"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Number-crumpling

I have read a few threads where people advocate crumpling/wrinkling up your race number prior to attaching it to your jersey. Allegedly the crumpling gives it more flexibility, allows you to get it nice and tight onto your jersey and reduces wind noise and such.

At a practice race yesterday, we got scolded for doing that, as it's apparently a rules violation (couple of years old rule?) and you can get DQ'd for crumpled numbers.

So, how are people handling this? Leave it uncrumpled and use more safety pins? Crumple anyway and risk being relegated? If you were a former crumpler-turned-uncrumpled racer, how have you handled the increase in apparent Fredosity levels in your own body? Or is it now that uncrumpled=cool and crumpled=Fred? It's hard to keep track of what's Fred and not these days...

Can you get practice DQ'd at a practice race??

Can you get practice DQ'd at a practice race??

Ooh, good one :rolleyes:

Again?? I say crumple away.

At a practice race yesterday, we got scolded for doing that, as it's apparently a rules violation (couple of years old rule?) and you can get DQ'd for crumpled numbers.

If it's a training series, I'm guessing they want to reuse the numbers. That's the only reason I can think of.

I use grizzy tape and never A) crumple my numbers and B) pin them. This stuff works great on jerseys but won't stick to a skin suit.

If it's a training series, I'm guessing they want to reuse the numbers. That's the only reason I can think of.

No. It's actually a rule. From the USCF Rulebook (http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USCF_Rulebook.pdf):

1K4. Racing numbers.
(a) Racing numbers are provided by the organizer, who may
require a deposit that shall be refunded on return of the
numbers in good order. The figures should be black, and be
12 to 14 cm high on a light colored background 20 cm or less
in height and 20 cm wide. The figures shall not be
handwritten, but printed in block letters using waterproof ink.
Numbers shall be constructed from materials sufficiently
durable to last the race without tearing or disintegrating,
even in adverse weather. The name of the race or race
sponsor may appear on a competitor's number. [Promoters
who fail to provide numbers meeting the above requirements
to all riders shall be fined as specified in the Schedule of
Fees.]
(b) Riders shall place their numbers as prescribed by the
officials and in such a way that they are visible when the rider
is in a racing position. Hip numbers shall be attached securely
at least at the four corners and no accessory may cover them.
If shoulder or frame numbers are provided, they too shall be
placed as prescribed. Numbers may not be folded, trimmed,
crumpled, or otherwise defaced. [Replacement of the
numbers at riders' expense if noted before the start,
otherwise warning or relegation.]

The guy told us some refs are more sticklers about it than others and that he'd been warned. I suspect that didn't stop him from doing it again :) . There's no effect for us in the practice series (that is to say, no, we do not get "practice DQ's", as cute as that sounds), other than learning this stuff.

At one of the three crits I've entered I actually saw an official telling the riders to quit crumpling their numbers. Nobody was booted but the guy was obviously sick and tired of it. Apparently the idea is to be able to actually READ the number as you go flying by.

--Steve

Again??

You're right. I should've been the one to bump the "We're going to yell at you." thread instead, but someone beat me to it.

Gotta keep the material fresh, folks!

Number crumpling has to do with cameras and the judges eye. I don't know how many times we've stared at a monitor trying to figure out who the guy with the blue jersey was, 'cause his number looked like Montgomery Burns. Keep it pressed, clean, and in the perfect spot for viewing from the stage. If you are never in the results, then disregard my post.

Here in FL, we have a new rule for '07. We are going 25 deep in FPS races and 35 deep in Championship and Cup races. Might want to keep those numbers clean for us if you want in on that action!

No. It's actually a rule. From the USCF Rulebook (http://www.usacycling.org/forms/USCF_Rulebook.pdf):


The guy told us some refs are more sticklers about it than others and that he'd been warned. I suspect that didn't stop him from doing it again :) . There's no effect for us in the practice series (that is to say, no, we do not get "practice DQ's", as cute as that sounds), other than learning this stuff.

Wow, if that actually gets enforced sometime I might just win one! :D

Wow, if that actually gets enforced sometime I might just win one! :D

So, you're an admitted non-crumpler?

i use 5 pins. 4 on the edges and 1 in the middle. the key is to insert the safety pins so that they're fairly flat with the jersey. that'll keep it nice and snug against the jersey and shouldn't 'parachute' in the wind at all.

So, you're an admitted non-crumpler?

I was until I gave in to peer pressure. :o

3M spray adhesive #77

3M spray adhesive #77

I tried that but it left residue, did you have that problem? The Grizzy tape left no residue.

The kit I race in pretty much always has a number, and always in the same place, so it never bothered me.

I always wonder why teams don't design their kit with little markings where the numbers will go and don't put sponser names there (or discount the space).

And I race in a skinsuit a lot more often than I race in a jersey.

I usually do it, but I recently picked up a better practice when the South African national team was in town. They would fold the leading and trailing edge of their numbers underneath. Now instead of getting yelled at for illegible numbers you can get yelled at for hiding the names of the race sponsors. :)

i use 5 pins. 4 on the edges and 1 in the middle. the key is to insert the safety pins so that they're fairly flat with the jersey. that'll keep it nice and snug against the jersey and shouldn't 'parachute' in the wind at all.

this is what I did yesterday, and I didn't notice my number flapping about at all. I used one on each corner, and a 5th in the "leading" edge of the number. I also noticed that most folks had attached the number sort of under the armpit, so that's where I put mine.

I will be esctatic if I ever reach a level of racing where the aerodynamics of my race number make an appreciable difference. :D

Crumple... they probably will never dq you and most done care at all.
Non-crumple is (still) very fred.
6 pins minimum.

Oh noes! I am t3h fred for not crumpling my numb3r!!!

I will be esctatic if I ever reach a level of racing where the aerodynamics of my race number make an appreciable difference. :D

Ha ha, yeah, I think the aerodynamic gain of a crumpled number is roughly equivalent to that of a shaved leg, perhaps even less :D . But crumpling does seem to allow you to attach it to your jersey a little better (basically it's just making it more flexible), and that in turn seems to reduce flapping and wind noise quite a bit.

I use grizzy tape and never A) crumple my numbers and B) pin them. This stuff works great on jerseys but won't stick to a skin suit.

Hm Grizzly Tape eh... this stuff (http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G1198-Double-Sided-Tape/dp/B0000DD0GE/sr=1-1/qid=1168303693/ref=sr_1_1/102-4461954-6796110?ie=UTF8&m=A2LM8ZC59IT9RX&s=hi)? Might have to try it! If it can hold the entire number down securely in a crit it must be darn strong.

Hey toshi you were there in the mentoring when the other AV guy was saying that, right?

Hm Grizzly Tape eh... this stuff (http://www.amazon.com/Grizzly-G1198-Double-Sided-Tape/dp/B0000DD0GE/sr=1-1/qid=1168303693/ref=sr_1_1/102-4461954-6796110?ie=UTF8&m=A2LM8ZC59IT9RX&s=hi)? Might have to try it! If it can hold the entire number down securely in a crit it must be darn strong.


Yeah that's the stuff, it works pretty good, I still use one safety pin just to be on the safe side. I also have used it in stage races where you have to re-use the number. I just peal it off and put it on the other jersey.

Have worked as a race offical. It is hard to read crumpled and or flapplng numbers during a close multible rider finish. So please don't abuse the numbers as it helps us avoid making a mistake.

Hey toshi you were there in the mentoring when the other AV guy was saying that, right?

Yup. And somewhat related, after our race there was a little follow-up q&a with the group, and one of the mentors at that gathering said "99.9% of you people need to learn to pin your numbers on right." It was funny, or maybe it was just nice to laugh after 40 minutes of pain. :D

one of the mentors at that gathering said "99.9% of you people need to learn to pin your numbers on right."

Yeah, I noticed a *lot* of guys had theirs on upside down or under their armpits or something crazy like that.

i haven't seen riders dq'ed because of crumpled numbers, but i have seen riders lose placings and prizes due to the officials not being able to read the numbers. it's not a good idea to piss off the officials

I almost lost a third place and $65 because the race official couldn't make out my crumpled number. He was nice enough to correct the results, and now I am a non-crumpler.

I believe they fined some guys in Ontario this Summer for crumpling and folding. I was warned in one race this past season in B.C. I won't repeat the offense.

I have a buddy who uses the adhesive spray. I tried it once, but wasn't able to remove the residue from the jersey. Just use a ton of pins, unless you're weight-weenie-ism won't handle it!

Ha ha, yeah, I think the aerodynamic gain of a crumpled number is roughly equivalent to that of a shaved leg, perhaps even less :D . But crumpling does seem to allow you to attach it to your jersey a little better (basically it's just making it more flexible), and that in turn seems to reduce flapping and wind noise quite a bit.Numbers can cause much more drag than leg-hair, although crumpling them doesn't help that much to reduce aero-drag. Even a badly-pinned crumpled number will cause significant aero-drag. You have to use the in-and-out pin technique to force the number to stay flush with the jersey. So each pin goes down into the number, down through the jersey, up through the jersey and up through the number. Two holes per pin through both the number AND jersey simultaneously. Ten holes total with 5 pins (at least one in the middle). This will keep the number from lifting away from the jersey and becoming a parachute, crumpled or not.

...each pin goes down into the number, down through the jersey, up through the jersey and up through the number. Two holes per pin through both the number AND jersey simultaneously. Ten holes total with 5 pins (at least one in the middle)...

You forgot to make sure you pin yer buddies down thru his bibs, then back up thru the jersey ;)

One of these days, somebody's going to lose out on a nice, fat purse because they got DQ'd for crumpling their numbers. Who's the Fred then?


VP

Whatever makes you feel better about it.

I would say that almost all cases of not being able to read the number is a crappy pin job, not the crumple.

Numbers can cause much more drag than leg-hair, although crumpling them doesn't help that much to reduce aero-drag. Even a badly-pinned crumpled number will cause significant aero-drag. You have to use the in-and-out pin technique to force the number to stay flush with the jersey. So each pin goes down into the number, down through the jersey, up through the jersey and up through the number. Two holes per pin through both the number AND jersey simultaneously. Ten holes total with 5 pins (at least one in the middle). This will keep the number from lifting away from the jersey and becoming a parachute, crumpled or not.


That's exactly the technique I had used this past weekend, and I had no issues with my number flapping about.