Cyclist going wrong way.

[2skinnywheels]

I see wrong way cyclists all the time and it infuriates me to no end.:mad: Usually it's some ignorant teenager or some idiot who rides a bicycle because he has no other choice due to a DWI or something but usually it’s in the middle of the day. Last night I was driving down a heavily traveled two lane road. It was raining pretty heavily and it was dark when I meet this car that suddenly swerves over into my lane and then back into his.:eek: I had to tap my brakes and run off the shoulder because I didn’t know what was happing. When I looked over to the other side of the road I noticed a guy on a bike in a dark colored poncho being forced into the ditch and he ended up hitting the culvert popping the back tire about 2 feet off the ground. I was so dumb-founded that I just kept going. Should I have stopped and educated this guy? Has anyone ever talked to one of these people? What did you say and did they listen?

[SSP]

Around here, about once a year one of those guys gets killed in just that kind of scenario. Often, they're drunk (a lot of nighttime bike accidents involve intoxicated "cyclists").

Typically, they wear dark clothing, and have no reflectors or lights (except for the ever present glow of their cigarettes/joints).

Sometimes there's a bit of karma involved. Two years ago, an illegal alien was struck and killed on a rural road by a hit and run drunk driver at 3 am. It turns out the illegal was high on speed, and was cruising the area looking for something to steal (he had a lengthy rap sheet for possession, burglary, etc. and was in possession of burglary tools when he died). On the one hand, it's sad...on the other, well, Darwin was right.

[slowandsteady]

Around here, about once a year one of those guys gets killed in just that kind of scenario. Often, they're drunk (a lot of nighttime bike accidents involve intoxicated "cyclists").

Typically, they wear dark clothing, and have no reflectors or lights (except for the ever present glow of their cigarettes/joints).

Sometimes there's a bit of karma involved. Two years ago, an illegal alien was struck and killed on a rural road by a hit and run drunk driver at 3 am. It turns out the illegal was high on speed, and was cruising the area looking for something to steal (he had a lengthy rap sheet for possession, burglary, etc. and was in possession of burglary tools when he died). On the one hand, it's sad...on the other, well, Darwin was right.


The only problem with your post is that burglary is not punishable by death.

[eubi]

So, 2skinnywheels, you're new here, eh?

I just be sure the wrong way cyclists aren't going to run into me. Life's too short to have a coronary over other peoples' poor choices.

[SSP]

The only problem with your post is that burglary is not punishable by death.

Well, I grew up in Texas where lethal force is permissible during a nighttime burglary. :eek:

Seriously, it's more about poor choices in life (combined with some "wrong place, wrong time" bad luck) sometimes catching up with you...please don't interpret my post to mean that I'm in favor of the death penalty for burglary. :rolleyes:

[chrisvu05]

i saw one the other day going the wrong way on a heavy traffic road while reading the newspaper over his handle bars!!! :eek:

[caloso]

Since New Year's Day, I've yelled at 3 wrongway riders. Two have totally ignored me and one challenged me to a fight. I think for now on I'm just going to say nothing and keep riding.

[Indolent58]

In Southern California when you spot a wrong way cyclist in the distance there is a 97-100% chance that they are Latino. I used to get more worked up about this until I realized that this is how they are taught to ride in Mexico (and any number of other countries). apparently in the belief that it is better to ride against traffic than with it. So right or wrong they are not intentionally being wreckless.

[GaryA]

As my Pa use to say "there's no cure for stupid" ;)

[SSP]

In Southern California when you spot a wrong way cyclist in the distance there is a 97-100% chance that they are Latino. I used to get more worked up about this until I realized that this is how they are taught to ride in Mexico (and any number of other countries). apparently in the belief that it is better to ride against traffic than with it. So right or wrong they are not intentionally being wreckless.

Yeah, but if I were to move to Mexico, and ignored the basic rules of the road there, I would (properly) be perceived as an "Ugly American" or a "Stupid Gringo" (especially if I'd lived there for 10 years and couldn't speak Spanish :rolleyes: ).

[trackhub]

.... Should I have stopped and educated this guy? Has anyone ever talked to one of these people? What did you say and did they listen?

My answers to your three questions are;
- No, it would have been a waste of time.
- I used to try to do this, but gave up on the concept.
- No, they did not listen, and some became agitated, defiant, and confrontational (suburban dad types are great for this) when I tried to tell them how dangerous this is, and that the law requires cyclists to move with traffic. They just don't want to hear it.

This entrenched stupidity is one of the most difficult things to overcome. "You ride against traffic, so you can see the cars coming!!!" is a mantra that has been taught to generations of kids, from clueless parents and others. The list includes school teachers, scout leaders, and that "weird uncle" that every suburban family seems to have.

Don't know what to suggest. Anyone have any ideas?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Don't know what to suggest. Anyone have any ideas?
Yes. Worry about your own cycling behavior, not others' who have no interest in your "concern".

[2skinnywheels]

Yes. Worry about your own cycling behavior, not others' who have no interest in your "concern".

I believe in minding your own business. However, he suprised the oncoming car and caused him to swerve over in my lane. Luckily Karma was on my side this time. Therefore, it all happened a couple seconds soon enough for me to react appropriately. Besides, I just wasn't in the mood to see someone die that day.

[2skinnywheels]

So, 2skinnywheels, you're new here, eh?

I just be sure the wrong way cyclists aren't going to run into me. Life's too short to have a coronary over other peoples' poor choices.

Yes I am new to the forums. Give a couple a weeks and I get board and quit posting stuff. I'm pretty laid back for the most part. I think I can figure out away to tell these guys (nicely) that what they are doing is dangerous. However, I would feel pretty guilty if they took my advice then got creamed by a garbage truck shortly after. :(

[slowandsteady]

i saw one the other day going the wrong way on a heavy traffic road while reading the newspaper over his handle bars!!! :eek:


he probably fell off his trainer and then just kept going. ;)

But seriously, how slow must he be going to be able to read a newspaper with out it flapping in the wind?

[LittleBigMan]

I'm not one for ranting about poor cycling habits like wrong-way riding. I usually just avoid them and say, "You're going the wrong way." Usually there's not enough time even to say that. :) But it's not a laughing matter if you run head-on into one at night without lights.

[caloso]

This morning's Sacramento Bee printed a letter to the editor that actually proposed to require cyclist to ride against motor traffic:

Change law: Pedal against autos

I have read several articles on bike safety and news about people being hit by cars. Now there's a bill requiring motorists to stay at least three feet from bicyclists, but this will do little to reduce accidents, injury or death.

A simple solution is to change the law and put nonmotorized transport into the common sense category -- walking against traffic. In this manner, the bicycle rider can see the car coming and make decisions based on the approach of the vehicle and the driver knowing how the rider is going to respond. The rider can also see people in their car, avoiding the "open door" accidents.

This simple change would result in better safety. One drawback is cars making right turns and entering past the "stopping" area, but the rider would be able to respond quickly. Try it and see for yourself.

- Daniel Javor, Carmichael

I am dumbstruck at the stupidity of this letter.

[GaryA]

This morning's Sacramento Bee printed a letter to the editor that actually proposed to require cyclist to ride against motor traffic:



I am dumbstruck at the stupidity of this letter.

Who ever wrote that can not be a serious rider.

[ken cummings]

Every now and then I chance to be stopped next to a person like that. I make eye contact. smile,and greet them. If I get a positive response back I let them know that they could get points on their now, or future, Drivers' liceinse for doing that whether they feel it is fair or not. If some teenie here is nailed by a cop for blowing a red light or speeding they might have to wait until they are 17 before getting a driving permit.

Last year a young guy biked through a red light in town, causing several cars to smoke their brakes to avoid him. The cop behind me went full lights and sirens, I pulled up onto the sidewalk to let him by, and he took off after the cyclist. All other traffic kindly waited until I could get safely back off the curb.

[noisebeam]

Wrong way riders (two on sidewalk):

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Wrong way riders (two on sidewalk):
Wow, and you lived to tell the tale of this threat to your well-being, amazing. :rolleyes:

BTW, which is the "wrong way" for riders on a sidewalk? Which way is the wrong way for pedestrians on your sidewalks?

[trackhub]

Yes. Worry about your own cycling behavior, not others' who have no interest in your "concern".

Looks like they were right all along.

[joejack951]

This morning's Sacramento Bee printed a letter to the editor that actually proposed to require cyclist to ride against motor traffic:



I am dumbstruck at the stupidity of this letter.

A local paper published a similar letter from a woman claiming that riding against traffic was the law in Virginia and that DE was dumb to have laws requiring cyclists to ride with traffic. More proof that some people think cyclists are only capable of jogging speeds, or just not capable of logical thinking at all.

[JohnBrooking]

If my newspaper published a letter to the editor advocating riding the wrong way, I would write them a response explaining the reasons it is a bad idea. Why let further misinformation go unchallenged in a public forum?

[joejack951]

I did write a response although mine was not published. Another reader wrote a similar letter saying basically the same things I had.

[LittleBigMan]

Whoever suggests cycling against traffic is in the same category as walking against traffic probably doesn't do much of either. Walking against 50 mph. traffic is not enjoyable at all.

There's nothing sillier than non-cyclists giving opinions about how we should ride.

[noisebeam]

Wow, and you lived to tell the tale of this threat to your well-being, amazing. :rolleyes:

BTW, which is the "wrong way" for riders on a sidewalk? Which way is the wrong way for pedestrians on your sidewalks?
If you notice, I didn't make any judgement nor tell any tale - wrong way riders don't bother me, nor do they make for interesting stories. I just had these three video frames handy so I could quickly post them. If I wanted to waste a lot of my time I could search thru my hundreds of hours of video footage and pull up hundreds examples of sidewalk riding and a few dozne examples of wrong way road riding.

It is a published fact that where I live the most common cycling accidents occur to wrong way sidewalk cyclists. Locally a few years ago there was a crack down on sidewalk wrong way riding as it is illegal in the city where these frame grabs were taken:

"Sec. 7-52. Riding on sidewalks or bicycle lanes.
(c) No person shall ride or operate a bicycle in any direction except that permitted by vehicular traffic on the same side of the roadway where the sidewalk or bicycle lane exists; provided, that bicycles may proceed either way where signs or pavement markings on the sidewalk, bikeway or bicycle lane appear designating two-way traffic."

Of course there is no law as to which way pedestrian must walk, nor should there be.

Al

[I-Like-To-Bike]

It is a published fact that where I live the most common cycling accidents occur to wrong way sidewalk cyclists.
Al, haven't you previously posted that most of the cycling where you live also occurs on the sidewalk? Seems logical that most accidents would happen where there is the most exposure.

I suppose that there are few, if any, bicycle accidents in the left lanes of the freeways where you live. Doesn't make that the safest place to ride.

[noisebeam]

Al, haven't you previously posted that most of the cycling where you live also occurs on the sidewalk?
The stats compare wrong way sidewalk to correct way sidewalk and wrong way has far more accidents.

See page 16 of this study:
http://azbikelaw.org/Bikestudy00.ppt#269,16,Slide

Also while there are more sidewalk riders here, I estimate there are far more road miles logged.

Al

[2skinnywheels]

I don't have many sidewalks where I live but if I did, I can't imagine having to dodge dog's, cats, kids on skate boards, fire hydrants, etc. while going 20 miles an hour. I imagine it would be a lot like that video game "Paperboy" which I was not very good at. It was fun and rather addictive though. In my opinion, any way you ride on the sidewalk is the wrong way.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

I don't have many sidewalks where I live but if I did, I can't imagine having to dodge dog's, cats, kids on skate boards, fire hydrants, etc. while going 20 miles an hour. I imagine it would be a lot like that video game "Paperboy" which I was not very good at.
Sounds to me like you have no problem imagining and no problem exaggerating all sorts of terrors of the sidewalk.

[SSP]

Sounds to me like you have no problem imagining and no problem exaggerating all sorts of terrors of the sidewalk.

Notice that he said "while going 20 mph". At your typical 8 mph, those sidewalk obstacles may be easily negotiated, but at 20 mph they become hazards. Perhaps you have a problem imagining what it's like to go fast on a bike.

[scottmorrison99]

In Southern California when you spot a wrong way cyclist in the distance there is a 97-100% chance that they are Latino. I used to get more worked up about this until I realized that this is how they are taught to ride in Mexico (and any number of other countries). apparently in the belief that it is better to ride against traffic than with it. So right or wrong they are not intentionally being wreckless.
Yes, that is how they are taught to ride in Mexico. I have confirmed this with some of my immigrant coworkers. Scary. No excuse for the native born yoyos I see regularly though. Unfortunately they are each an accident looking for a place to happen.

[SSP]

Yes, that is how they are taught to ride in Mexico. I have confirmed this with some of my immigrant coworkers. Scary. No excuse for the native born yoyos I see regularly though. Unfortunately they are each an accident looking for a place to happen.

It's no excuse for immigrants...if I moved to England and insisted on driving on the right because that's how I'd been taught in the US, I would (correctly) be perceived as both ignorant and dangerous.

[bbonnn]

Yes, but who teaches? I mean, there's no compulsory bike education as there is for motorized vehicles. There is information on the Internet and in the vehicle code about how to bike, but it's not taught to adults formally, any more than information about how to walk on sidewalks is (yes, there's LAB, but 99.99999999 percent of adults biking don't avail themselves of their classes). It's more like shared lore. If all your friends bike the wrong way, then that's the way you do it until you learn or are convinced otherwise.

I like the double-sided signs around here for bike lanes. On one side, it says "No Parking. Bike Lane." On the other, "Cyclists: Wrong Way." Perhaps weakening my point, I do still see people biking on the sidewalk, going the wrong way, on those streets, which baffles me, particularly on streets where the bike lanes are opulent, wide and safe. I guess they figure the signage just applies to cyclists in the bike lane.

BTW, not speaking in favor or against compulsory bike education. Personally, my opinion (and I always have one) is under construction on that issue.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Notice that he said "while going 20 mph". At your typical 8 mph, those sidewalk obstacles may be easily negotiated, but at 20 mph they become hazards. Perhaps you have a problem imagining what it's like to go fast on a bike.
Yes, I do have difficulty imagining many cyclists who travel on busy crowded sidewalks at 20 mph. If a few chuckleheaded Real Cyclists (speed is of the essence) are unwilling to slow down based on conditions they are a danger to themselves at any speed. How many cyclists have you seen riding 20mph on busy crowded sidewalks? Any of them those "incompetent" poor immigrant busboys on their Walmart iron riding at 20 mph busy crowded sidewalks?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Perhaps weakening my point, I do still see people biking on the sidewalk, going the wrong way, on those streets, which baffles me,
Posting about riding the wrong way (i.e. direction) on sidewalks does weaken your point.

[slowandsteady]

Yes, I do have difficulty imagining many cyclists who travel on busy crowded sidewalks at 20 mph. If a few chuckleheaded Real Cyclists (speed is of the essence) are unwilling to slow down based on conditions they are a danger to themselves at any speed. How many cyclists have you seen riding 20mph on busy crowded sidewalks? Any of them those "incompetent" poor immigrant busboys on their Walmart iron riding at 20 mph busy crowded sidewalks?


Since when is 20mph dangerous? Anyone who would ride 20mph on a sidewalk is irresponsible, but no one here is claiming to do that. They claim that they ride at that speed and to do so on a sidewalk with all of the obstacles is dangerous. In a city, you can easily find people, dogs, cats, strollers, and numerous other objects in just one block. It isn't an exageration. Maybe it is an exageration in Iowa, but it certainly isn't in any major city on the East coast.

There is nothing inherently wrong with riding at 20 mph. The cars are going way faster than that. And if you have an adequate fitness level you need to ride at that speed to maintain or enhance your fitness. There is nothing wrong with that.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Anyone who would ride 20mph on a sidewalk is irresponsible, but no one here is claiming to do that.

You seem to be confused about who is imagining what. My response was to the phantom cyclists and phantom problem imagined by others of 20 mph cycling on crowded sidewalks. You and I agree that few if any cyclists ride 20mph on busy crowded sidewalks as the the previous posters were imagining and making a lot of noise about the dangers or desirability of such behavior.

I don't have many sidewalks where I live but if I did, I can't imagine having to dodge dog's, cats, kids on skate boards, fire hydrants, etc. while going 20 miles an hour. I imagine it would be a lot like that video game "Paperboy" which I was not very good at. It was fun and rather addictive though. In my opinion, any way you ride on the sidewalk is the wrong way.

Notice that he said "while going 20 mph". At your typical 8 mph, those sidewalk obstacles may be easily negotiated, but at 20 mph they become hazards. Perhaps you have a problem imagining what it's like to go fast on a bike.




Maybe it is an exageration in Iowa, but it certainly isn't in any major city on the East coast.

Again, you seem to be confused about who is imagining what. "It" being crowded or busy sidewalks isn't the issue but the imagined issue/scenario of cyclists riding 20 mph on such sidewalks or the need/desire of imagined cyclists to ride in such a manner

[2skinnywheels]

Sounds to me like you have no problem imagining and no problem exaggerating all sorts of terrors of the sidewalk.

Yes, I do have difficulty imagining many cyclists who travel on busy crowded sidewalks at 20 mph. If a few chuckleheaded Real Cyclists (speed is of the essence) are unwilling to slow down based on conditions they are a danger to themselves at any speed. How many cyclists have you seen riding 20mph on busy crowded sidewalks? Any of them those "incompetent" poor immigrant busboys on their Walmart iron riding at 20 mph busy crowded sidewalks?

Just for the record, I don't ride on the sidewalk. However, If I'm ever forced to for any reason, I will slow down to a reasonable speed as to minimize any dangerous situations. If riding a bicycle at slower speeds on the sidewalk helps you feel safer and less nervous, by all means ride on the sidewalk. I'm not at all opposed to it. Just look out for the pedestrians and
animals if you don't mind. My comments were meant to be taken with a sense of humor in relation to the video game. I like to make people laugh and smile if at all possible but if I offended you, please accept my sincerest apologies.:o

BTW... I imagine people laughing at my silly jokes.

[SSP]

Just for the record, I don't ride on the sidewalk. However, If I'm ever forced to for any reason, I will slow down to a reasonable speed as to minimize any dangerous situations. If riding a bicycle at slower speeds on the sidewalk helps you feel safer and less nervous, by all means ride on the sidewalk. I'm not at all opposed to it. Just look out for the pedestrians and
animals if you don't mind. My comments were meant to be taken with a sense of humor in relation to the video game. I like to make people laugh and smile if at all possible but if I offended you, please accept my sincerest apologies.:o

BTW... I imagine people laughing at my silly jokes.

FWIW, I took your comments with the humor that you intended. ILTB, however, has had his sense of humor surgically removed (thus his serious reply to my parody of his post to you).

[I-Like-To-Bike]

FWIW, I took your comments with the humor that you intended. ILTB, however, has had his sense of humor surgically removed (thus his serious reply to my parody of his post to you).
What you "took" as humor doesn't mean Diddley.
But anyhow, I recognize the sidewalk cycling scare rants as the joke that they are. Can the self proclaimed cycling expert jokers, who whine and cry endlessly about other cyclists who don't fit the experts' profile, who may (or may not) ride on the sidewalk, say the same? Nope, the jokers just continue to pontificate about the wrong ways of the other cyclists. Real funny jokers Ha, Ha.

[2skinnywheels]

What you "took" as humor doesn't mean Diddley.
But anyhow, I recognize the sidewalk cycling scare rants as the joke that they are. Can the self proclaimed cycling expert jokers, who whine and cry endlessly about other cyclists who don't fit the experts' profile, who may (or may not) ride on the sidewalk, say the same? Nope, the jokers just continue to pontificate about the wrong ways of the other cyclists. Real funny jokers Ha, Ha.
ILTB, we are on the same team. Believe it or not, I genuinely care about my safety and the safety of other cyclists. I didn't mean to come across whiny or as a pompous self-proclaimed cycling pro ranting about other cyclist not following protocol. The fact is, I'm nowhere near a professional level cyclist and I don't claim to be. I started the thread because I do get concerned when I see a wrong way cyclist on the road and start wondering if they will make it home. I'm not trying to make anyone feel bad about the way they ride. I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggestions for educating individuals or even communities about proper cycling etiquette. I probably came off a little strong when I said seeing a wrong way cyclist infuriates me. It's not that I'm angry with them as much as I am just frustrated that our education system neglects to cover proper cycling practices.

I'm sorry about the joke. This probably wasn't the place for that and if I knew I would have struck a chord with anyone and ended up completely off the subject, I would have refrained. Truth is, I don't care if people are riding on the sidewalk as long as they are being safe. Like I said before, there aren't many sidewalks where I ride anyway.

Hope this helps.;)

[jwc]

I have a problem with wrong-way cyclists, because I have to dodge them. It is especially bad at night when they have no lights or reflectors.

[wheel]

Well I see very little of wrong way riders or any riders at all.

Wrong way cyclist equals death here. Bicycle lanes and sidewalks is where these people cycle.


Well the next time I am in Tempe I will get a no ridding on sidewalk sign law. I even think they have a direction for a bicycle if I remember.

[SingingSabre]

Well, I grew up in Texas where lethal force is permissible during a nighttime burglary. :eek:

Only if they're in the process of robbing you. If they're already making their exit, lethal force is not permissible, as they're no longer threatening your life.

[SSP]

Only if they're in the process of robbing you. If they're already making their exit, lethal force is not permissible, as they're no longer threatening your life.

Perhaps they've changed the law since I last lived there, but I remember a case in Austin from the late '80's where a guy shot and killed a burglar who was trying to exit his property carrying stereo equipment that he'd stolen from the guy's pickup truck. The burglar was unarmed, and was not an immediate threat to the homeowner because he was in the process of leaving the area. Despite that, the DA declined to file charges, citing the "nighttime burglary" law that permitted deadly force under those circumstances.

As I recall, the burglar in that case was shot in the back (the guy claimed he was just trying to scare the burglar by shooting over the his head, but the driveway went up from the house and so the burglar was struck and killed).

[I-Like-To-Bike]

ILTB, we are on the same team. Believe it or not, I genuinely care about my safety and the safety of other cyclists...

Hope this helps.;)
It does. Thanks for the clarification.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Perhaps they've changed the law since I last lived there, but I remember a case...
As I remember there used to be a lot of cases of people taking the law and a rope into their own hands, with and without the cooperation of the legal community, and with no negative repercussions to the "justice dispensers". But anti-lynching laws have been passed, and even more progressive, are now complied with and/or enforced even in Texas. But perhaps you prefer the good old days of instant justice.

[SSP]

As I remember there used to be a lot of cases of people taking the law and a rope into their own hands, with and without the cooperation of the legal community, and with no negative repercussions to the "justice dispensers". But anti-lynching laws have been passed, and even more progressive, are now complied with and/or enforced even in Texas. But perhaps you prefer the good old days of instant justice.

As the Great Communicator once said, "There you go again...", attempting to put words into someone else's mouth. For someone who's often upset by the "speculation" of others, you're certainly free in your speculation about what motivates others' comments.

FWIW, I was just commenting on the law in effect at the time in Texas. Austin was a bastion of liberalism in a sea of fundamentalist conservatives and there was some outrage in the community over the DA's decision...but, his hands were tied by the laws.