Folding Bikes - Tikit To Ride

http://www.bikefriday.com/tikit

Check out this link for more info about the new tikit. On the page, look for additional links to videos demostrating such actions as:

"...You can watch videos of it being folded and unfolded. There are now also videos of being folded while waiting for the train, being folded to get on the bus, and being folded in the middle of the street. I know that last one seems impractical but it sure makes a statement about the fleet fold!"-from the tikit's web page

Thanks and have you seen THIS (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=255574) thread :p

Posted by folder fanatic on the Dahon forums 1/24/07:

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"I thought all of you would like peek at this new somewhat tiny folding bike from Bike Friday called (drumroll please) the tikit.

http://video. google.com/ videoplay? docid=-625842434 4919645414& q=tikit (video only copy & paste to brower)

On their blog, they prefer to call it a "tikit" with a little "t." I guess the big capital letter one is too pretentious (Bike Fridays are expensive bikes anyway even without the play on wording):

Dahon or Brompton has nothing to fear since their bikes are already firmly entrenched within the world of folding bikes and have their own loyal followers (and purchasers)."
---------------------------------------------------

:rolleyes:

I think the reason they like the little 't' is as they state - because they like palindromes and it technically isn't with an upper-case 'T'.

Update-More announcements of the tikit:

http://www.bikefriday.com/images/email/1325-tikitfeb07/

http://www.bikefriday.com/mission

http://www.bikefriday.com/tikit

Check out this link for more info about the new tikit. On the page, look for additional links to videos demostrating such actions as:

"...You can watch videos of it being folded and unfolded. There are now also videos of being folded while waiting for the train, being folded to get on the bus, and being folded in the middle of the street. I know that last one seems impractical but it sure makes a statement about the fleet fold!"-from the tikit's web page

It's funny when you see the picture of the bike inside a shopping carriage. At the bottom, it states, you don't need a lock to go shopping! Unfortunately, you'll need to pull TWO shopping carts as the bike took up all the room in the first! :)

I like the bike and it certainly rocks. I wish Bike Friday would make some of their 20' inch folders with that fast fold.

Heading down to Eugene to visit Bike Friday tomorrow - should be interesting.

Co-Motion is also in same area I think.

Heading down to Eugene to visit Bike Friday tomorrow - should be interesting.

Co-Motion is also in same area I think.
I envy you. Have a good trip!

15"x24"x35"...No heavy lifting - it's under 25 lbs, and you can push it along on its own wheels like a cart (or 'trolley' if you live outside the USA)...How fast is the fold?...5 seconds flat. No fiddly quick releases, latches or 12-step program to fold it. And no dangly bits either, it's all connected for fumble-free folding...It's close (to a custom Bike Friday). The tikitTM comes in 21 size configurations, fitting riders from 4'6 to 6'6", and up to 255 lbs. Our towering IT manager Matt Jarvis was able to ride it with ease and safety, using a heavier gauge stem for bigger riders...We use chromoly steel because 'steel is real' - repairable anywhere in the world, and gives the solid ride not generally found in folding bicycles. Several gearing and componentry options are planned for the future, just like you've come to expect from Bike Friday, but for now, we're keeping it beautifully simple with 8 speeds, and just one stock color: Black Diamond...The tikitTM was made for city dwellers who need a way to get to and from the subway, train or bus in their daily lives, with no folding fluffups. When slipped into its 'nup, it ain't a bicycle' soft bag, it should glide effortlessly past surly 'no bikes in here, buddy' building managers. It was also made for private pilots, RVers and boaters who want to get from their landing pad or dock to the clubhouse or grocery store and have a bike that folds into the precise and confined spaces of their craft...We've had Bike Friday staff test it on all modes of public transport, slide it under their desks at work, do serious retail therapy and grocery shopping...Retail price: $1195 -from the article from the first link above on Post #5

My observations: I don't think that this bike is so different from any other bike before it. For a 16 inch wheel folder the folded size is huge-far bigger than my own Piccolo and Brompton. I wheel my Piccolo about like a trolley already. The weight is nothing to brag about. As for the folded package, my Brompton has a rear suspension system that "floats" and does not latch together. Besides, I am not in a race for my life. In the field, I can (and done so) fold any of my present bikes as a bus approuches then board without waiting for me to finish. The bike frame is not customized for each person-although it's steel frame is attractive and is able to be cold pressed and shaped into accepting any drivetrain you like-just like any of my steel frame bikes can and have done in the past. This bike is really expensive starting at $1195 US dollars and an unproven model. I think that I stick with a Brompton.

My observations: I don't think that this bike is so different from any other bike before it. For a 16 inch wheel folder the folded size is huge-far bigger than my own Piccolo and Brompton. I wheel my Piccolo about like a trolley already. The weight is nothing to brag about. As for the folded package, my Brompton has a rear suspension system that "floats" and does not latch together. Besides, I am not in a race for my life. In the field, I can (and done so) fold any of my present bikes as a bus approuches then board without waiting for me to finish. The bike frame is not customized for each person-although it's steel frame is attractive and is able to be cold pressed and shaped into accepting any drivetrain you like-just like any of my steel frame bikes can and have done in the past. This bike is really expensive starting at $1195 US dollars and an unproven model. I think that I stick with a Brompton.

Agreed.

That is a huge fold and you'll notice it takes up two spots in the back of the bus! It's probably slightly faster than a Brompton and certainly the Piccolo but this is a commuter bike.

I can fold my Presto in under 15 seconds and that's good enough for 99% of multimode use. What's more important than folding speed is the lack of a chainguard, fenders or suspension seat post or Brooks Champion Flyer.

... the lack of ... suspension seat post or Brooks Champion Flyer.
Many folding bikes lack these.

My observations: I don't think that this bike is so different from any other bike before it.

Well, it’s not exactly reinventing the wheel, but the cable-fold looks ingenious and it is unlike any other small-wheeled folder on the market in this respect.


For a 16 inch wheel folder the folded size is huge-far bigger than my own Piccolo and Brompton.

True, but on par with a 20” folder. Hopefully the ride will compensate for the larger folded size...



The weight is nothing to brag about.

But at 11kg or so, nothing to unduly worry your muscles and joints, particularly as it looks very easy to wheel.


The bike frame is not customized for each person-although it's steel frame is attractive and is able to be cold pressed and shaped into accepting any drivetrain you like-just like any of my steel frame bikes can and have done in the past.

If they are soon to be offering fixed and hub-geared models the frame is customizable…What’s more, I think it is great that they want to know your measurements in order to get the best fit.



This bike is really expensive starting at $1195 US dollars and an unproven model. I think that I stick with a Brompton.

If no one had bought and supported A Ritchie’s innovative Brompton in the 80s, I doubt you would be riding your trusty steed now.

I am waiting for the UK distributor to pull its finger out, as my Trek Fixed folder is showing signs of age...

I don't think that this bike is so different from any other bike before it.

I don't know, I think I agree with Fear. The fast fold is the most outstanding feature. The fold looks like it is probably even faster than the Strida (looks like about on par with the Strida if you don't fold the handlebars). As far as the weight goes, it's definitely lighter than most 16" folders. As light as the nonTi Bromptons.

The only real criticism is the size, but if it rides as well as Bike Friday is boasting then that seems like a decent tradeoff. The price is similar to Brompton's M6RPlus (at least here in the US). When you look at it that way, you're basically trading folding size for folding speed, an internal hub for a better ride (not that everyone prefers hubs, but they are more expensive than derailleurs), and you get a custom fit for free.

If I were a bike snob then I'd definitely being going for this bike because I think folding speed is more important than folding size, but it just doesn't seem worth the money to buy a folder that tries to be both unobtrusive and ride like a real bike (like the Brompton and the tikit) when I could get a folder that rides like a real bike (Downtube) and a folder that's unobtrusive (Strida) with money to spare for upgrades and repairs.

The tikit came out just when I was deciding between spending a lot for a Brompton, or economizing with a Dahon Curve. If it were one year later, riders had been sending in rave reviews, and BF had just come out with a Nexus 8 version at the same price, the tikit would be have been more of a temptation.

As it is, well it's an interesting new design. I look forward to seeing rider reports here and on the Bike Friday Yak, but for now I'm happy to let others try it out. And I really have no plans to buy any more folders for a long time. I just got a Curve D3 as a "take anywhere" model, and that's it for now. There are other people here with more folders than I've got, but we all have to draw the line somewhere.

The tikit is not custom fitted exactly, as far as I can tell, but it does come in different frame sizes, so you should be able to get close. Is this wrong?

Yes, there's the perennial tradeoff with folders, ride quality vs. everything else. For those planning to use it on trains and buses, you'd actually have to take it on a few in your area to see if it was too bulky. Probably no worse than some of the other packages some people take on board, but it isn't super small.

I understand some of the comments; although I think that there are important caveats.

Yes, the frame is not custom sized ... but it comes in 21 size configurations. And chances are if you really needed something special they would do it for you.

At the moment, there are few drivetrain options; but if you wait a bit (hopefully not a year like another forum member) then you can get a lot of flexibility.

Folded size is an issue. It appears to be an easy roller. But I really don't have much to add to prior comments.

My big issue with the Brompton/Merc--and I have written this before--is the limited gear range and the lack of ergonomic flexibility. There are a few other annoying things; but that is fodder for another thread. The tikit addresses this but at the price of a big fold. Before I plop $1200 on a tikit, I think that I will test out the Downtube mini first and make the necessary modifications.

The Tikit reminds me a bit of when Mercedes first came out with a small car years ago for people who wouldn't be caught dead in a Toyota: "Now you can have a small car without the stigma of a small price."

I'm not sure what gear system they use, but if it's a Capreo it seems to cost more than a hub, at least on a Downtube Mini, so maybe the hub version will cost the same.

I know BFs have a good ride, but if this is going to fold to the size of a 20" bike, there are several of those with good rides. And the new Dahon Curves with the Big Apple tires are supposed to ride well, too, and the and the DT Mini with the bit of rear suspension, and I could get any of those and a Thudbuster for a lot less than the Tikit. But this does give the loyal BF customers something a lot more practical for commuting than their regular BF models. Hope someone in my area gets one so I can try it out.

. . .I'm not sure what gear system they use, but if it's a Capreo it seems to cost more than a hub, at least on a Downtube Mini, so maybe the hub version will cost the same. . .

I suspect it's not a Capreo, since it's an 8 speed, and I think Capreo only comes in a 9. My guess would be lower end Shimano or SRAM, but you'd have to talk to BF sales to be sure, as it isn't on the web page.

I suspect it's not a Capreo, since it's an 8 speed, and I think Capreo only comes in a 9 ...

Yep, that is true. I do not know what the cassette is on the back of the tikit.

I got to ride one briefly yesterday - will report more on it in a bit - it has an 8-speed with twist shifter - don't know enough to have recognized the brand/model.

Seemed similar, ride wise to our Boardwalks D7's. More later this morning.

"Now you can have a small car without the stigma of a small price."

:lol:


I know BFs have a good ride, but if this is going to fold to the size of a 20" bike, there are several of those with good rides. And the new Dahon Curves with the Big Apple tires are supposed to ride well, too, and the and the DT Mini with the bit of rear suspension, and I could get any of those and a Thudbuster for a lot less than the Tikit. But this does give the loyal BF customers something a lot more practical for commuting than their regular BF models. Hope someone in my area gets one so I can try it out.

Yeah, but the difference in folding time combined with the rollability is huge. Brompton owners unfold their bikes to make it easier to carry; Tikit owners will probably fold their bikes to make it easier to carry. That's a big difference and the bikes you mentioned (curve, DT mini, etc) don't even come close in that regard.

Ok - here goes. It was raining off and on the way to and in Eugene yesterday - typical Oregon weather. It was that it was a very slow day, so we got Walter's full attention at Bike Friday, including a tour of the manufacturing area. Having worked in a similar-sized trailer furnace manufacturing company (with it's own machine shop) part-time during H.S. and early college, I found it very familiar.

We were shown and got to play with a Lt.Green tikit. It was an early model that they had then used to make their jigs. It had stopped raining, so I rode it a short distance on the bike path behind their facility.
It didn't feel markedly different than 20' wheels - this was my first time on a smaller than 20" folder. It had flex in the handle bars similar to my Dahon Boardwalk S1. The shifter had some clicks despite Walter's attempt to adjust them out. The ride overall seemed much like our 7-speed Boardwalks due to the presence of gears.

My wife says I looked a little more gangly on it than normal (I'm 6'3"/200 lbs) - more kidsbike-like than on a 20" model.

The folding process is just more "intricate" than our entry-level Dahons, to use a term. There are more parts to the frame (welded tubes and flanges) and it does not lock together when folded. The weight was a little less than our Dahons - wife could easily lift it off the ground with one hand (she's 5'8"/150) but you had to grab it in the right place or it would unfold on you.

The one thing that bothered me was the fact that the seat does not hook solidly in place when unfolded. I am used to lifting bikes over curbs, etc., by putting fingers under reay of seat and lifting. This didin't work as seat mast just started to move forward, which starts to release the cables that hold it together.

The "looped" or "dual cables" are brake cables according to Walter for easy replacement in the field. I am aasuming the two cables is for safety, and each is adjustable for tension down near the bottom bracket. IMO this part of the design needs to be proven in daily use.

In the shop they were still fine tuning the mfg process for these bikes - it did not look like they are being made in any numbers quite yet.

Disclaimer: I didn't take any notes or pictures, so I am doing this from memory.

I also rode a New World Tourist, and that was a very nice bike. Very stiff handle bars - felt like a big bike. Great shifters - one button for up and another for down. For someone who just graduated to a twist shifter from a click shifter and had "fitted" shifters on the two bikes prior to that - this was very, very smooth.

More on the Normal Bike Friday model later. We also went over to the Co-Motion factory and showroom about 2 miles away. Interesting to compare.

Continuation:

Thought of a couple of other comments on the tikit. It is not all that small when folded - lower but longer than our Dahons, I think. Also, there is a builtin bell! Had to get used to where it is as I kept ringing it while moving the bike outside to test ride. The "activitation ring" is where a twist shifter would be on the left handgrip. The actual bell is a brass colored cylinder just to the left of this activation ring. Was pretty cool for a comutter bike once I got used to it.

Our brief visit to Co-Motion, a couple of miles away was like entering a different world. Full sized biked, lots of them tandems and triples, sleek frames, live bright colors and the use of S&S Couplers to make some of them into travel bikes. The prices were even more atmospheric!

This was a new, bright, high-ceiling facility, vs BF's older lower building. They also sell almost 100% through a dealer network vs. direct. The bikes were sleeker, cleaner designs and had 'WOW' paint jobs in incredible colors. My wife said they looked like works of art - and I guess you could say they cost about the same.

I liked the New World Tourist with the flat handle bar - it was a very solid feeling bike, but being "casual recreational" riders, I don't think we could justify the $3,000 or so two adequately equipped ones would cost. Since we take them along when we camp with our small travel trailer, we actually spend more time folding and unfolding than going on long rides - we usually do 5-10 miles rides, not centuries.

We had a fun day in Eugene, and really liked the 40.5 MPG our Yaris Liftback achieved at 70+ MPH on the 266 mile roundtrip on I5.

Thanks Foldable Two for putting down your initial thoughts.

If the Tikit feels like riding a Boardwalk (no offence meant to all the Boardwalk owners on BF) I won't be getting one at that price...I'll only support innovation if it works for me!


From Walter at the BF Yak:
"So overall, the component spec and level is a lot like the Metro or the Pocket Tourist We wanted to keep the rear derailleur from hanging way down, so we're using a SRAM microshift set up. Flat bars, right side has one GripShift, other side with twist shift bell. Fenders, folding pedals, basic saddle are included. Gearing is 52 x 11-28. Alex rims, Schwalbe tires."

I think the folding design is interesting and innovative, but would agree with comments regarding the inability to pick the bike up by the seat w/o starting the fold. Interesting that I couldn't find a spec page anywhere on the bike's web page, either; it would be nice to know what the componentry is.

Yeah, I agree that if it rides like the $200 boardwalk then it can't be worth $1200.

There is a wheel size difference between the tikit and the Boardwalk = 16" vs. 20"

Since my only point of reference are Dahon Boardwalks - a D7 (2005 Model) & an S1 (also a 2005) - that is the only comparison I can really make. I felt it was good that the tikit rode like a bike with 20" wheels.

From what we were told, the tikit is intended to be a multi-modal commuter's bike, not a world class tourer or racing bike.

Some of us have never had a bike that cost more than $250. in our lives. Our viewpoint and experience level are obviously a little different than the folks who have high priced machinery.

. . .
We were shown and got to play with a Lt.Green tikit. It was an early model that they had then used to make their jigs. It had stopped raining, so I rode it a short distance on the bike path behind their facility.
It didn't feel markedly different than 20' wheels . . .The ride overall seemed much like our 7-speed Boardwalks due to the presence of gears. . .

Thanks for the report. I'd like to visit the the BF facility some time, but I don't plan to be on the West Coast any time soon.

Did you try pushing the bike around at all the folded state? The pictures and YouTube videos make rather a point of this. If it wheels around easily like this, that would be a good selling point. In the pictures, people wheeling it around folded seem to be holding on to a handle of some kind at the rear. Can you tell us more about that?

I respect the Bike Friday brand; I have a couple. With the tikit, though, they're going to have to make a case for exactly what makes it worth three times more than a Speed D7. The fast fold and the ability to wheel it around folded are good talking points. If it has better components over all, and can be made to fit better, that would also be worth something. I don't know. They'll probably sell quite a few, but with this kind of bike, they're competing with decent low to mid-range Dahons and Downtubes that will get the job done for most people. Maybe they're going more after the Brompton market, people who won't balk at spending more that $1000 for a bike, but would like one with more of an individual fit. The speed of folding might make up for the fact that it doesn't fold as small.

Did you try pushing the bike around at all the folded state? The pictures and YouTube videos make rather a point of this. If it wheels around easily like this, that would be a good selling point. In the pictures, people wheeling it around folded seem to be holding on to a handle of some kind at the rear. Can you tell us more about that?

I didn't try it myself; Walter did it a bit; looked easy enough. The handle is - I think - the curved frame colored, sort of oval tube, that the latch cables run in. I not employed (therefore don't commute) but folding my Boardwalk and carrying it by the seat onto a MAXX train here in Portland would be no problem. I am 6'3" and athletic, though; my 5'8" wife can lift the Dahon with one hand (and the tikit, too - she tried it), but she wouldn't want to carry either of them around that way, so using the wheels would be nice. The problem I can see is if it's "bagged" - like we do our Dahons - aren't the wheels covered?



I respect the Bike Friday brand; I have a couple. With the tikit, though, they're going to have to make a case for exactly what makes it worth three times more than a Speed D7. The fast fold and the ability to wheel it around folded are good talking points. If it has better components over all, and can be made to fit better, that would also be worth something. I don't know. They'll probably sell quite a few, but with this kind of bike, they're competing with decent low to mid-range Dahons and Downtubes that will get the job done for most people. Maybe they're going more after the Brompton market, people who won't balk at spending more that $1000 for a bike, but would like one with more of an individual fit. The speed of folding might make up for the fact that it doesn't fold as small.

I think they are trying to extend the BF "cache" and go after the Brompton market segment, which is expanding. From what we were told, they would like the tikit to be more like an off-the-shelf Dahon rather than totally custom as are the 20" bikes.

Yeah, I agree that if it rides like the $200 boardwalk then it can't be worth $1200.

Maybe I should buy a boardwalk!

My guess is that you have to ride the bike hard to see the difference.

Dahons are not bad bikes in my opinion. But they do--except for a Mu I rode once--flex quite a bit from my 195 pounds going up a hill.

"...I respect the Bike Friday brand; I have a couple. With the tikit, though, they're going to have to make a case for exactly what makes it worth three times more than a Speed D7. The fast fold and the ability to wheel it around folded are good talking points. If it has better components over all, and can be made to fit better, that would also be worth something. I don't know. They'll probably sell quite a few, but with this kind of bike, they're competing with decent low to mid-range Dahons and Downtubes that will get the job done for most people. Maybe they're going more after the Brompton market, people who won't balk at spending more that $1000 for a bike, but would like one with more of an individual fit. The speed of folding might make up for the fact that it doesn't fold as small." -DaFriMon


Most people who are not bicycle enthusiasts (or bike nuts as my father would have said) would balk at spending "all that money on a bike?" So I do not think that is the market they are catering to. Actually, I am not sure what their target is. The market of serious folding bikers is already crowded with companies anxious to serve and prosper from them.

Actually, I am not sure what their target is. The market of serious folding bikers is already crowded with companies anxious to serve and prosper from them.

They write that their goal is for more people to use bicycles as their main transportation. Sounds like they are trying to target a wide audience.

You got to visit the Bike Friday factory AND the Co-Motion factory IN ONE DAY!? I am so jealous! That sounds like a vacation to me...

Chuckie

We hit McMenamin's North Bank (restaurant & pub) for lunch first. Had a wonderful view of the Willamette River. (We came here for a glass of wine after we got our daughter set-up in her dorm room for her first year at Univ of OR in 1985.)

So we didn't get to Bike Friday until the early afternoon. If we had started earlier we could have seen even more bike related places. Next time!

BF has added some more videos on the tikit to their site. Explains the fold in more detail, shows the "showercap" (a sort of slipcover), shows it being packed into, and unpacked from, a suitcase.

Damn, I shouldn't have watched those.

One thing which may not be a minor issue though: it looks likes it's going to be hard to use anything but flat (mountain) bars. Yet maybe a Dahon Revolve stem could be fitted. Hmmm.