Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Riv Reader Request

If anyone has access to a scanner and the issue of The Rivendell Reader that contains a review of the Bianchi San Jose, would you mind terribly scanning it (just the San Jose review, not the whole magazine...) and sending it to me? I understand that they give one the Rivendell treatment, which I'd be interested in seeing.

Thanks!

I may have it at home. Let me check tonight when I get home. I remember reading a San Jose review in one of the issues, but I don't know if I still have it.

If you could post it here, that'd be cool too.

"we have determined that the san jose is a quickbeam at 1/3 the price, but is completely worthless because it won't fit 38 tires, honjo fenders, and a gigantic baggins bag full of camping gear. Plus the shellacked cork tape thing didn't work so well."

Lol

Re: posting it here, I would go easy on the IP theft from rivendell if we can, but the review was very favorable. I think they got big tires and fenders like they like on it, and even put one of their "Let's run drop bars way the deuce up in the sky because that's clearly what they're designed for" mega-long stems on there.

Don't get me wrong, generally I love them and their philosophy, but I get a little tired of their "if you don't ride the way we ride, you're riding wrong" attitude. Sorry man, but some of us want an experience that's different from what you get from a really, really nice 70's bike boom bike.

"we have determined that the san jose is a quickbeam at 1/3 the price, but is completely worthless because it won't fit 38 tires, honjo fenders, and a gigantic baggins bag full of camping gear. Plus the shellacked cork tape thing didn't work so well."
hahahaaha

this is so funny.

Not to turn this totally into a thread about Grant's attitute but...

He is a "retro-grouch" in a lot of ways, but he also has one of the best concepts of what a great normal person bike should be (minus the price tag). He is pretty spot on in a lot of catagories about bikes and where quality parts are most important. Remember that he and Bridgestone USA got squashed not because they were building an inferior product in any way, but just because they did not do a good job at keeping up with main stream bike builders and the new fashion of bikes. That would make a lot of people seem sour...

I generally have a soft spot for iconoclastic visionaries with terrible business sense.

In any case, photocopying/scanning one article within the catalog would clearly qualify as fair use, at least by Cdn standards.

Oh, I also have a soft spot for them in general and Grant/Rivendell in particular, but I also get annoyed with people who claim to be guided by clear and simple ideologies, but then you start looking closely and it's a never-ending series of "excepts." Simplicity is good, except when making singlespeed bikes, in which case we're going to make the most complicated singlespeed in the history of the universe. Synthetic fabrics are bad, except when the wind is whipping through the loosely-knit wool we sell, then you might want to add a shell. Brifters are disgustingly ergonomic, but brake levers with hoods like brifters are awesome. Basically, I think sometimes they end up confusing taste with principle.

"we have determined that the san jose is a quickbeam at 1/3 the price, but is completely worthless because it won't fit 38 tires, honjo fenders, and a gigantic baggins bag full of camping gear. Plus the shellacked cork tape thing didn't work so well."

Are you serious?

I am sympathetic to Rivendell's practical bike fit philosophy and retro-crabbiness, as opposed to the "let's put normal people on race bikes with all the latest tech" M.O. of most of the road bike industry. You just cannot **** with lugs (with non-ornate paint please), full fenders, a brooks and nitto noodles up high on a pearl stem. To repeat what landgolier said, though, like lots of people in the cycling world, Riv just seem to get a touch too far into a mentality of us vs them instead of "live and let live".

I am sympathetic to Rivendell's practical bike fit philosophy and retro-crabbiness, as opposed to the "let's put normal people on race bikes with all the latest tech" M.O. of most of the road bike industry. You just cannot **** with lugs (with non-ornate paint please), full fenders, a brooks and nitto noodles up high on a pearl stem. To repeat what landgolier said, like lots of people in the cycling world, they just seem to get a touch too far into a mentality of us vs them instead of "live and let live".


Theres plenty of old stuff that is more practical then it's replacement. Almost everything you mention(lugs, brooks, pearl stems and nitto noodles) doesn't fit into that category however. The newer is also more practical in every one of those cases. Fenders are great but 99% or cyclists don't ride in the rain and so fenders are pointless for them.

Theres plenty of old stuff that is more practical then it's replacement.

plz say more - what falls into this category in your opinion?

plz say more - what falls into this category in your opinion?

if you are touring bar end shifters for instance.

Well dutret, I guess my point had a lot to do with aesthetics but i do also find that setup highly practical and comfortable for my fixed commuting and LD riding. A pop top threadless stem is probably more functional than a quill (though much uglier), and you do have to cover a brooks in the rain; but other than that what points concerning relative practicality did you have in mind?

-Brooks despite what people say will put more pressure on vital regions then something with a cutout.
-Noodles are harder on nerves then modern ergo drops.
-lugs offer no practicality at all.
so with the exception of fenders your post was entirely based on aesthetics

dutret is gaining my favor every day...
2006 was a wake-up year for me. Hooray for threadless 1 1/8!


the only thing that is just as good today as was when it surfaced is 80s hardcore (DC/Chicago-wise)

Dutret I don't doubt that there is some weakened version of your claims that is correct. However there's lots of anecdotal counterevidence to them as is---for example, the cutout saddle and ergo bars that were on my tourer when I bought it caused numb pinkies and dong bone on rides over 75 km, and the noodles and b-17 that are now on that bike do neither. Anyhow, my first post was primarily about the practical riding position that Riv style setups afford. Of course Rivendell style retro tech may not be the best possible way to achieve that goal; but it does it pretty darn well relative to everything else on the market, and it's pretty to boot.

plz say more - what falls into this category in your opinion?

If I can jump in here, indexed front derailleurs are a PITA to set up and once you do, you're limited to one or two "trim" positions. On the other hand, friction shifters are infinitely trimmable.

Just bumping this in case someone actually has the Riv Reader in question and can hook me up.

not the "full rivendell treatment," but it looks like harris was selling san joses with 8 speed internal hubs. i'd really like to do something similar for touring...
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/bianchi-sanjos8/index.html

Just bumping this in case someone actually has the Riv Reader in question and can hook me up.

I heard about that report also. I would love to read it also. If you get it please let me know.

Now that I think about it, mcatano. I could've sworn that I read that somewhere on BF. A better place to ask might be the commuter forum.

-Brooks despite what people say will put more pressure on vital regions then something with a cutout.
-Noodles are harder on nerves then modern ergo drops.
-lugs offer no practicality at all.
so with the exception of fenders your post was entirely based on aesthetics


I'm sure we could find legions of riders who find Brooks to be one of the few saddles that does not cause numbness, and plenty of folks who find Ergo-bend bars to be anything but. Look closely at at least half the bikes in pro peloton, you will see traditional bend bars.

Lugs are for ascetics, not argument there.

Maybe more people would ride in the rain if they had practical bikes that could fit real fenders.

Just bumping this in case someone actually has the Riv Reader in question and can hook me up.Any idea what issue it was in? I have most of the recent ones, but no time to look through them all.

"Let's run drop bars way the deuce up in the sky because that's clearly what they're designed for"

That's my favourite thing I read today. I don't actually quite buy into the cynicism - drop bars offer you a higher position, and a lower one, no matter where those positions are in relation to the seat, but nevertheless, that made me smile.

Just bumping this in case someone actually has the Riv Reader in question and can hook me up.
I've got it. PM me your address and I'll send you a copy.

I generally have a soft spot for iconoclastic visionaries with terrible business sense.

I'm not sure I would call it "terrible," since he has a fairly well-defined niche market, that seems to be getting bigger, that will gladly spend money on Brooks saddles and lumps of beeswax. If I remember correctly, fixies used to be a relatively "fringe" concept as well...

I was googling this yesterday and I remember it being issue 37, but I could be off on that one. Also, a great way to spend $55 would be the $25 rivendell membership, which gets you the reader for a year, $10 off your first order, and the member (basically normal, but pretty good) parts prices, plus the 4 CDR's of the old readers @$10 each. However, at least according to the site, you only get up to issue 35 or something, so you would miss out on the article in question. But anyway, that's going to be my birthday present to myself this year.

As for running drops up high, yeah, it does kind of work, but the riv guys act like that's the point of drops. Nevermind that drops were invented to get you low. I mean, flop and chops make great bullhorns, but you nobody's claiming that's the point of drops. I also love how they hate flat bars with extensions because they only give you two positions, but then they sell the albatross, which is a two position bar if there ever was one.

I'm sure we could find legions of riders who find Brooks to be one of the few saddles that does not cause numbness, and plenty of folks who find Ergo-bend bars to be anything but. Look closely at at least half the bikes in pro peloton, you will see traditional bend bars.

Yes and we can also find legions of people who will say track drops are a good ergonomic option for long rides.

A classic drop bar bar places your hand on a curve which focuses pressure on the edges of it. Anatomic drops(or shims) flatten or reverse the curve to spread pressure over the entire hand. The drop part simply is more ergonomic as is top which usually stays more horizontal before the brakes.(no mounting the brakes at a crazy angle that is hard to reach from drops.)

The whole point of a brooks is that it molds to you. That means it is spreading pressure out instead of focusing it on hard regions suited to deal with it. This is the exact opposite of a cutout saddle which seeks to complete remove pressure from sensitive areas and focus it on those better suited to supporting it. since it doesn't mold you may have to try a few different saddles till you find one that fits but the vast majority of riders who want a moderately aggressive position will be better suited by a modern saddle then a brooks.

As for running drops up high, yeah, it does kind of work, but the riv guys act like that's the point of drops. Nevermind that drops were invented to get you low.

No, I get what you mean - they are kind of evangelical. Anyway, my point was really that your post gave me a big grin, and I like that!

To keep it a little on-topic, Harris/Sheldon was selling San Joses redone with 8 speed internal hubs for a while. Interesting concept, also interesting was the choice of Sun CR18 rims, which apparently are pretty good eyeletted road/touring rims. Surprising, because you can get them on 36h formulas for $145 shipped from the my favorite wheel guys, bicyclewheels.com. Seems like a really good option for a kind of heavy but f*ck-all burly street wheelset, like a deep V but not blingy and not as likely to get you killed in a crosswind.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/bianchi-sanjos8/index.html
http://shop.greatdealsonbikes.com/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=GDOB&Product_Code=TR06&Category_Code=TR

Also, I really don't think too many pros are riding traditional bend drop bars, but maybe I never looked.

o i was reading this tthread without even realizing i read that article
i'll see if i can scan it and put it up

in the meantime, they do a quick point comparison of the qb & sj:
-japan lugged v. taiwan tigged
-quill v. threadless
-multi speed v. single speed
-$875 price difference

Grant's conclusion:
"If you can get over the hurdle that the frame isn't lugged, then this is the best value, the most bike for the dollar in the world"

']dutret is gaining my favor every day...
2006 was a wake-up year for me. Hooray for threadless 1 1/8!


the only thing that is just as good today as was when it surfaced is 80s hardcore (DC/Chicago-wise)


Articles of Faith!

-multi speed v. single speed


If they were comparing it to geared bike why look at the san jose instead of the volpe or castro valley?

If they were comparing it to geared bike why look at the san jose instead of the volpe or castro valley?
It's multi-speed Vs. single because the quickbeam has two chainrings and two freewheels. They way they are sized, the smaller chainring goes with the bigger cog so you can functionally flip-flop with no brake pad adjustments. The San Jose is just a straight up SS.

here you go

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/169/367195433_928186e78e_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/180/367195438_924f8a4174_o.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/145/367195440_5e987def86_o.jpg

Sky Yaeger is UG-LY!!! Dag, with a name like that I had always figured her for a hottie.

"I am baffled by urban hipsters riding fixed gear track bikes as fashion accessories and finding out they are not as practical or safe as they thought."

Me too, Sky. Me too.

Thanks very much!

Hey that san jose looks good! (note: my conversion looks a heck of a lot like that, down to noodles, esge fenders and gummy scr-5's) The tweed mudflaps may be a bit Rivendell'd out though. I will have to put the SJ on the shortlist if I ever want a fixed tourer. It even has mid fork rack eyelets out front.

I have mixed feelings about Rivendell bikes, but a lot of respect for Grant Petersen -- how many other bike company owners would review, let alone recommend, some other company's bike?

I test rode a San Jose a few weeks ago. They are fun, solid bikes. The only things I didn't like were the pedals, seat, bar tape and brake levers.

Re: lugs, my understanding is that they don't just look pretty, they also have two big practical advantages: they strengthen the joints and make tube repairs easier.

On the other hand, I wonder if Rivendell would ever consider making a non-lugged budget bike similar to the SJ. A lot of people dig Rivendell's design philosphy but could never afford a $1400 bike.

Re: lugs, my understanding is that they don't just look pretty, they also have two big practical advantages: they strengthen the joints and make tube repairs easier.

On the other hand, I wonder if Rivendell would ever consider making a non-lugged budget bike similar to the SJ. A lot of people dig Rivendell's design philosphy but could never afford a $1400 bike.

sweet lugs mean the builder spent time and effort. This alone doesn't make a better bike, but I'd bank on a nice lugged bike from any reputable builder over a factory job.

Thanks Coelcanth! :)

A lot of people dig Rivendell's design philosphy but could never afford a $1400 bike.

Thats why the made the Bleriot, still not $600 complete, but $750 frame/fork/headset isn't unaffordable.

On the Riv note though, WTF happened to their website?? It used to be classy, now it's trash....

Thats why the made the Bleriot, still not $600 complete, but $750 frame/fork/headset isn't unaffordable.

On the Riv note though, WTF happened to their website?? It used to be classy, now it's trash....

Ditto -- my guess is that they switched to a content management system/e-commerce package that hasn't had it's templates tweaked by a designer/developer so they're left with an "out of the box" look. Boo. Hiss.

I guess I was a day too late.....sorry. I scanned it this morning before logging in. I got a pdf of it if anyone wants it to print out. Hit me with a pm and email address.

I wouldn't necessarily buy this anyway because I have a conversion that's mostly the same thing, but a single-sided rear wheel is an absolute deal-killer, especially on a bike that you might want to take offroad occasionally.

Also, If Grant liked this he should love the Raleigh One-Way, it has a crowned fork. Less BB drop, but it's meant to be ridden fixed. Sloping top tube, but they can deal.

Also, anyone from bianchi talking about hipsters on track bikes = laugh riot. That's like someone from apple dissing iPods as a fashion accessory.

Less BB drop, but it's meant to be ridden fixed. Sloping top tube, but they can deal.

The whole BB drop complaint made me lose a lot of respect for them. If anyone curmudgeony luddites should realize that stand over height(within reason) is a meaningless measurement on a road or cross bike. Giving it an extra cm of drop serves no purpose but to make it worse if the owner decided to put a fixed cog on it.

The only legitimate complaint I see is the lack of a flipflop which is even more absurd since bianchi already has a branded flip flop from the pista they could have slapped on possibly even with a cost savings since they wouldn't have to get a completely new hub.