Advocacy & Safety - Pedestrians

Pedestrians can sometimes be just as dangerous as cars. They will often walk out in front of you in the middle of a street without even looking. There is a major transit corridor in downtown Vancouver where only buses are supposed to go (Granville Street). People jaywalk here constantly and I have almost mowed a few down because they have literallys stepped out only inches in front of me without even looking or seeing me !! I did end up running into one woman once. I was coming down a steep hill...she walked off the curb just inches in front of me without looking. Fortunately, she wasn't hurt but was knocked to the ground.

She was shouting and swearing at me and told me she was going to call the police for reckless cycling on my part. Fortunately, I had two witnesses and one of them was an off duty cop who had seen the whole thing and came over immediately after the accident. He explained to her that she did not use due caution and that she was lucky that I had not been a car.

People are so stupid and careless. I really do try to cycle safely on the roads but I can't stop on a dime.

Justen

I love the ones that step out and then slow down when they get to the middle of the lane instead of pickin' up the pace a little to let car or bike traffic pass. Then they'll give the "I dare you" stare .. one of these days ....

Nevertheless, we have to remember that pedestrians *listen* for cars as much as they look for them, and this is a conditioned habit.

They don't hear us coming. That's why they're dangerous.

The distance you keep from parked cars to prevent dooring is just as important to avoid pedestrians emerging from parked cars. The denser the traffic, the more risky it is to ride too close to the parked cars. When peds see that traffic is slow or stopped, they won't expect a bike to come whizzing by along the curb or between the thru lane and the parking lane.

Yes, the peds are inattentive and unaware, but it's still the cyclist's responsibility to ride so as not to hit them.

The worst cycling injury I ever suffered was from a collision with a drunk, who apparently wanted to give me a big hug and came right at me. Bike/ped collisions are no fun for anybody.

RichC

Originally posted by Stor Mand
I love the ones that step out and then slow down when they get to the middle of the lane instead of pickin' up the pace a little to let car or bike traffic pass. Then they'll give the "I dare you" stare .. one of these days ....

Yeah..I know those ones ! :-(

Cabs and buses can be bad to because they sometimes let the passengers out on the right when you least expect it. i.e. they are not pulled up to the curb. The occupants just suddenly emerge from the car which is in the second lane and the door swings open into your lane. I almost ran right into guy who did that and he says
"Careful...cycle more responsibly. " God, I just wanted to run him over but fortunately for him, the lights turned green.

Maybe I should look into anger management training :-)

Justen

I tend to be QUITE vocal whwn it comes to peds (imagine that). I do this because almost 300 lbs of me, my bike, and whatever crap I have with me moving at about 20 mph would make one heck of a mess out of someone stupid or unfortunate enough to step off a curb in front of me. However people don't understand physics. I'm not a car so why worry? morons

Raiyn,

Even though I am only 5"4 and 130 lbs, when I am on my bike and moving at 20-30 km/hr or down a hill, I imagine that both myself and a pedestrian could suffer serious injury if they were to suddenly step out in front of me. It doesn't take much momentum just knock somebody over at that speed. Simple physics.

People are just stupid. I will yell at them if they start to step in front of me. It usually startles them enough to freeze in their tracks and I can just swerve around them but sometimes they just suddenly walk right out in front without looking and I have to brake hard to avoid hitting them if I don't have room to swerve around them. I would of course feel terrible if I did injure anybody but I think the pedestrians have some responsibility as well. I am sick of jamming on my brakes to avoid these morons.

Fortunately, these disk brakes make quite a racket in the rain and scare the s*** out of some people but I usually have to resort to yelling - WATCH OUT !!! Forget saying excuse me.

Justen

I find that HEY usually works but sometimes I have to let fly with a stream of expletives that would make a Navy Chief Petty Officer blush.

For some reason pedestrians seem to have this notion that you can stop on a dime, or that if you do crash into them, it won't hurt like a car collision.

What annoys me are the morons who just wander across the street without even looking. And the other day, a group of women crossed the street in front of us. Not only were they moving agonizingly slowly, but they stopped to talk and smoke cigarettes in the middle of the street! They probably figured, oh, cyclists don't REALLY matter. The other day, some halfwit wandered across a busy intersection WITHOUT EVEN LOOKING until I yelled at the top of my lungs WATCH IT!

What do these people think, that I'll just stop in the middle of the intersection at risk of my own life and limb???Duhhhh.....

Originally posted by Justen
People are so stupid and careless. I really do try to cycle safely on the roads but I can't stop on a dime.

I just don't worry about pedestrians. I try to cycle legally and safely. But I can't control what pedestrians do when they act illegally or stupidly.

I'm 230 or so pounds. If I hit a pedestrian while cycling, they are going to be seriously injured, no question about that. But as insensitive as it might sound, that's their problem if they decide to jaywalk in front of me. That's the chance you talk (wandering out in front of a big body) when you do that.

If you jaywalk and get run over by a cyclist, you have no one to blame but yourself. That's why there are crosswalks and you're supposed to otherwise cross at corners.

That's true jatkins. I am not taking responsibility for people who jaywalk and who do not take any precautions to prevent injury to themselves or others. As far as I am concerned, they are risking my safety when they don't pay attention and I could be hurt just as badly, if not worse.

If I hit 'em, I hit 'em and that's it. The thing is that non-cyclists seem to think that we can stop instantly or that we can swerve to avoid things. In most cases I can but in some, it is just impossible and it angers me to no end when others have no respect or care for anybody elses safety, let alone their own.

What's even worse is when people let their little tiny kids or dogs wander around on the path and then freak out when you just about mow them down coming around a blind corner or something. Children don't know any better and it is up to their parents to ensure their safety....but I would be devastated if I seriously injured a young child because the idiot parents weren't supervising or protecting him/her properly !!!!

As for adults, I woudln't want to hurt anybody but if they do something stupid like jaywalk, they deserve to get hurt.

Justen

Originally posted by Justen
What's even worse is when people let their little tiny kids or dogs wander around on the path and then freak out when you just about mow them down coming around a blind corner or something. Children don't know any better and it is up to their parents to ensure their safety....but I would be devastated if I seriously injured a young child because the idiot parents weren't supervising or protecting him/her properly !!!!

As for adults, I woudln't want to hurt anybody but if they do something stupid like jaywalk, they deserve to get hurt.

About to mow down an adult or small child, I will try just as hard to avoid an accident, let me make that clear. Even if I tried, I don't think I could not try to avoid an accident, your reactions just take over.

But when it gets dicey is when you're in traffic. If it comes down to swerving out to miss a jaywalker or mowing him down because of traffic on the other side of me, that's easy: the jaywalker is going to get it. And regardless of what unreasonable beliefs people might have about what cyclists can do and how fast they can stop, they can have them all they want. It doesn't change the laws of physics.

As far as kids and dogs, I'll still try to avoid them if I can. But there is only so much you can do. I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for hitting one when they're walking/wandering where they shouldn't be and an accident can't be helped. Neither young children nor dogs are capable of protecting themselves and don't understand rules. But if moron parents and dog owners insist on endangering their charges, there is little I can do about it and I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for parents/dog owners creating the situation.

I think I'm like the vast majority of cyclists: all I want to do is go out for my ride, obey the rules, be left alone, and mind my own business. If other people create dangerous situations for themselves or their charges because they can't follow rules or use common sense, then it certainly isn't my problem or fault.

Originally posted by jatkins679
About to mow down an adult or small child, I will try just as hard to avoid an accident, let me make that clear. Even if I tried, I don't think I could not try to avoid an accident, your reactions just take over.

But when it gets dicey is when you're in traffic. If it comes down to swerving out to miss a jaywalker or mowing him down because of traffic on the other side of me, that's easy: the jaywalker is going to get it. And regardless of what unreasonable beliefs people might have about what cyclists can do and how fast they can stop, they can have them all they want. It doesn't change the laws of physics.

As far as kids and dogs, I'll still try to avoid them if I can. But there is only so much you can do. I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for hitting one when they're walking/wandering where they shouldn't be and an accident can't be helped. Neither young children nor dogs are capable of protecting themselves and don't understand rules. But if moron parents and dog owners insist on endangering their charges, there is little I can do about it and I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for parents/dog owners creating the situation.

All I want to do is go out for my ride, obey the rules, be left alone, and mind my own business. If other people create dangerous situations for themselves or their charges because they can't follow rules or use common sense, then it certainly isn't my problem or fault.

I too would try everything to avoid any kind of impact but as you say, the laws of physics sometimes make that impossible and if morons are going to walk in front of you, there is not always a way to avoid them and they're going to get hurt...oh well !!! Their tough luck.

I am not saying that I would feel horribly guilty but I would of course still feel very bad if a child got hurt - even it is their moron parents fault for not protecting them.

Justen

I certainly would hate to hit a child, but the ONLY thing that I would regret about hitting an adult pedestrian that steps out in front of me (assuming that I am riding in compliance with the law, etc.) is that it would damage my ride.

A few weeks ago, I shouted at a guy who stepped on the road, into my path. He took my shout as a personal insult, instead of a warning of imminent danger, and started swearing at me.

The worst (best??) pedestrian encounter was when I was taking a sharp turn, over a speed cushion at the bottom of a hill, technically a tricky manouvre. The lights were in my favour, but all of a sudden 20-30 peds streamed onto the road. I managed to avoid all the old grannies, but could not avoid bouncing off a well upholstered young woman. Was she bouncy.

My faves are the young mums who push the pram out first!!

I wear a whistle around my neck to give folks a toot. Where I live, it seems that pedestrians tune out shouting, but a whistle gets their attention right away. It works because it's unusual.

Dan

I usually shout "heads up!" and try to use the same sharp tone as when I tell my dog "no!" Seems to work.

I have found the most effective means of getting peoples attention.

Instead of using your voices, buy a small but very LOUD whistle. It works!!! It draws many peoples attention like no other device. At times, a half of block away from my home I relized I've forgotten my whistle. Well, you know I made a U-turn. Now I have two. One stays on my bike and the other I keep with my roller blades. YOUR RIGHT!! PEOPLE ARE STUPID.. in and out of cars.

As cyclists, we must not forget, there are all kinds of variables on the road (that we are much aware of) that can turn a fabulous day into a freaking nightmare. If you don't have one, please buy a whistle and use it. You will be thanking your lucky stars and me later.. :beer:

Hmmm that whistle idea seems to be a real good one. I wonder how hard it would be to find a Hockey ref's whistle (It's worn like a ring.)

Originally posted by MichaelW
A few weeks ago, I shouted at a guy who stepped on the road, into my path. He took my shout as a personal insult, instead of a warning of imminent danger, and started swearing at me.

Happens all the time. Somehow for most people, the other guy is always in the wrong. Must be nice to live in that world.

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As for adults, I woudln't want to hurt anybody but if they do something stupid like jaywalk, they deserve to get hurt.
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Hi justen, this is just the right attitude that had been and is the cause for many accidents. Although pedestrians are at fault for not paying enough attention to the traffic, they pose a lesser threat to other motorists/pedestrians than alcholic and mobile-talking drivers.

We have been talking about the attitude of motorists towards bikers , but as bikers i think that we should be more yielding in our judgements against pedestrians. Lets think different from a few of our motorised(cars, trucks et al)counterparts who always sees cyclists/pedestrians as rocks/debris on the road.

I know that we all try to avoid collision with pedestrians because it might be harmful to both, but i have to agree that many motorists just do it because they think the pedestrians/cyclists deserve it, aint that bad.

regards
iluvbiking

Hi all,


Continuing on this thread, i think that if bikers(including motorcyclists) believe that if jaywalking poses a hazard to both bikers/pedestrians- i think its time we bikers start to think on what might be the better speed to avoid such things. I know this is not a very good idea but i would like to hear more on this as i do feel that pedestrians have a more take it easy attitude towards cyclists.

We all know that speed limits for automobiles on certain roads where there is a high incidence of pedestrian/children traffic has been framed accordingly, hence we are bound by the law and common sense that we need to go at a pace(no matter what the speed limit is) to avoid any accident involving two of the most simple forms of transport vehicles :). I would like to see more exclusive bike paths that restricts pedestrians and help bikers to use them for power biking or whatever it is that might help them burn their calories.

regard
iluvbiking

There are many times when speed has no relevance. If a pedestrian steps out suddenly in front of you at any speed when they are jaywalking or not looking they stand to get hit - HARD. That is a consequence of their negligence...NOT mine.

Children do a better job of looking both ways before crossing and are taught to do so by adults. So why then is it so difficult for people to continue this behaviour into adulthood ?

Justen

Originally posted by iluvbiking
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As for adults, I woudln't want to hurt anybody but if they do something stupid like jaywalk, they deserve to get hurt.
---------------------------

Hi justen, this is just the right attitude that had been and is the cause for many accidents. Although pedestrians are at fault for not paying enough attention to the traffic, they pose a lesser threat to other motorists/pedestrians than alcholic and mobile-talking drivers.



Whatever ! If some moron walks right in front of me without looking and I can't stop..too bad for them. What am I supposed to do ? Swerve directly into traffic to avoid them and end up getting seriously hurt or killed ?!

We have seen that happen before - cyclists trying to avoid being doored and end up getting hit by buses. Forget it.

If you jaywalk and don't pay attention, you could get hit by anything. You take the risk, you pay the price.

I do everything I can to avoid a collision and have fortunately not gotten killed in doing so.

I know we have to accept these risks as cyclists but really - if they decide to amble across a busy road against traffic and against the law, they have to accept the consequences for doing so.

Justen

Originally posted by iluvbiking
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Although pedestrians are at fault for not paying enough attention to the traffic, they pose a lesser threat to other motorists/pedestrians than alcholic and mobile-talking drivers.



Oh yeah, one other thing - there can be a BIG difference between Alcoholic drivers and drunk drivers. Just being an Alcoholic does not necessarily mean you are a dangerous driver. Some Alcoholics have not had a drink for 20 years and still call themselves Alcoholics. They are no more a threat on the road than a regular driver unless they decide to drink and drive.

I am sure you meant drunk drivers but be sure that you are aware of the difference.

Justen

I would have to agree with Justen on the risks of riding on the road with too much care for jaywalking pedestrians. We may be riding with excessive care and attention towards sidewalk users, but no-one is looking out for the careful cyclist.
Ive had cars try to under-take me when I was riding wide to avoid peds jumping out at well kown hotspots and can tell you how frightening it is to have a car zoom up on your inside with inches to spare.
Now I ride with just normal care and attention and my "primary directive" is to avoid getting myself hit.

Originally posted by Raiyn
Hmmm that whistle idea seems to be a real good one. I wonder how hard it would be to find a Hockey ref's whistle (It's worn like a ring.)
I have kept a whistle in my teeth while cycling for years. It works.

I keep it ready in my teeth. The time wasted trying to fiddle with it in an emergency is the time you might need to save your life. Also, in an emergency, you want your hands on the brakes, not off the handlebars.

I think it's rather fashionable. I feel naked without it.

:p

Seriously, here's how it's saved me:

1) Drivers entering my street into my path.
2) Drivers opening car doors into my path.
3) Drivers turning left in front of me.
4) Drivers squeezing me and passing too closely.
5) Drivers on cell phones who aren't paying attention.
6) Scaring women and children walking to school and causing heart attacks among the elderly.

:D

Originally posted by Pete Clark
I have kept a whistle in my teeth while cycling for years. It works.

6) Scaring women and children walking to school and causing heart attacks among the elderly.

:D

I like this idea of having a whistle - although I would enjoy it most with those idiotic, non-attentive pedestrians who walk out in front of you suddenly or the absent minded drivers who are throwing open their door or talking on the phone without watching what is going on around them.

If it causes a heart attack - oh well - better them getting it than me getting killed !

I know that sounds incredibly selfish but when you're out there on a 30 lb bike verses dozens of multi-ton vehicles, you tend to feel somewhat protective of your safety right ? :-)

Justen

I just yell out "I hit jaywalkers" never had to but it sure makes them pay attention to me. :p