Mountain Biking - Weight, geometry and handling issues.

Hi all.

I have asked some time ago about forks here. The Z1DropOff and the MXPro.ETA. Mael and A2 and others where very helpfull on enlightening me on the technical side of the forks. After some research i have done i got some new questions .

I got a 2003 HT specialized rockhopper and the geometry is as follows (if this helps) 71deg headtube angle 73 seattube angle. Currently i am running a 4.2lbs Axel elite which problems i have described on earlier posts. Anyhow...my rides are 4-7 hours long on extremely variable terrain ....steep uphills steep downhills...rock gardens and fireroads...and lots of singletrack in between.... no intensional jumps...and unfortunately when i see a small drop off (1-2 ft) i stop and carry the bike since i dont trust my current fork.
So my questions are : How usefull are 130mm of travel with ETA (with ETA i presume i wont care about the travel since i ll get a stiff setup with only 30mm to climb) in comparison with 100mm of the MXPro. Given my bike geometry will i loose much? If so...i could use a more stable platform...i can easily manouver my bike inside tight spots so i dont care for a little slackening...but i wouldl love some more control over steep descents or high speed descents.
The Z1DropOff is 400g heavier than MXPro or my current Axel fork (5lbs vs 4.2lbs) How this will affect things up? I am not a weight weenie!!! i just dont like to get thinks "tanked" up without a good reason.
Given that i am 200lbs...is it better to go from the axel to MXpro or straight to Z1DropOff in terms of stiffness? Meaning that i dont want to spend cash with little difference in terms of stiffness. I am bored seeing my front wheel moving wildly left to right under hard pedalling with the axel fork.

And one last technical question. The Z1dropoff is dual coil with ETA, the MXpro is single coil with air in the other leg. Is the dual coil solution better in terms of durability and longetivity?

Tech Talk.
Rockhopper 2003 19" 71/73 deg. 4lbs. frame,
ZControl Pedals (YES i am not a weight weenie!!!)
RF Deus 110/5 stem.
XT Disc Brakes ,Drivetrain

Z1Drop off option. 5lbs, Dualcoil , 130mm, ETA, 32mm stanchions.
MXpro option. 4.2lbs,Coil/Air, 105mm, ETA , 30mm stanchions.

Thank you for your forthcoming replies.
Come to greece and have some fun rides together...in the new Mt.Parnitha Olympic MTB race course. :D :beer:

Yannis.

ETA - I don't find I use it. Unless I know there is a long climb ahead and I am willing to stop. The terrain here is too rough to reach down for it. However when I do use it on the trails where I can it is awesome as it drops my bike into a xc feel. I can climb longer and faster as there is no bob. On 4 to 7 hour rides you may find yourself using it on easy section just to relieve some stress and give yourself an entire different ride for a short time.

I still think the MX is the better choice for you. The Z1 is meant more for dropping and lght freeriding while the MX is best for agggressive xc. Either way you will not notice weight in the front after a couple of rides.

As for air vs coil....tough one I always opt for coil as I don't trust air forks. At 200pound you are right on the cust of bigness which means you could blow the air fork. I still think, even having said that, that the MX is your best bet. You have to decide how aggressive you think you are going to ride. Personally I would get the z1...I don't like air...I don't care about weight....I love 5 inches of travel (feels niceeee) and the 32 mm stanchions will be stiff.

But really I think I said all this before so my opinion hasn't changed...;) :D

Hey Mael, i am a bit confused with the MXproETA fork. It sais it is an air/coil fork with a low air-pressure unit. it is not strictly an air for such as the MXCompAir. Does this mean that the MXpro is a tricky solution as far as it incorporates an air mechanism even if it is not a strictly air fork? The MXpro without eta is dual coil but then again it lack the precious to me ETA system while the Dropoff is dual coil with ETA. just asking about the reliability.

The one air leg saves weight. With the whole system not being air and the spring taking up the slack the system will be fine. For you and you riding either will be fine. 5 inches to 4 inches is the real comparison as thtat does change how the bike rides. A number of forks run the spring / air combo with great success as it is a good comprimise between the strength and reliability of spring and light weight features of air. :)

So let me get this straight. The air/coil combo has no issues in reliability. The 130 to 100 mm travel has issues in riding. Getting a test ride is out of the question unfortunately so i rely partially on your opinion. How will my ride differ with 4 or 5 inches of travel ? I am all ears.

4 inches keeps you in a more xc form (butt up and body leaned forward) it isn't signifigant but it is easier on uphills. 3 inches is even more signifigant in this direction. 4 inches was fine and I did great with it but on dh I was pointed down too much and was alwasy nervous about an endo. Under normal circumstances the turning would have been sharper as well but with my crappy fork buckling so easily under me I ALWAYS had issues turning. But typically the less slack your bike the more maneuverable it is on trails UNLESS the frame is designed for a bigger fork.

5 inches - tilts you further back making you sit on the bike and much more chopperish. On climbs has a tendency to pop you back but with practice you can learn to avoid this. On dhills is much more stable as you are further back. You will feel better and feel less like endoing. Also because of the geometry change the steering changes and can make the steering feel slow butagain this depends on geometry and what you are used to.

In either case these fork's will be stiffer than your current one and really the 5 inch lack of steering will be more then made up for by the instant response you will get because the fork is signifgantly stiffer anyways...

Hopefully that helps :)

Great answer man. really thanks. i think i ll go for the 5er. I got the same fear-of-endo issues cause i feel i am sitting very high and front on the bike so i believe the 5er will serve me right. The ETA will rectify the climbing stuff i pressume and my frame is built around an 80-100mm fork so 130 wont be a huge change i believe. anyhow if the steering becomes slacker i think i can make it fast again with skill. Thanks mael. I hope that you visit Greece sometime to ride together.

I would love to visit Greece. Who knows someday...if you are ever up for a rain forest adventure on the shore in Canada give me a ring.

and best of luck with the fork...it is a lot of fun and watch out for the confidence - the fork seems to have balls of its own :)

just chimming in here (a little late), I (once again) wholeheartily agree with Mael., the only other thing I would add is whether you've considered the QR-20 thru axle option on the Z-1. On a 5" travel fork, the thru axle makes the fork steer rock solid. Yes, it'll add even more weight, and you'll need to get the hub that is sometimes sold seperately (if buying on-line).

I didn't think I'd notice a big difference, but rode a bike with the same fork as mine only in the standard quick release, and I thought I was riding "al dente".

L8R

Hehe , A2 i ll check it out for the 20mm axle. However i am afraid that i might go off bugdet. By the Way maelstrom...i currently live in Cardiff UK which is very similar to the North Shore situations in Canada so i am sure that i will love riding in Canada. Anyhow riding in Greece (i havent rode in greece for several years though ) is rocky and dusty :D:D:D:D less cleaning more fun!

Ohhhhhhh...liar ;)...I thought you were in Greece...and I hear the shore scene there is exploding. Quite the adventure. What was the joke I heard "Soon there will be a skinnie from shore to shore it is growing so fast"...:D...

Hahahahahaha nice!!!! I am in Greece now....i just live in Cardiff for term time while i soon finish up my postgrad studies in the UK. I am leaving for the UK tomorrow unfortunately....no more sunshine or good meals for me there !!! :(