Southern California - Angeles Crest Highway- safety

Hi,

Hope it's OK I'm posting this here. I searched the advocacy/safety forum and didn't find anything exclusively devoted to this topic.

Rode for the first time on the Angeles Crest yesterday (a Tuesday, early afternoon). Some shoulders were narrow (and some were full of rock fragments). Not much traffic. I did wave for a car to pass me on the descent. (I was in the lane, since I couldn't hug the shoulder line and feel safe; I moved closer to the edge to let the car by.)

I really wondered what would happen if I was on one of those blind curves where the rock wall is directly against the shoulder, and a driver who wasn't paying attention cut in close in the center of the turn. Some of the trucks (including snowplows) are pretty big too.

So the vistas were stunning, but I sometimes wondered: Is this risk worth it?

Are there any stats on bike crashes/fatalities on this road?

I avoid riding AC unless I'm with a group.

my word on the decents are to take as MUCH of the lane as needed, most cases I'm going ALOT faster then cars are through the turns, if there is a long straight and no cars coming from the other way, I'll wave cars to pass me. If there is rocks on the shoulder and what not, again take as much of the lanes as needed, last thing you need is a flat going down the Mt at 40+

I avoid riding AC unless I'm with a group.A group that includes a medic.

Hi,

Hope it's OK I'm posting this here. I searched the advocacy/safety forum and didn't find anything exclusively devoted to this topic.



This would be the exact place you should post this. :) I've ridden up and down that highway several times and I hate it. It is a gorgeous climb and descent, but the drivers are way too aggressive and too close for my comfort. I'll go down it (and did a couple of times last year), but prefer not to. You can climb Big Tujunga (or little, whichever) and get to Angeles Crest past the most dangerous part IMHO. There are beautiful roads up there to explore. The expert I know on that area is Vertical Bob. You should PM him as he can tell you all about where you can ride that would be safer on the crest.

A group that includes a medic.

No, my HMO card.....:p

The trick to riding AC safely is to time it when there isn't a lot of traffic. If you do it on a weekend, yeah, you're taking your life in your hands. Same goes for rush hour. The Palmdale/Lancaster commuters are even more dangerous then the weekenders. After the Northridge earthquake closed hwy 14, everyone came over AC into La Canada and it was terrifying. I don't think I rode it more then once or twice during that time. But if you find yourself on it around 10am on a weekday, there's hardly a soul on it.

I haven't ridden the crest a lot lately, but even on weekends I don't mind it that much-- if there's tourist traffic there tend to be "slow" cars that keep the speeds down. I usually ride it with only a few other people. On the way up it's pretty easy to ride the white line and you can generally hear traffic at well before it's near you. On the descent I encounter relatively few cars, even if I'm not bombing it, and the speed difference is relatively small so they have plenty of time to react.

My two closest calls were actually in light traffic when vehicles coming in the opposite direction (uphill in both cases) were going too fast and started fishtailing while pointed at me. One was a forest service light pickup trying (unsuccessfully) to keep up with a highway patrol car. One of my neighbors did get rear ended on his bike on the 2- he wasn't injured but it did enough damage to the bike that he got a new one.

Another option for the climb up is to take Chaney Trail->Mt. Lowe railroad/fire road to Mt. Wilson road. I did that on monday and it was pretty nice. We decided to descend back the same way because it's sunnier and warmer than the 2. We did it on road bikes-- it's not too bad except for a couple really rocky patches just before Mt. Wilson Rd.

I like to avoid the lower section from Foothill to Clear Creek,(the intersection with Angeles Forest). I prefer to use Big Tujunga or drive to Red Box and ride from there.

i don't have any problem with it. just watch out for the 'palmdale 500' the commuters from palmdale to l.a. in the morning, cuz they're flying and late for work, it's like nascar they're all nose to tail. they come across angeles forest hwy and then down the crest. so if you were to go up big tujunga to angeles forest and then down the crest you would have problems in the early morning with afh (angeles forest hwy) and ach (angeles crest hwy), after that time and location it's fine.

as a sportbike (motorcycle) rider it's sad to say that many of the fatalities up there are sportbike riders. sometime in the warm weather when it gets busy, it's like one a week. as a cyclist you can hear them coming from a long way away, so just move over to the right and give them some room and if your riding side by side, drop back and move over

b'duck, that sounds really cool! how steep is it? do i need a little lower gears or can i make it on the same gears i climb to mt wilson on? do you have to walk the rocky section? sounds like i need to fix my cross bike

as a sportbike (motorcycle) rider it's sad to say that many of the fatalities up there are sportbike riders. sometime in the warm weather when it gets busy, it's like one a week.


Ahh so you must remeber Officer Stout ?

oh yeah, that's why when i want to go fast i go to the track

oh yeah, that's why when i want to go fast i go to the track

You got that right. I bet we've run into each other before on the road and on the track.

b'duck, that sounds really cool! how steep is it? do i need a little lower gears or can i make it on the same gears i climb to mt wilson on? do you have to walk the rocky section? sounds like i need to fix my cross bike

I did it in a 39x25, but I climb pretty well for my size. Smaller gears are probably a good idea-- I've seen people walking their mountain bikes up. There are a few sections where you really have to walk due to the rockyness, but probably less than a few hundred yards. The rest pretty much depends on your handling skills to avoid pinch flats, especially on the descent. If you have a cross bike with relatively fat tires you might be able to do it without walking-- on a mountain bike it's pretty easy without so much as a dab. Descending is almost as slow as climbing, if only to avoid getting your arms beat up by the bouncing-- you pretty much want to stay out of the saddle and use arms and legs as shocks most of the way down.

Only thing I might add is if you take Big Tujunga up to Angeles Forest, you can go north on Angeles Forest, past Hidden Springs, and catch the upper section of Big Tujunga which intersects with Angeles Crest above Red Box near Charlton Flats. That avoids SB morning traffic. IMHO, one of the best suggestions I've heard on descents, . . . don't worry about traffic behind. You control your lane until you are in a place you feel comfortable letting vehicles pass.

. . . don't worry about traffic behind. You control your lane until you are in a place you feel comfortable letting vehicles pass.

Uh...yeah. Not so much. Those cars have come so close to me "contolling the lane" that I could have applied lipstick in their rearview mirrors! I don't understand stupid drivers!:mad:

i usually just pass the cars that get in my way.

that other road is upper big tujunga which is really confusing and they are two different roads. motorcyclists know it as 'nine mile' and you've got to be at about 90mph to have any fun

i don't have any problem with it. just watch out for the 'palmdale 500' the commuters from palmdale to l.a. in the morning, cuz they're flying and late for work, it's like nascar they're all nose to tail. they come across angeles forest hwy and then down the crest. so if you were to go up big tujunga to angeles forest and then down the crest you would have problems in the early morning with afh (angeles forest hwy) and ach (angeles crest hwy), after that time and location it's fine.



This is very true. I've flown down angeles forest and angeles crest in the past with my tires screachin around some of the turns. I wouldn't feel very safe riding AC during heavy traffic times.

riding against traffic, not great.
riding with traffic, no way!

Quite possibly the worse place to ride around in that area!

I say better to post here than in A&S, you need a flame retardant suit to post there! :D

On the downhills I'll either be clearly in the lane (so it's obvious drivers can't pass), or clearly far enough right (so it's obvious drivers can pass safely) if the road widens a bit. I don't want to be stuck in the "in between" situation, otherwise drivers pass really closely, trying to thread the needle between the centerline and you.

Sometimes on the uphills I'll be out in the lane a bit to be visible on the curves, then move over to the right as traffic approaches. I don't mind doing that because I can listen for traffic and I use a glasses-mounted mirror.

Having said all that, my favorite time to ride the Crest is early weekday mornings, taking the Metrolink from OC to Glendale, and then riding up from there after a 10 mile warmup. The traffic is almost non-existent then. I like to ride all the way to Wrightwood.

http://www.briandesousa.com/bicycling/road/hwy2.htm

"On the downhills I'll either be clearly in the lane (so it's obvious drivers can't pass), or clearly far enough right (so it's obvious drivers can pass safely) if the road widens a bit. I don't want to be stuck in the "in between" situation, otherwise drivers pass really closely, trying to thread the needle between the centerline and you."

Try Brian's method M.E. I think you'll find drivers willing to yield as long as you're maintaining a somewhat reasonable speed and yielding to them when it's safe to do so. But then, I could be wrong.:( :eek:

Another option for the climb up is to take Chaney Trail->Mt. Lowe railroad/fire road to Mt. Wilson road. I did that on monday and it was pretty nice. We decided to descend back the same way because it's sunnier and warmer than the 2. We did it on road bikes-- it's not too bad except for a couple really rocky patches just before Mt. Wilson Rd.

Just standard slicks? Is it mostly paved, or just hardpacked?

bitingduck, are you talking about the trail from the end of Lake Street and through the tunnel at the top? If so, it seems like that would be hard on your tires, not to mention 39x25?

I've ridden up Chaney Trail just up to Inspiration Point on my mountain bike. The trail is paved part of the way. I would imagine one can ride road slicks up there as the trail is hard packed and non-technical although I remember dismounting and walking through a couple of areas where mini landslides had buried small portions of the trail further up.

bitingduck, are you talking about the trail from the end of Lake Street and through the tunnel at the top? If so, it seems like that would be hard on your tires, not to mention 39x25?

Not the singletrack from the end of lake street-- you go down Loma Alta to the west a little and there's a road called Chaney Trail that leads to the Mt. Lowe Railroad/fire road (no train tracks there for decades, but nice little signs). The pavement ends at the same place that the singletrack comes out onto the fire road. I've done the singletrack from the top of lake, but only on a mountain bike at night.

Most people wouldn't be very happy on Chaney with a 39x25.

Yes, I use standard road slicks (right now it looks like one conti gatorskin and one conti ultra 2K, both 700x23) pumped hard to avoid pinch flats.

Right now there are no little landslides blocking the trail, but a few spots near the tunnel where the rocks are very large and not very rideable on road tires, mostly it's ok, depending on your definition of ok.

"On the downhills I'll either be clearly in the lane (so it's obvious drivers can't pass), or clearly far enough right (so it's obvious drivers can pass safely) if the road widens a bit. I don't want to be stuck in the "in between" situation, otherwise drivers pass really closely, trying to thread the needle between the centerline and you."

Try Brian's method M.E. I think you'll find drivers willing to yield as long as you're maintaining a somewhat reasonable speed and yielding to them when it's safe to do so. But then, I could be wrong.:( :eek:

True and mind you, I'm still kicking and ornery, so obviously I've made it down safely. :p I just don't like it! I'm always a little nervous and rushing to get down it. Now, Hwy 39? Doesn't bother me at all, and there are cars on it as well.

Hi,

Hope it's OK I'm posting this here. I searched the advocacy/safety forum and didn't find anything exclusively devoted to this topic.

Rode for the first time on the Angeles Crest yesterday (a Tuesday, early afternoon). Some shoulders were narrow (and some were full of rock fragments). Not much traffic. I did wave for a car to pass me on the descent. (I was in the lane, since I couldn't hug the shoulder line and feel safe; I moved closer to the edge to let the car by.)

I really wondered what would happen if I was on one of those blind curves where the rock wall is directly against the shoulder, and a driver who wasn't paying attention cut in close in the center of the turn. Some of the trucks (including snowplows) are pretty big too.

So the vistas were stunning, but I sometimes wondered: Is this risk worth it?

Are there any stats on bike crashes/fatalities on this road? I think riding on A.C. is much safer than PCH. The problem is that many riders think they are riding around the Rose Bowl and want to spread out across the whole lane. Suicide. NEVER ride two or more abreast, its the law. I think everyone should drive up before they ride up on an Saturday am and see what an obstacle cyclists in the middle of the road are to cars.It's quite and education. When we do our rides from Red Box we pass many people going up on bikes and even I get annoyed with them and I'm a cyclist, much less a raging motorcyclist. I stay far to the right and have never had a problem. Probably been up there 100 times. On the descent I take a lane and hold it till there is an opportunity to let cars past. Remember that we are going not much slower than the cars but always let them pass when able. A friendly wave always helps. I'll be up there Saturday on a white ICE. See ya.

I'll be up there Saturday on a white ICE. See ya.
Hey Bob, got your message. Thanks for being flexible. I'm working now on presentation #1 (yes, and still peeking on here too :p). Where you riding up there that will have ice? Wilson? Or along AC? If so, watch out! :eek:

Hey Bob, got your message. Thanks for being flexible. I'm working now on presentation #1 (yes, and still peeking on here too :p). Where you riding up there that will have ice? Wilson? Or along AC? If so, watch out! :eek:I.C.E. Innovative Cycling Engineers.

Hey Bob, got your message. Thanks for being flexible. I'm working now on presentation #1 (yes, and still peeking on here too :p). Where you riding up there that will have ice? Wilson? Or along AC? If so, watch out! :eek:I'll be sitting on the I.C.E.

Angeles Crest Hwy isn't a place you want to ride on a weekend for sure!!!
I use to ride up early mornings with a group on our bikes (Motorcycles) that is and get back before 10:30am before the young kids come up, after that you'll be risking your life with bikes racing up and down the road at 100mph+
Maybe the trails but not the pavement.

Maybe the trails but not the pavement.

Hey, I checked your link out. Nice shots! :)