Bicycle Mechanics - comparison of drive train components?

i'm haveing a touring bike built and i'm wondering what drive train components to go with. anyone have any good links to comparisons? or opinions on what would be best to go with and why?
price isnt a huge concern, more interested in reliability, and i guess ease of geting parts if i have a problem out on the road.
thanks :):beer:

in terms of quality and performance, shimano and campagnolo components are, imo, essenstailly equivalent. i personally prefer campagnolo, since i find the shifting more intuitive [thumbshifters rock, and a non-indexed front derailleur makes it easy to trim the chain] and i find the design much easier to service [feeding shift cables into shimano shifters is an experience!].

in terms of comparative quality, it is generally agreed that the shimano and campy groups line up like this, from low to high end:

sora - xenon
tiagra - mirage
105 - veloce
ultegra - centaur
dura ace - chorus

record is the top of the top of the top.

i find, though, that while ultegra and centaur are pretty bang-on equivalent, 105 has a bit of an edge over veloce in weight, and tiagra has a bit of an edge over mirage.

i think you can do a lot worse than outfit a tourer with campy. that's what i would do...

If you are going to use the bike to tour (in the US) Shimano will be easier to find if you need to replace something.
This is just personal opinion, If you can afford Chorus or higher get it otherwise I would stick with Shimano.

For loaded/expedition touring, you are better off with MTB components, giving lower gearing.
Shimano XT is probably the best groupset you can use. XTR has too many ultra-light Al parts. Bar-end shifters work well with these components.
Campy hubs are nicely made and easy to service, but the driveside bearings of the rear wheel are placed inboard of the freehub. There is a lot of unsupported axle which is vulnerable to bending. Ive never heard of one bending, and Campy asure me that my Mirage hubs can cope with loaded touring, but the Shimano design is better.

If you want some 3rd party components for comparison, I would name drop Phill Woods for bottom brackets and hubs, Specialities-TA for chainsets and rings. Both are well proven and long lasting.

thanks Mateo, Chuck, and Micheal
ok i may be geting too complex for my own knowledge base here. i have a fairly heavy mechanical background, but its not based at all in bicycles.
so here goes.
dura ace - chorus is the top, and i would guess the most expensive.
what makes them better than the next group down? more reliable? better materials? better machining? or is it a situation where the top of the line gives you an edge as far as racing would go, but not really helpful in a touring situation.

next i see in posts referances to different speeds, 9 speed seems to be talked about the most. im guessing by 9 speed they mean 9 gears/sprockets on the free wheel?
so does that mean if you have a 9 speed and 3 sprockets on the crank set you have a 27 speed bike?
is a bike with top of the line components, and fewer gears more reliable then one with more gears? can you even get top of the line components with fewer gears?
do more gears on a touring bike really make it a better touring bike?

i know its a lot of questions and they may also be a bit vague. it just seems as i learn more i have more questions. i'd rather spend more now and get a set up i'll be happy with for years, then spend less and decide i want to upgrade after one season. i think it will be cheaper to get it right at the start.

I don't know specifically about road parts but usually as you move up in quality you get more durable parts AND lighter weight. In mtb terms most people look at it like this

Deore - bottom feeder heavier not particularily durable
LX - Most above average riders use these as they are cheap and lighter than deore but not signifigantly more durable
XT - more durable and lighter than both LX and Deore but usually quite a bit more. Most advance riders use these especially cost consious racers.
XTR - imo very overpriced for what you get (especially the new proprietary crap but I won't get into that) but lighter and generally considered the same durability as XT. These parts also have some proprietary options which allow shimano to charge and arm and leg for them.

I assume this more or less transfers into the road parts listed above.

you are right about the 9 spd. You can still buy 8 spd and sometimes 7 spd parts and that issue is debatable. A lot of old school riders claim 8 and 7 spd shift cleaner and with less jarring and are easier to maintain. I never noticed personally but I don't race so a little misshift here and there can go unoticed by me. The bonus to 9 speed is you have to use your chainring (th 3 cog at the front) less because you have more gears to work with in the middle chainring. This takes some pressure off of the drivetrain.

Your questions weren't vague at all. Cheers ;)

Is your touring going to be an extended camping tour, or weekend lightweight trips ?
The very high-end groups, Dura-Ace and Campy record are ultra-light, and replace steel with Titanium and Aluminium. Al axles are NOT suitable for touring.
The higher-end groups are more finely machined, have smoother bearings, better seals, and better finish. They will last longer and shift more smoothly. The mechanically complex brake/shifter units are of much better quality at the high end, but these are not recomended for extended touring. They work well, till they stop working. A bar-end shifter will have a back-up friction mode, which is vital for making the system work with non-compatatble replacement parts. If you do use integrated shiftersm most people take a long a friction lever as a spare.

Hidden components like the bottom bracket and headset are just as important as hubs, so you need high quality units from the top of the range.

With gearing, the 7/8/9 cogs on the back give you fine tuning. All of them work, but modern quality systems all use 9speeds, so thats what you should go for. With a 3x9 system, you get maybe 14 separate usable gears. These can be set for wide or narrow range, and for high or low ratios. A tourist needs a wide range, which starts low, but does not need the very high racing gears.

Check out some good makers of touring bikes for some component ideas:
http://www.bgcycles.com/bruce.html
Uses XT mtb components on his high-end bikes.

http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/bikeframes.html

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/bicycles.htm
Uses some quality European components in his build-kits.

Originally posted by shaharidan
[B]what makes them better than the next group down? more reliable? better materials? better machining? [B]

You'll find what perhaps is your answer on this page:
http://www.bike.com/template.asp?da...sectionnumber=6

The specific Shimano line comparisons / differences are listed in the lower part of the article. However, you may find the entire article interesting as well. NOTE: The author has a slight Shimano bias so Campy owners be mindful.



Originally posted by shaharidan
[B]do more gears on a touring bike really make it a better touring bike?[B]

Yes. A racing bike and a touring bike may have similar "big gears" (e.g., 115 - 130" gearing in 53 x 11) which is fine for an unloaded bike that's being ridden aggressively or on relatively flat to rolling terrain. However, once you add in the weight of panniers, the unknowns of potentially steep grades in likely touring destinations and a less aggressive riding pace the benefit of having shorter gearing for climbing becomes very important. A triple chain ring provides for those very low gear inch combinations that are not always possible or practical on a two chain ring set-up.

this is a great help guys, thanks.
i think i can head to the bike shop tomorrow and atleast be able to ask the right questions :)

The higher end stuff has better bearings/bushings. The quality is higher and they weigh less.
Nine speed is in reference to the rear. To get higher quality parts you just about have to get nine speed.
If you are touring you want the triple up front to give you the low(30t) for climbing loaded.

Originally posted by shaharidan
this is a great help guys, thanks.
i think i can head to the bike shop tomorrow and atleast be able to ask the right questions :)

Be wary of the high-end grouppo brakesets if you plan on using large diameter touring tires. In other words, while Shimano has introduced a DuraAce Triple Group, the standard DuraAce brake arch is not sized to accommodate mud guards and large diameter touring tires. Therefore, you may be better off specifying that a different brake arch be used from one of their other groups that will give you more clearance. If you were having a custom touring bicycle built you could also specify the Shimano BR-R600 brake be used -- common in Europe but only recently added to the US line-up -- which accommodates very large tires and mud guards. However, the BR-600 requires a slightly different pivot location on the fork and rear brake bridge than what is used for standard brakes..

If you haven't gotten the frame yet , you might even be able to get a frameset that has linear pull(mountian bike) brake mounts on it . Look for rack eyelets on the fork as well.

A cross bike might be a good alternative,
or at the least a cross fork that you could put
Cantilever brakes on.

Just my .02 worth,

Marty

well i paid a visit to my bike shop. they had planned to use the shimano tiagra group. i had it upgraded to the deore xt 9 speed with ultegra levers. at first they kind of made me feel like i was bein a real pain in the neck, but eventually warmed up. maybe i'm reading too much into it but it didnt seem logical to have a custom frame built then put lower end components on it.
my own fault really, but i think they should have gone thru all the components when i ordered the frame. i just got a bit too excited about the hole thing, and should have gotten more info before talking to them. next time all know better :)
thanks again guys.

Shamino is going to be a better choice for touring than Campy because Campy is into road racing and not touring or mtb; Campy can handle light or credit card touring. If your going to do some heavy touring take a gander at this web site: http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/index.html

Originally posted by froze
Shamino is going to be a better choice for touring than Campy because Campy is into road racing and not touring or mtb; Campy can handle light or credit card touring. If your going to do some heavy touring take a gander at this web site: http://www.coinet.com/~beckman/index.html
with all due respect, this makes absolutely no sense at all. both shimano and campagnolo road components are made with a variety of applications in mind, including touring. i have campy 9-speed centaur on my cyclocross bike roight now. i've raced it, i've had it caked in mud, i've repeatedly climbed a 20 per cent hill with a chain covered in grit so thick that i couldn't see the links. and it did a marvellous job. in fact, i originally had shomano 105 on that bike, which i fould to be fragile and flimsy and unsuited to the rigours of the sport.

i've seen a whole lot of touring bikes with campy components, like this one from marinoni:
http://www.marinoni.qc.ca/images/velos/turismo.jpg

the thing you get from mtb components rather than road components is a wider spread of gearing, not necessarily more durability. the biggest cog spread in campy is 14-29, but mtb gearing gets you down to 32.

having said that shaharidan, i think you made a good choice. ultegra/xt is a major step up from tiagra in terms of quality.