I've had my share of bad drivers, motorists cursing at me, people flying by with 1 inch clearance etc when I am riding on the road but I had an incident last Saturday that made me lose my temper (I'm normally good at ignoring such incidences).
It was a warm Saturday (almost 70 in Boston, which is unheard of) so I went for a long ride. I got to a long wide road with nary a car and no car in front or even behind me when I heard "Get off the road!!" shouted at me. It came from a Volvo SUV going the OTHER direction. I lost my temper, swung around and followed the SUV. I didn't have far to go, because he had to stop for a red light barely 30 meters from where he yelled at me.
Roll up to the SUV,its windows are rolled up, Mr idiot (who had yelled) and 3 girls. I tell the passenger to roll down the window, and I ask the guy
Me "What did you say?"
Him "You were in the middle of the road?" (Changing his story and rationale)
Me "Do you know the laws of the road?"
Him: Rolls up his window and goes through the green light.
Now, it was a small incident but for some reason pissed me off. I know I was stupid, it could have been some psycho with a gun or could have escalated the situation.
Normally I have a thick skin and let yelling idiots yell and ignore them and pay attention to the really dangerous ones (distracted drivers, borderline homicidal, those intent on teaching the 'cyclist' a lesson etc).
What should I have done different? (I suspect that 'ignoring it' would have been the best option) It's not like he did anything like threaten my life or limb but it sure is irritating.
The BikeForums Team
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What should I have done different? (I suspect that 'ignoring it' would have been the best option) It's not like he did anything like threaten my life or limb but it sure is irritating.
You already know the answer to your question. Next time listen to your reasonable voice inside and ignore irrelevant jabbering.
Brian Ratliff
I've had instances when people going the other direction seemingly honked at me. Don't know what that is about. I tend to ignore it.
ax0n
When my dad was training for a triathlon, he had some guy going the opposite direction slam on his brakes, roll down the window, give him the finger, and scream "Get off the road, ***hole!!!"
I wasn't there to see it, but supposedly my dad waved without so much as slowing down.
I love my dad, but I don't think that's how it happened. He probably returned the bird, screaming "**** you too!" without so much as slowing down.
unkchunk
Hey that's not fair! I get yelled at all the time and can't make out what they say. You get yelled at in a clear and intelligible manner in Summahvul of all places! That's wicked unfaih pal.
banerjek
I love my dad, but I don't think that's how it happened. He probably returned the bird, screaming "**** you too!" without so much as slowing down.
Your dad could be telling the truth. On rare occasions, people yell at me when I'm by myself or with others. I usually can't make out what they say, but it sounds like it might be "Good riding to you!" I often smile and wave.
It's not just an act -- I really am enjoying myself. On my commute, few things lift my spirits like watching everyone else yelling and pounding inside their vehicles because the road is a parking lot. Same basic dynamic, only without the need for the traffic to be hosed.
joejack951
The "yelling at a cyclist going the opposite direction" seems to be confined to the older generation around me. The only explanation must be that they've finally found someone who's going slower than them so they feel the need to yell "get off the road." If I have enough time, I wave at anyone who either honks or yells at me. My way of saying thanks for paying attention.
sbhikes
I had someone honk AND veer into my path to directly threaten my life from the other side of the road. I watched the road daily until I saw him again, got his licence number and turned him in. According to the police, they went to his house to have a word with him.
fordfasterr
On the way home on friday I had a small incident...
as I am approaching a red light (maybe 500 feet ahead) a car approaches and just as he is to my back wheel he honks and goes by me.... so I power up to 5000000 watts and easily catch up ...
so I think -
A. do I curse him out ? (no... learned my lesson already)..
B. do I give him the finger ? ( no.. learned my lesson already) ..
C. do I educate him on the laws of the road ? ( no, already learned that lesson)..
so I selected D: I asked " can I help you ? " right next to his window ... (he had it down).
he answered: " no ".
And I turned and went on my way - Proud that I did not blow up and kick in his crappy door or punch him in the face through the window. lol
=)
jamesdenver
Pick thy battles.
CrosseyedCrickt
why be bothered any more?
you just embarassed the **** out of this guy in front of three chics
he'll not get any for the next few months now
rajman
Maybe we should yell at random drivers, minding their own business to "get off the road" :).
I got cut off on friday by a taxi that used a right turn only lane to pass me on the right through an intersection, while it was snowing. He was dropping off his fare nearby so I gave him an earful (mostly to blow off my own steam). I emphatically reminded him that he; went through the intersection from a right turn only lane, passed a vehicle in an intersection from the right, the road was covered with snow and ice, and he cut me off.
While I did use some intemperate language, I did not insult him, nor did I attack his character. I'm not sure that was the best thing to do, but I had to say something, and I think he twigged that I was upset more than angry.
fordfasterr
......... I emphatically reminded him that he; went through the intersection from a right turn only lane, passed a vehicle in an intersection from the right, the road was covered with snow and ice, and he cut me off.
.......
I would have reminded him that you have his cab # and that you will report him to the police, and to his cab company...
That one was easy !!!! =)
Better yet, take out your cell phone and snap a picture of his face !!!!!!
I-Like-To-Bike
Better yet, take out your cell phone and snap a picture of his face !!!!!!
And what will that prove? Do that often enough to strangers and one of these days somebody will take that phone/camera from you put it some place you won't like!!!!!!!
fordfasterr
And what will that prove? Do that often enough to strangers and one of these days somebody will take that phone/camera from you put it some place you won't like!!!!!!!
This may be true, but I have not learned that lesson yet.
Asudef
You should've replied: "Yeah....you really should."
I'm not such a smart ass but I'm sure you could phrase that really sharply.
To be honest I haven't gotten past the "let it slide" point in my life but I usually do anyways only I get riled up afterwards. I admire people who can just brush things off like that....even when such stupid people are allowed to operate 2 ton weapons and tell sane people off.
trackhub
Well, this one breaks all the stereotypes, that's for certain. A volvo SUV? And kids in the back as well? this is amazing. Where did this take place, in Somerville or in the western 'burbs? The Concord-Wayland-Carlisle area is prime Volvo SUV country. If it helps, I had a similiar experience last August, on route 126 in Wayland. This one was in a BMW SUV though, and moving in the same direction as me.
Rather than pass in a logical manner, he comes far closer than he needs to, and screeches at me to get off the road. Then he floors it. I flipped him off, and yelled "Blow me!", but I doubt he heard it. I guess the overpriced SUV's, McMansions, and trophy wives/girlfriends aren't enough, are they?
That aside, yes, you should have just counted slowly to ten and kept going.(what I should have done) However, as I mentioned in another thread, there comes that moment when everyone just loses it, and you just have to tell the brainless one off.
Wonder what the two girls learned from dad that day?
skydive69
I had someone honk AND veer into my path to directly threaten my life from the other side of the road. I watched the road daily until I saw him again, got his licence number and turned him in. According to the police, they went to his house to have a word with him.
Yeah, sure they did. LOL
kalliergo
And what will that prove? Do that often enough to strangers and one of these days somebody will take that phone/camera from you put it some place you won't like!!!!!!!
Really? For the perfectly legal and appropriate activity of photographing in public?
Who, exactly, ILTB, would resort to assault and battery as a response to having his/her photograph taken? Would you?
kirbyx
Some riders, if not most, are yelled at for stupid reasons that are worth ignoring, but some riders really are clueless.
Two behaviours that make me want to yell at cyclists.
1. Two or more cyclists riding side by side impeding the normal flow of traffic.
2. Pack of club cyclists out for a sunday morning mountain ride filing up the entire lane, with ten cars bihind them. double line in middle of road means no-one can pass, and there are no passing lanes for miles... they even do this uphill (Angeles Crest HIghway).
Ride side by side only when you're going at the same speed as other traffic, and think about other road users.
The "I'm a vehicle too" argument doesn't fly... all road users should repect all other road users... cyclists aren't above ethics or the law.
And yes, I ride. No car in family 'til I was 16, ride 100 miles a week.
baiskeli
why be bothered any more?
you just embarassed the **** out of this guy in front of three chics
he'll not get any for the next few months now
Ya know. I had not even thought of it that way :D
baiskeli
Well, this one breaks all the stereotypes, that's for certain. A volvo SUV? And kids in the back as well? this is amazing. Where did this take place, in Somerville or in the western 'burbs? The Concord-Wayland-Carlisle area is prime Volvo SUV country. If it helps, I had a similiar experience last August, on route 126 in Wayland. This one was in a BMW SUV though, and moving in the same direction as me.
Rather than pass in a logical manner, he comes far closer than he needs to, and screeches at me to get off the road. Then he floors it. I flipped him off, and yelled "Blow me!", but I doubt he heard it. I guess the overpriced SUV's, McMansions, and trophy wives/girlfriends aren't enough, are they?
That aside, yes, you should have just counted slowly to ten and kept going.(what I should have done) However, as I mentioned in another thread, there comes that moment when everyone just loses it, and you just have to tell the brainless one off.
Wonder what the two girls learned from dad that day?
Bingo!, It was in Bedford (you know when you get off the bike path and go up a small hill and turn left to get to route 62 (I think thats it) towards Concord. No kids in the back, there were three women (I'm guessing mid late teens/early twenties, and Mr Idiot (who also seemed about the same age).
buzzman
Bingo!, It was in Bedford (you know when you get off the bike path and go up a small hill and turn left to get to route 62 (I think thats it) towards Concord. No kids in the back, there were three women (I'm guessing mid late teens/early twenties, and Mr Idiot (who also seemed about the same age).
Whoa! Nice call Trackhub! What's going on out there? I've been doing rides out there for years and it's never been as strange. Either I get really polite drivers- a woman in an SUV who trails me up the climb out of Weston the observatory letting me take the lane on the narrow, curvy up hill with no issue passing me at the top of the hill where it's safe for both of us- or I get some real mean spirited aggression worse than anything I encounter in downtown Boston.
It feels a little territorial, kind of like they don't want these bikers taking over the roads near their million dollar Mac Mansions.
I have to say I tend to ignore the a-holes (if I can resist the urge to be one myself) and give the courteous drivers the thumbs up.
I-Like-To-Bike
Really? For the perfectly legal and appropriate activity of photographing in public?
Who, exactly, ILTB, would resort to assault and battery as a response to having his/her photograph taken? Would you?
Really! The poster didn't talk about innocently "photographing in public".
Try being abrasive/belligerent/argumentative with strangers as the poster has suggested, and then whip a camera in their face with no good explanation. And you can be sure that any stranger who is in the middle of an argument will see that action as a belligerent act; and why not? It is. Even without the associated negative/aggressive behaviors, some people will not take kindly, nor consider it "appropriate" to having a stranger get in their face, literally to snap pictures for no good reason known by the photographed subject.
joejack951
Some riders, if not most, are yelled at for stupid reasons that are worth ignoring, but some riders really are clueless.
Two behaviours that make me want to yell at cyclists.
1. Two or more cyclists riding side by side impeding the normal flow of traffic.
2. Pack of club cyclists out for a sunday morning mountain ride filing up the entire lane, with ten cars bihind them. double line in middle of road means no-one can pass, and there are no passing lanes for miles... they even do this uphill (Angeles Crest HIghway).
Ride side by side only when you're going at the same speed as other traffic, and think about other road users.
The "I'm a vehicle too" argument doesn't fly... all road users should repect all other road users... cyclists aren't above ethics or the law.
And yes, I ride. No car in family 'til I was 16, ride 100 miles a week.
What's the difference between two cyclists riding side by side in a lane and one full size slow moving vehicle in the lane? Oh, that's right, it's easy. You can still see around the cyclists enough to be able to pass them easily. Please familiarize yourself with the laws about side by side riding before you go yelling at any cyclists for doing something that is perfectly legal (in most states), even though (god forbid) other traffic may have to slow for a bit.
banerjek
... Please familiarize yourself with the laws about side by side riding before you go yelling at any cyclists for doing something that is perfectly legal (in most states), even though (god forbid) other traffic may have to slow for a bit.
Legal and smart ain't the same thing. Cars need to move in a way that doesn't endanger cyclists. However, cyclists shouldn't be inconsiderate of motorists either. It's one thing to slow them for a bit, and it's totally another to gum things up for a long time. Share the road should mean exactly that.
This means that if there are no passing opportunities for cars, you need to drift over a bit to let them by. Besides, in some states, slow moving vehicles are legally required to pull out at certain areas. Last time I checked, bikes are vehicles.
If you are considerate of others, they will reciprocate the vast majority of the time. Act like your needs are much more important than everyone else's', and you shouldn't be surprised when you get abused.
joejack951
Legal and smart ain't the same thing. Cars need to move in a way that doesn't endanger cyclists. However, cyclists shouldn't be inconsiderate of motorists either. It's one thing to slow them for a bit, and it's totally another to gum things up for a long time. Share the road should mean exactly that.
This means that if there are no passing opportunities for cars, you need to drift over a bit to let them by. Besides, in some states, slow moving vehicles are legally required to pull out at certain areas. Last time I checked, bikes are vehicles.
If you are considerate of others, they will reciprocate the vast majority of the time. Act like your needs are much more important than everyone else's', and you shouldn't be surprised when you get abused.
If there are no passing oppurtunities for cars, what difference does it make if there are single file cyclists in front of them or two side by side cyclists in front of them? If moving over still doesn't allow them to use the same lane to pass, what difference does it make if you don't move over? Of course, if the road is wide enough to share when the cyclists are single file, that is when moving over makes a difference and is the considerate thing to do. Or if two side by side cyclists don't leave enough room for the car to pass with adequate clearance even when using the other lane (very narrow lane roads).
In some states, slow moving vehicles are required to pull over when there are 5 or more vehicles being slowed down unreasonably and when there is an area provided to pull over into. Only in an extreme case will I pull off the roadway completely (I have used driveways to pull over) to allow traffic to pass. When there's no good place to pull over, that's the breaks. Sorry.
I-Like-To-Bike
Really? For the perfectly legal and appropriate activity of photographing in public?
Who, exactly, ILTB, would resort to assault and battery as a response to having his/her photograph taken? Would you?
Further comment on legal and appropriate. Perfectly appropriate then to post the pictures with your own one-sided captions, to the Internet for others to sneer and make smarmy comments about the people inthe picture? With identifying info like a license plate number for even more invasion of privacy issues?
See
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=257996
Even though the poster thinks his pictures reveal something about his bicycling encounter, they don't show a thing except a couple annoyed with some Jackass snapping their picture/invading their privacy. Who knows if the the people pictured want to have photographs of themselves together at that time and place publicized. You can be sure the poster/photographer never asked permission.
kalliergo
With identifying info like a license plate number for even more invasion of privacy issues?
My, this certainly seems to disturb you.
You should probably get over it, if you intend to remain here in America. You don't have any legal expectation of privacy that covers your appearance or behavior in public places.
When you appear in public, your image, your actions, your statements are all fair game for others to observe, record, share, comment upon (subject to the laws covering libel and slander), etc. If you don't want your photo taken, stay on private property (and in places on that property that can't be seen from the public realm or from other private places).
If you were to actually assault that person with the camera phone who makes you so angry, you could well end up in a cell where the guards use CCTV to watch you on the toilet. You'd probably really dislike that.
I-Like-To-Bike
My, this certainly seems to disturb you.
And my, you seem to be the naive waif. Go ahead and get involved in street confrontations with hot headed strangers who are already angry at you and whip your camera out and see how that affects cutesy attitude. See if they give a poo about your imaginary press pass.
kalliergo
And my, you seem to be the naive waif.
I assure you, you wouldn't say that if you knew me. You absolutely would not say it more than once.
If this is the sort of childish name-calling and brain-dead spouting that characterizes these forums (there is clearly a lot of it; ILTB has posted here an *average* of nearly seven times per day for more than two years), I think I'll find a more civilized cycling discussion.
Sayonara, folks.
I-Like-To-Bike
I assure you, you wouldn't say that if you knew me. You absolutely would not say it more than once.
If this is the sort of childish name-calling and brain-dead spouting that characterizes these forums (there is clearly a lot of it; ILTB has posted here an *average* of nearly seven times per day for more than two years), I think I'll find a more civilized cycling discussion.
Sayonara, folks.
What? no pictures? B-Bye!
slagjumper
I say that I understand their rage and that is why I stopped driving.
banerjek
If there are no passing oppurtunities for cars, what difference does it make if there are single file cyclists in front of them or two side by side cyclists in front of them? If moving over still doesn't allow them to use the same lane to pass, what difference does it make if you don't move over? Of course, if the road is wide enough to share when the cyclists are single file, that is when moving over makes a difference and is the considerate thing to do...
As a practical matter, it shouldn't. However, I think that changing to single file is still a good move because it signals to the drivers that you are doing everything you possibly can to let them through. This makes motorists friendlier since they're more likely to believe you're trying to work with them. Having said that, I think it is unwise to pull too far to the right if there really isn't enough space for them to get through or they might try an unsafe pass.
Like you, I leave the road entirely on very rare occasions. I think cyclists should avoid doing this when at all possible because it sends the wrong message. Cars frequently hold each other up when people wait to turn left across busy lanes of traffic, enter/exit parking spaces, etc. Minor delays for bikes should also be acceptable.
Situations where a car will be stuck for a significant period of time behind a bike are quite rare in real world conditions.
joejack951
As a practical matter, it shouldn't. However, I think that changing to single file is still a good move because it signals to the drivers that you are doing everything you possibly can to let them through. This makes motorists friendlier since they're more likely to believe you're trying to work with them. Having said that, I think it is unwise to pull too far to the right if there really isn't enough space for them to get through or they might try an unsafe pass.
Just as pulling too far right can invite an unwanted pass, so can singling up when riding two abreast. I agree that it can send a single that you are doing everything you can to encourage a pass but often I'm doing everything I can to discourage a pass and singling up works against me in those situations. I do try and work with motorists though. If I find that riding two abreast is significantly hampering passing for some reason, then I will switch to single file. As long as faster traffic can pass when it should be passing, I'll stay two abreast and enjoy my ride.
Like you, I leave the road entirely on very rare occasions. I think cyclists should avoid doing this when at all possible because it sends the wrong message. Cars frequently hold each other up when people wait to turn left across busy lanes of traffic, enter/exit parking spaces, etc. Minor delays for bikes should also be acceptable.
Agreed entirely. As a driver of a slow moving vehicle, I make way more effort to facilitate the flow of traffic than other slow moving vehicles I see on the road (mostly because I'm way more manueverable).
Situations where a car will be stuck for a significant period of time behind a bike are quite rare in real world conditions.
Agreed again. I can count on one hand how many times in 3 years I've stopped to allow traffic to pass because I was holding it up unreasonably.
kirbyx
What's the difference between two cyclists riding side by side in a lane and one full size slow moving vehicle in the lane? Oh, that's right, it's easy. You can still see around the cyclists enough to be able to pass them easily. Please familiarize yourself with the laws about side by side riding before you go yelling at any cyclists for doing something that is perfectly legal (in most states), even though (god forbid) other traffic may have to slow for a bit.
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
Yes, there are laws that allow bikes to ride side by side, but there are also laws against obstructing traffic. A single slow moving vehicle can't do much about it's width, but two slow cyclists riding side by side on a narrow busy highway chatting to each other during rush hour... sure, you can defend the idiots, and I do understand the point of doing so on legal grounds... but they still don't give a stih about other road users and they are still idiots. Most cyclists and most car drivers seem to respect each other very well, but, of course, there are exceptions in both camps.
I ride defensively around Pasadena CA, and it's neighboring mountains, and haven't been the victim of driver aggression in twenty years here and thirty in England. Now, stupidity... that's another matter, especially when the churches empty.
And I have never yelled at bikes... I just want to whan I see selfish sashole behaviour.
Being in a car doesn't make one right, being on a bike doesn't make one right.
joejack951
Thank you for your thoughtful reply.
Yes, there are laws that allow bikes to ride side by side, but there are also laws against obstructing traffic. A single slow moving vehicle can't do much about it's width, but two slow cyclists riding side by side on a narrow busy highway chatting to each other during rush hour... sure, you can defend the idiots, and I do understand the point of doing so on legal grounds... but they still don't give a stih about other road users and they are still idiots. Most cyclists and most car drivers seem to respect each other very well, but, of course, there are exceptions in both camps.
I ride defensively around Pasadena CA, and it's neighboring mountains, and haven't been the victim of driver aggression in twenty years here and thirty in England. Now, stupidity... that's another matter, especially when the churches empty.
And I have never yelled at bikes... I just want to whan I see selfish sashole behaviour.
Being in a car doesn't make one right, being on a bike doesn't make one right.
Again, what difference does it make if the cyclists are side by side or singled up if there is plenty of room to pass on the left either way? Why do you conclude that the side by side cyclists are obstructing traffic and are idiots?
Obstructing traffic and causing traffic to slow are two completely different things. Just about every time you drive a car, even if you never go below the speed limit, you cause traffic to slow (i.e. if you have to cross a major road and make the light change). Obstructing traffic, on the other hand, is purposefully slowing down traffic for the sake of slowing down traffic (I don't want to debate Critical Mass, but some Critical Mass rides are intended to obstruct traffic based on what I've seen/read). There are laws against obstructing traffic and there are also laws against unnecessarily slowing down traffic. You are not allowed under any circumstance to obstruct traffic but you can slow traffic for many reasons, such as not being capable of going any faster. In these situations, faster traffic is supposed to slow down to your speed and pass when safe. If faster traffic is unreasonably delayed (sometimes quantified as 5 or more cars being delayed) the slow moving vehicle(s) should pull off the roadway at an area provided for such movement (or at some safe location) and let the faster traffic go.
kirbyx
Again, what difference does it make if the cyclists are side by side or singled up if there is plenty of room to pass on the left either way? Why do you conclude that the side by side cyclists are obstructing traffic and are idiots?
Obstructing traffic and causing traffic to slow are two completely different things. Just about every time you drive a car, even if you never go below the speed limit, you cause traffic to slow (i.e. if you have to cross a major road and make the light change). Obstructing traffic, on the other hand, is purposefully slowing down traffic for the sake of slowing down traffic (I don't want to debate Critical Mass, but some Critical Mass rides are intended to obstruct traffic based on what I've seen/read). There are laws against obstructing traffic and there are also laws against unnecessarily slowing down traffic. You are not allowed under any circumstance to obstruct traffic but you can slow traffic for many reasons, such as not being capable of going any faster. In these situations, faster traffic is supposed to slow down to your speed and pass when safe. If faster traffic is unreasonably delayed (sometimes quantified as 5 or more cars being delayed) the slow moving vehicle(s) should pull off the roadway at an area provided for such movement (or at some safe location) and let the faster traffic go.
I do understand your position, but I don't think you are trying particularly hard to read with understanding,... we may even agree. In my post I am not complaining about all who ride side by side, but those who do so without thinking of other road users... example "two slow cyclists riding side by side on a narrow busy highway chatting to each other during rush hour". Side by side on a wide highway with lots of room for cars to pass... fine... why wouldn't it be?
trackhub
Whoa! Nice call Trackhub! What's going on out there? I've been doing rides out there for years and it's never been as strange. Either I get really polite drivers- a woman in an SUV who trails me up the climb out of Weston the observatory letting me take the lane on the narrow, curvy up hill with no issue passing me at the top of the hill where it's safe for both of us- or I get some real mean spirited aggression worse than anything I encounter in downtown Boston.
It feels a little territorial, kind of like they don't want these bikers taking over the roads near their million dollar Mac Mansions.
I have to say I tend to ignore the a-holes (if I can resist the urge to be one myself) and give the courteous drivers the thumbs up.
The area of Concord-Lincoln-Wayland, etc. has been popular with cyclists for a long time. These towns are especially popular with the big clubs on weekends. It's only within the past five years or so that I've noticed a "change" going on. I've had my own share of verbal harassment in this area, and so have a lot of others. Stories of cyclists being honked at, yelled at, and buzzed while riding near Concord center are becoming legendary. Most of these legends involve pricey SUV's. Coincidence? I think not.
Two odd facts:
There was a plan to extend the Minuteman Bikeway to Concord, but this was stopped. Concord residents didn't like the idea. Concord is a town where the residents usually get what they want.
Weston, one of the wealthiest (many use the word "elitist") towns in the state, said "no!" to the proposed construction of the Mass Central Rail trail. It's now very questionable as to whether this will ever be built. (a short length has been completed, out near Northhampton, but that's it. )
I've been honked at quite a few times while riding through Weston. Sunday afternoons, traffic is incredibly light, and they still feel the need to honk as they pass. This simply didn't happen ten years ago. Not to mention some of the "death looks"....
This change in attitude is cause for concern, I think.
joejack951
I do understand your position, but I don't think you are trying particularly hard to read with understanding,... we may even agree. In my post I am not complaining about all who ride side by side, but those who do so without thinking of other road users... example "two slow cyclists riding side by side on a narrow busy highway chatting to each other during rush hour". Side by side on a wide highway with lots of room for cars to pass... fine... why wouldn't it be?
I think that in general we probably agree, but I still see nothing wrong with "riding side by side on a busy highway chatting during rush hour" assuming that the road is not wide enough such that traffic could easily pass without leaving their lane if the cyclists were single file. If they were causing an unreasonable delay, they should pull off the roadway at the first safe location and allow the faster traffic to pass though. Do you see the difference between our statements? They do agree that cyclists should not unnecessarily impede the flow of traffic. My point is that riding side by side on a normal narrow roadway (9-10 foot wide lanes) usually doesn't impede traffic any more than two single file cyclists would in the same situation.
buzzman
The area of Concord-Lincoln-Wayland, etc. has been popular with cyclists for a long time. These towns are especially popular with the big clubs on weekends. It's only within the past five years or so that I've noticed a "change" going on. I've had my own share of verbal harassment in this area, and so have a lot of others. Stories of cyclists being honked at, yelled at, and buzzed while riding near Concord center are becoming legendary. Most of these legends involve pricey SUV's. Coincidence? I think not.
Two odd facts:
There was a plan to extend the Minuteman Bikeway to Concord, but this was stopped. Concord residents didn't like the idea. Concord is a town where the residents usually get what they want.
Weston, one of the wealthiest (many use the word "elitist") towns in the state, said "no!" to the proposed construction of the Mass Central Rail trail. It's now very questionable as to whether this will ever be built. (a short length has been completed, out near Northhampton, but that's it. )
I've been honked at quite a few times while riding through Weston. Sunday afternoons, traffic is incredibly light, and they still feel the need to honk as they pass. This simply didn't happen ten years ago. Not to mention some of the "death looks"....
This change in attitude is cause for concern, I think.
Yes, I, too, see an interesting parallel in those resistances to the continuation of the Minuteman Bikeway and the Weston Rail Trail. The objections, if I recall correctly, had to do with a false perception that the bike paths would be an open invitation to criminal activity in the back yards of bike path abutters. Interesting that they don't take note of the abundance of broken beer bottles, trash and evidence of small fires that are presently all along the old abandoned railway bed. There has been no increase in crime along any of the areas abutting the present Minuteman Bike Path and The Rail Trails has a tremendous amount of evidence showing bike paths reduce crime rates and increase property values nationally. Of course, Weston and Concord's property values could not get any higher so a bike path would have a minimal effect at best.
These communities, which are filled with cell phone users, have strongly resisted putting cell phone towers in their towns as well. If they could build a cell phone tower in a neighboring community that served them they'd be all for it but they are the kings and queens of "not in my backyard!"
banerjek
... I agree that it can send a single that you are doing everything you can to encourage a pass but often I'm doing everything I can to discourage a pass and singling up works against me in those situations. I do try and work with motorists though....
One technique that works pretty well for preventing people from passing when it would be unsafe for them and you is to ride a bit erratically. The look to go for is "bonking cyclist who doesn't seem to be totally there."
This is a violation of the basic rule that cyclists should be as predictable as possible. However, it makes sense in this case because it keeps motorists from calculating margins that are too narrow. It also allows you to hold people up without making it look like you're doing it on purpose -- this prevents hostile reactions. If you can provoke curiosity and get them to forget about losing a few seconds, they won't be so mad.
joejack951
One technique that works pretty well for preventing people from passing when it would be unsafe for them and you is to ride a bit erratically. The look to go for is "bonking cyclist who doesn't seem to be totally there."
This is a violation of the basic rule that cyclists should be as predictable as possible. However, it makes sense in this case because it keeps motorists from calculating margins that are too narrow. It also allows you to hold people up without making it look like you're doing it on purpose -- this prevents hostile reactions. If you can provoke curiosity and get them to forget about losing a few seconds, they won't be so mad.
The close/stupid passes that I get are infrequent enough that I don't feel the need to act erractic to get more space. Those who plan on close passing me will probably do so regardless of how predictable they feel I am and I feel like I'd be jeopardizing my own safety trying to throw them off.
If you use this technique, do you do it for every approaching vehicle and how long will you continue swerving once they've stopped behind you? If you don't do it for every vehicle, how do you discriminate? It might be worth a try if you have some good examples.
Sirrobinofcoxly
I usually go for the casual flip off which says "I don't care". If they are going the same direction as me, I take pleasure in passing them in traffic, and going about my day.
Maybe that's not the best rout either, but it satisfies my revenge button.
banerjek
If you use this technique, do you do it for every approaching vehicle and how long will you continue swerving once they've stopped behind you? If you don't do it for every vehicle, how do you discriminate? It might be worth a try if you have some good examples.
I do this only very rarely and use only it as a last resort when I think someone will pass someplace where it's particularly dangerous. An example would be that you might be climbing on a narrow winding mountain road with no shoulder. You're on a short stretch where there's only about 50 yards tops to the next curve so no one can see far enough. Rock face or dropoff to your right (i.e. no way to bail out). You really need people to stay behind you and not pass because there is not enough room if they try to do something and another vehicle suddenly appears.
It is not used for every vehicle. Rather, it is just to buy a few seconds in critical areas. Sections like these are very rare, and they tend to occur on lightly traveled roads so the situations don't last long. If I get cars slowed down to my speed, I often signal when I want them to pass. If they start out at my speed, I don't mind if they're much closer than they normally would be for a 60mph pass.
trackhub
Yes, I, too, see an interesting parallel in those resistances to the continuation of the Minuteman Bikeway and the Weston Rail Trail. The objections, if I recall correctly, had to do with a false perception that the bike paths would be an open invitation to criminal activity in the back yards of bike path abutters. Interesting that they don't take note of the abundance of broken beer bottles, trash and evidence of small fires that are presently all along the old abandoned railway bed. There has been no increase in crime along any of the areas abutting the present Minuteman Bike Path and The Rail Trails has a tremendous amount of evidence showing bike paths reduce crime rates and increase property values nationally. Of course, Weston and Concord's property values could not get any higher so a bike path would have a minimal effect at best.
These communities, which are filled with cell phone users, have strongly resisted putting cell phone towers in their towns as well. If they could build a cell phone tower in a neighboring community that served them they'd be all for it but they are the kings and queens of "not in my backyard!"
Isn't it funny that so many realtors in the towns of Bedford, Lexington, and Arlington mention that a home for sale is "right near the bike path"?
Yeah, they're the kings and queens of NIMBY, that's for certain. This is a shame, because the Mass Central Rail Trail would have been a "Crowning Achievement", if it had been built as planned.
Off topic: There is one (and only one) homeless guy in Weston. He lives along the railroad right of way. Where's he's situated, he's about 1/8th of a mile from the closest residence. Walking or riding along the right of way (it's ridable in many areas, on a mountain bike) you might find his, er,,campsite. It consists of several sleeping bags, a tent, or on occasion, a lean-to, and lots of cans, bottles, and assorted things he's dump picked. He rides a bicycle at all hours, collecting cans and bottles. Maybe you've seen him. He's easy to spot, as his bike is loaded with enormous bags of cans. The latest I have seen him was at around 11 PM one summer night, right in Weston Center. Heh, fancy that.
Oddly enough, Weston permits him to stay, as long as he doesn't bother anyone. I suspect though, that if he ever tried to move closer to the town center, he would be "dealt with".
Helmet Head
Many people out there believe any time a cyclist is riding in "car space" he is doing something wrong. Every now and then, they yell something to that effect. Ignore it, and please do not add fuel to the fire by support cyclist-segregating infrastructure.
Bekologist
i think bike facilites both integrated to regional road grids, AND multiple use trails, can add and benefit communities. Out here, a multiple use pathway goes in, property values go up and people clamor to live near the trails. must make for better family experiences as well as give property better $$ when it goes to be resold.
High quality bike lanes integrated into a regional roadway grid eases conflict between different modes of transportation on public rights of way. With high quality bike lanes integrated into roadway striping plans, some of the popular routes around the places the OP posts about woul d become more bicycle friendly and people in their cars would naturally experience less conflict with riders sharing roadway space via integrated, high quality bike lanes.
Curious how there is both anti- recreational cooridor resistance among riche communites out east, as well as anti-cycling sentiment from the driving public.
If I'M riding with another, and we are two abreast, I'll go single file when its safe to allow other cars to pass. seems the respectable, fair thing to do while sharing the roads, bike lane or no bike lane!
I wonder why the cagers don't want us sharing the roads. Bikes were on the roads first. HH, you're a driving expert, why don't cagers like bikes to be in the road?
buzzman
Many people out there believe any time a cyclist is riding in "car space" he is doing something wrong. Every now and then, they yell something to that effect. Ignore it, and please do not add fuel to the fire by support cyclist-segregating infrastructure.
bug off. You don't ride in Weston, Concord, Wayland and know little or nothing about the proposed Central Mass Rail Trail nor the extremely successful Minuteman Bike Path.
Come on out, ride those trails, ride the nearby roads- which are wonderful for cycling by the way (and neither of us are willing to give them up I'm sure) and then venture an opinion. I've ridden the length and breadth of California and a considerable amount in the San Diego area. When you can say the same about the roads we're talking about then I'll listen to your "advice".