrave is gorgeous.

I can't rightly RECOMMEND a 3-speed for 1000 foot ascents, but now you've gone and challenged me. Let me see how big the biggest hill near here is and climb it on my 3-speed. How do I look that up?

Well, what the Classic English 3-speed lacks are the intermediate gears. As a teenager mine was locked into high, if the hill, anything more than and expressway over pass was too steep for high, I got off and pushed. I usually found pushing faster than riding in low gear, so when the indicator chain broke I never bothered to replace it.

These bikes were never intended for speed, what they are great for is cruising along a 10-15mph looking at the scenery. They are also great utility bicycle for use in a 5 mile radius. But of course there have been folks who rode them around the world. The French style (alpine tourer, with a 5-6 speed derailleur would have been preferred for touring in the alps. Also the bikes were never intended for super serious cyclists, they were used by folks who had one bicycle that they rode to work during the week, maybe club raced on saturday, and toured on their vacations. That kind of thing was kind of unique with the British, they had bicyles like that, motor cycles like that, and cars like that.

"Also the bikes were never intended for super serious cyclists, they were used by folks who had one bicycle that they rode to work during the week, maybe club raced on saturday, and toured on their vacations."

This sounds serious to me.

:)

These types of bikes are serious machines. When set-up for the task(s) the owner needed they performed almost flawlessly for years. As far as speed is concerned, I have ridden my Raleigh Trent Sports, similar to the above noted Ephgrave but not quite as nice, with it's S/A FW four speed hub gear on a 25 mile loop that I used to ride my TREK 1000 road bike and was only 5 min's slower. I'm not a racer type but I do travel quickly on the RTS. Now the Raleigh DL-1 and Sports, those are the bikes for seeing the country side, such as it is here in SoCal. But, they too can do the same 25 mile loop but 20 to 15 min's longer respectively. PG.

"Also the bikes were never intended for super serious cyclists, they were used by folks who had one bicycle that they rode to work during the week, maybe club raced on saturday, and toured on their vacations."

This sounds serious to me.

:)

Also sounds like the kind of bike I want...

I just got a Motobecane Grand Jubile and am wanting to replace the drivetrain on it, as I'm not too happy with how the Huret Derailleurs are working on it. Since it isn't really working at the moment I've switched to riding my Sears 3 speed, and now I'm starting to think the Motobecane would make a nice 3-speed. I've been on a few rides with the 3-speed around town and the surrounding country, and had an easier time climbing the hills than my dad on his hybrid. I think I would want to use the Motobecane in a way similar to the quoted post above, but I'm not sure if I would be fine riding in areas I've never been with a somewhat limited gear range. Maybe if I can manage to ride my 3-speed up my friends driveway then it means I'd be fine. When it is iced over in the winter most cars can't even get up it.

Unless your father's bike was way out of tune, your success probably means you're stronger than he is. A modern hybrid really ought to be easier to ride than an old English 3-speed.

However, I hit pay dirt this weekend. I went to an estate sale and picked up two fantastic 3-speeds. One is a Rudge, and I think it's from before 1960. To me, the Rudge is the holy grail of English 3-speeds. It's completely in tact. The front wheel has a broken spoke. The other is a ladies' Robin Hood, probably from about the same time, also completely in tact. It has a front caliper brake and a 3-speed coaster brake rear hub.

I haven't inspected them yet. They're extremely dirty.

Unless your father's bike was way out of tune, your success probably means you're stronger than he is. A modern hybrid really ought to be easier to ride than an old English 3-speed.

However, I hit pay dirt this weekend. I went to an estate sale and picked up two fantastic 3-speeds. One is a Rudge, and I think it's from before 1960. To me, the Rudge is the holy grail of English 3-speeds. It's completely in tact. The front wheel has a broken spoke. The other is a ladies' Robin Hood, probably from about the same time, also completely in tact. It has a front caliper brake and a 3-speed coaster brake rear hub.

I haven't inspected them yet. They're extremely dirty.

Pictures!

I shot them today. I'll upload them tomorrow.

"Also the bikes were never intended for super serious cyclists, they were used by folks who had one bicycle that they rode to work during the week, maybe club raced on saturday, and toured on their vacations."

This sounds serious to me.

:)

I of course meant "serious" as in serious racing bicycle. People who were seriously into racing had one of them. The British were almost unique in producing "Sports" vehicles, that were meant as commuters during the week, racers on Saturday, and tourers on Sunday. Most other cultures seemed to think you bought a go to work vehicle, a shopping vehicle, a racing vehicle, and a touring vehicle. They also seemed to think you would hire a mechanic to keep them all in working order, which probably meant that they never were intended for working class people at all. So, I guess that means you can consider the English 3-speed as a working class peoples bicycle. Remember back then "working class" meant a non-union factory worker with an income of a couple thousand dollars a year.

160465 chinese golden pigeon with AW 3 speed hub.

I picked up an Origin8 cykel 3 (http://www.origin-8.com/product_detail.php?short_code=Cykel+3&cl1=BICYCLES) last Saturday. Pretty close to an old Raleigh. It's even got a lugged frame and lugged flat crown fork. After three rides and maybe 60 miles total I can say its' a lot lighter , faster, and easier to ride than my Phillips or Rudge. Probably not as rugged over the long haul but who knows? It's of a quality similar to any major brand of bike. Best of all since I think these are a J&B Imports product most if not all bike shops should be able to get you one. My Rudge is about to be torn down for a complete overhaul and restoration with some upgrades such as aluminum rims. The Cykel 3 takes the edge off not having the Rudge road worthy. Looks darn pretty too.

Very nice. Are you thinking of putting fenders on it?

I've put planet bike fenders on it and swapped the stock quill pedals for some grippier rat traps since I'm running without toe clips. (Nice to see it come with aluminum quill pedals instead of the disposable pedals you usually get, the bearings were a little rough but still, not too shabby)

I also added a nice Avenir handlebar bag and just ordered a euro style fender mount tail lamp (Spanninga SPXb) and headlamp (Spanninga Luceo xb) from Peter White cycles. I'm in the middle of some business travel (forced to be riding indoors in summer on fitness room exercise bikes..grrr) so no pics yet. Will post some in about a week once I'm back and the lights are installed.

I see your English 3-speed, and raise you a German 3-speed, with chainless drive: http://ron521.homestead.com/FendtShaftDrive.html

162213

I agree. I love the roadsters. 162253I missed my old Raleigh 3-speed I had and loved in the '70s, so found and bought these 2 on Craigslist today. A Sports and a Colt, 1973. They look new! I am so excited. I rode the Sports up & down the street today. The Colt needs new tubes. Helps with T de F withdrawal :)

Public Bicycles makes what is essentially a slightly updated British 3 speed, although you can get it as a single speed, or an 8 speed as well. Fully chome-moly frame and fork, alloy components, weight in the high 20/low 30 lb range...what more could you ask for?

http://publicbikes.com/BIKES

http://publicbikes.com/prodimages/800/70239_7.jpg

Public Bicycles makes what is essentially a slightly updated British 3 speed, although you can get it as a single speed, or an 8 speed as well. Fully chome-moly frame and fork, alloy components, weight in the high 20/low 30 lb range...what more could you ask for?

http://publicbikes.com/BIKES

http://publicbikes.com/prodimages/800/70239_7.jpg

Pricey for what you appear to getting and no real world geometry or dimensions....

Aaron :)

Public Bicycles makes what is essentially a slightly updated British 3 speed, although you can get it as a single speed, or an 8 speed as well. Fully chome-moly frame and fork, alloy components, weight in the high 20/low 30 lb range...what more could you ask for?

http://publicbikes.com/BIKES"] ("http://publicbikes.com/prodimages/800/70239_7.jpg[/IMG)

I disagree as no one men's frame is going to properly fit a range of riders from 5'3" to 6'5". Even with stem and bar adjustments it is not going to be a good fit for the full range of people IMO. One of the big problems with most inexpensive bikes such as cruisers and Walmart grade BSOs is the limited range of sizes.

Aaron... A Raleigh Sports cost $120.00 in the very early seventies... with inflation that $120 is now $628.00

I disagree as no one men's frame is going to properly fit a range of riders from 5'3" to 6'5". Even with stem and bar adjustments it is not going to be a good fit for the full range of people IMO. One of the big problems with most inexpensive bikes such as cruisers and Walmart grade BSOs is the limited range of sizes.
The men's frames are available in three different sizes.

Aaron: Frame dimensions are not posted on the website, however they are available for the asking, just shoot an email to Public and you'll receive an .xlsx file.
Tatfield: The Public is available in three sizes, much like the Raleigh Sports I purchased new in 1976 which was available in 19, 21, and 23 inches. The Large size Public appears to be proportioned very similar to my 23 inch Raleigh and my 23 inch Triumph.
Assuming that frame dimensions and geometry are at least similar, if not necessarily identical (and they look as if they are similar), then comparing specs for the Public and my old Raleigh Sports are quite revealing.
The Raleigh doesn't have a single alloy component anywhere, neither rims, stem, bars, seat post, crankset, brakes or brake levers. Everything is just chromed steel, durable but heavy. All these components are alloy on the Public.
The frame was merely brazed Hi-Tensile, not TIG welded Chrome-moly, so was heavier AND not as strong.
The saddle was a heavy, non-ergonomic mattress.
The only tangible feature the Raleigh has which the Public does not appears to be a "Made In England" decal on the frame.
Taking inflation into account, the Public 3 speed appears to be a vastly superior product for almost exactly the same price.

Aaron: Frame dimensions are not posted on the website, however they are available for the asking, just shoot an email to Public and you'll receive an .xlsx file.
Tatfield: The Public is available in three sizes, much like the Raleigh Sports I purchased new in 1976 which was available in 19, 21, and 23 inches. The Large size Public appears to be proportioned very similar to my 23 inch Raleigh and my 23 inch Triumph.
Assuming that frame dimensions and geometry are at least similar, if not necessarily identical (and they look as if they are similar), then comparing specs for the Public and my old Raleigh Sports are quite revealing.
The Raleigh doesn't have a single alloy component anywhere, neither rims, stem, bars, seat post, crankset, brakes or brake levers. Everything is just chromed steel, durable but heavy. All these components are alloy on the Public.
The frame was merely brazed Hi-Tensile, not TIG welded Chrome-moly, so was heavier AND not as strong.
The saddle was a heavy, non-ergonomic mattress.
The only tangible feature the Raleigh has which the Public does not appears to be a "Made In England" decal on the frame.
Taking inflation into account, the Public 3 speed appears to be a vastly superior product for almost exactly the same price.

Raleigh was touted as the All Steel Bicycle for a reason, that was the pinnacle of technology when it was designed (early in the 20th century). It was durable and affordable. Possibly the Public is the Raleigh of today with alloy parts. I think Public is doing a disservice by NOT having the specifications readily available on their website.

Aaron :)

Aaron... A Raleigh Sports cost $120.00 in the very early seventies... with inflation that $120 is now $628.00

I must have a different calculator or pricing. A 1969 Superbe was selling for ~$75usd which would be ~$450usd in 2009. I know there was a fair bit of fluctuation in pricing, exchange rates, and tariffs that will have affected the prices and the inflation. I would consider ~$500-$600 about the right price point, but I would expect to see some form of lighting included in that price.

You currently have the KHS Green (http://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_09.htm) and the Torker T300 (http://www.torkerusa.com/bikes/commuter-life/2010-t300) going for under $400 and I consider both of those to be equivalent to the old Raleigh Sports. Torker has the edge IMHO because the frames are available in 5 different sizes including the XL which is what I ride.

As far as the Public is concerned, they would go a long ways in public relations if they would post their specifications on their website. I am constantly looking for bicycles to recommend to people who see some of my bikes and want a "real" bike not a BSO or a "million dollar racing machine" (not my words but from someone else, but I thought it was pretty good). So far Torker has been one of my top recomendations. Not many shops stock them, but just about any shop with an account with SBS (Seattle Bicycle Supply) can order one. If I were setting up a shop, I would definitely consider featuring the Torker line.


Aaron :)