Living Car Free - living car free

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

You can do what you wish, but why do you feel the need to come to the car free forum to announce it in such an aggressive tone? Are you looking for a fight?

If you give up the car you have so much free cash you can shop at non-big box stores, pay a tiny bit more, and still come out way ahead. Live closer to work, shop a little bit every day or two, get big items delivered, and never have the hassle of having to find a parking spot, fill up at the pumps, renew your license and insurance, or wait in gridlock.

http://xtracycle.com/albums/real_loads/10_18_03_costco.jpg

http://xtracycle.com/albums/real_loads/10_18_03_costco.jpg
Nice! :D

Hope to be able to join the "car free" ranks more and more over the next few months, pics like that give me hope that it's doable.

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

"think outside the cage"... :D :D :D

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

Sure you can. My brother and I plan to buy a Burley flatbed together and do that very thing.

You can do what you wish, but why do you feel the need to come to the car free forum to announce it in such an aggressive tone? Are you looking for a fight?

If you give up the car you have so much free cash you can shop at non-big box stores, pay a tiny bit more, and still come out way ahead. Live closer to work, shop a little bit every day or two, get big items delivered, and never have the hassle of having to find a parking spot, fill up at the pumps, renew your license and insurance, or wait in gridlock.

+1.

Of all the excuses not to go car free, being able to haul a bunch of stuff from Costco has got to be one of the sillier ones.

"think outside the cage"... :D :D :D

...or outside the box...the big box Costco, that is...

I shop at Costco too, using my car, but...

If you buy $100 at Costco, and you figure you save, what, 10% over the grocery store ? That's a sheer guess. OK, let's go with it, let's say you save $10.

You'd BETTER have driven less than 20 miles RT to go there. At 20 miles you're at breakeven, because the car costs you, on average, 50 cents per mile (2007 IRS mileage allowance for businesses is 48.5 cents per mile).

So what are you REALLY saving, after you blend in the cost of motorized transportation?

Note - if you think you save more than 10%, and you live closer to COSTCO, then the math changes accordingly.




sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

I'm sorry for you too. And sorry for the people who breathe your exhaust. And sorry for the social projects which won't be funded to keep raods maintained for you. But mostly, I am sorry that people value buying "stuff" more than the well-being of other people.

Of course this is a troll post, but it brilliantly illustrates how sick our society is.

I shop at Costco too, using my car, but...

If you buy $100 at Costco, and you figure you save, what, 10% over the grocery store ? That's a sheer guess. OK, let's go with it, let's say you save $10.

You'd BETTER have driven less than 20 miles RT to go there. At 20 miles you're at breakeven, because the car costs you, on average, 50 cents per mile (2007 IRS mileage allowance for businesses is 48.5 cents per mile).

So what are you REALLY saving, after you blend in the cost of motorized transportation?

Note - if you think you save more than 10%, and you live closer to COSTCO, then the math changes accordingly.
My general observation is that you don't save much at all at the "wholesale" clubs. We have a Sam's club that I have gone to on occasion. I maintain an excel data sheet in my hand held with prices of staple goods at the various places I shop. Typically Sam's was near the top of the list in higher prices, mainly on things like coffee, sugar and paper goods. Most people have been brainwashed into thinking just because it is in a big package it is a good deal. You also have to take into the consideration; are you going to use all of the bulk product you saved all that money on? Or are you going to be throwing part of it out because it goes stale? My lovely wife loved to buy the huge boxes of Honey Nut Cheerios, total savings over the small box might have been $0.25 or so. But typically the last 1/4 of the box would be stale and have to be tossed...no savings there. My time is also worth something. I can ride my bike 1.5 miles to the nearest grocery store, do my shopping and be back home in under 45 minutes. The trip to Sam's club requires the car and at least 1.5 hours for driving and shopping.

Aaron:)

And if you really want to talk nickles and dimes, think of it from an investing point of view.

If you "stock up" at COSTCO, you've dumped all your money into paper plates, napkins, cereal, and canned and frozen foods. Unless you have five kids, that stuff will sit in your pantry for the next week, month, maybe more. The return on your investment is zero. Even a 2-3 percent savings account can beat that.

It costs big companies money to wharehouse stuff, and to truck it. It costs you money to store it, and drive it, too.

Of course, if you're already in debt from your car loan, savings like this are just drops in the bucket.

A troll with a sorry excuse trying to provoke an angry response. Truthfully a post like that does not deserve any response, but for the benefit of those who are sincerely considering going car-free and seeing this thing as an obstacle, here are some thoughts on the matter:

Do you really even need to buy sh!tloads of stuff at Costco? Does it really save you that much money? Enough money to be paying for all your car expenses?

Oh, it does? Gee... Well, how about ditching your car anyway and renting once a month to buy all that Costco crap? That way you'll save so much more!

Or perhaps an Xtracycle or a trailer is all you need? You want believe how much ***** those things hold.

But honestly, do you really need all that Costco stuff you so eloquently refered to as "*****"? Do you really need the experience of shopping in an ugly warehouse store with boring items, carting it all through a drab parking lot to your car, driving for miles along ugly drab roads to dump all that stuff in your basement and have it rot there and clutter up your life?

Ok, you really do? Well, good luck to you. Keep driving. Who cares? This is a forum for people who want to be car-free or car-light or are at least considering the option. What's the point of your coming here and announcing that you wanna keep driving? Do you come to, um, I donno, a guitar-playing forum to announce that your fingers are too short to play guitar and therefore you won't be playing it ever in your life?

The items that you can really save on at Costco or Sam's Club are things like vitamins and OTC medicines. (On fish oil capsules alone, I save the annual cost of membership at Sam's.) And of course those things can be carried easily in a backpack or messnger bag.

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!
na975--if you care to, read some of the posts on this board. You will find that we've worked out a lot of the problems that come along with carfree living. If you're seriously interested, I think you'll be surprised--shocked really--and you'll probably come away with a lot of new respect for bicycles and their tremendous utility as tools and transportation.

To other carfree living users--Actually, I don't think that na975 is a troll. He's a long-time member who does a lot of posting. He has a provocative manner, at least in this post, but he raises a legitimate issue about using bikes to haul heavy loads.

I try to remember that most BF members are strictly recreational, fitness or competetive riders. They really are clueless when it comes to using bikes as tools and transportation.

Get on Craigslist find a ride. Use flexcar.

I say troll trol your boat!~

To other carfree living users--Actually, I don't think that na975 is a troll. He's a long-time member who does a lot of posting. He has a provocative manner, at least in this post, but he raises a legitimate issue about using bikes to haul heavy loads. Some trolls are long-time members who do a lot of posting. I don't think anybody minds the subject matter (hauling heavy loads). It's all about the manner. It's like coming to an A&S forum and opening a new thread with one sentence in it: "You're all nuts for riding on the road, you're gonna get killed." I don't care who posts it - a newbie or someone with a lot of posts - it's still trolling. If the OP was truly interested in discussing this subject, he could've searched the car-free foruma figuring something like this was probably already discussed - or at least he could've phrased things in way that tells people "I'm genuinly interested in how you guys deal with hauling heavy loads without cars" as opposed to "I wanna troll!"

http://bikesatwork.com/hauling-cargo-by-bike/carrying-old-refrigerator.jpg

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

Certain people like to say how the car-free forum is pretty smug. (And yes, the "smug emissions" thread reminded me of that.)

The OP is perhaps proof that smugness can come from people with and without cars. (I daresay it transcends politics too!)

Not only can you go shopping and get a bunch of stuff, you can shoot past all the idiot cagers in the parking lot! For local store hopping in particular, I'm at least as fast on the bike as the car, if not faster. All the headaches of getting from one parking lot to the next become moot, plus you can cruise around and window shop from your bike. One of the big upsides to the bike this past year has been making shopping fun again.

Generally I don't like to go to Costco and buy a ****load of crap. I prefer buying purchases daily and walking them home. Or putting them in a backpack. Most large items you can have delivered, I think.
Generally, I suspect, I'd miss a car when I decided we need a get away and a bike can't get you far enough fast enough. Of course there is the train. With a wife, we will always need a car. But, without one, personally, I think it would not be a crisis. You can always rent one.
I love the feeling. You unload your bike off the train with full panniers. No car. Check your map and off you ride. Felt like sort of a challenge, but I loved the sensation of taking to the road on my touring bike. Did not think once, wish I had my car. I was the feel of freedom.

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

I thought this was more a sarcastic staement than anything else....
will na975 please stand up and clarify?
not that it really matters but folks seem interested in your meening.
time to ride home and have a beer, cheers:D

Some trolls are long-time members who do a lot of posting. ... If the OP was truly interested in discussing this subject, he could've searched the car-free foruma figuring something like this was probably already discussed - or at least he could've phrased things in way that tells people "I'm genuinly interested in how you guys deal with hauling heavy loads without cars" as opposed to "I wanna troll!"

Bingo!

...time to ride home and have a beer, cheers:D
D'oh! Here I am contemplating going car-light and I forgot one of the great motivators...if I ride more I'll have more caloric room for BEER!!!! :D

It's true that a car free lifestyle keeps you from buying a lot of useless junk in mass quantities. Isn't that a good reason to try it?:)

Certain people like to say how the car-free forum is pretty smug. (And yes, the "smug emissions" thread reminded me of that.)

The OP is perhaps proof that smugness can come from people with and without cars. (I daresay it transcends politics too!)
At least we have something to be smug about. ;)

http://xtracycle.com/albums/real_loads/10_18_03_costco.jpg


The picture of a genius!!! I love it!!


Fiona
Zen-girl
I hope to achieve total zen someday..I think I will be on a bike at the time too:D

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

most costco's offer a delivery service (i work there) :D

this is just awesome!!:

http://xtracycle.com/albums/real_loads/10_18_03_costco.jpg

most costco's offer a delivery service (i work there) :D
Case closed! :)

I guess when you have a car it is the easy way to do things. They cost so much that if you were not to use it, it would be a waste.

Apperently owning a car is like a government. When there is a problem you just throw more money at it and hope things get better.

http://xtracycle.com/albums/real_loads/10_18_03_costco.jpg

Sorry if this is off topic, but are you concerned at all about wheel strength with that wheelset? I'd be afraid that the weight of me + $$$$load of stuff from Costco would stress the wheels beyond their tolerance.

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

There isn't a single Costco in the entire state. So I guess it's not a problem.

I really admire you folks that can live car free. You must all live in the city or at least near a small town or area where you can do your shopping using your bicycle or walking. I live a solid ten miles from any store and there are too many hills for me to traverse with a loaded bike unless I want to walk. When I lived in the city I rarely used my car and my wife and I walked everywhere or biked, plus we had a small garden in the back yard. After moving back to the country, where houses are less expensive, we have to use a automobile just to get to work on time. We aren't in our twenties anymore and commuting 56 miles a day five days a week would not work well, not to mention there are no buses for ten miles. I try to use my bike for anything within a ten mile radius. Church, paying the electric bill, visiting friends etc. but work demands that I be fresh and rested. I do plan to commute two days a week at one of my job locations but that is only a 36 mile round trip and will be done in the spring and summer only. Weather and darkness keep me from doing it year round. We try to limit our use of our cars and try to purchase our stuff after work and make our trips to town as productive as possible. I feel sorry for anyone that wants to ride but can't due to their profession or their need for a work truck with big heavy tools. Its a nice idea but a bit of a utopian one.:(

I really admire you folks that can live car free. You must all live in the city or at least near a small town or area where you can do your shopping using your bicycle or walking. I live a solid ten miles from any store and there are too many hills for me to traverse with a loaded bike unless I want to walk. When I lived in the city I rarely used my car and my wife and I walked everywhere or biked, plus we had a small garden in the back yard. After moving back to the country, where houses are less expensive, we have to use a automobile just to get to work on time. We aren't in our twenties anymore and commuting 56 miles a day five days a week would not work well, not to mention there are no buses for ten miles. I try to use my bike for anything within a ten mile radius. Church, paying the electric bill, visiting friends etc. but work demands that I be fresh and rested. I do plan to commute two days a week at one of my job locations but that is only a 36 mile round trip and will be done in the spring and summer only. Weather and darkness keep me from doing it year round. We try to limit our use of our cars and try to purchase our stuff after work and make our trips to town as productive as possible. I feel sorry for anyone that wants to ride but can't due to their profession or their need for a work truck with big heavy tools. Its a nice idea but a bit of a utopian one.:(

It's about choices. You picked your location for its house prices but you're paying extra in time, car costs, lost health benefits perhaps isolation, and so on. But that's fine, we all have to balance our various needs and commitments. You're mitigating your car commuting to a degree by using your bike for local transport, and perhaps at a later stage of life you'll move back into town or find work closer to home, or make some other arrangement. Personally I don't know how fresh and rested I'd feel after 28 miles of car commuting.
PS we own a car, so I'm not totally car free, but I paid a lot to live 5 miles from work to avoid driving.

Charles,
As cooker pointed out...we all make our choices. I used to live in a decent cycling city, made some choices that took away my ability to cycle commute. In many ways I regret those choices but life moves on. For the past 9 years I have not had a job that I could cycle commute to due to financial obligations (alimony, child support, college costs, etc) We are in the process of working our way back to the point I was at 15 years ago. In another 2-3 years we should be there. We will probably never be completely car free, but it will be a small car and get driven very infrequently. We currently live in what used to be a rural area, it is fast becoming suburban:( in fact 8,000 new homes are being built with in 2 miles of our 40 acres. It is looking like in a couple more years we will sell this place and move back into a small town where we have a retail shop. Or we may choose a different path and move somewhere totally different. IMHO too many people allow "stuff" (material things to get in the way of their lives) I know I did.

Aaron:)

Yea.....the choice to live in the country wasn't difficult and I did manage to work from home for about 15 years or so. Only in the last few years I have had to commute to other locations for work but thats only part time with the other days of the week spent working from home. Still, I have a long route to make my rounds, although I plan to cycle this once a week, in fair weather, along with a bus ride. I was considering a Bike Friday to make the trips more convenient but havn't settled on that yet. Overall, I have managed to avoid the high cost of owning new cars and I have been able to write off my mileage with the Tax boys nearly paying me to drive my 1981 Izuzu. We've made choices that have been unconventional to most people, living cheap and avoiding too many material luxuries....except for cool bikes. Actually those are mostly 1970-1980's refurbs. I do have a newer recumbent and plan on a Long Haul Trucker for something that will hold up to alot of miles. I figure I can get maybe 15 years of riding it with the normal maintainance. My average mileage is only 2500-3000 per year but I plan to up that this next year. If I could do without a car I would for sure but not at this point in life. As I get closer to 60 or 65 things may change although this may not be for the better since health issues can change everything.:(

sorry, i can't live without me car. the bikes cool but lets face it,you cant go to costcos to buy a sh$t load of stuff without it!

Sounds like he works for the BUSH admin. Well everything supports solid reasoning behind it only one problem.
It won't make money for the economy; therefore WE don't support that.

The Costco reason is pretty ridiculous. I have a couple of other issues, such as hauling raw materials to build with when I build things, and going out to shows, museums, etc. It's not possible to get to an LA museum (60 miles away) or show at night because there simply is no public transportation. The trains don't run late enough to be able to do a lot of the things that we want to do -- like support the local arts and such. It's pathetic, really. This huge metropolis and no way in or out on the weekends. Nor is there public transportation that runs to friends and family within 100 miles.

Even more pathetic is that there used to be an electric car line that ran from my city to LA in 60 minutes -- called the Red Line. It got lost in the conversion to automobiles and highways -- yes, this line ran in the early 20th C. and we have yet to recapture its efficiency.

Anyway that's what the wife and I use cars for mostly. For my part, I'll be biking a whole lot more for a while --

I sold my car today

:beer: