Commuting - Washers to help with knee issues?

Hi; My fiancee's knees turn in a little bit. This causes her her to get sore knees when she rides much more than 20 miles. A friend had similar issues and mentioned that he put a 1/8" washer on each pedal and that by moving his pedals out ever so slightly, it helped keep his knees turned out more than they were otherwise...so no more knee problems.

Has anyone else tried this?

Thanks

You can't use more than a washer, or maybe two, without risking stripping the pedal out of the crank.

I would try adjusting the cleat on the bottom of her shoe so that her foot sits naturally at her preferred angle. If that doesn't work, try the washer.

There are other, more common, causes for knee pain in cycling. Having the seat too low can cause pain in the front of the knee. Pushing too big of gears will do the same; new singlespeed riders often feel pain for this reason. Having the seat too high can cause pain at the back of the knee. The ultimate correction for most cycling induced pain is a fit session from a competent bike shop pro... followed by making the proper adjustments to the bike and possibly some rest for the body followed by gradually increasing saddle time (along with proper stretching, warm-up and cool-down). Even if you are charged for this fit service, it will be money well spent.

That said, here's my $.02 on washers, etc.:

It would seem to me that forcing one's toes to point out more than is the "natural tendency" for that individual would lead to more pain, not less.

I concur with the suggestion to adjust cleats as a first measure. I am a pronator, as well. As a child I was sometimes called "pidgeon toed" but it didn't much bother me. Later, I read that many of the world's fastest sprinters are pronators due to increased efficiency in putting power into the foot/ground connection point in the running motion. How about THAT for an retort to name calling?

Cleats with adequate float are key to my comfort on the bike, as is correct (for me) adjustment of my cleats. I do not try to pedal with me knees out--or even straight. I allow my legs to follow the motion they tend to follow without me thinking about it. Frankly, I don't know where my knees are during the pedal stroke... but I know they don't hit the top tube so I'm not worried about it.

When I first switched to egg beaters, I could feel the spring action so I needed to adjust the cleats a little more than I had with Shimano. The end result is the same with either pedal, however, comfort during and after pedaling.

Originally posted by tchazzard
. A friend had similar issues and mentioned that he put a 1/8" washer on each pedal and that by moving his pedals out ever so slightly, it helped keep his knees turned out more than they were otherwise...so no more knee problems.

I believe what you are talking about is the Q-factor, which kinda boils down to the distance between the pedals (or the distance between the pedal and the center of the frame.)

I too wanted to do something to increase the Q-factor after I realized that I felt very comfortable on a MTB where the pedals were quite far apart versus a road bike where the pedals were closer to the frame.

I considered getting some pedal extenders, but they pushed things out a little too far (and were expensive), then I considered washers, but you can't go out more than a washer or two (as a previous poster noted) before you cause stresses on the pedal/crank connection.

Then I realized that some pedals extend further out from the crank than others. I found a pair of standard MTB pedals (the kind that use clips and straps) that actually had the pedal out about 3/8" farther out than the pedals I used. I put these on the road bike and it worked for me.

So, yes, maybe a washer or two will help - but since I'm not a mechanic I can't tell you how far to go. But if you can find a set of pedals with a longer spindle to achieve the same increase, that might be better yet. Safer, but more costly.

Double-check the rider's position first, eliminating other possible causes of knee problems, before altering the q-factor. Most people need a smaller q-factor, not larger. But it was important for me to increase the Q.

Good luck.

Hi; I should have mentioned that we ride on a Burley tandem with Speedplay pedals. She is able to rotate her feet as she wishes and has been trying to focus more on her knee position.

We have played around with the seat height, but will definitely get a second opinion when it goes in for service next week.

Thanks for all your comments.

Somewhere I`ve seen an extension adaptor made just for that prob. I cant remember where though :(

I had knee problems before using cleats.
A simple test would be to spend a bit of time without cleats and see what happens.

I can still cover 85 miles in a days gently touring but if I do the same with a fast paced group I am in pain for weeks.

I can certainly agree that the gearing is important.

I know that some people hate the suggestion to use WD-40. But here is a great application. Simply apply a coating to the skin around the knees before and after riding.

Grins,
Dave

Orthotics keep my knees very happy, in fact, I just had some made for my cycling shoes.