Living Car Free - Family affect on living car free

ILTB, you and other northern transportational cyclists who understand what a true winter is all about are a continual source of inspiration. I don't know how you can consistently face the early morning commute in those ridiculous temps. As I write this temps outside are 50's and sunny; so what do I know? Everyone has their limits and certainly every situation/climate has its unique demands.

It would seem that careful consideration and planning would be the only successful strategy when attempting to go carfree with children or the elderly. Lifestyle sacrifices must be made, and choosing a place to live with easy, safe bicycle access is essential. More often than not people come on the board living forty miles from nowhere needing to transport five or more people at a time and wanting to know how to go carfree?!?!?!? My rural lifestyle presents carfree challenges that the urbanites can't imagine, nevertheless, I'm more or less successful in my attempts. The OP wrote something about "keeping it simple". I more than willing to offer my solutions over the years on a case by case basis, but there is nothing "simple" about it. Carfree/carlite with children is a whole order of magnitude more difficult as you and I know.

More often than not people come on the board living forty miles from nowhere needing to transport five or more people at a time and wanting to know how to go carfree?!?!?!? My rural lifestyle presents carfree challenges that the urbanites can't imagine, nevertheless, I'm more or less successful in my attempts. The OP wrote something about "keeping it simple". I more than willing to offer my solutions over the years on a case by case basis, but there is nothing "simple" about it. Carfree/carlite with children is a whole order of magnitude more difficult as you and I know.
Yet there are those self righteous characters without any personal experience with the issues/challenges involved, getting all livid that their textbook, overly simplistic solutions to real problems are not appreciated as being the only acceptable/moral solution.

ILTB, you and other northern transportational cyclists who understand what a true winter is all about are a continual source of inspiration. I don't know how you can consistently face the early morning commute in those ridiculous temps.
I beat my boss to the draw this morning about who is ridiculous. He just came back to work today from a vacation.

"At least I didn't come back from a Florida vacation in the middle of the week to go back to work in weather like this!"

I beat my boss to the draw this morning about who is ridiculous. He just came back to work today from a vacation.

"At least I didn't come back from a Florida vacation in the middle of the week to go back to work in weather like this!"

:)

This gonna sound a bit trite maybe but find a neighborhood with plenty of doctors and become a very good neighbor, that way in a middle of the night emergancy you have plenty of options.
By this logic, no one should have kids at all, because taking kids to the emergency room when one of the parents needs to go is rather less than ideal (I don't know about you, but I'm not exposing an infant or young kid to potentially serious germs if not absolutely necessary, not to mention the boredom factor). Regardless of car-status, if one of us needs an urgent trip to the hospital, we're probably going to rely on friends for either transport or childcare. (Yes, this is something we've dealt with.)

If it isn't too late at night or too urgent, we can get to the hospital with a combo of bus and walking. Not our first choice, but it works.

We do have friends and neighbors who we can rely on in a pinch. I know, God forbid we be anything but 100% self-sufficient, because no people who drive ever rely on friends. Interdependancy is just a horrible thing.

If not, taxi services exist.

If it's urgent enough that we can't wait for a taxi or help from a friend, there's this thing called an ambulance that will take you to the hospital, as well as provide supportive care along the way. Sure, it costs a lot if insurance won't cover it, but still less than a owning a car if used infrequently (as has been the case so far - only one of the four of us has ever even had one ambulance ride in our lives).

This is an area where overreliance on driving can be a trap, honestly. What are you going to do if you're home alone (or worse, with young kids) and have a medical emergency where aren't able to or don't feel safe driving yourself? And I've heard that people who drive their loved ones (or themselves) to a hospital in an emergency are at higher risk of getting in an accident due to distraction, speeding, and the like.

We can play what-if all day. There are some serious issues related to lack of car ownership, and I don't think any of us are denying that. For example, we live in a floodplain protected by levees, and a Katrina-type disaster is a distinct possibility (and has been much hyped in the media over the past year). If we can't find someone who is willing to give us a ride or let us drive their second car to safety (which would be a benefit to them, too, since their car wouldn't be flooded), we're stuck with whatever halfassed plan the government comes up with.

For that matter, what if we run out of diapers in the middle of a freak central California snowstorm and can't drive to the store to get more? Oh no!

The question is whether the benefits outweigh the costs and potential risks.

Actually, we live in a high spot in the floodplain, which is something I have consideredand looked at.

I've also biek commuted in the snow. (Virgnia, Pennsylvania, and Iceland). Nooffense to anyone, but you gear up right and it's not really that world shattering a thing to do. It takes effort and dedication and not many people do it, but it is very doable.

It might be interesting to hear from those livid experts on this thread/list with personal experience discuss how they reliably transported their family members (especially children or infirm family members) on a regular schedule to various destinations on bicycles in weather conditions found outside of Sunny California and/or where public transportation is not practical (schedule, route, or time limitations) or non existant.

You know, you don't HAVE to live in Bum**** Iowa, just as people don't HAVE to live in the frozen north, or in a town without public transportation, or in the far-suburbs of a town with great inner-city public transit.

The carfree opposition typically starts by explaining how their situation demands a car. In a clean-slate situation where you're free to live wherever you choose, all of these arguments go away. Of course, there are some exceptions like the very poor, or people with an extremely specialized job (though that was a decision as well).

Your life demands a car because you have allowed it to become that way. If not having a car made you cool, or rich, or enviable to the masses, people would be selling them left and right. As is, they have absolutely no desire and instead of just admitting it they mask it with defensive arguments about how their situation is special.

You know, you don't HAVE to live in Bum**** Iowa, just as people don't HAVE to live in the frozen north, or in a town without public transportation, or in the far-suburbs of a town with great inner-city public transit.

The carfree opposition typically starts by explaining how their situation demands a car. In a clean-slate situation where you're free to live wherever you choose, all of these arguments go away
Ah Yes,Ye olde "clean-slate situation," with no responsibilities or obligations or ambitions or goals (expect to be a self righteous puritan) does provide some freedom advantages for those of that persuasion. Good luck in your quest for completing your "slate." You seem well on the way!

infirm family members
You calling a freaking cab! Sheesh, even the Amish use telephones for medical emergencies.


Yet there are those self righteous characters without any personal experience with the issues/challenges involved, getting all livid that their textbook, overly simplistic solutions to real problems are not appreciated as being the only acceptable/moral solution.
I'm sorry, but I've yet to see you demonstrate that any of the answers to your questions are overly simplistic. On the contrary, you seem to simply ignore all the rebuttals to your extremely contrived criticisms, despite the fact that there seem to be very realistic and practicable solutions being offered.

If you disagree then you should start addressing the specific problems with the solutions given instead of arbitrarily declaring that they are "overly simplistic".


Ah Yes,Ye olde "clean-slate situation," with no responsibilities or obligations or ambitions or goals (expect to be a self righteous puritan) does provide some freedom advantages for those of that persuasion. Good luck in your quest for completing your "slate." You seem well on the way!
Could this be any more backwards?

Those who pay no attention to the environmental consequences of their actions are the ones that are irresponsible, without ambition, and self centered. Those who choose to pay the price of responsibly fulfilling environmental obligations by ambitiously working towards the goal of a environmentally sustainable future are not the self centered ones.

The fact that trying to live car free is right combined with the fact that you are constantly challenging car free individuals to defend the virtues of living car free does not mean that they are "self righteous". It means that you are dense.

Also, you are using the "clean slate" solution as much as the previous poster. The difference is that you are using it to solve another problem. In essence, you are suggesting that we wash our hands of environmental responsibility in order to satisfy selfish ambition, while the previous poster is suggesting that we sacrifice a little bit of our selfish ambition in order to make room for some environmental responsibility. They are both clean slate solutions. They both require compromises. The question is what will you compromise? A clean environment for your great grandchildren or a mainstream lifestyle? It's as simple as that.

There's a good blog here...

http://www.sightline.org/research/sprawl/res_pubs/durning-carless

He does live in Seattle, and the kids are a bit older, but it is a rational discussion about what it means to not have a car and have kids...

Thank you all for your comments on the topic. i havent been able to come online for a few weeks due to work but would just like to add a little insight i've gathered these last few weeks. I live in glendora ca, pretty normal city, and based on the advice a few people in this thread have given have looked into a few things. Turns out if i want the bus runs right past the pre school i went to as a child and would like my daughter to go to, and there are quite a few buses that travel outside the areas where i feel comfortable riding. Im sorry i started a huge deal with the people who feel cars are the only way to raise children, i dont know if your right or not yet. Because ive been car free for quite a while at 21, i assumed there were more people in a living car free forum who had done it much longer. I like not having to rely on a car to get around and id like to keep doing so. But i know its 10x harder with two small children than it is with one so i was looking for some wisdom on how this can be done. My girlfriend is 4 months so when my kid is born ill keep trying to live like i do and post a new thread so i can possibly help someone else out.Thanks again for the very good points supporting both sides it give me a lot to think about and research.