Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

Raleigh Sports are nice bikes - I love my 1947 ladies model and would never part with it. :)

I'm leaning heavily toward getting the bike. My only concern is that I'd like to be able to determine if the three speed hub is in decent shape. I have several rebuilding projects going on, and if the problem with the hub is beyond just replacing the connector I'm reluctant to put another bike on the queue.

If it's only the hub that's a problem it's still worth buying such an original bike that's in nice condition. That's my two pennyworth, but I guess it depends how much storage space you have.

My Raleigh Sports :)
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3885/anniessportshx6.jpg

If it's only the hub that's a problem it's still worth buying such an original bike that's in nice condition. That's my two pennyworth, but I guess it depends how much storage space you have.

My Raleigh Sports :)
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3885/anniessportshx6.jpg

That's a gorgeous bike. I can't tell from the photo how the shifter works, though. Is it a little toggle-like mechanism on the bars, like the later Raleigh three speeds?

Larry, don't dither - get it! You could always sell it later, but you'll regret it if you don't buy it.

Larry, don't dither - get it! You could always sell it later, but you'll regret it if you don't buy it.

It's about 95% certain that I'm going to get the bike.

That's a gorgeous bike. I can't tell from the photo how the shifter works, though. Is it a little toggle-like mechanism on the bars, like the later Raleigh three speeds?

It almost looks like a single speed coaster brake is on that bike (looks like a brake arm perhaps in the photo)? You'd probably need it to help the front rod brakes out anyway.

Sorry, forgot to point out that my bike is a single speed coaster model. Nuffing wrong with rod brakes by the way, it's all how you set them up and most folk don't keep them in proper adjustment and alignment. Quite a few of my bikes have rod brakes and I much prefer them to all those messy cables and finger pinchy bits on modern bikes.
I much prefer to ride something old and trustworthy with no silly dangly bits......

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1431/ladyscorcherkf1.jpg

The rod brakes I have on my DL1 aren't bad. I treat them like old non-power drum brakes on vintage cars- you need to be thinking well ahead of time to use them at all times.

Sorry, forgot to point out that my bike is a single speed coaster model. Nuffing wrong with rod brakes by the way, it's all how you set them up and most folk don't keep them in proper adjustment and alignment. Quite a few of my bikes have rod brakes and I much prefer them to all those messy cables and finger pinchy bits on modern bikes.
I much prefer to ride something old and trustworthy with no silly dangly bits......

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/1431/ladyscorcherkf1.jpg

That clears up my confusion about the layout. In general I agree with you that there are certain big advantages to bikes with fewer cables and external moving parts. Atlanta is very hilly though, so even the standard SA 3-speed is a bit of a workout. People do ride single speed bikes here (fixed gear bikes are a common sight, and old cruisers have a niche following).

If it's only the hub that's a problem it's still worth buying such an original bike that's in nice condition. That's my two pennyworth, but I guess it depends how much storage space you have.

My Raleigh Sports :)
http://img95.imageshack.us/img95/3885/anniessportshx6.jpg

One mystery may have been cleared up from your photo. My Raleigh Twenty folder has a bell aside the left grip, and I've wondered if it was part of the original equipment. Your bell seems identical to mine, so I'm leaning toward assuming it was a feature on Raleigh utility bikes. Am I correct?

Certainly here in New Zealand a bell was always part of the equipment on any Raleigh, Phillips, etc etc that was sold new. One or two of my older 1950s bikes still have their 'Lucas King of the Road' bells that would've been a part of their original equipment. Later on a variety of bells by other makers were fitted here; - most of the non-British ones I've seen are by German makers. Of course by the time the traditional bicycle industry in Britian was going to the dogs Hong Kong and Japanese bells were being sold by the bike shops and most of those were little more than junk.

A Lucas bell.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7544/lucasbellzr0.jpg

A Miller Bell (Ignore the box, the bell has Miller's distinctive lighthouse logo).
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8521/millerbellzz7.jpg

Certainly here in New Zealand a bell was always part of the equipment on any Raleigh, Phillips, etc etc that was sold new. One or two of my older 1950s bikes still have their 'Lucas King of the Road' bells that would've been a part of their original equipment. Later on a variety of bells by other makers were fitted here; - most of the non-British ones I've seen are by German makers. Of course by the time the traditional bicycle industry in Britian was going to the dogs Hong Kong and Japanese bells were being sold by the bike shops and most of those were little more than junk.

A Lucas bell.
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/7544/lucasbellzr0.jpg

A Miller Bell (Ignore the box, the bell has Miller's distinctive lighthouse logo).
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/8521/millerbellzz7.jpg

I hadn't inspected the bell carefully before this exchange, but I just put the flashlight to it, and the inscription (reading from left to right) says "British Miller Made". I'm assuming the "British Made" is intended to be read separately from the "Miller". And it does have a little lighthouse logo.

I hadn't inspected the bell carefully before this exchange, but I just put the flashlight to it, and the inscription (reading from left to right) says "British Miller Made". I'm assuming the "British Made" is intended to be read separately from the "Miller". And it does have a little lighthouse logo.

Miller made good quality bicycle accessories and I always look out for their lighting sets as I prefer them to the Lucas equivalent. Yes the logo is supposed to be read as, 'Miller British Made' even though it doesn't look like it. I've got a Miller lighting set from the late 1950s that's marked 'Empire Made' which is an interesting variation :)

Miller made good quality bicycle accessories and I always look out for their lighting sets as I prefer them to the Lucas equivalent. Yes the logo is supposed to be read as, 'Miller British Made' even though it doesn't look like it. I've got a Miller lighting set from the late 1950s that's marked 'Empire Made' which is an interesting variation :)

:roflmao: Lucas...the Lord of Darkness:D Supposedly the reason the British drink warm beer...they have Lucas refridgerators:p For those of you who don't know Lucas Electrics, especially the 12 volt automotive systems were notorious for leaving you in the dark, sitting on the side of the road due to component failure. Quite often they would be DOA out of the box brand new.

Sianlle I suspect the Empire Made may have been done to include stuff made in India?

Aaron:)

This is incredible. I browsed this thread when the Utility Cycling forum was created a couple of weeks ago, looked at the Raleigh Sport you posted and made a mental note to check into them on the used market. I then made a trip to Albany NY to help my fiance sort through her mother's belongings (her mother has developed Alzheimer's and the house will be sold).

In the garage was a 1968 (judging by the stamp on the hub) Raleigh Sport. It appears to be in good shape (no significant rust). The little connector between the cable and the chain coming out of the cylinder attached to the hub is missing. And of course the tires are dry rotted. I already have a couple of Raleigh utility bikes (a Twenty folder and a Shopper) but I'm considering buying it from the estate.

I'm becoming an accidental Raleigh collector. My primary road bike is a recent Raleigh supercourse, all three of my utility bikes are Raleighs (the Twenty, the Shopper, and a monstrously heavy 1970s Raleigh road bike which seems to have the knack for staying in adjustment no matter how badly I abuse it).

well now your fiance can have one to match! may you two ride off into the sunset together and live happily ever after :)

It's my first visit to the form (as a member) and I find a monster thread on english 3 speeds... it must be fate.

I volunteer at a community shop where we are well known for being some of the only folks who know anything about English three speeds since there's this old guy there (me) who just loves them.

They are more comfortable and less fussy than most bikes and the my "new" Twenty is in the process of being upgraded with modern wheels and cranks.

Here are my girls...

http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/biking/Superbedone.JPG
1978 Raleigh Superbe

http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/biking/yardsale/phillipstwentya.jpg
1971 Phillip's Twenty folding bicycle (made by Raleigh).

Sixty Fiver...welcome to the fold so to speak:D That Phillips Twenty is interesting. I have never seen nor heard of one before. My British bike collection is growing...again. Current stable numbers around 6 with a couple more possibly on the way:p They are some of the best bikes ever built and will be around long after I am done riding them.

Aaron:)

wahoon...

"My British bike collection is growing...again. "

Phillip's was another one of Raleigh's captive brands and like Rudge and Humber were of equal quality to their Raleigh counterparts. My holy grail of bikes is my 1955 Raleigh Lenton Sports (model 28), Reg Harris road model with all it's original bits and the factory equipped fixed gear hub.

There are equivalent Rudge and Humber variants to this model too.

A fun post to read but haven't read all of it just yet. I own three vintage Raleigh 3-speed hub geared (Sturmey-Archer AW-3) bikes and love them all. Also have a 1982 Univega Super Strada that I ride on those days when I feel like playing "Lance". My wife thinks I'm nuts for haveing so many and not riding them all the time. Depends on the mood I'm in. Hopefully the attachment works. PG.

Polish guy... that's a nice looking collection of Brits you have there.

updated pictures:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/raleigh.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/raleighsport.jpg

Look under the heading, " PRODUCTS", select bicycles, & open up some of their links. Cool bikes, but most dealers will only sell 3 or more , shipped to your door.
http://www.herogroup.com/bicycle_roadster.htm

How do people in hilly, not to say mountainous, areas manage with three speeds? There are many streets in my town that cars struggle up, and are difficult for 21- or 24-speeds. How do three-speeds or even singlespeeds manage?

How do people in hilly, not to say mountainous, areas manage with three speeds? There are many streets in my town that cars struggle up, and are difficult for 21- or 24-speeds. How do three-speeds or even singlespeeds manage?

Most towns (not Charleston, though) are flat. 3-speeds are perfect for that, since they are geared appropriately to start from a stop on flat land, and to put on some speed on the flats in gear 3.

Also, you can climb moderate hills with a 3-speed.

The vast majority of bike riders don't have daily hills to climb, so keep that in mind. In a city like Charleston, you are better off with a derailer bike with 24+ speeds.

Most towns (not Charleston, though) are flat. 3-speeds are perfect for that, since they are geared appropriately to start from a stop on flat land, and to put on some speed on the flats in gear 3.

Also, you can climb moderate hills with a 3-speed.

The vast majority of bike riders don't have daily hills to climb, so keep that in mind. In a city like Charleston, you are better off with a derailer bike with 24+ speeds.

Remember when it comes to steep hills you can always get off and walk. The classic 3 speed and single speed bikes were always refered to as 'pushbikes' in Britian and her former colonies and this gives the clue to their use. It's a great way to get around and ever since I was a youngster I've used these sort of bikes to explore the countryside. Getting off and walking gives one a chance to use different muscle groups and to catch one's breath. Sawing away at the lowest gear on a 21 speed while barely maintaining forward motion is not my idea of cycling.

Most towns (not Charleston, though) are flat. 3-speeds are perfect for that, since they are geared appropriately to start from a stop on flat land, and to put on some speed on the flats in gear 3.

Also, you can climb moderate hills with a 3-speed.

The vast majority of bike riders don't have daily hills to climb, so keep that in mind. In a city like Charleston, you are better off with a derailer bike with 24+ speeds.

Remember when it comes to steep hills you can always get off and walk. The classic 3 speed and single speed bikes were always refered to as 'pushbikes' in Britian and her former colonies and this gives the clue to their use. It's a great way to get around and ever since I was a youngster I've used these sort of bikes to explore the countryside. Getting off and walking gives one a chance to use different muscle groups and to catch one's breath. Sawing away at the lowest gear on a 21 speed while barely maintaining forward motion is not my idea of cycling.

How do people in hilly, not to say mountainous, areas manage with three speeds? There are many streets in my town that cars struggle up, and are difficult for 21- or 24-speeds. How do three-speeds or even singlespeeds manage?

the more you ride, the more you can ride.
a 3 speed can be geared lower - but the relationship from low to high is fixed.
theres also no harm in walking.

check out this chart (http://www.uscoles.com/threespeedgearing.pdf) on gearing


an 8 spd internal hub is quite useful in hilly terrain - the nexus has a 305% range from low to high.
the advantage of a '24' speed drivetrain is typically relatively closely spaced gears for lots of options for spinning in many situations.

Remember when it comes to steep hills you can always get off and walk.

If I wanted to hike, I would hike.

How do people in hilly, not to say mountainous, areas manage with three speeds? There are many streets in my town that cars struggle up, and are difficult for 21- or 24-speeds. How do three-speeds or even singlespeeds manage?


For the most part, they manage same way those who ride 21- or 24-speeds: They don't commute or regularly ride on such streets, period.


The vast majority of bike riders don't have daily hills to climb, so keep that in mind.

And if most people had difficult hills to climb daily, they wouldn't be cycling daily at all on such routes, no matter which bicycle equipment was available.

3 speeds can work just fine over the type of terrain/distance that most people (especially non cycling enthusiast) would ever consider bicycle commuting or utility cycling as a viable option.

"Bring back the English 3-speed"?

Schwinn did:

http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/r_23.53.S8COF3.jpg

MSRP $370.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=1027

For the most part, they manage same way those who ride 21- or 24-speeds: They don't commute or regularly ride on such streets, period.


And if most people had difficult hills to climb daily, they wouldn't be cycling daily at all on such routes, no matter which bicycle equipment was available.

3 speeds can work just fine over the type of terrain/distance that most people (especially non cycling enthusiast) would ever consider bicycle commuting or utility cycling as a viable option.

But what if one is committed to a car-free or at least car-lite lifestyle? (Which might be forced on us sooner than we think if some of the Peak Oil people's scenarios come to pass.) Is the only answer, if one lives in a hilly town, like Charleston (WV, not SC) or San Francisco, to move? (I've never been there, but I'm told that Portland, OR is a very hilly town, yet it also has a reputation as being very much a town where a car-free or car-lite lifestyle is very viable.)

But what if one is committed to a car-free or at least car-lite lifestyle? (Which might be forced on us sooner than we think if some of the Peak Oil people's scenarios come to pass.) Is the only answer, if one lives in a hilly town, like Charleston (WV, not SC) or San Francisco, to move? (I've never been there, but I'm told that Portland, OR is a very hilly town, yet it also has a reputation as being very much a town where a car-free or car-lite lifestyle is very viable.)

Car free purists can do like the vast majority of other car free folk do; use public transportation.

It is the availability of access to good public transportion (at least as a backup) that makes a voluntary car-free lifestyle viable for most people. The availabilty of public transport as a backup also significantly improves the viability of the bicycle as a practical vehicle for most year round transportation for those "committed to a car-free lifestyle."

Car free purists can do like the vast majority of other car free folk do; use public transportation.

What public transportation? Unless you live in NY or Chicago or a few other major cities, we don't have public transportation in the US.

"Bring back the English 3-speed"?

Schwinn did:

http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/r_23.53.S8COF3.jpg

MSRP $370.

http://www.schwinnbike.com/products/bikes_detail.php?id=1027

Ooooooo that's nice :D I want one!


And if most people had difficult hills to climb daily, they wouldn't be cycling daily at all on such routes, no matter which bicycle equipment was available.

Yeah maybe, but that's just because most car inhabiting folk are too lazy to get out of their own way. I live in a country district and I regularly chat with the older folk around town who are keen to tell me their cycling stories. A very common theme is how they would cycle 30 miles or so to visit their intended when they were courting when they were younger. I also have had quite a few elderly ladies tell me that they were cycling for regular transport until recently, but only gave up due to the increase in numbers of large truck and trailer units on the road. Anyway it's only going to be a matter of time before the car inhabiting folk are going to have to give up their tin boxes and re-learn how to walk. One of the main routes in the district (through a stunningly beautiful gorge) was closed off last night due to bad weather and it was soooooooo nice to hear the rain falling without the sound of trucks rumbling by to ruin it.


If I wanted to hike, I would hike.

Lighten up Elkhound http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/6124/slapfacemi1.gif bicycling is supposed to be fun. Part of my joy in riding a bike is being able to pause on a hill to admire the view. Otherwise you might as well stop at home with a wind trainer and a widescreen telly playing DVDs of great highways of the world.;)

I think we are going to be seeing more and more of these

KHS (http://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_07.htm) has one but no pricing....yet.

Aaron:)

http://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/Bike_Images/Full08/08-urban-green.jpg

I'm so happy that they started making real bikes again. Now, if they would only bring back British sports cars as well.

Paul

KHS doesn't make an expensive bike. I'm thinking this one will be affordable.

KHS doesn't make an expensive bike. I'm thinking this one will be affordable.

I got RevChuck checking on it for me....it was listed as a 2007 model on the website but no MSRP:( and he doesn't have anything on them either. I actually prefer the aesthetics of the Schwinn (except the color) but they haven't listed any frame sizes. If it came in basic black or red or? The current color scheme looks like an old department store Huffy.

Aaron:)

I'm so happy that they started making real bikes again. Now, if they would only bring back British sports cars as well.

They have; but now they are made in Japan and are reliable, i.e the original Miyata and a host of other fine cars from Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, etc.

Yeah maybe, but that's just because most car inhabiting folk are too lazy to get out of their own way. I live in a country district and I regularly chat with the older folk around town who are keen to tell me their cycling stories. A very common theme is how they would cycle 30 miles or so to visit their intended when they were courting when they were younger. I also have had quite a few elderly ladies tell me that they were cycling for regular transport until recently, but only gave up due to the increase in numbers of large truck and trailer units on the road.
Did they also tell you how they walked uphill to and from school in the snow year round too?

This is the utility cycling forum and car free "credentials" are not required for membership.
I suggest you and other posters of rants, generalizations, and stereotypes about lazy people/most car inhabiting folk take 'em to the car free list.

Did they also tell you how they walked uphill to and from school in the snow year round too?



Yep, - and they used to crawl all the way on broken glass too and had to live in a cardboard box ;)


This is the utility cycling forum and car free "credentials" are not required for membership.
I suggest you and other posters of rants, generalizations, and stereotypes about lazy people/most car inhabiting folk take 'em to the car free list.

Sit on a nettle did ya Mister? :p;)

They have; but now they are made in Japan and are reliable, i.e the original Miyata and a host of other fine cars from Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, etc.

Minor nitpick: It's spelled Miata... and if Wikipedia is to be believed (:lol:), the word is actually GERMAN in origin, not Japanese. ;) (I suspected you thought the word was Japanese, due to your spelling it "Miyata.")

But, yes, the two main examples of the modern British sports car are the Mazda MX-5 (since model year 1990) and the Honda S2000 (since model year 2000). Both made by the Japanese, both reliable. :D

Yep, - and they used to crawl all the way on broken glass too and had to live in a cardboard box ;)



Sit on a nettle did ya Mister? :p;)

Nope just doing my part to steering you where your assumptions about cyclists' lifestyles/self righteousness might be shared.

I haven't read all 12 pages - I've scanned about half of them. My question is does anyone have one of the Eastman of India Raleigh DL-1 copies as upgraded and available here (http://www.yellowjersey.org/east03.html)?


Of course this is the classic pushbike - with the traditional pushbike handlebar and rod brakes - the modern versions by Schwinn and Pacebike are probably nicer rides.

I actually prefer the aesthetics of the Schwinn (except the color) but they haven't listed any frame sizes. If it came in basic black or red or? The current color scheme looks like an old department store Huffy.
Aaron, is the Schwinn a single speed? I'm not seeing a gear shifter or a 3rd cable.

Aaron, is the Schwinn a single speed? I'm not seeing a gear shifter or a 3rd cable.

Donna,
I wondered about that too, but the written spec calls out a SRAM I-motion 3-speed Coaster Brake...I like the fact it has 700c wheels and a straight top bar.
Edit:it does show on the ladies frame. I think those are artists renditions rather than actual photos, now why a coaster brake when it has front and rear calipers???

Aaron:)

I actually like the paint job of the girly version better. And look - shifter cables!

http://www.schwinnbike.com/images/catalog/24.9.S8CRE3.jpg

I haven't read all 12 pages - I've scanned about half of them. My question is does anyone have one of the Eastman of India Raleigh DL-1 copies as upgraded and available here (http://www.yellowjersey.org/east03.html)?


Of course this is the classic pushbike - with the traditional pushbike handlebar and rod brakes - the modern versions by Schwinn and Pacebike are probably nicer rides.

I own a "Wu Yang' Chinese copy of the Raleigh DL-1 in totally un-upgraded form and it's a teeeerrific bike to own and ride. These bikes are extremely reliable, but the note on Yellow Jersey's website about the quality of the paint and plating needs to be bourne in mind. I've owned my bike for over 10 years now from new and a good and regular wipe down with an oily rag helps to keep things nice.
I love rod brakes and if they are setup properly are completely reliable.

Sawing away at the lowest gear on a 21 speed while barely maintaining forward motion is not my idea of cycling.

Exactly! That is something that I have never understood. Why sit there churning away when one can walk faster and with less effort. It is as if there is some physical law that says you can't get off the bike and push. Thus, we have added needless chainrings, triple derailleurs, etc.

Exactly! That is something that I have never understood. Why sit there churning away when one can walk faster and with less effort. It is as if there is some physical law that says you can't get off the bike and push. Thus, we have added needless chainrings, triple derailleurs, etc.

Because pushing the bike by hand is harder on the back. Also, shoes that are good for cycling tend to be terrible for walking, and vice versa.