Road Cycling - Need expert opinions...........

Hi all,

I really need some help with bike selection. A bit of background first. I am 6ft 5in, approx 118kg (and loosing), and currently commute and try to do some decent training rides on an Avanti Hurricane MTB. The MTB was recommended to me by my LBS a few years ago, with the justification being that no road bike would handle my weight.

I have put slicks on the bike, have a computer, am trying to take the cycling more seriously, and am getting extremely annoyed with the weight / sluggishness / etc of the MTB. I am trying (and in some cases succeeding) to keep up with some of the "real" roadies out on training rides during lunchtimes and on the weekends.

After a lot of lurking on forums such as this one (which by the way, I have found to be the best of the lot that I have found to date - congrats to the organisers etc) I have come to the conclusion that there are bikes out there suitable for bigger riders, although I temper that with the fact that not all bikes will be suitable for me.

I would rather pay a little more for quality, am not overly concerned with a little extra weight and would rather trade weight for durability any day of the week.

To my point (and sorry if I am a little long-winded - just thought that I needed to paint a bit of a picture in order to get the right advice). I am looking currently at a number of bikes, ranging from the standard off-the-shelf models to hand made ones (expensive). The two that I am seriously considering at the moment are:

Trek 1500 (http://www.cyclery.com.au/trek_cat03/trek_road_1500.htm)

Cannondale R800 (http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/03/cusa/model-3RR8D.html)

My concerns are that the standard wheelsets that come with these two bikes may / may not cope with my weight. I also looked at the R1000 which has Mavic Ksyrium Elites.

One LBS I went to offered to build a new wheelset for the Trek - 36 spoke double-butted for the same price as the standard Trek (he knows from speaking to me that he will also get a lot more business from me - computer, accessories, clothing etc etc etc - the list goes on).

What I would like is any feedback from you guys as to what sort of setup I should aim for. Am I looking in the right area (I don't want to start up the steel vs aluminium debate again)? Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time.

Colonel

Your LBS' offer to build up a set of 36h rims is worth pursuing. While the additional strength inherent with 36 spokes per wheel is obvious, what is perhaps more important is the quality and attention to detail in the building of the wheels. If your LBS has a good reputation for building reliable wheels that should give you lots of piece of mind.

Keep in mind that the majority of tandem teams weigh more than you 318lbs / 118kg and some run well into the 400 - 500lbs range and many of them run on 36h & 40h wheelsets without any problems whatsoever. Of late, low-spoke count aero wheels are also being offered in tandem-rated models such as the Shimano-Santana 16 spoke aero rims and Bontragers Race-Lite Tandem Wheels. While I'm not suggesting these would be better wheels (frankly, I don't think they are the best choice for the average teams or riders), it points out that there are high performance 700c wheelsets available that can easily handle higher than average weights.

Back to frame materials, my gut instinct tells me you might be best served by searching out a local frame builder who could create a frame that's designed specifically for you. At 6'5" you're hardly a "standard fit" for even most extra large size frames. By working with a custom frame builder you could be sure to get a frame that fits you properly, takes into consideration your weight and any unique component requirements such as higher placement of the brake pivot hole for the large-tire compatible Shimano BR-600 brake arch or perhaps even cantilever / linear-pull (aka, V-brakes). I certainly don't see you riding on tires smaller than 700x28, and would even consider something larger if your roads are anything less than ideal. If you go the custom route steel would be my pick for many reasons -- less expensive to make, very easy to tailor and then long term durability being the biggest one.

Anyway, just something to consider if you're about to make a fairly significant investment in a long-term relationship with a bicycle.

Livngood,

Thanks a lot for the info. I am impressed with the LBS guy - he has a wealth of knowledge / experience, and I would feel very comfortable with any package that he put together for me. As for the custom build steel issue, I have yet to find a custom builder in Australia that meets my needs (I do have a budget limit). I have found a number of custom frame designers that create wonderful bikes (and I mean create - they are literally works of art - but expensive ones).

I particularly like the lifetime warranties on the Trek and Cannondale frames. If you have the time, what are your thoughts on the Mavic Ksyrium's? I would be interested to know. By the way, I saw one of your previous posts on the bikes you own - very impressive!! I am most jealous. Thanks again.

Colonel, I am 6'6" tall and weigh 260. I have a Trek 5200 which is made with carbon fiber. The wheels supplied on the bike were Bontrager Race Lites. These are the low spoke count aero wheels. I have put 1000+ miles on them since I got the bike a couple of months ago. They hit me as a strong wheel set. So far there have been no problems with them.
When I was looking at this bike I had a lot of questions about its suitability for someone my (and your) size. The lbs said that they had no problems with this frame or wheelset from riders that weighed even more than myself.
I am not real familiar with the Trek 1500 and don't think they sell them in the US. But looking at the price and component set-up it looks fairly comparable with the 5200 or 2300. Check out the 5200 though. The ride that CF gives is amazing. With Treks lifetime warranty it may be worth it.

Georgesnatcher,

Thanks a lot for the reply. The 1500 is the top end of the AL in the Trek range - just before the CF. I will probably stick with the 1500 from a price range issue - still want to be able to buy all the bits and pieces that I will need - spares, repair kit, minipump, clothing, computer, bidons & cages.......... the list goes on. Good to hear that your wheels are holding up - it gives me more hope (have had nightmares about snapping spokes every time I went out for a ride). Thanks for the reply.:)

Nothing beats having a good bike shop guy to put your trust in. I'm sure he'll give you good council on the frames you are considering.

The Mavic Ksyrium's have been used by a couple tandem teams -- 270lb to 350lb -- with mixed results. The seemed to go out of true fairly fast under the weight the heavier teams. You can find some of the comments in this archive search:
http://catfood.phred.org/query.asp?SearchString=Ksyrium&SortBy=MsgDate%5Bd%5D&Scope=tandem

In general, I think wheelsets like the Ksyrium's, Bontrager RaceLites, etc... are great as a second set of wheels for use on "special occasions". However, for reliability, ease of repair, parts availability nothing beats a conventional component wheel built around a reliable hub. When matched with some of the newer deep section rim offerings from Velocity, you can actually get a wheelset that's almost as light as the integrated wheelsets, has a similar "look", some aero advantages over box-rim designs but without the headaches associated with getting an integrated wheelset fixed if one gets damaged. This is really beneficial if you plan to do any touring where you're not always guaranteed to have a bike shop that stocks some of the more chi-chi stuff.

So, there you have it. I have both conventional aero wheelsets and integrated aero wheelsets (in addition to various box-rim wheelsets):

Conventional Aero:
Phil Wood hubs / Velocity Deep-V,
White Industries hubs / Velocity Deep-V,
Chris King / Velocity AeroHeat AT (MTB Tandem),
Shimano XT / Velocity Aeroheat AT (MTB Single)

Integrated Aero:
Mavic Cosmic Elite
Campagnolo Eurus

I won't tour on the integrated wheelsets and always take along a second set of wheels when I go away for weekend rides with the Eurus or Cosmic Elites "just in case".

Thanks for the kind words on our stable. It took 30 years to get to this point but it was well worth the journey. I only wish I'd been able to keep all of the bikes that I'd ever owned but, alas, there are limitations.

Good luck with your bike project and keep us posted.

Livngood,

WOW! Thanks for all the great info. You are confirming my suspicions / research / gut feel more and more. The LBS guy has been in the cycle business (training / coaching / mechanic / riding) for over 30 years now, and I value his opinion highly. I appreciate the time and effort you have put into the responses - I will have to print all this stuff out!!

Colonel.

p.s. I love the garage storage arrangement - very nice!:D

Hi,
I am close to your weight. The idea that no bike can handle you is absurd.
You will, however, need to be careful. Let's start with riding position. In 'Raise Dat Stem' Bob Gordan discusses riding position with an eye to staying out of the back surgeons office. http://www.rivbike.com/html/rr_raisestem.html
Most road bikes are built to create that aerodynamic riding position. If you're going to race; it's just what you need. If you're riding for pleasure and fitness; it's just what you don't need. A good bike will last decades, and if you want to keep riding it over the decades; you will need to keep that back healthy.
Try visiting some other bike shops, you want to look for a comfortable riding position on a well made bike. The bike needs to able to accomadate a 28cm tire. For our weight, 32cm is a typical size; but I have ridden 28cm in the past.
A good bike company will use stronger tubes in larger sizes; but not all of them do this. If the bike is lively, and feels secure in a fast corner; it's prob fine.
If you ride aluminium, one of two things will happen. You will either get a stiff, hard ride; or the bike won't last. Personally, I look at steel and titanium, I have had two aluminum bikes; and that was one too many.

HI KFC Guy, :-)

essentially everyone who has posted has given you some good Information.
For your weight If you're going to go for aluminium I'd go for the Cannondale R1000.
Why?
It's a stiffer frame than the Trek and should cope with your weight better over the long term.
If you're going to go for steel be surenot to go for the very lightest steel frames. You're probably quite strong and th amount of defelction you can create can actually make a very lightweight steel frame not very suitable.


As for wheels 36 spokes will be more than enough and make sure they wheels are built with double butted spokes. The boutique wheels like the Bontrager can be a nightmare to repair when things start to go wrong. They're difficult to true and sapres can be an issue.

I run 28 and 32 spoke rims. I have never poped a spoked...I have wore out an axle a time or two. My weight is from 270# to 205#.

Just don't jump no curbs.

Just an after thought on frame builders. You -- or perhaps your LBS guy -- might want to drop an Email to Dennis Bushnell located near Seattle, WA in the US. Dennis is one of the best bicycle frame fabricators in the business today and yet, still very reasonable when it comes to his pricing. He has a large, family run frame fabricating shop and builds the frames that many other "builders" sell under their own brand names, many of which would surprise you. Regardless, if you are considering a custom and are not having a lot of success finding a builder in Australia I'd really recommended giving Dennis a call.

Bushnell Cycle Designs
136 Stewart Road
Building 3 Unit D
Pacific, WA 98047

Phone: 253-826-2233
Fax: 253-826-2277
E-mail: bushcycles@aol.com

Originally posted by 1oldRoadie
I run 28 and 32 spoke rims. I have never poped a spoked...I have wore out an axle a time or two. My weight is from 270# to 205#.

Just don't jump no curbs.

thats quite a weight range there, 1oldroadie...

late, TimB, 1 oldRoadie, livngood & Phatman,

Thanks again for the responses.

late - great info on the back issues. I would like to remain healthy and be able to cycle longer, so will keep this in mind.

TimB - I share both of your concerns - the frame flexing will likely be an issue (weight, height, leg strength - 45 degree press 950lb) with the steel frames. Whatever setup I go with, it certainly won't be a stock standard off-the-shelf option - with whatever bike I will be looking for a more durable wheelset.

1oldRoadie - wasn't planning on any curb-hopping. I have however been out with roadies before who were horrified when I dropped off the path onto the road (MTB) without unclipping, shuffling along like an old lady to ensure I dont scratch up my superbly expensive riding shoes, checking to see that the frame didn't magically attract some dust or crud on the journey downwards (can't get these things dirty you know), then clipping back in and getting back into it.

livngood - the US is a long way away, our dollar is still struggling against yours, and the freight over to here would likely hurt a bit too........ but thanks for the suggestion.

Phatman - :D I too aspire to a weight range of similar proportions - 120kg - 100ish??? Should be do-able, if I back off the gym sessions a little! Keep it up 1old......

Thanks all. Any further feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by Colonel
Hi all,I really need some help with bike selection. A bit of background first. I am 6ft 5in, approx 118kg (and loosing),

Colonel.
Check out the post called Large Riders. I am 6'3" and 240lbs (about 110kgs). There are lots of large folks talking about the better wheelsets for "clydesdales" like us.

My LBS recommended the Cannondale to me because of the way the seat stays are designed. They give a better ride and put less rider enduced stress on the wheels.