Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - How do you ride and dial-in a roadie?

I know, this seems dumb. I know the following:

1) There are a few different positions - top, hood, drops, and then maybe the bottom edge of the drops.
2) Bike has to be dialed in so you can support your weight with your core and not with your hands comfortably for long periods of time.
3) Typically the lower you are the better aerodynamics you achieve and the more power you can command from your legs.

Now, when your hands are in the drops (below the hoods and able to grab the brakes) what angle are they supposed to be at? It seems if I bend my elbows I put a lot of pressure on the top of my hand (in between my thumb and forefinger). If I tilt the handlebars up it's much more comfortable but I don't think it's correct.

I just replaced the cables, new Tekmomic stem and Nitti al handlebars (46 cm). I'm playing with the stem height and while I like being in the drops my body wants them the same height as my mtb handlebars (so the top would be about 5 inches above). I'm thinking this isn't right. My core is actually pretty strong but there's a tipping point that I can't keep myself up for more than a few minutes because of physics and gravity.

I keep reading different things in the road forum so I figure I'll ask the guys who've got a little more weight on top :D I know you're supposed to change positions every mile or so but is there a place that's meant for the majority of riding? I keep reading over there it's the drops - which would make me feel safer considering the amount of short stops I make in traffic (wouldn't want my hands to fall off the hoods!). But without tilting the handlbars up at a 45 degree angle my hands really hurt.

Also, I'll be using platforms for a while and will probably not be switching to clipless anytime soon if that makes a difference. There's been a few times I needed to kick off a car in traffic and don't feel safe having my feet clipped in - not in the city anyway. I know plenty of people do it but not now for me at least. You can post a picture of a yellow chicken and I won't care! :D

Since this is worthless without pics, here they are! Yes, I know I haven't trimmed the excess cable yet, want to make sure everything is the right length in case I play with it some more and not make a mistake (ya know, measure twice cut once).

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/125/366001554_78d9d52ba5.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/104/366001344_cdb09fbd7a.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/185/366001096_b0e0a0134b.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/123/366000871_969cf5cf18.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/366000646_dfe03dcbdf.jpg http://farm1.static.flickr.com/139/366000388_0fa471bfe6.jpg
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/110/366000155_e826490e4b.jpg

For Tom - I kept the stem shifters on but added top mounts under the aerobrakes so I can shift while in the hoods or underneath. Can we call this PostModern :D I know, no tape yet. I have black I'll put on when it's dialed in though I do like the silver look too.

[edit - original post on fixing it up here (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=253192)]

Now, when your hands are in the drops (below the hoods and able to grab the brakes) what angle are they supposed to be at? It seems if I bend my elbows I put a lot of pressure on the top of my hand (in between my thumb and forefinger). If I tilt the handlebars up it's much more comfortable but I don't think it's correct.
I would say the angle for your hands in the drops should be so that your wrists are not bent up or down. Pretty much when you grip the bar you want your wrists straight.

Looking at your photos, I would say you have your bars angled up too much ... the bottom of the drops should typically be parallel to the ground and/or top tube, if anything, pointing down a little.

You have a little room in how you position your brake lever, where you place it on the curve of the bar, although there is a certain measurement where they are suppose to be. I have mine a little high. The reason for that is my stem is too short. A 120mm stem came on my bike; I swapped out to a 100mm w/17 degree rise, and it is STILL to short. I had a bike fitting last Friday and was told that a 90mm stem should do me fine. The problem for me is that I am STILL reaching too far when resting on my hoods, so I place too much weight on my hands. If a person is not comfortable on their hoods it is probably because they have too long a stem and are reaching and thus putting too much weight on the hands.

Also, my 2 cents is that the drops are made for racers and skinny people (typically one and the same). To bend over that long for a period of time in the drops is uncomfortable for me, a smaller clyde (208/6-1). I think a larger clyde would have more of a belly than me and would find the drops even more uncomfortable. I do 95%+ of my riding on the hoods/tops.

I would say the angle for your hands in the drops should be so that your wrists are not bent up or down. Pretty much when you grip the bar you want your wrists straight.

Looking at your photos, I would say you have your bars angled up too much ... the bottom of the drops should typically be parallel to the ground and/or top tube, if anything, pointing down a little.



I would agree that the drops on the bars are pointing in the wrong direction. To use them, you are going to have to bend your wrist in an rather unnatural position. Personally, since I - like yeamac - spend most of my time on the hoods, I like having the top of the bar parallel with the ground. When I use the drops, I'm using them on a fast downhill to pick up speed. Look at these bikes

On this one, the bars are a little too high but I changed them before our blizzard - 5 long weeks ago - and haven't been able to check them yet:o

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/cyccommute/IMG_0181.jpg

This one is closer but I'm still doing some adjustments on it too. The camera angle is a little funny too.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r181/cyccommute/IMG_0169.jpg

But the thrust of the pictures is that the lower part of the bar is at a more natural angle for your wrists. And, with the tops parallel to the ground, you won't feel like you are falling on your nose while riding the hoods. It will aslo take some pressure of the dangly bits:)

Hmm - I guess I was putting them up to make my wrists straight to grab the brakes from underneath. What if I moved the brakes to the bottom part of the bar - that would be comfortable though I'd lose the ability to stop while on the hoods.

For really hard stops I like my hand getting caught by the bar. A few times on my mtb I had to stop fast and I felt a ton of pressure from the bar against my hand because of the change in momentum. I don't know if the hoods would have stopped me.

[nice rides by the way!]

Hmm - I guess I was putting them up to make my wrists straight to grab the brakes from underneath. What if I moved the brakes to the bottom part of the bar - that would be comfortable though I'd lose the ability to stop while on the hoods.

For really hard stops I like my hand getting caught by the bar. A few times on my mtb I had to stop fast and I felt a ton of pressure from the bar against my hand because of the change in momentum. I don't know if the hoods would have stopped me.

[nice rides by the way!]

I find, even in hard stops, that I can brake from the hoods better than from the drops. I hook my thumb over the top of the hood and then use the outer three fingers on both hands on the levers. Even pulling a touring bike down from 40 or 50 mph with a load, I brake this way. By braking from up high, I can shift my weight rearward like on a mountain bike and I stop very quickly.

If you move the brake levers to the lower part of the drops (if I'm reading correctly), you'll change your center of gravity too much and be in greater danger of going over the bar in a panic stop. I'd think you'd have a little of that problem with your current set up.

Hmm - I guess I was putting them up to make my wrists straight to grab the brakes from underneath. What if I moved the brakes to the bottom part of the bar - that would be comfortable though I'd lose the ability to stop while on the hoods.

For really hard stops I like my hand getting caught by the bar. A few times on my mtb I had to stop fast and I felt a ton of pressure from the bar against my hand because of the change in momentum. I don't know if the hoods would have stopped me.

[nice rides by the way!]
I agree, your handlebars are canted wrong. The drops should definitely be either parallel or very slightly canted the other way. Leave the hoods a bit high, that way they also act a bit like the bar ends on flat bars. You'll find you tide the hoods more often anyway. The drops are for power, speed or riding a headwind primarily.

nice to see the bike is just about there Air!! still thining about paintin it?

PS. i keep my handlebars just about parallel to the frame.. the bottom of the brake levers should line up with the bottom of the drops.. its hard to explain but that is so the hood positioning is optimal for resting on the hood and also being able to reach the brake levers while on the drops too

Point the ends of the handlebar at your rear brake as a starting point. I know I prefer a level top, since that's where I spend 98% of my time. I'm almost never in the drops...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/103/297893887_d9e9679404.jpg

And take a ride for a few (>10) miles between changes; as you get closer to dialing it in, do more and more miles between changes. When I got fitted a couple summers ago, I was told 50mi between tweaks...

Point the ends of the handlebar at your rear brake as a starting point. I know I prefer a level top, since that's where I spend 98% of my time. I'm almost never in the drops...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/103/297893887_d9e9679404.jpg

And take a ride for a few (>10) miles between changes; as you get closer to dialing it in, do more and more miles between changes. When I got fitted a couple summers ago, I was told 50mi between tweaks...

OK - what handlebars do you have? I think I need those because it forms a nice angle with your hand while in the drops. This is my biggest problem (I think my hand is too big to fit nicely in there; plus the bend makes it very uncomfortable) and that may very well help it.

I really enjoy the handling of the bike while I'm in the drops, I feel much more in control of where I'm going and a bit more brazen. But it's the top of my hand that kills (and I tried rotating them - hurts 10x worse). Grr...

Those are ergo anatomically bended bars!Something like that:D...It's nice to be able to ride the drops, but I think that comes with flexibility and practice. Like the other poster mentioned, you only use them for sprints and hard efforts. Not as often as maintining speed which is usually riding ON THE HOODs. You should concentrate on setting up the hoods first. Then practice riding the drops as you apply more saddle time. Same concept as aerobars. You can't install them then expect to ride 20 miles in them. Takes practice while developing some flexibilty.

One thing you might pay attention to is Bar width. I have a roadie with wide bars and one with not as wide. The wide bars make it easier to stay in the drops as I am a broad shoulder clyde myself.

Yeah - we ordered the widest he could (46 - my shoulders are wider but not enough that he was worried). I'm really flexible especially in my hips (I can easily throw my feet over my head) but it's the angle of the curve that really hurts my hand. The lower part closest to me is fine - but it's that damn curve that hurts like hell.

OK - I'll try clipping the cables and giving it a good ride tomorrow, see how it feels. So far I just sat on it and leaned against the wall and was experiencing pain, figured I should fix that before even trying to ride.

Also, I look at your seat and it is tilted a bit downward. Maybe putting pressure onto your wrists. tilt back a bit but not too much or you will stretch your lower back muscles.

OK - what handlebars do you have? I think I need those because it forms a nice angle with your hand while in the drops. This is my biggest problem (I think my hand is too big to fit nicely in there; plus the bend makes it very uncomfortable) and that may very well help it.

When I got fitted, the guy asked me to put my hands in the drops, then coaxed me into grabbing the bars near the ends, instead of in the curves. It's a little unnerving (and that was on a trainer), but more comfy than in the curve of the bar.

And those bars above are FSA Wing Pros -- I dig them LOTS.

I have never seen an expert recomend riding on the ends of the drops. You often see short women holding this part of the bar on a bike that fits badly. You are far from the brakes and have less control.
The default position for drop bars should be the hoods. If you place this in your comfortable cruising position you will have a lower option for headwibnds and descents and a higher option for eating/drinking and looking around.
Most non-athletic touring style riders position the drops between 0 and 3" below the saddle but there is no rule about this.

This (www.peterwhitecycles.com/fitting.htm)is one of the best online fit giudes.

I end up usually riding on the hoods, or with my palms on the curved end of the top of the bar. Going downhill or into furious wind I'll put myself in the drops for a while to cut down on drag. I typically climb with my hands on the tops as if it were a narrow flat bar bike.

You can probably get those cyclocross style interruptor braks which would give you a spare set of brake levers on the tops of the bar... if you don't like using the brakes from the hoods it could be a godsend.

+1 on the angle of the bar being tipped too far away from you, btw.

I know, this seems dumb. I know the following:

1) There are a few different positions - top, hood, drops, and then maybe the bottom edge of the drops.
2) Bike has to be dialed in so you can support your weight with your core and not with your hands comfortably for long periods of time.
3) Typically the lower you are the better aerodynamics you achieve and the more power you can command from your legs.

Now, when your hands are in the drops (below the hoods and able to grab the brakes) what angle are they supposed to be at? It seems if I bend my elbows I put a lot of pressure on the top of my hand (in between my thumb and forefinger). If I tilt the handlebars up it's much more comfortable but I don't think it's correct.

I just replaced the cables, new Tekmomic stem and Nitti al handlebars (46 cm). I'm playing with the stem height and while I like being in the drops my body wants them the same height as my mtb handlebars (so the top would be about 5 inches above). I'm thinking this isn't right. My core is actually pretty strong but there's a tipping point that I can't keep myself up for more than a few minutes because of physics and gravity.

I keep reading different things in the road forum so I figure I'll ask the guys who've got a little more weight on top :D I know you're supposed to change positions every mile or so but is there a place that's meant for the majority of riding? I keep reading over there it's the drops - which would make me feel safer considering the amount of short stops I make in traffic (wouldn't want my hands to fall off the hoods!). But without tilting the handlbars up at a 45 degree angle my hands really hurt.

Well, first off, a 46cm bar is pretty damn wide. Unless your name is Andre and you're a giant, you'd probably do better with a 44 or 42.. I'm riding a 42 right now and had a 44 on my tcr. It also looks like the bars are tilted too far down.

Positioning varies depending on the ride, and time into the ride. I alternate between the tops of the bars by the stem, the outsides of the top of the bars (by the bend), and on top of the hoods. When on the hoods I literally have my hands right on top of them. I rarely get into the drops; going into the drops actually constricts your breathing, and while you'll gain 1-2mph out of it, your HR will go up just by being in that position with no extra effort on your part. When climbing, my hands are usually on the bends (top, not drops).

I try to keep my elbows slightly bent rather than fully extended, but only slightly bent. This allows me to use my elbows as shocks.

I also get a weird pinched nerve in my left ring finger if I wear my wedding band, the result is numbness in my ring finger on any ride over an hour. To resolve this, I have gotten spousal approval to put my wedding band on a chain around my neck when I go riding..

I also have my brifters set a bit higher than you do. Mine are almost at the top of the bend for the drops, and I find that makes a very comfortable setting/ride combination and that I can go all day long with it and still use them when in the drops. This is the only picture of my litespeed that I have, but it should give you an idea. Notice the brifters are a little higher up than the bike next to me.

http://www.astro.ufl.edu/~ken/hfh100-2006.jpg

As for how do I ride it? I ride it like I stole it, of course! :)

BTW, on my giant I never got a proper "bike fit" and just eyeballed it. On my litespeed I had the shop I bought it from give me a full bike fitting and I'll admit it was worth the effort. If you've got a shop nearby that can do a fit and will charge less than $100, then I'd say it's probably a good investment.

Ken

And you can stop short from the hoods? On a ride in traffic I can easily make about 5-7 short panic stops (damn cabs). I look at that little rubber bump and wonder how much that'll stop my 260 pounds before my hands slide off the top...

I also see the trade off from the higher brifters not being able to reach them as easily from the drops but more of a stop from on top.

I did the online fit, came out to 46 cm. One of the mechanics measured my shoulders and said 48 or 50. I just measured my shoulder width again and it came out to 50. I do have a pretty big frame - though not Andre sized!

[I appreciate all the pics - it's helping!]

Another dumb question for y'll. On my mtb I've gotten it so I can ride and apply no pressure with my hands to the handlebars. Since wrist pain was a major stumbling block this was a great breakthrough :D

It looks like that picture above with that whole pack that everyone has quite a bit of tension in their arms against the handlebars. Could you hold that position and take your hands off the handlebars or would you have to shift your position? In other words, how much force is your hands/wrists exerting against the handlebars?

And you can stop short from the hoods? On a ride in traffic I can easily make about 5-7 short panic stops (damn cabs). I look at that little rubber bump and wonder how much that'll stop my 260 pounds before my hands slide off the top...

I can stop with no problems. Remember, the majority of your weight is supported by the core (and hips), not the hands on top of the brifters.


I also see the trade off from the higher brifters not being able to reach them as easily from the drops but more of a stop from on top.

Naw, I can access them fine from the bend in the drops. If my hands were on the bar ends then we'd be having a different discussion, but if they were on the bar ends you'd be asking for all sorts of trouble.


I did the online fit, came out to 46 cm. One of the mechanics measured my shoulders and said 48 or 50. I just measured my shoulder width again and it came out to 50. I do have a pretty big frame - though not Andre sized!

[I appreciate all the pics - it's helping!]

Wow!

In response to your last post, my hands help with balance/stability. When I ride no hands (oh no, he's going to die!!!!) I have to sit upright. The bent forward position is comfortable with grabbing bottles, gels, etc. as long as one hand is on the bars.

I can stop with no problems. Remember, the majority of your weight is supported by the core (and hips), not the hands on top of the brifters.

Well, sure. [Rereading this next part keep in mind I was a math major...this is how my brain is wired]. The seat is a triangle with the smallest part forward. So the only lateral force that would stop your momentum is your hands and the friction between your butt and seat. I'm not talking normal stopping but going from 18 mph to 0 in 3 car lengths. When I do it on my other two bikes I feel a ton of force against my hands even shifting my weight back.


Naw, I can access them fine from the bend in the drops. If my hands were on the bar ends then we'd be having a different discussion, but if they were on the bar ends you'd be asking for all sorts of trouble.

[Are you on the right or left?]The guy in the front closest to the camera seems to have less options when it would come to grabbing the handle - a pointer finger on each without twisting his wrist.


Wow!

In response to your last post, my hands help with balance/stability. When I ride no hands (oh no, he's going to die!!!!) I have to sit upright. The bent forward position is comfortable with grabbing bottles, gels, etc. as long as one hand is on the bars.

So there's no downward pressure on the bars? Seems that if there was no pressure downwards you could ride without hands in the same position.

Sorry to be so micro in looking at this - all your comments help! Thanks!!

Air, take the bike for a spin and bring allen keys w/ you to make adjustments as you ride. You'll be able to dial in the position fairly quickly. You can also adjust the saddle this way til you find the right combo of saddle position and tilt and handlebar height and tilt.

Well, sure. [Rereading this next part keep in mind I was a math major...this is how my brain is wired]. The seat is a triangle with the smallest part forward. So the only lateral force that would stop your momentum is your hands and the friction between your butt and seat. I'm not talking normal stopping but going from 18 mph to 0 in 3 car lengths. When I do it on my other two bikes I feel a ton of force against my hands even shifting my weight back.



You should feel some forward shift in momentum as you stop...it's just physics. However you may want to look at the way you are stopping too. I stop my road bikes the same way I stop my mountain bike...I stand and push back- way back - over the rear of the bike. My arms are generally straight and my feet parallel to the ground (and slightly crouched over the saddle). It's such second nature that I even brake this way on a tandem where you don't need to (and your ride partner doesn't necessarily like it :o ).

With the bars set up like you have in the original pictures, you are going to transfer momentum to the front and decrease the ability to stop. You've lowered your center of gravity but unfortuneately moved it forward too. This is probably bad. Sitting a little higher during a stop but being able to move your center of gravity rearward will help in panic stops.

Well, sure. [Rereading this next part keep in mind I was a math major...this is how my brain is wired]. The seat is a triangle with the smallest part forward. So the only lateral force that would stop your momentum is your hands and the friction between your butt and seat. I'm not talking normal stopping but going from 18 mph to 0 in 3 car lengths. When I do it on my other two bikes I feel a ton of force against my hands even shifting my weight back.

If dialed in right, it is not a problem.



[Are you on the right or left?]The guy in the front closest to the camera seems to have less options when it would come to grabbing the handle - a pointer finger on each without twisting his wrist.

I'm the guy closest to the camera (with the bandana). I have plenty of options - hands on hoods, hands in drops, hands on top of bar by stem, hands on outside bend of top of bars. How many more options do you need? :)


So there's no downward pressure on the bars? Seems that if there was no pressure downwards you could ride without hands in the same position.

Sure there's some pressure, but it's not my body weight. It's just a little bit of pressure, but not enough to be uncomfortable. Even with doing 120 crunches every morning I couldn't maintain supporting my upper body with my core at a 60 degree angle for 5 hours at a time. Most of my weight is supported on my butt.


Sorry to be so micro in looking at this - all your comments help! Thanks!!

I've met engineers that think like you. :)

I'm the guy closest to the camera (with the bandana). I have plenty of options - hands on hoods, hands in drops, hands on top of bar by stem, hands on outside bend of top of bars. How many more options do you need?

Haha - I meant options while grabbing the brakes. With the hoods up more (I adjusted them since those pictures) I can just, just barely grab the brakes with my pointy finger when in the drops.

Took her out for a spin (6 miles to the lbs and back). First bump I hit my hands flew right off the hoods, just barely grabbed the bars to avoid the wipe out. This did not instill the aura of confidence (especially since this was in traffic)! Also couldn't really get enough leverage to stop in the distance I needed it to from the hoods (even with my thumbs wrapped around). The bike in general feels 'jumpy' though - maybe the larger yet thinner wheels to what I'm used to?

I talked to him about getting those ergo bars but he checked and can't get them that will fit the stem. He did recommend though getting a few pieces of PVC pipe, cutting them and creating that angle. Then tape the heck out of it. Not a bad idea - next project. Probably would be a little shock absorbing by design as well. Needed to go to Home Depot to get a new drill anyway.


I've met engineers that think like you.

Yeah, I pitied my teachers.... ;)

Haha - I meant options while grabbing the brakes. With the hoods up more (I adjusted them since those pictures) I can just, just barely grab the brakes with my pointy finger when in the drops.

Took her out for a spin (6 miles to the lbs and back). First bump I hit my hands flew right off the hoods, just barely grabbed the bars to avoid the wipe out. This did not instill the aura of confidence (especially since this was in traffic)! Also couldn't really get enough leverage to stop in the distance I needed it to from the hoods (even with my thumbs wrapped around). The bike in general feels 'jumpy' though - maybe the larger yet thinner wheels to what I'm used to?

I talked to him about getting those ergo bars but he checked and can't get them that will fit the stem. He did recommend though getting a few pieces of PVC pipe, cutting them and creating that angle. Then tape the heck out of it. Not a bad idea - next project. Probably would be a little shock absorbing by design as well. Needed to go to Home Depot to get a new drill anyway.



Yeah, I pitied my teachers.... ;)
Wait til you do a front wheel wheelstand in an emergency braking......avoiding that is one of the reasons you shift the weight back when braking a road bike:eek: ;)

Yeah...never was able to squeeze the brakes hard enough to get that to happen. Definately not going to happen from the hoods with the current setup ;)

I should say that I do tend to put my weight back the harder I have to brake - though I like having a good surface to hold onto.

Air, you are correct that when you move the brifters up to get a more comfortable position on top that it makes it hard to reach when you are in the drops. Its a give and take. You can look for new bars that might give you the best of both worlds but its hard to find any information on what works for you because everything is so specific.

Also as far as braking. On the brifters you do have less stopping power then in the drops because you dont have as much leverage on the levers. It has never been a problem for me but if you would like them to be much stronger then run the brakes a little looser and get kool stop pads.

Also if you can lets see some new pics of what you have now. This is a good picture to see what your setup should look like.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4275/r3yq6.jpg

Brake levers perpendicular to the floor. Fairly flat transition to the brifters. Very bottom of the bars almost parralel to the floor or toptube ect

*crrrreeeeakkk*

So here's my current setup:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/475034878_b6ca8ab8c3.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/187/475034878_1eed278646_o.jpg) http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/475034718_174f43ddaf.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/223/475034718_a31a4cebb2_o.jpg)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/475042971_5e5579880f.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/188/475042971_7091fa22f5_o.jpg) http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/475035088_2d2d52961d.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/197/475035088_13dc23a16e_o.jpg)

After a few quick trips this winter I took it on a 30 mile loop on Wednesday. My wrists were really hurting when I got back. I used PVC pipe to change the angle which has helped but they're not high enough for me to hold myself up. The angle feels better...just still hunched over them where too much of my weight is on the drops.

I found this thread (http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=277271) talking about switching handlebars. It's not a bad idea though I'd hate to just toss those handlebars since they were $40. I do like the feeling of my hands being vertical (like holding onto the drops) vs horizontal (like on flat bars).

Thoughts?

well for starters I would rotate the bar more upwards. It should give you even more of an angle but...

you should definately look into new bars. You would definately benefit from an anatomical bend like on this bike.

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/4275/r3yq6.jpg

It has an angled area to put your hands on like you were trying to create with the pvc. There are even other shapes of bars that go even more vertical like deda bars.

I think my stem fits a 26.4 bar - my lbs said that the ergo bars didn't come in that size. Do you know of any sites I could scour for bars?

[Man, that's a sexy bike!]

most road bars are 25.8, 26, or 31.8mm. On sheldon browns site he says...

Stem Clamp - 26.4 mm........Older Cinelli and Cinelli copies. Cinelli changed over to 26.0 mm in 1998.

They do seem hard to find. I look and see if I can find any bars for you. Changing the stem would be pretty costly. I think around $75 plus new bars.

Haha - I meant options while grabbing the brakes. With the hoods up more (I adjusted them since those pictures) I can just, just barely grab the brakes with my pointy finger when in the drops.

Took her out for a spin (6 miles to the lbs and back). First bump I hit my hands flew right off the hoods, just barely grabbed the bars to avoid the wipe out. This did not instill the aura of confidence (especially since this was in traffic)! Also couldn't really get enough leverage to stop in the distance I needed it to from the hoods (even with my thumbs wrapped around). The bike in general feels 'jumpy' though - maybe the larger yet thinner wheels to what I'm used to?

I talked to him about getting those ergo bars but he checked and can't get them that will fit the stem. He did recommend though getting a few pieces of PVC pipe, cutting them and creating that angle. Then tape the heck out of it. Not a bad idea - next project. Probably would be a little shock absorbing by design as well. Needed to go to Home Depot to get a new drill anyway.



Yeah, I pitied my teachers.... ;)

You have older single pivot brakes, which require more force on the brake levers. You can recognize the newer dual pivot ones -- they have a second pivot bolt off center. Dual pivots can stop you with a lighter pull on the brakes, making it easier to stop from the hoods. Of course, everyone used single pivots until recently.

Your hands should stay on the hoods even over bumps. Are you wrapping your pinky and fourth finger under the bar while in the hoods?

You should be able to reach the brake levers in the drops. Search on BF for comments about short reach brakes. Women in particular need them. But it doesn't sound like you have small hands. Do you need to slide your hand farther forward into the curve while in the drops?

Have you tried moving the seat back on the rails? That takes pressure off your hands, too.

Could you post a photo of you riding? Just glancing at your bike, I'd guess that you still have overall adjustment issues. If the seatpost is properly adjusted to your leg length, I'd say the frame is too large for you.

It really looks like you're trying to make a road bike into a cruiser or hybrid with the seat so far down and the stem so far up.

You'll find it rides much better with a pedal on the left side, too. :-)

Thanks guys!


most road bars are 25.8, 26, or 31.8mm. On sheldon browns site he says...

Stem Clamp - 26.4 mm........Older Cinelli and Cinelli copies. Cinelli changed over to 26.0 mm in 1998.

They do seem hard to find. I look and see if I can find any bars for you. Changing the stem would be pretty costly. I think around $75 plus new bars.

The stem is brand new - Nitto Technomic because the others were way too short. Just pulled it out to double check - 25.4.


You have older single pivot brakes, which require more force on the brake levers. You can recognize the newer dual pivot ones -- they have a second pivot bolt off center. Dual pivots can stop you with a lighter pull on the brakes, making it easier to stop from the hoods. Of course, everyone used single pivots until recently.


Ahhh, interesting... So would something like this (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014&brand=&sku=14029&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Brakes) help that?


Your hands should stay on the hoods even over bumps. Are you wrapping your pinky and fourth finger under the bar while in the hoods?

Yup - the bike is just very springy. I'm getting more used to it but on bumps it loads more than my mtb which kinda thunked over everything. I think it's a by product of a larger steel frame which I'm not used to. But I'm constantly emergency braking (yes, I watch traffic but the cabs are super aggressive especially when someone sticks they're hand up 100 feet in front of you) and the last thing I want is to slam on the brakes when I get cut off and my hands bounce off the brakes.


You should be able to reach the brake levers in the drops. Search on BF for comments about short reach brakes. Women in particular need them. But it doesn't sound like you have small hands. Do you need to slide your hand farther forward into the curve while in the drops?

The drops are too narrow for my hands - so actually the other problem. Without bending my hand (from thumb to pinky) convex I couldn't get into the drops - and then if they were positioned up I'd have to really contort to reach them. The way they're set up now I can reach the brakes perfectly in the drops, but I'm a bit too scared to ride in the hoods because of that bouncey action. Plus I feel like I'm going to fall over the front.


Have you tried moving the seat back on the rails? That takes pressure off your hands, too.

It's pretty much as far back as it goes. Actually I may move it forward - I kept finding myself being more on the front part and not actually in the 'right' spot.


Could you post a photo of you riding? Just glancing at your bike, I'd guess that you still have overall adjustment issues. If the seatpost is properly adjusted to your leg length, I'd say the frame is too large for you.

I'll see what I can do - if a friend swings by before a night ride tonight that shouldn't be too hard otherwise I have to play with the timer.

The frame might be about an inch too large - but it's actually shorter than my mtb which is a few inches too small for me. Go figure :) If I stand over it the top bar touches the bits but there's still an inch before it can't go up anymore.


It really looks like you're trying to make a road bike into a cruiser or hybrid with the seat so far down and the stem so far up.

I'm trying to make the drops my default position - but I can't support myself fully without feeling like I'm constantly falling forward. When I grab the middle I'm up WAY too high so I'm getting fustrated with the lack of an inbetween. There was one bar I saw that had a very short drop so it looked like it was meant to ride in the drops and not the hoods - Midge? I wish there was someplace I could just try out different bars at.

It took me a while to figure out on my mtb that the bars were too low - when I made them close to even with the seat it was heaven and I could ride all day without issues. So I'm trying to get the drops in the same position since it worked on the other bike. And at this point I hear Hambone in the back of my head saying the best bike is the one you ride the most. If I can't go more than two hours on this I'd chuck it which would suck after putting the money I already have into it. So if I have to do something funky to be on it for hours so be it - already I feel less fatigued then on the same amount on my mtb except for my wrists.


You'll find it rides much better with a pedal on the left side, too. :-)

Pbbbbt! :D I call that my shin saver so when I walk in I don't catch the pedal in my shin. After a few times I learned quickly - the pedal wrench is now hanging up by the front door ready to go. Though I have forgotten to put it back on once or twice. Luckily it's hard to get far when that happens :D

I tried moving my seat around on Saturday. Helped a little. I was surprised that on the 50 mile trip on Sunday they didn't hurt as bad but still did. I kept changing hand positions which helped but something else needs to happen.

I had some early wrist issues when I first moved to my JTS.

The key for me (after a lot of trying) was a combination of core conditioning, angling the bars so the tops of the bars leading to the hoods are paralell with the ground, and moving the seat back a little and down a little from where i wanted it at first (being used to an MTB). With the bars this way, when my right hand is on the hood it's just like shaking someone's hand -- a very natural hand position and i can find the hoods without looking and have gone there intuitively in panic stops...and yes, I've done the front wheel stand, which scared the !$!%^ out of me.

Ergo bars are well worth it...do you have any buds who are roughly your size and have ergo bends so you could borrow the bike for afew miles? Heck, if you're in DC I'll do it...

Can you get a spacer sleeve for the stem / bar interface?

Hey, I'm going to chime in and throw in my $.02.

The width of the bars seems fine if you have 50" shoulders. Those bars you have look like pretty standard old Nittos or Sakaes - which I've found pretty comfortable, but ergo bars are popular with a lot of folks. I have more modern ergo bars on 2 of my 4 bikes.

The PVC modification seems like a bad idea to me. I'm seeing some red flags right away looking at your setup. The saddle seems really low in relation to the bars, plus it's a saddle that seems better suited to more upright riding. I'm an uber-clyde, at 6'4" and a svelte 310#, and I found that losing the "gel super padded" seats and getting an "ass hatchet" that fits, I was able to ride longer, and more comfortably. It's all about getting your weight on your ischial tuberosities - your sit bones:

http://www.agrabilityproject.org/assistivetech/tips/tractorseats_files/Ischialtuberosities.gif

A little bit of padding is ok, but fit is more important.

The default position that you're looking for is riding on the hoods. Riding in the drops is not really that great for long distance - it's what you do when you're sprinting, kicking out extra power, or battling a head wind.

If you have a flat-bar mountain bike, riding on properly set up hoods gives you a similar grip to using bar-end extensions. I find it even a bit more comfortable. You're able to easily move your hand in, out, back to the flats, etc.

Here's a picture of my setup - during an 82-mile ride this last weekend. Nothing that hasn't been talked about already; bars almost parallel with the top tube, but with slightly more of a downward tilt. Brifters forming a nice flattish area along with to top of the bar. Bars close to the same height as the seat, but just a little lower:

http://www.zero-sf.com/myspace/bianchi_brava.jpg

Try adjusting to match some of the pictures that people have posted, and take some allen wrenches on a short ride. :)

Longer term, I'd recommend finding a local shop that sells some used parts, and getting a 26mm road stem. You can sell your technomic on ebay for close to what you paid for it. You may even be able to sell the bars for a reasonable amount if they're old Nitto's or Sakaes. Get yourself a set of ergo bars. Put some extra padding on the tops and drops, and wrap them with decent cork tape. If there's a coop in your area, you could probably do the whole swap for $30-40. I recently picked up a used 26mm technomic, and a set of used 46cm Salsa ergo bars for $35 total at the local coop. $4 got me a new roll of synthetic cork tape from the local Performance shop.

Thanks all!!

Saddle - so far no problems. Rode 85 miles this weekend, when I took a break I wasn't looking forward to sitting back on there but wasn't in pain and was the most miles I've put on this bike at a clip. When I rode in that century in the fall I had a big cumfy gel seat on my mtb and my butt was the ONLY part of me that didn't hurt or ache either that day or the next :D My sit bones are about 8" across, most of the saddles I've seen are way too narrow. The saddle there covers them and is fairly firm - the gel isn't very squishy. Also has a nice groove in the middle to take pressure off.

The stem and bars were brand new so I could raise them up and get them wide enough for my shoulders (yes, my shoulders are about 55 cm wide). The bars actually looked how many of you are suggesting when I first got it - the problem is that I really feel unsafe riding on the hoods. I have to really grip (white knuckle) otherwise the bumps/potholes eject my hands off of them. I rarely ride more than 3 minutes without braking HARD while in traffic. Cars are constantly cutting each other off and don't really care about this guy on a bike - only that they're stopping them from getting to the next red light. Granted if I rode outside of the city I'd probably set it up differently but at this point I just don't trust the hoods so the bars look higher than I'm actually holding them.

My lbs made a good point about getting used al bars - if they were bent or stressed at some point you may not know it until you hit a bump. I could sell the bars - they are spanking new.

I just pulled the trigger and ordered Trekking bars (http://sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html) from Harris Cycling. The pictures seem to be the grip, height, and positioning I'm looking for - I know a few people have put them on their folders and loved them. With a bit of luck they'll be on by this weekend!

Again, thanks for all the input! I think if my riding style was different and I could ride on the hoods I wouldn't have as much of an issue.

I would like to re-ask this again:




You have older single pivot brakes, which require more force on the brake levers. You can recognize the newer dual pivot ones -- they have a second pivot bolt off center. Dual pivots can stop you with a lighter pull on the brakes, making it easier to stop from the hoods. Of course, everyone used single pivots until recently.


Ahhh, interesting... So would something like this (http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=69&subcategory=1014&brand=&sku=14029&storetype=&estoreid=&pagename=Shop%20by%20Subcat%3A%20Road%20Brakes) help that?


since I wasn't even aware that there was a difference in newer vs older brake levers.

Air - it just ocurred to me that maybe the prob you're having with balancing on the hoods is that your bike is either a bit too long, or your saddle is set a bit too far back. If you place your elbow right on the tip of your saddle, you should be able to touch the handlebar, while keeping your arm parallel to the top tube.

The trekking bars are comfy for sure. One potential gotcha you might want to think about is that they are different diameter than your current bars - so you'll need new brakes and shifters. The trekking bars I think take 22.2mm (MTB) components.

I started with my drop bars just a little higher than the saddle, and as I lost weight and gained core strenght, I lowered them more. On my fixed gear, I am riding with the bars a full 3" lower than the seat now! And it's comfortable (and I can go a lot faster).

Everyone is proportioned different, and it's entirely possible that your arms are shorter than what your height would suggest. I am cursed/blessed with orangutang arms, and I arrived at my current sizing and setups through trial and error, so good luck with your experiments. :)

Hey audioel;

Hmmm, when I put my elbow at the tip I could reach the handlebars - they were about an inch or two too close from being completely stretched out from fingertip to elbow.

I read about the diameter. Won't have a problem with the shifters (they actually were meant for that diameter and had to fiddle to get them to fit on the drop bars I have (and just found out why!)) though the brakes worry me. I'll find out if the brakes will work when they come I guess before redoing everything.

I have been told my arms are a bit shorter for my torso so that messes with things a bit (and my right arm is an inch shorter than my left!).

If my handlebars were up another inch or so the drops would be about 3 inches below the saddle (just measured). It's not that I can't balance on the hoods (though they way they're set up now I admit are a little too far out for comfortable hood riding but makes the drops more comfy for me) but that the bike loads and springs under me. I think partly I'm not used to riding a good steel framed road bike; I like the absorption on it but there's a lot of force upwards. I can't just have my hands gently resting on them, I have to really push and grip to make sure they won't come off. Scary!

Thanks!!

Hi Guys...

I'm just a newbie here, but I was wondering if you considered adding additional brake levers in the hoods. I have these, as I am rarely in the drops, and I find them very convenient, especially if I have to be in defensive mode while in the city.... Your LBS can add these, and they are not very expensive.... Just a thought..

I thought about them - I still may get those after I try out the trekking bars.

UPDATE: Just went to my lbs to pick up a new wheel. He goes, "I didn't know it was you! Let me get a better one built for you - you're, uhmm...harder on parts than most" :D

$60, handbuilt 36 spoke with sealed bearings. I felt the 32 spoke version - wow! Should be here hopefully by Friday which would be fantastic. If the trekking bars come in it'll probably ride like a completely different bike!

Now out for a longer ride :)

Boy, glad I ordered the new wheel. Got back from my ride yesterday - rear is bent to crap. Crossing my fingers it gets here on Friday!

So my neighbor finally after months of talking broke out his old road bike and we have been riding. He has a mid 80's Schwinn Traveller. My point to this is that he has the original brake levers where it has the bars that you can grab when you are on the top of the bars. Why did that go out of style?

They are called 'suicide bars' - they don't put enough force on the levers to stop so when you do a panic stop and slam on the brakes you kinda glide... :)

*Update* I put the trekking bars on. I think they'll do the trick - I can get lower without putting pressure on my wrists though I do have them turned up a bit more than they may meant to be. Great for climbing too - though I think I'm going to get a few pairs of cheap grips followed by tape, the thinner bar is tough to grab.

Got that new wheel in. They trued it up, put it on, got a sealed bb, put on longer crank arms and now a triple, they had to swap the rear deraileur with a longer arm for the triple. It's like a new bike! Took almost two hours with all the adjusting and fidling - $125 (including the wheel, new bb, rear deraileur, and labor) for all of that! Did they hook me up or what?!

It's amazing how much of a difference the 175s feel over the 170 - so much more torque. Now I have to build the strength to use it. Can't ride till later tonight though :(