General Cycling Discussion - Veterinarians & LBS money grabbers

Yesterday was a bad day for my wallet. I took my cat to the vet to get her annual shots. The vet insisted in giving her a "check up" before administering the shots. The "check up" costs $25, and consists mainly of the vet squeezing her belly. What a rip off!
Then, I called my LBS to see about getting a new chain for my Trek 720, a hybrid which has 21 speeds (3 chainrings and a 7 speed cassette). My LBS said he wouldn't sell me a chain without a new cassette, because the old cassette was probably worn from the worn chain (which had stretched 1/8"). I didn't agree with this, because I have recently put a new chain on my road bike, and it worked okay with the old cassette. So I called Colorado Cyclist. The tech guy told me they don't make chains for a 7 speed cassette any more, and therefore I needed a whole new groupo costing $900. So much for Colorado Cyclist. Then I called Bike Nashbar, and the tech guy said I could use an eight speed chain, which would work on my 7 speed cassette. So I ordered it. We'll see how it works with the old cassette. . He said the new chain has 114 links, and I only need 104, so I will have to shorten it.

Based on these two examples of my vet and my LBS, it seems like everybody is out for the almighty buck, and the consumer gets fleeced. Buyer beware!

Don't know about the Vet, but as for the LBS I can say that it seems as if they are indeed after your dollars.

Worn out or not, if you come into my shop asking for a new chain then I will sell you a new chain. I will mention that you will want to check your casette for wear but if ultimately all you want is a chain, that's what you get. YOU are the one shelling out money and I will not sell you anything that you do not want to pay for.

Also, I would have to see the casette to determine if it is worn out. I would never tell anyone that the need a new part without having seen the old part first.

I would much rather have repeat business from the same, satisfied customer than a one time sale (or none at all) from a dissatisfied one.

This sounds familiar, think I heard it too.

My LBS said he wouldn't sell me a chain without a new cassette, because the old cassette was probably worn from the worn chain (which had stretched 1/8").

If the old cogs weren't skipping under load with the old chain, then they are worn, and you will be ruining your new chain.
Look at it from the shop owner's perspective: You buy a new chain, and use it for 2 weeks, until you finally can't stand the gear skipping anymore. you bring it back to the shop, and have the cogs replaced. But you've already ruined the new chain by running it with the old cogs. The shop owner then has to decide whether to a)send it out, still not working correctly, and have you bad-mouth his work, or b) eat the cost of a new chain.
I would've told you the same thing. When your chain is that far gone, replace the cogs, too, or do it yourself.
(As far as the Colorado Cyclist situation goes-that's not the first time I've heard about them trying to sell you a lot more than you want. I don't deal with them, and their prices aren't that great, anyway)

When in doubt about a chain replacement use a SRAM PC48; they seem to be more forgiving of worn cogs and thus less likely to slip on them than any other.
They work on 5 through 8 speed cassettes and freewheels. They're also cheap, quiet, and durable.

I don't know about animals, but humans can't get a vaccine without a once over or it would be negligence Ie: certain conditions preclude giving a vaccine. Don't know what the vet was looking for but I gaurantee the 25 bucks did not go into his pocket...it probably just covered his technician's salary, health benefits and retirement plan. Now as for the LBS, that sounds like a rip off. Gaurantee he is not paying for medical health insurance, retirement funds etc. out of whatever he or she can sell to you for his employees. It sure doesn't sound like our LBS who is quite honest and forthright.

It is correct to inform you that there is a chance that your new chain will skip around your cogs, when replacing your chain. If so it is also correct to reccomend you replace your cassette as well.
Colorado Cyclist was wrong about 7 speed chains. I can still get 5,6,7,8 speed chains and in fact stock them on a regular basis for they sell. Same goes for 7 speed cassettes, also 8 speed chains do work with 7 speed cassettes. If in fact your cogs are worn then a PC 48 chain will not fix it it may be less noticeable but worn coga are worn cogs.

In Canada it is illegal for a vet to administer vaccines without doing a check-up first. This may not be the case in other countries. If you care about your pet the extra $25.00 is well spent.

Veterinarians are governed by state regulations (that vary from state to state). Most of those regulations are set up to provide the consumer with a decent standard of care to judge the care their animal receives, or to protect the public health. That is why in many states, rabies vaccines can only be administered by a DVM. If you don't want you pet examinined before vaccination, there are vaccine clinics available at many pet stores, like PetCo. I personally recommend against it, especially for very young or old pets. Vaccines are potent immune stimulents that can be overwhelming in compromised pets. If you don't want the exam, go to a vaccine clinic, but don't expect a professional to do less than his/her "best of care" whether for your pet or your bike. Just remember, they know as much more about their work as you do about your work compared to someone off the street.

Originally posted by trmcgeehan
My LBS said he wouldn't sell me a chain without a new cassette, because the old cassette was probably worn from the worn chain (which had stretched 1/8").
Well, if your chain is 1/8" out then he was probably right. When I replaced the chain on my MTB it had stretched about 1/16" and I figured I could change the chain without replacing the cassette. Went to the LBS and the guy said that he would sell me the chain but that I really should replace the cassette also since they wear together, but go ahead and try it if you want. I got home and replaced the chain and took it for a short ride and sure 'nuff it was skipping when I stood on the pedals. Went to another LBS to get the cassette replaced (too embarassed to go back to the first one! :D ) and all has been well since.

Bikes and pets have one thing in common. As they age, more money is required to keep them going. I wonder if yearly vaccinations are really necessary or is it a way of the vets making more money. I kniow of no vaccines that people must get every year.

If the LBS guy told you that the new chain was not the correct chain, then would that not take the warranty off of his hands? It sounds like the LBS guy was trying to take you for an extra few bucks.

I found out (the hard way) that it is easier and cheaper to just do it right the first time. One year, I kept track of my cycling expenses. In an effort to save money, I ended up spending like $2500 on cycling parts. In the end, I ended up with about a 1200-1500 dollar bike.

I could have either saved myself a grand by buying the bike I wanted in the first place, or bought myself a killer bike.

Originally posted by daniel22
. kniow of no vaccines that people must get every year.

And humans don't get heart worms and wear tick collars.

I think the analagy is fallacious.

Actually, if you have cystic fibrosis, emphysema or severe asthma, it is recommended that you get a flu vaccine every year and a pneumonia vaccine every 5 years since this is the population that dies from such afflictions.

The $25.00 is worth the price. No vaccine clinic is on call 24 hours a day should your cat have an adverse reaction to the vaccine and help instruct you on the appropriate medical care and course of action. That's an unspoken but inherent part of the
$25.00 you purchased for your cat. It's starting to sound like a bargain.

It is wrong to bring up the Influenza vaccine. The flu virus is unstable and changes every year. As far as I know the Rabies virus for example is stable and does not change every year.

When I was in the welding business I would not even show up at your job and crank up the welder for less than 150.00. It is not worth the time and setup efforts to do it for less than that. Does that make me a money grabbing theif?

25 bucks sounds like a fair deal for a vet visit. What is the avcerage price of a conceret ticket to go listen to a bunch of hooligans who probably don't have half the education of the vet if you added up the whole damn band.

25 bucks will barely cover a meal for two at a mediocre resturaunt. Theives all of them. We should all just work for free and forget about money :D

The bike shop on the other hand was definitely trying to give you a bath in bull$h!*. A whole grouppo! WTF go elseswhere friend.

Regarding the Vet. I know in CA. you do not need a "check-up" to get you animal vaccinated. Although if you need you pet to get rabies there needs to be a vetrinarian on the premises.

Yeah, I'd say you got hosed at both places. :D

I know in CA. you do not need a "check-up" to get you animal vaccinated.

To reiterate Jean Smith, the laws in each state for vet practices are different, probably so between KY and CA.

California also allows marijuana to be used for medicinal purposes by humans, but it does not apply here in Georigia so it's equivalent to comparing apples and oranges.

However, I do believe California is a progressive state compared to most others. I like California because it was the first to initiate tort reform and there isn't the malpractice crisis that's stewing in the rest of the country.

$25, Please, I just spent $700 for checkups and vaccines and drugs, with two animals to go.
Daniel22, If you have a high risk to exposure of rabies you should be vaccinated every couple of years, for example if you were an animal control officer. There are also vaccines for people exposed to hepatitis. They have to be renewed every few years.
Any body ever see what happens to an animal that gets rabies? And once they get it, they die, thats it, you can't get them fixed once the symptoms show.
As to the chain, KMC still makes 7speed chains but of course an 8speed chain will work fine also, same size. It will just cost a little more.
If you come to me and want just a chain, I will sell you just a chain. But I will also tell you to be careful be cause it may skip if there is other drivetrain wear.
Hey, Samdabikinman, It was not the bike shop trying to really stick it, but, horror of horrors, Colorado Cyclist, the bane of every bike shop trying to make a liveable margin. I manage the service department of a bike shop and I am not trying to get rich. Most of my customers(That have full time jobs) make two to three times what I do. I just want to make an OK living and have a good rep. providing good service.

I think the guy at the shop was just trying to be upfront. I get crap like that all the time, I'll tell people they need to replace more than one thing, and they get all defensive and angry and try to tell me I'm selling them more than they need. That makes me angry because I was only trying to help them out, and I always make it a point to help my customers save money.

Colorado Cyclist was way off the rocker though, no doubt about that.

Just to let you know the reason the vet squeezed the cats belly is to check the kidneys as cats are very prone to renal problems as they age. I am sure he also checked the gums and other things. Also when I worked at the vet we would see problems with vaccines from the clinics and such not protecting animals but this was more of a problem with dogs than cats.

If the cat's "check-up" included just a squeeze of the belly, that's probably not enough... I don't have cats, but when I take my dog for her annual visit (including shots), it involves blood work, poop sample, and a very thorough going-over. Costs a lot more than $25, too...

As for annual vaccines, I know that some vets say that the rabies vaccine, for one, is probably really sufficient for two or three years, but as long as state laws require annual vaccinations, that's what they'll do. And I'm sure they don't mind the reliable soruce of income...

$25 is very reasonable for a cat checkup. The belly squeeze would be to check for lumps, tumors or kidney problems as MattC suggested.
I think the guy at the bike shop was trying to make a sale, but giving good advice at the same time. I have a hard time believeing he absolutely could not sell you a chain without a cassette. Suggesting you change it is good advice but requiring you to do so is bad business.

Regarding vets making money, I called a reputable animal vaccine direct mail provider, Omaha Vaccine, and tried to order annual shots for my cat. They said I would have to buy ten doses. I told them I only needed one dose. They said they had to sell me ten, because the veterinarians lobby in D.C. got a law passed that mandates a minimum of ten doses. Obviously, the vets are trying to stop pet owners from going around them and buying vaccines direct at much lower prices. A vet once told me that the vaccines you get through the mail are no good -- the dose spoils enroute, even though they are packed in ice and shipped next day delivery. So the next time I received a shipment, I met the FedEx guy at his truck. He handed me my box, and I noticed right beside mine was another box from a vaccine provider directed to the same vet! So the vet gets his vaccine the same way I get mine -- overnight, shipped in ice. So the argument that the vaccine arrives spoiled is not valid. I never thought I could administer shots to my dogs and cats, but found out its really easy. You just grab the scruff of the neck and insert the needle. I have yet to have a cat or dog exhibit any pain or make a fuss when the needle went in. I have four dogs. When I called the vet to see how much it would cost to have all four vaccinated, he said $104. My cost for four doses through the direct supply house was $24, including overnight shipping and needles.

If your dog gets a severe vaccine related illness or reaction would you have the material to deal with it?

I wonder who on this forum does not work for a company, self, etc. that has no overhead, no retirment benefits, health ins. etc.to justify providing their company's service at cost or below cost?

Agreed it is a good idea for a pet to have an exam before being vaccinated. This is the problem. When I bring my dog in to see the vet, It always costs me near $200 for the exam, shots and various medications. The high vet costs will make it impossible for many people to adaquately care for their pets. I don't have an answer to this, being that many people also have difficulty paying for their own medical bills. When it comes to bikes, I do all of my own work, including the wheels.

cbhungry, from some of the posts you do get the feeling that a lot of people either are still living at home on an allowance or with a part time job or they went straight into the corporate world and have a job with no ties to company finances.
I love my pets and don't gripe about the bills because a vet spends twelve years learning stuff I don't know. I did feel a little faint after this last($700) trip.

Rev Chuck. You are quite right. I pay $25 dollars a month (£15)each for our two Hungarian Vizslas to be insured, but we have a £35 excess so it means that each routine visit to the vet has to be paid for.


When you put it into perspective as Sam has done, it's not a lot really

i'd hate to add up what it has cost us over the years, and sometimes I think our vet knows that we always want what's good for the dogs so we may get a bit of over prescription, but I'm like you. I'll find a way to pay for it.

Don't even ask me about the brake job on my pick-up yesterday.

Quoted price before I took it in $189-------price to drive my truck off the lot after the work was done $273.04-----sheeeesh.





This was the front brakes only and I didn't need new rotors or any of that------just a lot of BS about a rusty bolt.