Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

I saw a old British bike catalog from about fifty years ago that showed a three speed hub on a race quality frame. That sort of bike would be a terrific "in-town" bike...maybe someone will start selling one again. Who wouldn't want a 20 pound commuting bike with a reliable three speed hub?

I saw a old British bike catalog from about fifty years ago that showed a three speed hub on a race quality frame. That sort of bike would be a terrific "in-town" bike...maybe someone will start selling one again. Who wouldn't want a 20 pound commuting bike with a reliable three speed hub?
Wimps like me who live in hilly places want a 7 or 8 speed. :o

I agree that old English three-speeds have their drawbacks, but they are a very nice ride. You can find them on eBay for a couple hundred dollars.

And there is at least one importer of Indian knock-offs of the old Raleigh Sports/Superbe three-speed. They are only a couple hundred dollars. A little rough around the edges, but a true transportation cycle.

See CyclesValhalla.com. (Assurance: I'm completely unrelated to them.)

Mark McClure

A store in Vancover sells those "Amsterdam" style bikes and is doing very well.

http://www.springwise.com/pix/spotlight/jorgolif.gif

Jorg & Olif is the only company in North America to sell Dutch city bikes. Their bicycles, sourced from a small traditional factory northeast of Amsterdam, are priced from CAD 875 for a 1-speed Oma (hers) or Opa (his) version. Three and eight speed versions are also available. The company currently only ships within Canada, and operates from a gallery-like lifestyle store in Vancouver. (in downtown Vancouver, about 33 per cent of people travel by foot and bicycle, approximately 28 percent take transit, and 39 per cent drive)


Dont forget RAINCITYBIKES! they have two locations in Vancouver and carry a ton of of Dutch city bikes, cargo bikes and commercial transport bikes :)

I see one of those bikes being ridden everyday by a lady who has to be about 70... The bike looks like it was her coming of age present, but i live by the coast where there are 1:3 hills....

Cornish old people live forever and die with thighs made of girders... :D

Hub gears seem to be coming back to popularity over here - i suppose the modern equivalent of that bike would a not-too-high-end hybrid..? Just got back from london and virtually every bike i saw (except for uber-bling fixies) was a flat bar hybrid with skinny tyres and v-brakes. The real problem with the old-style roadster was that the brakes were pathetic to non-existent...


And the primary reason more people don't ride bikes is because they are afraid of traffic.

People tend to gasp when i say i ride in traffic. Despite the fact that out of 3300 (approx) road deaths in the UK last year only 164 were cyclists (motorcyclists make up 40% of deaths but only 4% of traffic), they seem to think that cars are safer...

I saw a old British bike catalog from about fifty years ago that showed a three speed hub on a race quality frame. That sort of bike would be a terrific "in-town" bike...maybe someone will start selling one again. Who wouldn't want a 20 pound commuting bike with a reliable three speed hub?


Alan,
Those are "Club Racers" or Clubman (http://retroraleighs.com/clubman-kohler.html) models. I am not aware of a modern version of one. But that won't stop me from building my own!:D I have a 1976 Dawes Galaxy frameset that is going to get a FG(4 speed dyno) hub, alloy 700c rims, fenders and inverted alloy north road bars, brooks saddle. I suspect the all up weight to be about 22-24#'s because of the frame size, 25.5"

Aaron:)

http://a455.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/57/l_d2b98da8a95db835c032602de5dce83e.jpg

i'm working on it!

this is the "before" picture, but i don't have a camera and it's not *quite* finished for the "after" shot.

it's a 1971 raleigh sport, made in england. my partner saw the add on craigslist, and it turned out to be someone we knew rfom BF, who also happened to live a block or so away. it was his mother's, but she was having trouble getting on the bike with the high bar.

$50, some new cables, better pedals, and many hours of (free :) ) labour later, it is my birthday-cruiser-ride. since the old low-end "brooks" was shot (read: felt like i was sitting on the seat post when riding :eek: ) i put an old saddle of mine on it until i can afford something better, and a rear mount for a rack bag we had kicking around. it really needs a kickstand; i tried a cheap one that didn't work, but haven't had luck in finding an original-style one. a few other touches may also be added in the future such as a proper front light, better/bigger grips, front basket, and water bottle cage.

as i've said in other threads, it takes some getting used to the looser handling, and the quirks of the SA hub/cottered cranks, but i'm still very proud of it.

I saw a old British bike catalog from about fifty years ago that showed a three speed hub on a race quality frame.

Yep. See:

http://groups.google.com/group/gentlemancyclist/browse_thread/thread/6d5210133a484969/fce9250925c8fda6#fce9250925c8fda6

Best,
TCS

Wimps like me who live in hilly places want a 7 or 8 speed. :o

Wimps?

I'd like to see these 3-speed retro-philiacs pedal out of my valley!

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the utilitarian simplicity of an English 3-speed -- on level ground.
But for practicality in all types of terrain, modern derailleur (or modern internal hubs) is the only way to go.

Wimps?

I'd like to see these 3-speed retro-philiacs pedal out of my valley!

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the utilitarian simplicity of an English 3-speed -- on level ground.
But for practicality in all types of terrain, modern derailleur (or modern internal hubs) is the only way to go.

They aren't meant to pedal out of the valley. Just down to the store and back.

Did they ever go away51555

They aren't meant to pedal out of the valley. Just down to the store and back.

And for that, they are superb (I've ridden them).
But let's get serious here, most folks can't afford a stable of cycles, and the English 3-speed is a poor choice for the one bike cyclist.

But let's get serious here, most folks can't afford a stable of cycles, and the English 3-speed is a poor choice for the one bike cyclist.

Depends on what you want to use it for. If you live a few miles from work and want to bike commute, it is perfect. If you do long group rides and live 10 miles from work it probably isn't for you.

Depends on what you want to use it for. If you live a few miles from work and want to bike commute, it is perfect. If you do long group rides and live 10 miles from work it probably isn't for you.


Well... I disagree.
If you live only a few miles from work (on level ground of course), and never plan to use your ONE bicycle for weekend/holiday adventurizing, then a light singlespeed is the way to go.

Whatever advantage you would gain from 2 more gears is lost by the heft of most E-3's.

Again, I want to repeat that if I had the $$$ I'd have an E-3 in my corral. I like them. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and promote them beyond their rank in regards to commuting.

http://en.flying-pigeon.cn/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProductInfoExhibit.html?ProductInfoExhibit_ProductID=c373e90856bd3d0d8ffbfc93a944cda5&ProductInfoExhibit_isRefreshParent=false

I believe Flying Pigeon makes custom bikes, too. Get that with aluminum rims, a Nexus 3, and caliper brakes, and you've got a cheap commuter - that thing with (I believe steel) rims, a single speed, and rod brakes is $30.

And for that, they are superb (I've ridden them).
But let's get serious here, most folks can't afford a stable of cycles, and the English 3-speed is a poor choice for the one bike cyclist.

I've gotten by just fine for the last year one just a three speed (74 Schwinn Speedster) in Baltimore, which is far from flat (not SF hilly, but it ain't flat) and have done decent (10-15 mile) pleasure rides on it in addition to almost daily commuting. Like any other bike, the more you ride it the more your body adapts to riding it. Even when I had a 21 speed MTB I only used 2-3 gears excluding when I would ride over the Oakland hills. The argument from the SS/fixie crowd that most people only use one gear is a little narrow, but for me three is almost perfect.

(Unfortunately the 33 year-old spokes don't like the 200 years-since-last-paving roads in B'more, so the three speed is currently down with a busted rear)

I beat my friends up the Rock Garden (in LA) with my Nexus 3 (42/16). I would agree it's not the most pleasant experience, but then again, you will *always* want just one more gear going up a steep hill. "Normal hills" (whatever that means) shouldn't be an issue with a 3 speed.

Like any other bike, the more you ride it the more your body adapts to riding it.

No argument there.
But don't tell me that if I could replicate the exact geometry of your current rig, and pare the weight to 18lbs your commute wouldn't use less calories.

We're arguing physics vs. aesthetics, and I can't disagree with either one.

And for that, they are superb (I've ridden them).
But let's get serious here, most folks can't afford a stable of cycles, and the English 3-speed is a poor choice for the one bike cyclist. Buddy, dude! most of the folks on this website have at least two bikes:D I myself just got that 1954 for $50.00;) I have to say that the majority of commuters here have less than a three mile ride. three speeds make up the large percentage of bikes worldwide. just sayin':D

Buddy, dude! most of the folks on this website have at least two bikes:D

Yes... and I'd be one of them.
One is a touring/commuter
And the second is a MTB/winter commuter

Add my burley nomad, and either can haul groceries.

What I'm saying is, as much as I appreciate the E3s, there is no way you can convince me that they are the best option for commuting/utility cycling.

I like retro, but I like pragmatism more.

In 76 I purchased a new Raliegh Roadster... 3 speed, 28 inch wheels, rod brakes etc.. It was and still is one of my favorite riding bikes... Still mostly original down to the air pump that came with it... I have however had to order a new shifting cable for it ... The old original one finaly gave up the task...
If I could buy an new one of these bikes today I would not hesitate.. IMHO those 28 inch wheels, the steel frame and the long wheel base make for a very comfortable ride...
I see Raliegh has some new bikes out for 08 that lean in this direction but don't quite make it... I am refering to the "Detour Delux" ... It has a smaller wheel base then the roadster and uses a derailer instead of an internal hub..

Dont forget RAINCITYBIKES! they have two locations in Vancouver and carry a ton of of Dutch city bikes, cargo bikes and commercial transport bikes :)

yeah, jorg&olif, napastyle, the importer dutchbikes us, clevercycles in portland, rain city, seattle dutch bikes, and you can check my sig below for a northeast outlet...

It's way too hilly around here to ride a 3 speed bike.

I'll stick with my trusty 18 & 20 speed road bikes.

how many usable gears on that 18&20 speed bike? how much overlap?
you might want to check out this handy gear chart and minor dissertation on how one rider chose his gears... (http://www.uscoles.com/threespeedgearing.pdf) it was made comparing 3spds to modern drivetrains.

i'm not saying 3spd is the answer - but for many folks, IMHO a 'modern' drivetrain is overkill, esp for commuting and errands - its not like one day some mountain will just show up between you and work... typically you know you're route, and you know where you need to go on a regular basis. you also tune the gearing to match your typical riding. SS, 3Spd, and 8spd seem to be real alternatives to derailed bikes.

YMM will most certainly V.

I will still contend that a English style 3 speed makes an excellent commuter/utility bike for a large segment of the population. I had one from 1982-1987 as my only bike, then rebuilt a basket case Motobecane for longer rides. After that I still commuted on the 3 speed for another 5 years. That 3 speed carried me day in and day out with minimal maintenance, it took me to the movies, the theatre, the library, the grocery store, friends houses, and to work. The area I lived in was by no means flat, but it wasn't the Swiss Alps either. The best part about that bike is that I only paid $25 for it and it was dead simple to keep maintained. Most expensive repair/replace items were the tires... wish I could say that for some of my dérailleur equipped bikes:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

I will still contend that a English style 3 speed makes an excellent commuter/utility bike for a large segment of the population.


+1

I love my 8sp Nexus hub here in Portland, but if I were riding where I grew up in SE Michigan, I'd be perfectly happy with a 3sp hub.

I would love if some company would make a modern frame with horizontal drop-outs, with welded or really sturdy fenders, and a rack integrated to the frame. Add to that disk and v-brake mounts in option and if would make hell of a bike! And that available either in 26 or 700 wheel sizes.

I'm pretty sure there is a market for it in North-America, and it's definitely growing. Heck, if there was such a frame available, I'd buy it right now!

Today I had a meeting with my family and they all wanted a bike like mine, with fenders, rack. They say back in the time they all had 3 speeds and that knowing they are now available in 8 speed and much lighter, they were very interested.

I would love if some company would make a modern frame with horizontal drop-outs, with welded or really sturdy fenders, and a rack integrated to the frame. Add to that disk and v-brake mounts in option and if would make hell of a bike! And that available either in 26 or 700 wheel sizes.

I'm pretty sure there is a market for it in North-America, and it's definitely growing. Heck, if there was such a frame available, I'd buy it right now!

Today I had a meeting with my family and they all wanted a bike like mine, with fenders, rack. They say back in the time they all had 3 speeds and that knowing they are now available in 8 speed and much lighter, they were very interested.

Kogswell?
http://kogswell.com/images/nateBARS.jpg


Dutch?
how about a secret service?
http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/ss_mens.jpg

or an oma or opa?
http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/bikeshow/2.jpg

http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/bikeshow/3.jpg

both in 3spd or 8spd

or, by modern do you mean something like this:
http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/bikeshow/15.jpg

And don't forget the Breezers (http://breezerbikes.com/index.cfm?CFID=31470404&CFTOKEN=78510842) Though I do have a Staiger Florida (http://www.staiger-fahrrad.de/index.php?option=deka&lupenbild=07_Florida_Da_2400.jpg&LID=7844063018363&modellID=7844279357074&Linienname=Trekking%20Line) (not internal gears, but you have to take what you can get around here) I think most people that get nostalgic still think they can get a Raleigh Sports for $79.95 but forget what that was worth in 1970's dollars:p ($425 today;)) I think we will be seeing an increase in the availability of utility bikes.

Aaron:)

or, by modern do you mean something like this:
http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/bikeshow/15.jpg

OH GAWD THATS UGLY! :eek: why why why do bike makers make bikes that look so ugly?

now that Kogswell is a thing of beauty, clean simple lines, no guady decals or colors, simple functional elegance - more bikes like this please:

http://kogswell.com/images/nateBARS.jpg

That Kogswell is a beauty!

By modern I meant not a rescued bike from the 70's. Always loved the Secret Service too but for some reasons it juts looks old. It's classy and everything, maybe it could use a fresher color.

Also all these are available in kit only, good and bad wether you already have all the pieces on another bike.

Plus I believe it should be made somewhere in North-America. I don't really like the idea of importing all these bikes. Would make new jobs here, lower carbon emissions and all that.

That Kogswell is a beauty!

By modern I meant not a rescued bike from the 70's. Always loved the Secret Service too but for some reasons it juts looks old. It's classy and everything, maybe it could use a fresher color.

Also all these are available in kit only, good and bad wether you already have all the pieces on another bike.

Plus I believe it should be made somewhere in North-America. I don't really like the idea of importing all these bikes. Would make new jobs here, lower carbon emissions and all that.

would be nice, i agree, but bringing over a container of bikes is pretty cheap on the carbon front.
someday... when folks in NA realize that we need to make stuff.

but... all that steel, aluminum, and other nat resources come from somewhere...


custom color is available on the dutch bikes... for a cost, of course. i think the classic black is well... classic.

or, by modern do you mean something like this:

OH GAWD THATS UGLY! :eek: why why why do bike makers make bikes that look so ugly?

yes it is.



now that Kogswell is a thing of beauty, clean simple lines, no guady decals or colors, simple functional elegance - more bikes like this please:


here's my ride... (not cheap...)
http://lh3.google.com/mike.beganyi/RkYW_VFvKRI/AAAAAAAACII/waQxnYnAc3Y/s800/IMG_3364.JPG

^beautiful!

does that rear satbag have a metal strut support underneath?

bmike: what are those lights you have on your fork?

^beautiful!

does that rear satbag have a metal strut support underneath?

Probably a Bagman (http://www.wallbike.com/racks/bagman.html) rack

Aaron:)

BTW: who's that playing the Ricky bass in your Avatar? I can't make it out.

I just noticed that after reading your post! I love Ricky basses and have owned MANY over the last few years....PM me and we can talk....:D

^beautiful!

does that rear satbag have a metal strut support underneath?

its a carradice SQR tour bag. has a metal rack that is above the bag, with a block on the seatpost for quick removal.

bmike: what are those lights you have on your fork?

dual E6 lights, powered by a schmidt hub.

http://lh3.google.com/mike.beganyi/Ra7I3shufyI/AAAAAAAABoM/rL6bwjnNn-8/s400/IMG_2895.JPG

http://lh3.google.com/mike.beganyi/RSLpoDw0ABI/AAAAAAAAABM/RnW_OwYNqe0/s400/IMG_1927.JPG

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e307/alldz/Nonnos_old_3_speed/?action=view&current=IMG_0308.jpg

This is my grandfather's bike. I'm turned 41 this year so I know it's at least THAT old since I remember him always having this thing! lol It has been stored in dust and out of service for at least the last 20 years. I just took it out last week after pumping up the tires. They've held air so far. I need to lube the rear hub next and clean the rest of it up.

Aldo

I just finished this buildup with a hub I got for $5 at the Refuse Transfer Station. It was on a '65 Raleigh Sport, which was pretty rusty, so I stuck it under the house for later.... The frame is a 7 speed roadie which was a good bike in its day - columbus steel and all. The rest either came with the roadie or was in my spares box, except for the Seatpost and Stem which are new, and the S-A shifter & cable/pulleys, which were NOS on ebay. Oh and of course the rims were built up at the LBS. A nice thing to do if you have an old frame thats just too good to throw out.

http://www.indietorrents.com/bitbucket/DSCF0779c.JPG

my favorite bike as a kid was my dad's old 3-speed raleigh. I don't ever remember wishing i had more than three gears. It had fenders, a dorky bell, chainguard. Worked great until i left it behind his car, and nmy dad ran it over backing out of the garage.

dual E6 lights, powered by a schmidt hub.

http://lh3.google.com/mike.beganyi/Ra7I3shufyI/AAAAAAAABoM/rL6bwjnNn-8/s400/IMG_2895.JPG

[/IMG]


Man, I LOVE those lights. Imagine using LED lights and having the hub power four or maybe SIX of those lights.

With today's low energy LED lights, you could turn your bicycle into a 1960's British Mods bike (as in Mods vs. Rockers).

Pictures of Lily...

Beginning during my time on the East Coast about 10 years ago, I've really enjoyed the British 3 speeds, and I think they are good cheap transportation for relatively flat towns and neighborhoods. I have two '65 Raleigh Sports models, one '71 Raleigh LTD-3, and a 1937 Phillips City Model recently brought back fromt he dead. That those old S/A hubs still work is a testament to their build quality (so is their weight!). The odd sizing causes some pain, but treat them well and they will always be there for errands and stylish slow riding. I use '65 Sports for riding with the kid. I've attached a photo of the bike with her Bobike seat in Tiburon.

I think the singlespeed - either built up or bought new - is the new utility bike. I ride my Raleigh One-Way everywhere without a second thought. It just goes. You can always build one with townie bars and a springy seat and even fenders as an homage to british and Dutch bikes. Now that Brooks saddles are widely available, you can really use the 3speeds as an inspiration for single speed or internal hub simplicity.

If one has more money, the Kogswell P/R is ready to build to your liking. I'm getting a low trail fork for my Kogswell P58 to add another set-up for functionality.

Is that your bobike in the picture? How do you like it?

I've been wanting to pickup one for my daughter who is approaching riding age. The problem is, I don't have a bike with a threaded stem. I've been casually watching ebay for something appropriate to appear.

http://en.flying-pigeon.cn/newEbiz1/EbizPortalFG/portal/html/ProductInfoExhibit.html?ProductInfoExhibit_ProductID=c373e90856bd3d0d8ffbfc93a944cda5&ProductInfoExhibit_isRefreshParent=false

I believe Flying Pigeon makes custom bikes, too. Get that with aluminum rims, a Nexus 3, and caliper brakes, and you've got a cheap commuter - that thing with (I believe steel) rims, a single speed, and rod brakes is $30.

It's only $30 over there. Over here, it's no longer a "bike of the people," but gets turned into some kind of unique lifestyle bicycle, and costs over $500. Of course, the dealer probably has to buy them in bulk from the factory and then they have to be shipped over the water. The dealer should be able to profit from this. But even with all that, the high price seems hard to justify. I'd love to have an old-school Flying Pigeon if only cause they're a little different, but not if they cost so much.

That Kogswell is a beauty!

By modern I meant not a rescued bike from the 70's. Always loved the Secret Service too but for some reasons it juts looks old. It's classy and everything, maybe it could use a fresher color.

Also all these are available in kit only, good and bad wether you already have all the pieces on another bike.

Plus I believe it should be made somewhere in North-America. I don't really like the idea of importing all these bikes. Would make new jobs here, lower carbon emissions and all that.

I tried to find Secret Service on the web, but came up empty. Any ideas?
Any of those Dutch bikes have a neat look to them and probably are plenty useful, but it seems that bringing a bike over here from Europe automatically doubles its price. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a knock-down bike kit from India that had the utility bike form and function, but seemed a bit pricey for a bike that needed its wheels to be laced, and that was made in such conditions that allowed it to be rusty from the start.

If you really want any kind of bike made in North America, you could go to Cannondale, but those start around $1000 unless I overlooked something at the LBS the other day. It seems we've priced our labor quite high in this country. Does Raleigh Canada still make bikes in their Canadian factory?

A time is going to come that we're going to wish that will still actually manufactured things of value in this country. A little OT, but we're also going to regret suburbanizing all our farmland.

I tried to find Secret Service on the web, but came up empty. Any ideas?
Any of those Dutch bikes have a neat look to them and probably are plenty useful, but it seems that bringing a bike over here from Europe automatically doubles its price. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned a knock-down bike kit from India that had the utility bike form and function, but seemed a bit pricey for a bike that needed its wheels to be laced, and that was made in such conditions that allowed it to be rusty from the start.

If you really want any kind of bike made in North America, you could go to Cannondale, but those start around $1000 unless I overlooked something at the LBS the other day. It seems we've priced our labor quite high in this country. Does Raleigh Canada still make bikes in their Canadian factory?

A time is going to come that we're going to wish that will still actually manufactured things of value in this country. A little OT, but we're also going to regret suburbanizing all our farmland.

http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/images/2007/08/13/ss_mens.jpg

secret service... here (http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/secret-service.html).
check my sig.

pricing... i wouldn't say it doubles the cost. it adds to it, but not doubles it. the bikes typically come over by the container load - so the cost per bike is minimal.

love the bobike. Gets more comments than my bike itself (I stopped getting comments long, *long* ago). Nice way to make a utility bike more utility-ful.

or, by modern do you mean something like this:
http://www.dutchbikes.us/images/bikeshow/15.jpg

Mmmm. Fully enclosed chain case.

It seems like the chain case on this bike, the Gazelles, my Trek L200 and the Miyata LiteAce are all about the same. Is there a common manufacturer of these? I wonder if they're a bike specific item or if they can be retrofitted onto other internal hub/single speed bikes.