Foo - Are You Changing Oil Too Often ?

Not even every 11-12K miles is necessary--just a new filter is needed.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/?p=2945


Peek Oil?
By Paul Niedermeyer
January 13th, 2007 7,908 Views

dsc_0024s2222.jpgIt’s easier to convince an Evangelical that Christ was a grifter than to persuade pistonheads to give up their regular oil change. Yea, verily, the maniacal motorists believe in the healing power of regular visits to the Church of St. Pennzoil. And they certainly have the Gospel of Jiffy Lube on their sides: Thou shalt change thy oil every 3k miles or your engine will blow up in an explosion of fire and brimstone. Well I hereby give pistonheads permission to skip their next regularly scheduled motor oil change. And the one after that one. In fact, if you’re not planning to keep your car for all eternity, consider forgetting oil changes altogether.

Many decades ago, when metallurgy, tolerances, manufacturing precision and various aspects of engine controls (as well as the oil itself) were profoundly more primitive, the 3k mile oil change interval had a logical basis. Crude carburetor chokes caused overly rich mixtures, dumping raw gas onto cylinder walls that worked its way down into the crankcase. Poorly fitted rings caused blow-by, which had the same effect with nasty combustion byproducts. And poor tolerances created rapid wear, which released and circulated metal particles throughout the engine. People drove shorter distances, and cars often didn’t warm up enough to burn off contaminants. To travel 100k miles without an engine rebuild was a genuine accomplishment.

By the sixties, improvements in all of these mission critical areas led manufacturers to adopt an industry standard 6k mile oil change interval. Since then, recommended oil change intervals have risen as high as 10k miles. At the same time, many high end cars ECU’s (e.g. BMW, Porsche) now monitor engine and environmental operating conditions and calculate the ideal interval for an oil change– sometimes well into the teens.

When is the last time you heard of someone experiencing an engine failure (in normal use) that could be verifiably traced to damage from insufficient lubrication due to infrequent oil changes? Oil never wears out. It can become contaminated and certain additive characteristics can change. But in normal operational use in modern engines, this usually happens quite slowly.

And yet the 3k mile mantra can be heard everywhere: newspaper and magazine articles, on-line forums, radio talk shows and, of course, all the obvious and more subtle forms of advertising by the oil manufacturers and the oil change industry. When Jiffy Lube puts a sticker on my windshield warning me that my next oil change is due in 3k miles, it’s clear who benefits most from these regular visits, and it ain’t me or my car.

These days, it’s common to hear of documented engine life of 500k miles and more. A fleet of Chevy gasoline V8 pickups pulling trailers delivering car parts overnight all over the Midwest has run a number of bow tie bombers to over 600K without failure. A 1987 Saab 900 just hit the million mile mark without an engine rebuild. Yes, the Saab owner used expensive synthetic oil and changed it regularly in his million mile quest. But how long are you planning to keep your car?

Still not convinced? Da Vinci Code time. In the mid-80’s, Germany’s leading car magazine Auto, Motor und Sport ran a VW Golf with a 1.6 liter gasoline engine for 100,000 kilometers (62,000 miles) without changing the motor oil or filter. They then tore down the engine completely and examined every single moving part [microscopically] for signs of wear and tear. What little wear they could find was not engine life threatening and fit within normal operating parameters for the given mileage.

Obviously, I don’t expect pistonheads to forgo engine oil changes completely– if only because following manufacturer’s recommendations safeguards your potential warranty claims. Still, if warranty isn’t an issue and you’re not planning on keeping your car past 150k or so, and you run it under favorable conditions– a long commute, lots of highway miles, milder climate, etc. — consider extended intervals. If you have a three year lease, well, that’s between you and your conscience.

Meanwhile, the situation with gasoline and octane levels is roughly analogous. A couple of years ago, AM&S did another extensive test, running cars whose manufacturers called for premium fuel on regular gas. The result: performance and fuel economy losses ranged from zero to mid-single digit percentages. I don’t need to tell you that it can be a LOT cheaper to fill your car’s tank with a lower grade of fuel. And don’t worry about damaging your engine; modern detonation sensors constantly adjust ignition timing to be optimal for the fuel being burned and prevent pre-ignition.

Pistonheads who lavish low interval oil changes and high octane go-juice on the cherishd machines do so more for their own peace of mind than their car’s mechanical needs. It’s sweet, but unnecessary.

I never change my oil. I just take it out, wash it off, and put it back in.

Then there's that other class of driver.......

Going down the road resembling a mosquito fogger from the blue cloud trailing them, changing the oil completely every 500 miles because that's how long it takes them to burn the 5 Qts of ultra cheap nondetergent SAE 30 motor oil (which never causes start up issues on cold days because their engines are so worn there is no friction!).:p

Hmmm... this from a guy (Niedermeyer, not the OP) advocating never changing the oil because you're going to pawn a car off on the used market in a few years. All that's going to do in the long run is wind up costing more oil because the damage will add up.

Don't get me wrong, I think the 3000 mile oil change is a marketing masterpiece that we can't seem to debunk. My vehicle manual - written by the guys who designed the thing - calls for either 7500 mi or 15000 mile intervals, depending on the type of use. I've settled on 10000 based on my driving.

The best advice out there is to follow your vehicle manual's advice. Not some outspoken evangelist with an agenda; either to sell you more oil or to "save the planet".

Once your warranty expires, that's still good advice, but the synthetic market does offer some alternative/extended change intervals, as long as you're doing sampling at regular intervals.

Oh yeah, and 500K mile cars aren't all that common. They're out there, but we hear about them precisely because it's uncommon.

5000 miles with semi synthetic
80% highway mileage
20% very short city driving

I change my oil every 3,000 with platinum synthetic. Every other change I use oil additive. Granted I'm gonna swap the engine or rebuild it and turn it into a Cobra motor after I graduate, but I still hate the idea of anything but the best stuff in my engine.

I don't know about just changing the filter and adding a quart, but I do know that I'm not about to do it. A comparison of 2 ford escorts seems good. First we have my friends Escort which his mom gave him. She changed the oil every 5,000 miles or so, and would add a quart as needed. That car has a buck forty on it, and it gets the same milage as my crown victoria. 15 or so city, 22 freeway.

Then there is the Escort that belongs to a guy I met at school. He changes his oil just like I do. His Escort gets 40 MPG, and it has 214,000 miles on it with no rebuilds ever done.

The manufacturer of my car recommends 7500 miles between oil-changes. The manufacturer of the synthetic oil I use claims theirs can go up to 15000 miles. I split the difference at 10000 miles.

On of my friends in high-school didn't even know you had to change the oil in cars. He went 25000 miles in the first couple years of owning his car. Then we took auto-shop and he realized how long it's been. We drained the oil and it was dark like tar. He ended up getting over 300000 miles out of that 280XZ-turbo. :)

I typically wait till my car starts overheating, then I like to add some oil.

Last time I changed oil: can't remember. :)

My truck always seemed to run better after an oil change. 454 V8. The cost of an oil change if you do it yourself is so low that it just doesn't seem like a big deal to do it more often or not.

my car says to change the oil about every 4500 miles. I try to do that - sometimes a bit sooner, sometimes a bit later. but it's a 2000 with 250,000 miles on it & it doesn't seem like the engine will give up anytime soon.

I typically wait till my car starts overheating, then I like to add some oil.

Last time I changed oil: can't remember. :)

Umm, Jon

You should at least add a quart every time it needs it. If there isn't enough oil, your rings will go bad. If your rings go bad, power will be reduced, and perhaps more importantly the gas milage will go way down. I wouldn't want anything to screw up gas my milage with Bay Area gas prices:eek:

Rofl. No one takes care of shlt around here. Let's just say, of the 3 cars we owned. I've been driving while all of them have had their turn at overheating on me. Of course all of these times the problem was a whole lot worse than lack of oil. I do understand what you're saying, I probably should go outside and check the oil right now.

Last problem I had with the red car we thought was just the air filter, or something simple. 2 of the 6 cylinders weren't firing while driving, and all kinds of crap needed to be replaced. 1000+ dollars later, and the engine still has these random shakes. They ran a diagnostic machine, and it showed up a code or something that only the ford place would know what it meant. Something like that. So that car get's 30-40 less miles per tank than it used too.

Yep, that will happen. Its a lot cheaper to buy spark plugs, wires, oil, air filters, radiator fluid and do any other regular maintainance than buy a new engine or some other major component. The good news is that you could probably get a much nicer condition engine from a junk yard for that car for a couple hundred bucks or less.

My Grandpa used to have an 80's Taurus on which he installed 2 Holley Double Pumper carbs. Rigging something like that might be fun if you wanted to fix it and put some extra pep in its step;)

Before I sold my car I'd change it every 24k miles or 12 months. I used Amsoil and at 12.5k or 6 mos you just change the filter and add oil as needed. It saved me a ton of $$.

Prior to that I'd change it every 3k miles with Mobil 1 Synthetic. It's a preference thing and an "I feel better about it" thing. After my wife sucked water into my engine and blew 3 holes in the block a mechanic took apart the engine and said it was immaculate, almost new looking. So to me, changing the oil as often as I did made a difference to me, imo.

I change the oil on my BMW about every 15k miles, per BMW. I'm on the "all maintenance is free for the first 4 years or 50k miles program" so I just let the dealer mess with it. After that period I'll do the work myself. Plus until recently my wife and I would barely put 10k miles a year on it.

But no matter if you change it at 3k miles, 4.5k miles or whatever, as long as you change it on a regular basis your engine should be fine.

Run synthetic. Your motor will last longer make more power and get better gas mileage. Plus the temperature would have to be cold enough to freeze you on the spot for synthetic to thicken like a conventional oil.

Chuck Norris doesn't change his oil. He just stares it down and all the impurities run away crying to their mommies.

I actually enjoy changing the oil...except for this time of year.

never a problem on my 1999 dodge 4x4 every 6,000 miles still runs strong with 158,000
2006 ford focus 31,000 miles, all fwy driving every 6,000 miles.

I use to change oil religiously every 2,000-3,000 miles don't really see any change in performance or lasting durability when changing the oil @ 6,000 miles

I don't think 3,000 is necessary, but to avoid dealer warranty hassles, I do it anyway. The thing about oil changes that's always overlooked - there's more than 1 reason to change your oil. Just about every article like the one at the start of this thread discusses the lubricating properties of the oil still being 'good enough' for long after 3000 miles.

The other main reason for changing your oil is to get rid of all the dirt and gunk that builds up in it. This is especially if you travel down a lot of dirt/gravel roads or drive through construction sites. That air filter doesn't keep everything out of your engine, and when particles do get in your engine, they end up in your oil, and oil filter. So, you change that stuff out and keep a nice clean running machine.

Keeping the oil for far too long because its still lubricating is like re-using the same bathwater for a month, just because it's still wet.

When I get a car, I will change it every 3k anyway. I am looking into finding a old Ltd, or accord, and it will need all the help it can get. :D

Yep, that will happen. Its a lot cheaper to buy spark plugs, wires, oil, air filters, radiator fluid and do any other regular maintainance than buy a new engine or some other major component. The good news is that you could probably get a much nicer condition engine from a junk yard for that car for a couple hundred bucks or less.

I know, with a little bit of knowledge tons of money can be saved installing things yourself, which also prevents more major problems.


My Grandpa used to have an 80's Taurus on which he installed 2 Holley Double Pumper carbs. Rigging something like that might be fun if you wanted to fix it and put some extra pep in its step;)
I have no idea what you just said. I actually wish I knew more about cars.

we had an 86' cutlass, that needed serious help. I was told I could fix it up if I wanted, but I never got around to it. By the time I got around to wanting to do it, the cooling sysem was completely screwed, and the body had rust forming. It was almost the same color as this one.

http://www.rides-mag.com/picUpload/tracking/pics/20060216231441%20-%201cutlass1.JPG

I always wanted to pimp it out. :(

I don't think 3,000 is necessary, but to avoid dealer warranty hassles, I do it anyway. The thing about oil changes that's always overlooked - there's more than 1 reason to change your oil. Just about every article like the one at the start of this thread discusses the lubricating properties of the oil still being 'good enough' for long after 3000 miles.

The other main reason for changing your oil is to get rid of all the dirt and gunk that builds up in it. This is especially if you travel down a lot of dirt/gravel roads or drive through construction sites. That air filter doesn't keep everything out of your engine, and when particles do get in your engine, they end up in your oil, and oil filter. So, you change that stuff out and keep a nice clean running machine.

Keeping the oil for far too long because its still lubricating is like re-using the same bathwater for a month, just because it's still wet.


I don't think your argument is valid. Measuring the wear and tolerances on the surfaces those studies checked out will show the results of oil with poor lubricating properties AND the results of contaminants in the oil.

I usually go around 5k on my oil, but agree that we change oil too often in the US. Years ago, Consumre reports verified this.

Here (http://www.xs11.com/stories/croil96.htm) is their article.

I don't think your argument is valid. Measuring the wear and tolerances on the surfaces those studies checked out will show the results of oil with poor lubricating properties AND the results of contaminants in the oil.Yeah, you want to quantify exactly how much outside particulate matter and other contaminants is in the oil. Without numbers attached, it's like saying "food is bad for you because it makes you fat". Yes, that's a valid assertion for not eating, but the reality comes down to actual numbers. With each oil-change, I send a sample of the oil to Blackstone Labs (http://www.blackstone-labs.com/) and they'll do an thorough analysis of the oil. They can tell you how much outside dust is coming in and how much the engine is wearing. I can tell you from this report that K&N air-filters, while more free-flowing than paper-filters, DO NOT filter the air as well.

The report can determine how much of the wear is from the rings and how much from the bearings. Even pinpoint the amount of wear in the bearings and when they're getting close to the wear-limit. The progression of wear from report-to-report can tell when the engine's close to needing a rebuild. At which point, I'd pull the engine and swap in one I've previously built up.

You're totally missing my point. If the tests were measuring engine wear as a factor of oil change interval, it doesn't matter if the wear was caused by lack of lubrication or contaminants - it's measuring wear, regardless of the source. Hence, if the test proved that a certain (long) drain interval is OK, it's OK despite which source the wear was coming from.

For $10 every 3 months, I'll keep doing it. I like nice clean oil. Plus it gives me an excuse to work on my car and make sure everything is clean enough to eat off of.

Chuck Norris doesn't change his oil. He just stares it down and all the impurities run away crying to their mommies.

Bahahahahaha! That's the website for the amazing Chuck Norris and those quotes! My cousin was telling me about those! Too funny!!

Jon,

You should take a intro to auto mechanics class at a local community college. For a few hundred bucks you can learn a ton of stuff and do a lot of work on your car.

As for what I was talking about, the carburetor (carb for short) is the big thing on top of older engines that pumps fuel and air into the engine. Your Taurus is newer and has electronic fuel injection (efi) but you could convert it back to the less practical carbureted set up with a couple of high performance carbs and a carburetor intake manifold. When you put a bigger carb or even a couple bigger carbs on there, you get more fuel and air, causing a significant power boost.

Keep in mind I was being a smart ass, and that this would be far from the best way to get more power from your car, which I'm sure you don't much feel like doing anyway.

You're totally missing my point. If the tests were measuring engine wear as a factor of oil change interval, it doesn't matter if the wear was caused by lack of lubrication or contaminants - it's measuring wear, regardless of the source. Hence, if the test proved that a certain (long) drain interval is OK, it's OK despite which source the wear was coming from.Yeah, we're talking about two different things. You're saying it doesn't matter what causes the wear, external contamination or breakdown of the oil's lubrication properties. Which is correct because both will cause wear. I was asserting that those wear-causing issues are irrelevant between a 3000 or 5000 or even a 10000-mile change-interval with synthetic (as jsharr's linked study showed negligible difference between 3000 vs. 6000 for non-synthetic oil even).

And oil-changes for me at 8-qts synthetic plus a $12 filter does add up. Making the costs of the analysis really worth it. :)

BTW - FRAM filters a pure CRAP!!! Regardless if you change your oil at 3000 or 1000-mile intervals, having a FRAM filter is causing accelerated and premature wear in your engine!!! If you can find it, Mobil-1 filters are amongst the best. Check out the Oil Filter Study (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html).

Every 2500-3000kms, and I use Amsoil.

Bahahahahaha! That's the website for the amazing Chuck Norris and those quotes! My cousin was telling me about those! Too funny!!

What website? I made that up on the spot. :D

BTW - FRAM filters are pure CRAP!!! Regardless if you change your oil at 3000 or 1000-mile intervals, having a FRAM filter is causing accelerated and premature wear in your engine!!! If you can find it, Mobil-1 filters are amongst the best. Check out the Oil Filter Study (http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfilterstudy.html).


http://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/shocker.gifhttp://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/cussing2.gifhttp://www.thehighroad.org/images/smilies/banghead.gif


Thanks for the heads up danno. Fram Toughguards are all I ever used. My stupid buddy who works at the autoparts store said they were the best. I think I'll order some Mobil filters from the web if I can't find them at a store. I changed my oil 500 miles ago, but now you have me thinking about draining it so I can swap the filter.

Jon,

You should take a intro to auto mechanics class at a local community college. For a few hundred bucks you can learn a ton of stuff and do a lot of work on your car.

As for what I was talking about, the carburetor (carb for short) is the big thing on top of older engines that pumps fuel and air into the engine. Your Taurus is newer and has electronic fuel injection (efi) but you could convert it back to the less practical carbureted set up with a couple of high performance carbs and a carburetor intake manifold. When you put a bigger carb or even a couple bigger carbs on there, you get more fuel and air, causing a significant power boost.

Keep in mind I was being a smart ass, and that this would be far from the best way to get more power from your car, which I'm sure you don't much feel like doing anyway.
I probably should take an auto mechanics course, but I most likely won't unless I ever decide to fix up a car. I personally really like asian auto makers. Like an acura, or a supra, or a small civic. That would be fun to fix up.

and you're right, I have no intention of getting more power out of my engine, so everything you said went right over my head anyways. I'm in the boat of, if the car runs I'm happy. I don't want to screw with anything unless it has a problem.

Run synthetic. Your motor will last longer make more power and get better gas mileage. Plus the temperature would have to be cold enough to freeze you on the spot for synthetic to thicken like a conventional oil.

The biggest problem with synthetic oil is if you have any oil leaks. Synthetic oil leaks at a much faster rate than petroleum oil.

On the plus side, the synthetics even improve fuel mileage.

Wow to the person who buys the author’s used car. The sludge in his engine must be thick. Evidently, he has never changed a motor in a car that has gone 18,000 miles on the break-in oil. The motor seized because the oil pump sump was clogged with sludge.

I have seen oil plugs removed and no oil drains out because of sludge.

yeah, sludge is a by-product of bad dino oil and poor filtering. Here's a study on an 18000-mile oil-change interval: Mobil 1 Test Results (http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/mobil1.html). Note that objective quantifiable results shows numbers that cannot be disputed. The type of oil used is probably more important than the oil-change interval in terms of engine-wear and durability. And there are other synthetics that are better than Mobile-1 as well.

If it's true, what we need is a mfg to put its warranty behind the logic of the argument. MB was the first mfg that I know of that went to variable oil changes based their method of measuring the turbidity of the oil.

It would be good advertising for them if they offer a car with a mfg warranty to 50K to say, e.g., "we make or engines to such precision tolerances that can change the oil every 100,000 miles. Bring it in for an oil change as often as you want to but our warranty and extended warranty programs do not require this."

:)

If it's true, what we need is a mfg to put its warranty behind the logic of the argument. MB was the first mfg that I know of that went to variable oil changes based their method of measuring the turbidity of the oil.

It would be good advertising for them if they offer a car with a mfg warranty to 50K to say, e.g., "we make or engines to such precision tolerances that can change the oil every 100,000 miles. Bring it in for an oil change as often as you want to but our warranty and extended warranty programs do not require this."

:)
Auto makers want you to bring your car in for service. The service department is their money maker. It would not be in their best financial interest to do as you suggest.

My car is lowered, so I can't slide underneath it to get the drain plug out and put the drain pan under it so I just take my car to the dealer. I get the OEM parts, which are better than many aftermarket ones, and I don't have to get dirty. It's only a few dollars more than what it would be to do it myself too. I never use Pennzoil. I had a few mechanics say that every engine they tore down that ran Pennzoil was full of nasty sludge.

I never change my oil. I just take it out, wash it off, and put it back in.

Well i don't drive my car too much, so by the time i get 3,000 most drivers have 5-6 thousand. So changing it once or twice a year is not a killer for me.

Well i don't drive my car too much, so by the time i get 3,000 most drivers have 5-6 thousand. So changing it once or twice a year is not a killer for me.
Last year, I put 2300 miles on my Van. I change my oil every 6 months to maintain the proper pH and avoid acidic and moisture corrosion inside the engine.

The oil doesn't break down, the additives do. I change every 3000 miles, even though I could go 5000 or so.

Jon,

You should take a intro to auto mechanics class at a local community college. For a few hundred bucks you can learn a ton of stuff and do a lot of work on your car.

As for what I was talking about, the carburetor (carb for short) is the big thing on top of older engines that pumps fuel and air into the engine. Your Taurus is newer and has electronic fuel injection (efi) but you could convert it back to the less practical carbureted set up with a couple of high performance carbs and a carburetor intake manifold. When you put a bigger carb or even a couple bigger carbs on there, you get more fuel and air, causing a significant power boost.

Keep in mind I was being a smart ass, and that this would be far from the best way to get more power from your car, which I'm sure you don't much feel like doing anyway.

Carbuerated fuel pumps run on much lower pressure as well. Often, on a smaller engine a Weber carb yields more power and better gas mileage.

I have had a couple of oil analysis' done to check the condition of whats going on. With Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic and an OEM Honda filter I am able to go 5,000 miles of beating (autocross, tons of 8k RPM runs and sustained high rpm use) or about 6500 miles of normal driving while still having a TBN of about 2.75. Car runs great and doesn't burn a drop and I just hit 104,000 miles.

What website? I made that up on the spot. :D

Found it: http://www.chucknorrisfacts.com/

Funny shiat on there!! :) Maybe you should submit your Chuck Norris quote to this site! lol!

I'm pretty much sold on Wally World's generic synthetic. I mean, it's only a group III "synthetic", but it's also only a few bucks more than the usual stuff, while Mobil 1 is more than twice the price. I suppose if the vehicles I maintained had absolutely no leaks/blow-by, then I'd go with Mobil 1 oil/filters every 10k miles. But as it stands, I swap a Mobil 1 filter every two changes of Wally World synth.


Motor oil falls into the following categories:
Group I - Conventional refined petroleum-based oil.
Group II - Partially Hydrocracked (hydroprocessed or hydroisomerized) petroleum-based oil.
Group III - Fully Hydrocracked (hydroprocessed or hydroisomerized) petroleum-based oil.
Group IV - Polyalphaolefin (PAO) oils which are chemically synthesized man-made compounds.
Group V - Other (non-polyalphaolefin) chemically synthesized man-made synthetic oils.

All "conventional" motor oils on the market are actually a blend of group I & II oils in order to produce products that meet current performance/testing standards and manufacturer requirements.
"Synthetic Blend" motor oils contain a blend of oils from groups I, II, & III.
Most "synthetic" motor oils currently on the market contain oils from groups II & III. SuperTech (amoungst others) falls into this category. Motor oils containing a high percentage of group III oil are allowed to be marketed as "fully synthetic" because of a court ruling (Mobile vs Castrol). Castrol Syntech (amoungst others) falls into this category. Hydrocracked (hydroprocessed or hydroisomerized) refers to the "cracking" or breaking apart of petroleum oil molecules to form completetly new molecules. Oil manufacturers contend that these new molecules (and the motor oil produced using them) should then be considered "synthetic". The court agreed.
Mobile 1 and Amsoil (amoungst others) are 100% group IV synthetic motor oils. Group IV oils can/should be technically superior to hydrocracked petroleum based oils, but not necessarily so (as Castrol contended in court, the court agreed). The court decision was based on evidence presented indicating that the actual PERFORMANCE characteristics of group III oils can be at least as-good-as and perhaps better-than some group IV motor oils. However, one big advantage that I see with the group IV synthetic oils is that they do not contain (or need) any VI improver additives and have a very low ash content, both contribute to sludge formation.
FYI, group III "synthetic" oils are cheaper to produce than group IV synthetic oils.
Pennzoil is now marketing a synthetic motor oil that contains a blend of group III and group V (ester based) oils that they claim has "heat adaptive molecules". Interesting. I wonder if they were able to remove the VI improver in this new formula?
The bottom line is this...Group III oils are not inherently inferior to group IV oils in terms of actual performance (as many people would have you believe). There are valid facts that support both sides of the argument and there continues to be a LOT of debate over this issue (and the court ruling)!
From an economic perspective (compared to using one of the higher priced group IV synthetic motor oils), if you are going to change your own oil and do it at or before the manufacturer's recommended change intervals, the SuperTech synthetic oil looks like an excellent choice. But...given a choice between a group III synthetic oil and a group IV synthetic oil FOR THE SAME PRICE, I would definately choose the group IV synthetic oil. Is the Mobile 1 worth the price difference over the Supertech? Probably not...unless you intend to leave the oil in your vehicle for 8k to 10k miles (or longer).
BTW, I have used (and continue to use) Mobile 1 for over 20 years. I am sold on the product.

If i'm correct, oils are meant to go certain miles before they start to loose velocity. A lot of oils now days have specific mileage estimates written on the bottle. It's recommended to change the oil every 3,000 miles, but you don't have to, it's just better for you engine.

If i'm correct, oils are meant to go certain miles before they start to loose velocity. A lot of oils now days have specific mileage estimates written on the bottle. It's recommended to change the oil every 3,000 miles, but you don't have to, it's just better for you engine.
My oil loses velocity when ever I let off the gas pedal.

My oil loses velocity when ever I let off the gas pedal.
Yea i just reread my post and realized that i posted the wrong thing. I was thinking of something else while posting. What i meant was the additives in the oil that bring lubrication are lost after a while, leaving the oil not lubricating the engine properly.

Blackstone labs. They'll run tests on oil samples, and tell you if they find things that are telltale of engine carnage. Find a quality oil filter (not Mr Coffee a.k.a. FRAM) and a good synthetic. Regularly sneak some oil out and have it tested, change your filter at about 5,000 miles and just add enough oil to top off the dipstick. When the oil's beneficial properties start to fade (Blackstone will tell you how well your oil is doing based on chemical levels and metal deposits), see how many miles you got, and then use that as your oil change interval (or a little earlier).