Utility Cycling - Bring back the English 3-speed

There's a store in Ottawa, Canada, that makes their own version of the European city-bike. The Cyclery has been building "Krikes" since 2002 and I bought one in the first year of production (I think about 15 - 20 per year). They equip it with a Nexus 7 spd hub and a Nexus front hub/generator. As well, it came with a chain guard, front and rear fenders, and a rear rack.

If I'm doing basic commuting, running errands, or meeting someone socially, my Krike is the perfect bike. To be able to just climb onboard in normal street clothes and go is great and the ride is really enjoyable.

I agree with the basic thrust of thread, however, and in North America most people, in my opinion, are probably riding the wrong bike. There are a lot of cyclists in Ottawa and the classic city bike isn't uncommon but you see so many people riding either very fat-tired mountain bikes, with no fenders or racks; or high end racing bikes as commuting bikes.

I just returned from a vacation in Paris and the utility cycling there is absolutely amazing.

I have always enjoyed the SturmeyArcher equipped bikes.I presently have 45 of them.......

:eek:

Suddenly I feel very underprivileged :p;)

Yeah right on and good point! Literally millions of the old school 3 speeds were made, they are completely undervalued. There is no reason why i dedicated person (in almost any locality on a mainland) can't score a nice one for cheap. Even if you add some great new component's to improve things a bit you'd still up spending about a third (at most) of what a new Azor would cost.

Yeah, some people are Insane! considering what they throw out. As for 10 times the Azor, hang on a second ha ha! Even if you put in stainless steel spokes and rims, a 7 speed Nexus (that is what we sell the most and people seem to digg), Rollerbrake hubs, and pretty much replace everything else with Stainless steel variants as well as change the Bottom Bracket to cotter less and completely renew the drive train, add a bombproof rack etc etc, you would end up with a bike that is getting somewhat close to being as good a bike as an Azor Heavy Duty.

But i wouldn't actually do this myself. I'd just get a decent second hand 3 Speed with a !SA AW! and then replace only those parts as they wore out or as i found them cheap or free. So maybe start with replacing all spokes and a new rim if a couple spokes end up breaking in a row. Then perhaps a year later the BB and cranks if the BB developed slop and play that could not longer be taken out. And so on.

In most urban localities is is rather silly to own a daily bike that is as unusual and attractive and new looking as an Azor. What is the point of having a Utility! bike that one is scared to leave in town even with a beefy lock? I want to ride and use my utility bike lots, not worry about theft or sobbing uncontrollably over it when it gets lifted.

Also i think it only fair to point out that Azor's are very affordable here in their Native Country. Start at 359 and about 700 to 950 euros will get you a top of the line Custom! bike = 7 speeds, rollerbrakes, Hub dynamo, everything as bomb proof as possible, stainless all over. It is only when you add transport, mark ups along the way, some rotten exchange rate and so forth that they end up being very expensive in say the US and Canada.

Although bike theft is prevalent in the Netherlands luckily Azor's don't stand out at all here and are not major targets for thieves.

I cannot believe that someone was so dull a personality as to throw out that 1955 Sunshine. Great find, and it's nice that it's found a good home where it will be appreciated.

What v1nce said...

Only problem is with my beater Raleigh is I can't find 26x1-3/8" rims in alloy anymore:( I continue to ride the old beat up peeling chrome ones (really makes the bike look derelict :p) I have a 197? Raleigh Sports Standard that is plug ugly. I bought the bike for $25 in 1982 and it required only minmal maintenance for the 15 years it was used as a commuter. Now it has been cleaned up a bit and returned to use as a "dinghy/lifeboat" in my large work truck. I drive into a town somewhere, park the truck, haul out the bike and go riding around town to see the sights. I also use it in the evenings after work to ride from my motel to restaurants or nearby stores.

Aaron:)

The fact that so many of these bikes have survived into the present day is a testament to how well built they were...

I volunteer at our community bike shop and see more of these kinds of bikes than most and the demand for them is quite high... we're also one of the only shops that actually has the capacity to service them as none of the local shops even stocks parts anymore.

bikeguy - That Sunshine is sweet.

Here's what it would cost for the various Azor models here in Canada(might be comparable in the US).Nothing terribly affordable there if you ask me.You can get alot of bike(s) for that kind of coin.


AZOR BICYCLES

Standard bicycles come with:
3 speeds; front drum brake;
rear coaster brake; side-mount
kickstand. Starting at $999.00:eek:
Deluxe bicycles come with:
8 speeds; headlamp runs via silent,
front hub-mounted dynamo; front
and rear roller brakes.
Starting at $1472.00:eek: :eek:
Bakfiets bicycles bring about:
Smiling faces and happy children!
Starting at $2699.00:eek: :eek: :eek:

...and these are starting prices!

Considering how weak the dollar has become against most major world currencies, including the loonie I suspect it is worse than that. Very seldom do I purchase a brand new bike, I typically look at my LBS used rack, yard sales, thrift shops and flea markets. On my desires for the vintage stuff the best choices have come from fellow BF'ers.

Aaron:)

In the past several months I have came across 3 3speed an old roadmaster(AMF), free spirit and an executive(made in W. Germany).The free spirit cost $5 the others $10 each.I think they are cool because nobody wants them so they are safe to lite lock.

not only did i survive my 4-day tour, i decided to go for my longest-distance ride yesterday to the cheltenham badlands here in ontario:

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/20-10-07_1201.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/20-10-07_1431.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/badlands.jpg

http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h274/i_lix/20-10-07_1535.jpg

127 kms in just over 7 hrs ride time with 50 km/h (mostly cross and head)winds to an elevation of 429 meters!

having a good saddle, clipless pedals, and new grips helps a lot.

Glad people are getting in to these old beasts (again).

About Azor, once again, the prices overseas are steep but that can not be blamed on Azor. I have been to their factory, it is tiny! They employ lots of people with disabilities (i saw a completely blind guy laying tires on rims faster than i ever could!). They are a cool company with heart for bikes, they are not trying to make a killing on any bike, including exports. It is the people and companies that stand between Azor and the customer overseas that are responsible for the prices.

As for the three speeds, if i were to get one as a present for someone getting back into cycling i'd definitely add some great new bits to it to spice it up, Stainless steel handlebars, nicer rims is they could be found, really nice and cushy tires, a New Brooks, touch up the paint some and clean the bike all over, new brake cables (inner and outer) and so forth. Relatively affordable expenditures, massive difference in appeal.

PS.
Bmike, it might not bee that old, judging by the headset, but that is quite possibly the most beautiful ride I've ever seen in my life. What IS it?

which one?

This one.
I swear I think I'm in love here.

gotcha. not english and not a 3spd!

my if club racer. read about it here. (http://littlecircles.blogspot.com/2006/11/bike-part-1.html)

Glad people are getting in to these old beasts (again).

About Azor, once again, the prices overseas are steep but that can not be blamed on Azor. I have been to their factory, it is tiny! They employ lots of people with disabilities (i saw a completely blind guy laying tires on rims faster than i ever could!). They are a cool company with heart for bikes, they are not trying to make a killing on any bike, including exports. It is the people and companies that stand between Azor and the customer overseas that are responsible for the prices.

As for the three speeds, if i were to get one as a present for someone getting back into cycling i'd definitely add some great new bits to it to spice it up, Stainless steel handlebars, nicer rims is they could be found, really nice and cushy tires, a New Brooks, touch up the paint some and clean the bike all over, new brake cables (inner and outer) and so forth. Relatively affordable expenditures, massive difference in appeal.

Hah! We "won" a 1971 Raleigh Colt at the ABCE event (http://www.abcetour.com/) in MSP. It is a tweens bike and just my wife's size (17" frame) So far the only upgrade has been a Ladies Brooks B-18 (http://www.wallbike.com/b18.html) It by far my wife's favorite bike. She has 3 others that fit pretty well, but she always asks for the Raleigh when we go for a ride.

Aaron:)

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/26271/2439946180066886751S425x425Q85.jpg

Sweet! I just scored a Ross Europa-3 from a guy down the street for $10 a few days ago. I'd been seeing it in his garage when I drove by, then the other day he had it out in the driveway with a sign on it. Everything works and it's super clean. The shifter cable just needs to be adjusted slightly.
How would I find out when it was made? So far I haven't located any numbers on it.

Sweet! I just scored a Ross Europa-3 from a guy down the street for $10 a few days ago. I'd been seeing it in his garage when I drove by, then the other day he had it out in the driveway with a sign on it. Everything works and it's super clean. The shifter cable just needs to be adjusted slightly.
How would I find out when it was made? So far I haven't located any numbers on it.
What brand is the rear hub? If it is a Sturmey Archer it most likely will have a date code on it. If it has the Shimano there maybe a date code on the inside of the rims. Other than that post a picture and hopefully someone will be able to help date it by the decals.

Aaron:)

I upgraded one of my three speeds tonight... she should be able to handle the MUTs as well as the road and now I have to worry about punks jacking my new BMX wheels and tires.

:D

http://members.shaw.ca/feynn/biking/phillips20c.jpg

Okay, after two years of modifications (http://www.flickr.com/photos/doggo/sets/72057594120231611/), and hundreds of dollars spent, I finally realized what I was looking for all along. The key was reading this article (http://clevercycles.com/?p=193).

So now I know that I'm looking for a frame with slack geometry (and internally geared hubs, etc.), and I have settled on two choices that I can reasonably buy. Not the price, obviously, but shipping and availability, beyond bidding against bicycle collectors on Ebay (Hope ya enjoy that Royal Scot for nearly $300!).

So what I'm looking at is a Pashley Roadster Sovereign (http://www.pashley.co.uk/products/roadster-sovereign.html) from North Road Bicycle Company (http://www.northroadbicycle.com/), or an Opa as configured and sold by Clever Cycles (http://clevercycles.com/store/?c=web2.67).

Both are beautiful bikes. Has anyone here rode either one, or both, or actually seen one or the other in person? And can you give your impression?

I'm leaning toward the Pashley for the British cachet, thumb shifter and S/A 5-speed. But the Opa is great too, with dynamo front hub, etc. It's a tough call, it's also a lot of money, and I kinda want to avoid buyer's remorse, ya know?

The only thing that concerns me is the reach on the Pashley. The Azor's stem has barely any reach, so the grips are right up close where I want them, so I can sit up straight. Easy enough to switch out the stem on the Pashley... if you can find a stem with little or no reach that fits. For some reason, nearly all stems these days have oodles of reach. Even if you don't want it. I don't care about wind resistance, I'm not racing, and I need to sit upright.

Okay, after two years of modifications (http://www.flickr.com/photos/doggo/sets/72057594120231611/), and hundreds of dollars spent, I finally realized what I was looking for all along. The key was reading this article (http://clevercycles.com/?p=193).

So now I know that I'm looking for a frame with slack geometry (and internally geared hubs, etc.), and I have settled on two choices that I can reasonably buy.


I came to the same conclusion and bought an Electra Townie ( "http://www.electrabike.com/04/bikes/townie/townie_home.html"). Way less expensive, and I'm pretty happy. Of course, I only ride 10-15 miles at a stretch, so YMMV.

Wow. For the price of an Azor, you can get an "English" roadster with a handbuilt frame:

http://broadwaybicycleschool.com/mastermodel.html

I used to work near the shop and they used to sell a reconditioned ss or 3sp for $475. Older ubiquitous English frame, like a Raleigh or something, but with all upgraded parts. Looks like they still offer the ss conversion service for the same price.

They offer some other similar style models as well. If I had the cash and were looking for something like an English 3sp, I would definitely go with an ANT bike...

It must have been really nice/mint to go for that kind of $!!How can you compare a $300 Royal Scot with a $1500+ Pashley,Opa,or ANT?Maybe you can afford to plunk down 1500 big ones for a bike.But I sure can't(at least not one without a motor:)).I personally would have went for the Royal Scot.But that's just me.

A 'Royal Scot' is a rebadged Raleigh isn't it?

It must have been really nice/mint to go for that kind of $!!How can you compare a $300 Royal Scot with a $1500+ Pashley,Opa,or ANT?Maybe you can afford to plunk down 1500 big ones for a bike.But I sure can't(at least not one without a motor:)).I personally would have went for the Royal Scot.But that's just me.

Oh it was absolutely in fantastic shape. Shockingly gorgeous.

How can I compare them? Well, there this old Royal Scot... Whattaya mean-how can I compare them?! I'm comparing them by their frame geometry and general function. Whether or not to pay $300 or $1500, well, I'm sorry you can't afford it. As for myself, I'm saving up. And I didn't get the Royal Scot because I can't afford it this month, the bidding went higher than I was willing to go, for a used bicycle of that type.

The Pashleys & Azors cost a lot. That's a fact. The alternative is to buy an old used Raleigh/Robin Hood/Royal Scott/3-speed roadster clone, if you can find one in your area, or that isn't going to cost you another $100 or more to ship to you.

I can't stress enough how difficult it is to find these bikes around here. Maybe I don't know where to look. But you know, they've become a hot item. And "collectors" are snapping them up, and bidding the nice ones up. So for people like me that just want a nice old bike to ride for transportation, I'd have to pay what a collector is willing to pay. Or do the legwork a collector is willing to do to find one in that condition cheap.

If you're lucky you can pick up a beautiful used (seriously!) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270177114913&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=017) bike in your area for a third of what you'd pay for the new Pashley or Azor. And you get what you get. An old bike. Maybe there's no rust in the tubes. Maybe the rear hub will last another 30 years, maybe you'll have to replace it next week. Maybe it'll be complete, maybe you'll have to buy small parts here and there. If you can find them.

This bike for me is not going to be one more bike to throw in the garage and tinker with on weekends. This will be as primary transportation as I can make it. I don't even have a garage, I live in an apartment the size of a hotel room. I don't have room for a collection of vintage bikes. But I do have a need for a low-maintenance, comfortable bike I can ride to work in a suit, and carry my laptop and groceries home on at night.

And while some of my choice is about the retro look, more of it is about riding position and general toughness of the design. I'm also willing to save up and pay for a brand new bike with no need to modify to work the way I want. Besides, there's nothing like that "new bike smell".

But that Royal Scot... well, let's just say, it still hurts, that one getting away. I'll keep looking though, maybe I'll have the luck to find a beautiful old bike at the same time I have enough money to buy it.

I think that some of the more modern renditions of the Raleigh have the potential to live as long as the Raleighs, but you will have to ferret them out. Everybody remembers the old "English racers" with the 3 speed hubs. And the earlier ones were very well built. But by the late 70's they were becoming very poorly built. They were not inexpensive bikes, a brand new Superbe in 1972 cost around $85-$90 which is over $430 in today's dollars. However in some cases the technology has improved, like brakes and the more than 3 speed multi hubs. To me a custom built to fit me bike with an 8 speed Nexus from someone like A.N.T would be well worth the $1500 or so, with proper care it should last a life time. A normal production run bike should sell for about half that (and they do). My biggest beef with bicycles today are the two camps of "you have to have the lightest, latest and greatest" and the "build it cheap". Neither one of which serves the utility cyclist well at all. I got my hands on a Huffy Ocala a few days ago it is not a high qualtiy bike by any means but it would serve well to get someone a couple of miles from point A to point B in relative comfort, and would be affordable. However the only company that seems to even be addressing the lower end market is Walmart and they are doing it with cheap junk that comes out of the store broken. KHS has a bike that may be a contender if they ever get it to market. It is the KHS Green (http://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_07.htm) but I have yet to see one or the pricing on it. Until people in the US stop treating the bicycle as a toy or a high end sporting good product, that is all we are going to get; toys and high end sporting goods.

Aaron:)

My main concern with the remakes is that they are riding on the Raleigh reputation's coat tails.Nothing is built as well as it used to be. I don't see why these bikes should be any different.They're relying on people's fondness and recollections of the old style/days.

This is why I'm asking for folks who've actually seen or ridden one in person. Unfortunately, the only way to acquire one is by mail/telephone/web order. I know of no LBS that carries Pashley or Azor, or Batavus, or Monark, or Kronen. So I can only trust the people importing them and selling them. Hell, you can't even get a decent photograph of one online (If/when I get one, I plan to post copious photos on Flickr).


They look the same as the old ones but are they going to have the same reliability as them? They haven't been around long enough yet to stand the test of time. If you talk to anyone who's had a Raleigh(or one of the many derivitives)95% of them will say that they are almost bullet proof dependable.

Well, steel is steel. Or maybe metallurgy when it comes to manufacturing steel tubes has improved since the golden age of English 3 speeds. Mind you, both Azor & Pashley are hand-built. (whatever that really means). And at the premium price they're asking, they should be providing quality components.

So, yes, it's a lot of money for a bike. But no more than if you were to buy a high-end road or mountain bike. And for the price you're getting brand-new hand-built, lugged steel frames, and quality modern components which follow contemporary standards for which it should be easier to obtain replacement parts. I should never need to buy another bicycle again, unless it gets stolen.


I can't blame you for wanting one,they are way more comfortable and utilitarian to ride.I think you should be patient and wait for the right one(original)to come your way.You're only going to pay too much if you rush it or want it too badly(I find the same holds true for most things).I hope you find bike you want.The bonus with an original is they hold or even go up in value.TBG

Yeah, I don't see the vintage bike as being that much more of an advantage except in the case of price if you can get one cheap, or collectibility, in terms of "wow that's a cool old Robin Hood!". I was looking forward to riding around on my Royal Scot and affecting a bad Scots accent.

This is why I'm asking for folks who've actually seen or ridden one in person. Unfortunately, the only way to acquire one is by mail/telephone/web order. I know of no LBS that carries Pashley or Azor, or Batavus, or Monark, or Kronen. So I can only trust the people importing them and selling them. Hell, you can't even get a decent photograph of one online (If/when I get one, I plan to post copious photos on Flickr).



Well, steel is steel. Or maybe metallurgy when it comes to manufacturing steel tubes has improved since the golden age of English 3 speeds. Mind you, both Azor & Pashley are hand-built. (whatever that really means). And at the premium price they're asking, they should be providing quality components.


From what I've researched, Azor is on the premium end of the spectrum, and for the US market they tend to be outfitted with quality components - designed for for substance over style - the style simply comes from their lineage and history. The bikes I've brought in to test (here (http://littlecircles.typepad.com/)) have been a pleasure to assemble, ride, and look at. I've handed off several of them to customers and they have been very very happy.

The bikes I've brought in have had Shimano Hexus hubs, 8spd rear, dynamo up front. Basta or B&M lights, stainless steel components for all weather use, mudflaps, fenders, etc...

Pics I took of a Azor Swan Deluxe before I delivered it to a happy customer:

http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/images/2007/09/25/swan2.jpg

http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/images/2007/09/25/swan1.jpg


As to this comment:


Nothing is built as well as it used to be. I don't see why these bikes should be any different.They're relying on people's fondness and recollections of the old style/days.

While this is true in some cases, the Azor bikes I've had in house are built for durability and all weather use. They are heavy. They ride incredibly well, the craftsmanship is fine, and the components are well done - I'd much prefer the Nexus red band for a rear hub, but these come with the standard, and I much prefer the Shimano hub dyno to the bottle dyno any day. Quieter, and far less drag when running the lights. Add LED tailights with standlight, and update optics and LEDs (sometimes halogens) for the front - and some things are better with progress... :)

In Azor's case - they make a line of 'modern' bikes. It seems the only thing they update with the classic bikes is the components, lights, and tire technology. Frame manufacturing has probably changed, and steel blends probably as well, along with paint technology... but some things change slowly, and others more quickly.

Compare one of these side by side to an Electra "Amsterdam" and its like looking at a cheap Sony knockoff. Not in the same league - and that can be good or bad depending on where you sit.

Considering how weak the dollar has become against most major world currencies, including the loonie I suspect it is worse than that. Very seldom do I purchase a brand new bike, I typically look at my LBS used rack, yard sales, thrift shops and flea markets. On my desires for the vintage stuff the best choices have come from fellow BF'ers.

Aaron:)

The declining dollar has changed the game in bringing in bikes from overseas... well, at least bike from Europe. Prices have climbed 24% or so in the last 4 months. Just the nature of living in a country that doesn't make much anymore, I guess.

For some pics ro euro style riding, check out Copenhagen Chic (http://littlecircles.typepad.com/little_circles/2007/08/stitches.html)...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2063/1555306528_3c57f69970.jpg

One of my favorite blogs to check.

Ok, I still haven't found my 3 speed bike yet (well, I did, but a 48cm womens is just too small), but I still keep an eye out. How do classic 3 speeds take to the hills? I'd regear it, probably 36 gear inches for low (maybe even lower); but it would always be dealing with hills.

I suspect those Dutch bikes would be an absolute bear around here.

Ok, I still haven't found my 3 speed bike yet (well, I did, but a 48cm womens is just too small), but I still keep an eye out. How do classic 3 speeds take to the hills? I'd regear it, probably 36 gear inches for low (maybe even lower); but it would always be dealing with hills.

I suspect those Dutch bikes would be an absolute bear around here.

You can swap out the cogs and in a worst case the chain ring too.
You're probably not going to ride one across the country... but to town, for errands... all reasonable, even with 3 speeds - and gasp! even with 1.

My Twenty was re-geared so that I have 36, 48, and 64 gear inches and with those little wheels it climbs exceptionally well.

I have been thinking of lowering the gearing on my Superbe as I really like riding in our river valley but climbing with a 42 pound bike that has a low of 50 gear inches is brutal.

Closest grocery store is 9 miles; take-out is closer but I'd be in trouble for taking so long. :) I ride recreationally, and tend to go 20 miles, sometimes 30. I had a short ride that I took in the evening; 14 miles at 800' of climbing; the weekend 26 mile "hill" ride was 1800'. I've been trying lately to ride flatter rides but longer distances, sorta hard to do.

But with winter coming up I'm not sure what I'll do. Probably ride less. :( Already gave up night riding, just wasn't fun anymore once the temp dropped, so I'm down to just one ride per week already.

Hey that mastermodel seems real nice and a great deal! Butted? Cool! Hand build and lighter? Excellent! Three things i did Not like though: Crap Saddle, a threadless headset (pet peeve of mine perhaps others find it an advantage) and the biggest problem: Tight tire clearances! The old English bikes and the Azor tend to have beefy tires for comfort and wheel durability, they will not fit into that frame! But perhaps since the bikes are hand build they could resolve that... If not, a real downside in my book.

Not exactly english 3 speeds, but for people in San Francisco Bay area, I just noticed that Willow Glen bikes (San Jose) has Batavus in stock (at least 2 in the window).... and no I don't work there or own it, but my son did play soccer with the owners son 3 years ago.

Not exactly english 3 speeds, but for people in San Francisco Bay area, I just noticed that Willow Glen bikes (San Jose) has Batavus in stock (at least 2 in the window).... and no I don't work there or own it, but my son did play soccer with the owners son 3 years ago.

I am originally from San Jose. Lived off Meridian and Hamilton/willow Glen area for 10 yrs before the move North over a yr ago. : )

I recall last visit (I tend to visit every few months) the bike shop in Willow Glen had Breezers. That is very cool that they are carrying Dutch bikes like Batavus. Thanks for the post. Maybe I will run into you at Acqui's. Good Mexican isnt always easy to find up north.

By the way...maybe that 3 spd Raleigh I see on Lincoln Ave belongs to you? Seeing bikes like that in San Jo is not real common. I biked regularly on my old schwinn 5 spd cruiser for over 3 yrs before moving. School at SJCC, radio show at Santa University, and to work off Hamilton and Bascom. Just seeing people biking can be a rarity, despite the fine weather... I have a friend in the same complex I used to live in that literally "drives" to the treadmill at bally's gym 3 blocks away!

Nope, three speed is not mine, (I had a columbia in Jr. High )I have an old nishki I rebuilt into a 1x8 commuter utility bike..... (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=293760&highlight=nishiki)

I am seeing more families get on the bike and go to Aqui for mexican food, but in general it is sad how few people get on a bike for the mile or so trip to downtown (I'm at Lincoln and Pine)

The owner of Willow Glen bikes is dutch...so he kind of had to bring these in..... the models I saw were "old dutch" and "personal bike" the batavus site http://usa.batavus.com/

Bascom and Hamilton....how was ebay?

Nope, three speed is not mine, (I had a columbia in Jr. High )I have an old nishki I rebuilt into a 1x8 commuter utility bike..... (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=293760&highlight=nishiki)

I am seeing more families get on the bike and go to Aqui for mexican food, but in general it is sad how few people get on a bike for the mile or so trip to downtown (I'm at Lincoln and Pine)

The owner of Willow Glen bikes is dutch...so he kind of had to bring these in..... the models I saw were "old dutch" and "personal bike" the batavus site http://usa.batavus.com/

Bascom and Hamilton....how was ebay?

Heh. Actually I was working PT at Home Depot in sales for Trane while in school.

I think San Jose is spread out a lot/could use a stronger biking network, but at least it is nice and flat to ride on for the most part. The LG trail is pretty decent to. The drivers on the other hand...:(

Wish they would do "something" with downtown. there seems so little incentive to go there during the day. At night they have all the auto cruisers on weekends acting all obnoxious.

With all this talk about Dutch style bikes, I was wondering what everyone thought about this fleabay seller that sells these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Classic-3-speed-Men-s-DUTCH-Retro-BIKE-black-NEW-Men_W0QQitemZ230187069832QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He's got several types. Are these made in Europe or China? Prices look good. Any thoughts?

With all this talk about Dutch style bikes, I was wondering what everyone thought about this fleabay seller that sells these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Classic-3-speed-Men-s-DUTCH-Retro-BIKE-black-NEW-Men_W0QQitemZ230187069832QQihZ013QQcategoryZ42314QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

He's got several types. Are these made in Europe or China? Prices look good. Any thoughts?

I questioned the same. in fact, I emailed the poster. There was no reply. I tend to think they are China copies. The Jorge and Olif model "Scout" is likely the best entry level value bike out there. At least they are rustproofed.

I picked up two Columbia's at local garage sales, $5 each. Both are equipped with S-A AW 3 speed hubs. The yellow one was bought specifically for the purpose of being a flower basket holder in the back yard. The brown one I dunno, there was room in my garage, so why not. It is a garage mate for my wife's 1960 AMF Hercules,also with a S-A AW hub, also $5 at a garage sale.

Those are some amazing finds! :eek:

[QUOTE=squirtdad;5578447]Nope, three speed is not mine, (I had a columbia in Jr. High )I have an old nishki I rebuilt into a 1x8 commuter utility bike..... (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=293760&highlight=nishiki)



I would very much enjoy a classic Nishkiroad bike such as that with newer coponents and comfy/upright. Sounds like a enjoyable quick urban commuter.

This thread has gone on for pretty much of a year and while I won't be offering up anything that hasn't already been well-said, I can at least raise my hand as another guy who rescues S/A 3-spders from the thrift shops. Mostly electro-forged Chicago adult Schwinns but other makes as well, so long as it's got a S/A or copy hub back there.

I'm new at this, having taken it up only this last January as a retirement hobby, but since January I have managed to bring back to useful life 12 Schwinn 3-spds, 2 Raleighs, 1 Dunelt, 1 Hercules, a Steyr, and one of my favorites - an unknown American bike.

That last one is a VG-condition gorgeous fire-engine red 1967 Holiday Gas Station (Upper Midwest and across the border States as far west as Spokane) promo bike. Has a 1-pc crank so I'm guessing it's American but otherwise its parentage is a mystery.

For my old legs and relaxed riding habits I gear every one of them with a 22T cog.

Hopefully every one of them will be useable for another 30 to 40 years.
alf

This thread has gone on for pretty much of a year and while I won't be offering up anything that hasn't already been well-said, I can at least raise my hand as another guy who rescues S/A 3-spders from the thrift shops. Mostly electro-forged Chicago adult Schwinns but other makes as well, so long as it's got a S/A or copy hub back there.

I'm new at this, having taken it up only this last January as a retirement hobby, but since January I have managed to bring back to useful life 12 Schwinn 3-spds, 2 Raleighs, 1 Dunelt, 1 Hercules, a Steyr, and one of my favorites - an unknown American bike.

That last one is a VG-condition gorgeous fire-engine red 1967 Holiday Gas Station (Upper Midwest and across the border States as far west as Spokane) promo bike. Has a 1-pc crank so I'm guessing it's American but otherwise its parentage is a mystery.

For my old legs and relaxed riding habits I gear every one of them with a 22T cog.

Hopefully every one of them will be useable for another 30 to 40 years.
alf

Alfie,
I would suspect that your Holiday is probably either a Columbia or Huffy built bike...got pictures:p

Aaron:)

Holiday Sportsman
A 1967 bike sold at Holiday Stores (gas stations across the Upper Plains and Mountain States) with a S/A AW hub and shifted by an S/A early twist grip shifter. Rides pretty nice, noticeably lighter than the electro-forged Schwinns and as a rider, compares favorably with my Raleigh Superbe. I have it geared with a 22T cog and the chainring is a 46.

Interesting sidebar, in 40 years the Holiday corporate logo and lettering style have changed little if at all.
alf

I get nostalgic for my good old Raleigh 3-speed, too, but I tend to forget the bad stuff: steel rims meant the brakes barely worked at all when wet. Cotter pin cranks - ugh!

It's relatively easy to fit alloy rims, and I personally don't have too much issue with cottered cranks. Get a good cotter press, and you're all set.

I get nostalgic for my good old Raleigh 3-speed, too, but I tend to forget the bad stuff: steel rims meant the brakes barely worked at all when wet. Cotter pin cranks - ugh!

Unless something breaks in the BB, you never have to take it apart. Just squirt oil down the seattube at regular intervals. Older 3spds had oil ports in the BB, the oil down the seat tube is the same principle.

Yeah, steel rims don't brake well in the wet, but there are brake pads you can get (coolstop salmon?) that give some braking in the wet.

I always liked English 3 speeds, but I thought they were much too heavy, so I built my own with an old lightweight frame and mostly used lightweight parts. It's a joy to ride!

http://inlinethumb09.webshots.com/17096/2156126990068014369S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2156126990068014369Ftorgd)

http://good-times.webshots.com/album/560796524cQRWSB

I would like to disagree with everyone who has posted so far in this thread.

2. These bikes are not all that great. Here is a list of objections I have... mostly this is based on my experiences with an old Columbia that my mom has, perhaps the Raleigh is better:

A. They are heavy.
B. The internal hub is not as bombproof or maintenance-free as is commonly suggested.
C. The frame geometry is weird: short cockpit and short crank arms.
D. A lot of the components are real junk - brakes especially.



Something to what you say, but lets take the those points one by one:

A. Yes they are heavy. They were designed for durability and that was the only way to obtain it in those days.

B. Nope it is not. You really have to keep it oiled and the slack out of the cable. That is perhaps too much to ask of modern people.

C. You are as an adult male talking about a bicycle made for a girl? Hum...? I find a 23 inch man's model quite comfortable to ride.

D. Yes, absolutely, only thing is, they were about as good as you could get at the time. Caliper brakes never really worked well on steel rims, not even if they were Campy's, and alloy rims of the period were not up to the abuse a transportation bicyce got.

The interesting thing is that in impoverished countries the same old bicycle that was modern in 1903, the Raleigh/Phillips 28" Roadster style is still the preferred type of bicycle. The Dutch one someone posted a photo of is the Phillips style, the Raleigh had a single top tube. the advantage of the double top tube is that you can sling a pack over it and use it as sort of a wheeled mule. The Viet Cong moved a lot of supplies that way. Although they seem to agree with you about the hub, most of them are single speeds.

That's what people think of when they look at a Nottingham Raleigh. A bike that's rugged and practically indestructible. My 1968 Raleigh Superbe looks as good as the day it was made.

A point to consider, the quality went down after TI took over in 1960 (The best built ones were from the mid-1950's) so the bikes most of us are bragging about the quality of were considered rather shoddy when new compared to the older ones.

Another point to consider, is that the prices were not usually discounted back in those days so when comparing the prices to todays machines you have to take that into consideration.

That Dutch Secret Service bike someone posted about is actually a modern version of the Light Roadster bicycle (what the Raleigh Sports was), however I get the impression that it is made in rather small quanities pretty much by hand in a country with high wages, so that kind of give you a todays price.

Interestingly some like to compare to the $30-40 price of Indian or Chinese versions, but they do not seem to realize that is ex-factory, unassembled, in container lots. I kind of suspect they go for $100-$150 in local bicycle shops there. By the time you add shipping assembly and taxes you are talking $200, then most wholesalers and dealers want to make a profit, usually a good one. That makes the $400 Yellow Jersey wants for their Eastman Roadster fairly reasonable and realistic.

Remember when it comes to steep hills you can always get off and walk. The classic 3 speed and single speed bikes were always refered to as 'pushbikes' in Britian and her former colonies and this gives the clue to their use. It's a great way to get around and ever since I was a youngster I've used these sort of bikes to explore the countryside. Getting off and walking gives one a chance to use different muscle groups and to catch one's breath. Sawing away at the lowest gear on a 21 speed while barely maintaining forward motion is not my idea of cycling.

When your speed drops to 3-4 mph it is just as quick and takes a lot less energy to get off and push.

As I mentioned in another thread, the bikes were not used by athletes but by everyday Joes, and Jills, for transportation. The object was not to get there as quickly as possible or to get a lot of exercise, but to get there with as little exertion as possible and preferably without getting all sweaty in the process. Typically the bikes were designed and geared to be pedaled in the 30-60 rpm range, not the 100-200 range that modern sport riders expect, or even the 60-120 range I preferred as a commuter.

As a kid in Detroit I had my bike geared 44/16 (correction 46/16) (the LBS did not have a 14 tooth cog) and locked into high; the only place I had to get off and push were the expressway overpasses. I could not do that today (actually 15 years ago before disability), but then I weigh a bit more than I did back then too hauling an extra 100 lbs or so seems to make quite a difference.

I remember my bible back then was a book published in England for enthusiasts about 1950. It had a lot of interesting stuff in it. For instance it recommended using an odd and and even numbered sprocket claiming that they chain would last longer. Another recommendation was using paraffin wax melted on the stove with the chain immersed in it as a chain lubricant and swapping two chains freshly cleaned and lubed weekly. How many of us think twice about having to buy a new chain? I wish I could remember the name of that book I would try to find a copy.