have your Police tried this one?

[ken cummings]

Our area has quite a problem with unliceinsed drivers. So much so that often batches of them are run through the courts in the same session. When that happens the local and county officers may have spotters in the court-room passing descriptions to officers outside. When a violator with a suspended liceinse steps outside they watch to see if he or she get in a vehicle to drive away. Happens so often it is not funny. How does it matter to cyclists? Well, the second (or third or Nth) time around the driver will be in jail for a while making the roads a little safer for us. Conversly, the families of such people frequently end up on public assistance 'til the driver gets out of the hoosegow. I will see if our local Bikes for Kids program will consider a Bikes for Unliceinsed Drivers program.

[spry]

reward a felon with a bike............how about new velodomes inside the prisons too!

[Az B]

Our county is trying to make 3 tickets for unlicensed driving a felony, as we have the highest hit & run stats of any county in the nation. The police won't even come talk to you unless you have a plate number and/or there's an injury involved.

Naturally, the local Hispanic community action group is up in arms claiming that it's discrimination.

I would simply enjoy being safer on the roads, and I could care less what the ethnicity of the dangerous drivers is...

I think as soon as my daughter's out of high school, I'm moving to Switzerland or somewhere similar.

Az

[markf]

reward a felon with a bike............how about new velodomes inside the prisons too!

A lot of those people are driving without licenses because they have no other way to get to and from work. If handing them a bicycle will get them out of their cars then I'm in favor of handing them a bicycle.

[deputyjones]

A lot of those people are driving without licenses because they have no other way to get to and from work. If handing them a bicycle will get them out of their cars then I'm in favor of handing them a bicycle.

They are not driving because they don't have a bike. Most of the places these kind of people live (trashy apartment complexes, trailer parks) are littered with abandoned x-mart bikes. They drive because they are lazy and have no respect for the law. Give them a bike and it will either become part of the litter or sold for beer and/or dope.

[Roody]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.

[silversmith]

reward a felon with a bike............how about new velodomes inside the prisons too!

I'd rather them pedaling that drunkenly careening down the road in a beat up Ford.

---

I've had people ask if I lost my license since I started commuting by bike 2 years ago. Amazing.

[rajman]

Does the courthouse have a) housing within a 15 minute walk that is affordable for felons, b) a bus service that runs, c) light rail or a subway, d) reliable taxi service (don't laugh - a lot of places do not have this - Calgary is one). If none of these are available - either cycling or driving off are the only options. If I was convicted, I would argue that the lack of public transit was entrapment :)

[Az B]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.

I don't care if he's Mario freakin' Andretti, he can go take the test like everyone else. It's not hard, it's not expensive, and it doesn't take much time. What's the problem?

Statistically, someone is 100% less likely to get into a crash if they're licensed and insured.

Az

[Roody]

I don't care if he's Mario freakin' Andretti, he can go take the test like everyone else. It's not hard, it's not expensive, and it doesn't take much time. What's the problem?

Statistically, someone is 100% less likely to get into a crash if they're licensed and insured.

Az
Believe me, if I could get him in there I would do it. I don't understand the problem--except that his father hasn't had a license since 1969, and he's been in jail several times. So it runs in the family. At this point it would cost my friend something like $1200 to get his license. I just wanted to point out that some of the assumptions made about people without licenses are totally unwarranted. They aren't all lazy stupid drunken outlaws with trash on their front lawns. I hate it when people take that holier-than-thou attitude. (Not you--an earlier poster.)

[Shiznaz]

They are at least outlaws...

[CommuterRun]

They drive because they are lazy and have no respect for the law.
Agreed.
Getting a Driver License is rediculously easy and inexpensive in the U.S.

People like Tony cause, and in doing so, deserve, their own problems.

[N_C]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.

Did he just simply not get a liscense or is there a legal reason he can not have one? If not, why doesn't he go & get one? Especially if that is the only law he has ever broken & the fact he respects the law as you put it.

[digger]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.


Ok so he's a good driver and a good cyclist and he's not all that lazy and I agree, one should not stereotype.

He is still operating a motor vehicle without insurance or a valid drivers license. I don't care that he doesn't "respect the law that says you need a drivers license". If he is in a motor vehicle accident and someone (or himself) is hurt that person is left to pay for damaged property and/or medical bills because Tony "doesn't feel like" getting insurance or having a valid drivers license.

That, my friend, is a self centered, disrespectful, stupid attitude. He has a responsibility to others while on the road and having insurance to pay for those damages 'insures' that person is cared for. Unless, of course, Tony is quite wealthy and willing to pay for those damages....?

[yak]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.

Tony is 31, has never bothered to get a license, and has spent time in jail for not doing so... I'm sorry, but he is the Village Idiot.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Tony is 31, has never bothered to get a license, and has spent time in jail for not doing so... I'm sorry, but he is the Village Idiot.
As well as his good buddy making excuses for him.

[sbhikes]

Deputy Jones, what is it about immigrants and litter? Whatever happened to anti-litter laws? Why do they insist on trashing wherever they live or go? Why don't you guys ever crack down on them for littering and their slum landlords for never cleaning up their apartment complexes? I walk by one of them that's a total trash heap with broken windows and everything. You'd think somebody would crack down on the slum lord for this at least.

[CliftonGK1]

At what point will the legal system enact penalties that actually keep people from driving?
There was a news story up here in Seattle over the weekend about a woman on her 40-something-ith violation for driving on a suspended license. The court system has made the statement that they'll just continue to fine her when she's caught because it's too expensive to try and jail her. There are plenty of people driving around with a suspended license for any number of reasons: from the relatively harmless "failure to provide proof of insurance" to the deadly "multiple D.U.I." offenders.
Here's the real issue... Taking away someone's documentation of driving privileges is ineffective at stopping someone from driving. It's the equivalent of taking my degree off my wall and telling me to stop being smart.
Don't take away licenses. Take away vehicles. It's awfully tough to get a 2nd, 3rd... 15th D.U.I. (it's insane how many you can have, and still be allowed to drive,) when you don't have a car.

[Keith99]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.

So how does he get caught? Is the car also not registered. And of course he does not have insurance! So he takes out a cyclist or other car and the other driver is out of luck.

If he is such a great driver why no license? They are very easy to get. The tests are not hard.

Oh wait "that law just doesn't make sense to him'! Bet there are other laws that he doesn't think make sense. Wonder which ones.

[Roody]

He is still operating a motor vehicle without insurance or a valid drivers license. I don't care that he doesn't "respect the law that says you need a drivers license". If he is in a motor vehicle accident and someone (or himself) is hurt that person is left to pay for damaged property and/or medical bills because Tony "doesn't feel like" getting insurance or having a valid drivers license.
....?
Talk about assumptions. As far as I know, Tony has never driven an uninsured vehicle. In this state, the no-fault insurance goes with the vehicle, not the driver. Tony doesn't own a car. He stupidly drives his girlfriend's car or his parent's car, and they're stupid enough to let him do it. If he were involved in an accident, their insurance would cover Tony, the car and 3rd party damages. The other driver's insurance would cover damages to the 2nd car and occupants.

They are at least outlaws...

Or scofflaws.

Deputy Jones, what is it about immigrants and litter? Whatever happened to anti-litter laws? Why do they insist on trashing wherever they live or go? Why don't you guys ever crack down on them for littering and their slum landlords for never cleaning up their apartment complexes? I walk by one of them that's a total trash heap with broken windows and everything. You'd think somebody would crack down on the slum lord for this at least.

Off-topic troll. You've expressed your bigotry and prejudice on this forum many times before. Try reading the guidelines.

[Keith99]

Does the courthouse have a) housing within a 15 minute walk that is affordable for felons, b) a bus service that runs, c) light rail or a subway, d) reliable taxi service (don't laugh - a lot of places do not have this - Calgary is one). If none of these are available - either cycling or driving off are the only options. If I was convicted, I would argue that the lack of public transit was entrapment :)

You need to learn what entrapment is. This is about as far from it as you can get. Entrapement is when someone is lured into commiting a crime they would not otherwise have committed. In the case here someone got caught for driving withoiut a license.They are then stupid enough to drive to the courthouse without a license and then drive away, still without a license.

Far from entrapment. If someone drives without a license this is the one time you would expect them to make other arrangements. Rather than 'entrapment', this is just getting the very worst offenders.

[Roody]

Since 9/11, driver licenses have become de facto national ID cards. They have little magnetic stripes with your personal information on them. Any federal agent can access this personal information without a warrant. Another erosion of our personal liberties.

"Your papers please. Ve must see your papers."

[Keith99]

Talk about assumptions. As far as I know, Tony has never driven an uninsured vehicle. In this state, the no-fault insurance goes with the vehicle, not the driver. Tony doesn't own a car. He stupidly drives his girlfriend's car or his parent's car, and they're stupid enough to let him do it. If he were involved in an accident, their insurance would cover Tony, the car and 3rd party damages. The other driver's insurance would cover damages to the 2nd car and occupants.



Knowingly alowing an unlicensed driver to operate your vehicle may void the insurance, or it may cover those injured but allow the insurance company to come after the cars owners to recover any payout thay made. Tony's girlfriend and parents would do well to make sure what the law is in their state.

[bsstockwell]

My best friend Tony is 31 and has never had a license. He's been caught several times, and went to jail the last time. He's a fantastic driver and he never got in trouble for any other traffic violation. He doesn't drink and he isn't all that lazy, in spite of what Deputy Jones (the village idiot) says above. I think he has respect for the law, other than the law that says you need a license to drive a car. Somehow, that law just doesn't make any sense to him!

Oh--he's also the best cyclist I've ever seen. He can literally dance on a bike, and make it do other things it shouldn't be able to do.


Uh, he can't be that great of a driver IF HE'S BEEN CAUGHT SEVERAL TIMES. He must have been doing something wrong to be pulled over. Let me guess...the stop sign didn't make any sense to him.

[saraflux]

They are not driving because they don't have a bike. Most of the places these kind of people live (trashy apartment complexes, trailer parks) are littered with abandoned x-mart bikes. They drive because they are lazy and have no respect for the law. Give them a bike and it will either become part of the litter or sold for beer and/or dope.

...and people wonder why there are so many of "those kind" of people in jails.
why should they have respect for a legal system that continually assumes that they are "those kind of people" simply because of where they live? it's a viscious cycle and (viscious) cops who assume this kind of superior attitude are part of the problem. i bet you routinely stop young black males and keep everyone safe from "those kinds of people" too. kudos to you sir.

[saraflux]

Deputy Jones, what is it about immigrants and litter? Whatever happened to anti-litter laws? Why do they insist on trashing wherever they live or go? Why don't you guys ever crack down on them for littering and their slum landlords for never cleaning up their apartment complexes? I walk by one of them that's a total trash heap with broken windows and everything. You'd think somebody would crack down on the slum lord for this at least.

what is it about self-righteous white people and assuming that anyone who isn't visibly moneyed is a piece of $hit.
thanks for validating my disgust towards privelidged white folks who have no clue.
that slum lord avoids doing anything so that he can eventually sell his "trashy" complex to the city when they gentrify the area and send the residents off to the homeless shelter.
all so you can feel superior since youre not an "immigrant".

(i apologize if you were being sarcastic, but this kind of blatant racism makes me sick to my stomach)

[kemmer]

what is it about self-righteous white people and assuming that anyone who isn't visibly moneyed is a piece of $hit.
thanks for validating my disgust towards privelidged white folks who have no clue.
that slum lord avoids doing anything so that he can eventually sell his "trashy" complex to the city when they gentrify the area and send the residents off to the homeless shelter.
all so you can feel superior since youre not an "immigrant".

(i apologize if you were being sarcastic, but this kind of blatant racism makes me sick to my stomach)

+1


I think a good option would be to impound the offenders vehicle and provide a bicycle at no cost. The impound fees should be kept low enough that the offender can afford get the car back at the end of the suspension, but high enough to pay for the use of the bikes.

For non repeat offenders, this should be optional. My friend/co-worker got a DUI and I drove him to and from work in his car. He never drove his car while his license was suspended. Many people have spouses and friends that can drive them places, and they should be allowed to keep their car if it is bieng used lawfully.

In the case of repeat offenders, it should be mandatory. These people are obviously not finding alternative transportation, and the use of their car is illegal. Take the car, give them a bike.

[Roody]

Knowingly alowing an unlicensed driver to operate your vehicle may void the insurance, or it may cover those injured but allow the insurance company to come after the cars owners to recover any payout thay made. Tony's girlfriend and parents would do well to make sure what the law is in their state.
Correct, the insurance company has to pay, but they'll probably come after the owner and the driver for recompensation.

[Roody]

+1


I think a good option would be to impound the offenders vehicle and provide a bicycle at no cost. The impound fees should be kept low enough that the offender can afford get the car back at the end of the suspension, but high enough to pay for the use of the bikes.

For non repeat offenders, this should be optional. My friend/co-worker got a DUI and I drove him to and from work in his car. He never drove his car while his license was suspended. Many people have spouses and friends that can drive them places, and they should be allowed to keep their car if it is bieng used lawfully.

In the case of repeat offenders, it should be mandatory. These people are obviously not finding alternative transportation, and the use of their car is illegal. Take the car, give them a bike.
It might be cheaper to give them a driver's licence instead of a bike.

[CommuterRun]

what is it about self-righteous white people and assuming that anyone who isn't visibly moneyed is a piece of $hit.
thanks for validating my disgust towards privelidged white folks who have no clue.
that slum lord avoids doing anything so that he can eventually sell his "trashy" complex to the city when they gentrify the area and send the residents off to the homeless shelter.
all so you can feel superior since youre not an "immigrant".

(i apologize if you were being sarcastic, but this kind of blatant racism makes me sick to my stomach)
Trash is color-blind, it can be white too. I could be living proof if a couple of key decisions I made early in my adult life had been decided the other way.

[kemmer]

It might be cheaper to give them a driver's licence instead of a bike.

Huh? Cheaper for who, the community or the offender?

[kemmer]

Trash is color-blind, it can be white too.

Yeah, but sbhikes specifically complains about "immigrants." I don't think it's any big mystery what color of skin immigrants in question have. Duh.

[CommuterRun]

Depends on where they're emigrating from, now doesn't it? Why are you assuming they're not from Scandinavia or Japan?

Are you and saraflux stereotyping? Du-uh, righ back at'cha.

[trackhub]

Un-licensed drivers have become a huge problem in Eastern Massachusetts. More often than not, they are in and out of the district court system within minutes. Then, they get into their cars and drive away.

Some legislators have filed bills that would enact very strict laws regarding this, but none have made it very far through the legislative process.

I don't know what has happened here. In the 70's, getting caught driving without a license in this state was very serious, and would result in an arrest and jail time.

[kemmer]

Depends on where they're emigrating from, now doesn't it? Why are you assuming they're not from Scandinavia or Japan?

Are you and saraflux stereotyping? Du-uh, righ back at'cha.

Like I said, it's no big mystery that we aren't talking about immigrants from Scandinavia or Japan. Gimme a break.

[Roody]

Depends on where they're emigrating from, now doesn't it? Why are you assuming they're not from Scandinavia or Japan?

Are you and saraflux stereotyping? Du-uh, righ back at'cha.
Wrong back at'cha. sbhikes has written several previous bigoted posts about Mexican immigrants. These are brown people, like my stepson.

Besides, why would the statement be less bigoted if it were about some other group? Prejudice is prejudice, whatever color the victim is. Unless she's a Native American, sbhikes's ancestors were also immigrants, and they probably had ways that were unacceptable to the people who got here before them.

[Roody]

Huh? Cheaper for who, the community or the offender?
Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant that it might be cheaper for the community to give the offender a license instead of a bike.

[Keith99]

Unless she's a Native American, sbhikes's ancestors were also immigrants, and they probably had ways that were unacceptable to the people who got here before them.

Even for the "Native Americans" if yuo go back far enough they migrated here. But they were here millenia before the rest of us. The 'classic' mexican gets his brown from those same Native Americans, by comparison making the rest of us pure bred late comers.

[rajman]

You need to learn what entrapment is. This is about as far from it as you can get. Entrapement is when someone is lured into commiting a crime they would not otherwise have committed. In the case here someone got caught for driving withoiut a license.They are then stupid enough to drive to the courthouse without a license and then drive away, still without a license.

Far from entrapment. If someone drives without a license this is the one time you would expect them to make other arrangements. Rather than 'entrapment', this is just getting the very worst offenders.

The point is - if you are required to get to the courthouse and it takes a 15 hour walk to get there - you will be forced to drive. Perhaps you suggest that the scofflaw should flag a police car or call 911 to have this done - good luck with that :)

BTW I don't really think it's entrapment, only tantamount to it. Courthouses should only be acessible by walking, if they will be trying cases where people lose their driver's licence :p

[Roody]

Even for the "Native Americans" if yuo go back far enough they migrated here. But they were here millenia before the rest of us. The 'classic' mexican gets his brown from those same Native Americans, by comparison making the rest of us pure bred late comers.
True, but in the case of the Native Americans, there wasn't anybody already here to judge them and put them down. Other than the grizzly bears and saber-tooth tigers.

[mlts22]

Our county is trying to make 3 tickets for unlicensed driving a felony, as we have the highest hit & run stats of any county in the nation. The police won't even come talk to you unless you have a plate number and/or there's an injury involved.

Naturally, the local Hispanic community action group is up in arms claiming that it's discrimination.

I would simply enjoy being safer on the roads, and I could care less what the ethnicity of the dangerous drivers is...

I think as soon as my daughter's out of high school, I'm moving to Switzerland or somewhere similar.

Az
I know it is good to get "tough on crime", but it seems a bit harsh to permanently ban someone from ever getting any type of job outside of Mcdonalds, vote, or do 99% of what people need to do in life because they didn't pay the local DMV for a plastic card? A felony on someone's record is almost a death condemnation -- pretty much 100% of all employers who are interviewing a candidate and see the box on a job application that reads "Do you have any felony convictions?" checked will immediately shred the resume, and escort the candidate out with armed guards. Renting an apartment? Most places have a clause in the contract that says that a felony conviction is an immediate eviction.

Felonies should be reserved for things that deserve to be felonies, like assault, murder, rape, armed robbery, or major crimes against other people's property, not forgetting to keep one's papers in order. We in the US have enough people in prison for long, long times for nonviolent crimes... the last thing we need to do is add more people to our overcrowded prison system, which only forces the taxpayers to pay more. Regardless of the presence or absence of a drivers license, if a person is holding down a job and not breaking other laws, our society as a whole benefits.

Make no driver's license a civil offense with a steep fine that can't be forgiven in bankruptcy, but can be paid over time. If someone drives without a license, that's their perogative, but they are going to pay a big wad of cash every time they are caught and put in jail for 3-12 months per charge.

I say hit them where it hurts -- in the pocketbook, but don't take away the person's ability to earn money and be a useful part of society... then you may end up with someone who ends up comitting more crimes. Putting someone in jail is one thing, denying them any hope of a future is another.

Crimes have punishments, and not having a piece of paper should get the same punishment as "real" (mala en se[1]) felonies get.

This is all assuming the person isn't in a wreck or injuring others, of course.

[1]: IANAL.

[kemmer]

Sorry for the ambiguity. I meant that it might be cheaper for the community to give the offender a license instead of a bike.

If the impound fees on the car pay for the bike, how is it cheaper to give back a license?

[deputyjones]

...and people wonder why there are so many of "those kind" of people in jails.
why should they have respect for a legal system that continually assumes that they are "those kind of people" simply because of where they live? it's a viscious cycle and (viscious) cops who assume this kind of superior attitude are part of the problem. i bet you routinely stop young black males and keep everyone safe from "those kinds of people" too. kudos to you sir.

I am very sorry I made you angry with my gross generalization, which I realize it was, but let me give you some background. I grew up in "trashy apartment complexes" in the south suburbs of Chicago, and, although I never lived in a trailer park, I did live in a trailer in rural CT as a kid too. So I am very firmiliar, outside of my work, with these places. I realized they were trashy when I lived there, and so did my parents, but that was our lot in life.

When I was referring to "those kind of people" I was referring to the criminals who continue to commit their crimes day after day with no regard for the law. I have had contact with hundreds of said people and those are the places that 99% of them live. It is unfortunate given the extra stresses of economic hardship facing the non-criminal element that live there that they now have to live among these criminals, but it is the truth nonetheless. Any other inference you placed upon my statements was placed there by you, but if I offended you I apologize. I did not intend to, and I have not, nor do I ever intend to, oppress anyone based on their socio-economic status.

CASE IN POINT: First call I am dispatched to (meaning I was sent there. I did not volunteer.) today was a 23 year old young woman who caused an accident and was driving on a suspended license. She also had a warrant for driving on a suspended license previously and never showing up for court in that case. The biggest problem with this scenario is that she didn't care. She knew that even if she could not come up with the $100 bond that in 24 hours they would release her on her own recognizance and she would just drive again.

I am sorry to others as well if my comments were too cynical, but I realize that this is a huge problem that really does way on me. Drivers get suspended for good reasons and should not drive, but the legislature, at least in MI, has not seen it as important enough a problem to do anything really effective.

To be honest, I would like see this thread turn into something more positive like some of the latest posters have and try to come up with some good idea that advocacy groups can try to get passed in their respective legislatures.

[deputyjones]

A lot of those people are driving without licenses because they have no other way to get to and from work. If handing them a bicycle will get them out of their cars then I'm in favor of handing them a bicycle.

To be honest mark I have to agree in a way. If you offered the chance some might actually take you up on it and us it. Might be worth a shot, but I do have to grit my teeth a bit at the idea of rewarding a criminal for being a criminal by giving them a bike. Maybe if you paired some sort of program like this with the courts, and they "paid" for the bike with community service it might have a better appeal.

[CommuterRun]

Wrong back at'cha. sbhikes has written several previous bigoted posts about Mexican immigrants. These are brown people, like my stepson.

Besides, why would the statement be less bigoted if it were about some other group? Prejudice is prejudice, whatever color the victim is. Unless she's a Native American, sbhikes's ancestors were also immigrants, and they probably had ways that were unacceptable to the people who got here before them.
So you kemmer and saraflux are saying that only immigrants from Mexico band together and live the way Diane described, and you recognized that group by her description, so you see a ring of truth to it?

As for driving without a DL, throw the habitual offender in jail. Second offense-60 days, third offense-180 days, fourth offense-1 yr. All after that 5 yrs. The same for driving without insurance.

Maybe if you paired some sort of program like this with the courts, and they "paid" for the bike with community service it might have a better appeal.
That would be a good idea.

[sbhikes]

If I'd used the words "trailer park" would that have been better?

[I-Like-To-Bike]

Courthouses should only be acessible by walking, if they will be trying cases where people lose their driver's licence :p
Yea, Yea! A courthouse in every neighborhood, town, village and trailer park. Yea! That's the ticket!

[Roody]

If I'd used the words "trailer park" would that have been better?
You just don't get it, do you? Judging people on the basis of a group that they belong to is prejudice--no matter who the person or what the group. If you want to say that trashy lawns correlate with scofflaw behavior, that's fine. Stupid but fine. If you proceed to say that group membership is associated with either trashy lawns or scofflaw behavior, you've crossed the line into bigotry--stupid but not fine. I really doubt if you will ever understand. It might be better for you just to avoid the topic, since Bikeforums does have rules against bigoted posts, which the mods do enforce. Fair warning.

[I-Like-To-Bike]

You just don't get it, do you?...It might be better for you just to avoid the topic, since Bikeforums does have rules against bigoted posts, which the mods do enforce. Fair warning.
Roody - the voice of moderation:rolleyes: - has spoken. Obey!

[Roody]

I am very sorry I made you angry with my gross generalization, which I realize it was, but let me give you some background. I grew up in "trashy apartment complexes" in the south suburbs of Chicago, and, although I never lived in a trailer park, I did live in a trailer in rural CT as a kid too. So I am very firmiliar, outside of my work, with these places. I realized they were trashy when I lived there, and so did my parents, but that was our lot in life.

When I was referring to "those kind of people" I was referring to the criminals who continue to commit their crimes day after day with no regard for the law. I have had contact with hundreds of said people and those are the places that 99% of them live. It is unfortunate given the extra stresses of economic hardship facing the non-criminal element that live there that they now have to live among these criminals, but it is the truth nonetheless. Any other inference you placed upon my statements was placed there by you, but if I offended you I apologize. I did not intend to, and I have not, nor do I ever intend to, oppress anyone based on their socio-economic status.

CASE IN POINT: First call I am dispatched to (meaning I was sent there. I did not volunteer.) today was a 23 year old young woman who caused an accident and was driving on a suspended license. She also had a warrant for driving on a suspended license previously and never showing up for court in that case. The biggest problem with this scenario is that she didn't care. She knew that even if she could not come up with the $100 bond that in 24 hours they would release her on her own recognizance and she would just drive again.

I am sorry to others as well if my comments were too cynical, but I realize that this is a huge problem that really does way on me. Drivers get suspended for good reasons and should not drive, but the legislature, at least in MI, has not seen it as important enough a problem to do anything really effective.

To be honest, I would like see this thread turn into something more positive like some of the latest posters have and try to come up with some good idea that advocacy groups can try to get passed in their respective legislatures.

Personally, I didn't think that you expressed bigotry or prejudice, just a kind of jaded view. As for this thread becoming serious, it isn't even about bicycles so why would advocacy groups be interested in it?