Fifty Plus (50+) - Questions about upgrades

Hope the group can help. Looking to upgrade 1990 era Specialized Allez Epic carbon lugged frame. Shimano 105 components with downtube shifters, 7 cog rear cassette, double in front. Questions are:
If I upgrade wheels, can I go to 8 cogs without upgrading derailleur(s)? Can I get a spacer to adapt the 7 cassette to a 8-9-10 compatible rear hub? If I can't adapt and need to upgrade shifters & dérailleur, will I need to cruise EBay to find components that will fit, or can more current / modern Shimano gear work.
I apologize for all the questions, but this is my first effort at such an extensive retro- fit / upgrade. I love this frame, have put many miles on it, and want to breath some new life into it. Thanks in advance!!!

I don't know the answers to the questions, but I'll bet the guys at Harris Cyclery will. They've helped me keep two 20+ year bicycles on the road in fine fettle. Contact info here: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/index.html

Also you might ask this in the Classic and Vintage section of BF.

What kind of shifters are you wanting to use?

BluesDawg -
Keep the downtube shifters...I love that "standard transmission":D

BluesDawg -
Keep the downtube shifters...I love that "standard transmission":D

:)

OK. So exactly what are we trying to accomplish here?

My guess is that the rear end will be spaced at 126 and can't be stretched to 130 like a steel frame could (maybe I'm wrong?). So an 8, 9 or 10 speed hub isn't going to fit.
If those are 7 speed indexed shifters, they aren't going to work with 8, 9 or 10 speed cassettes.

If I wanted new wheels and wanted to keep the original shifters, I would rebuild the wheels on the original hubs (or some other 7 speed hubs, maybe a Phil Wood freewheel hub).

I'm carbon-ignorant, but...........most steel 126 frames can be finger spread enough to slip on a 130 rear wheel which will allow you to upgrade to 9 speed cassette with accompanying new chain and shifters. (Brifters, dt, or bar-ends to suit your taste-- and, for that matter, suitable friction shifters will shift even close set 9spd cogs with precision.) I've done "finger spread" thing to two of my older frames and the shifting is flawless and, for an accumulated 3000+ miles all has worked well. Some purists might prefer a formal "cold set" to spread those drop-outs, but in the real world it's a measly 2mm per side.

But..........carbon is stiff and may not allow comfortably flexing those rear stays even the 4cm. Borrow somebody's 130 rear wheel, take 2 minutes and see if you can put that wheel on.

+1 with Blackberry......Harris would be your best and most sympathetic bet for upgrading an "older" bike.

My understading is that steel is the only material than can be fudged when it comes to rear dropout spacing. Carbon and aluminum are definitely out. Not sure about titanium.

Go with friction shifting and build an 8-speed freehub with 9-speed spacing (see SheldonBrown's discussion).

Go with friction shifting and build an 8-speed freehub with 9-speed spacing (see SheldonBrown's discussion).

Yeah, then you can use more expensive, less durable chains and have tighter gaps to hit when shifting. All to gain one extra cog. I would stay with 7 speed.

Yeah, then you can use more expensive, less durable chains and have tighter gaps to hit when shifting. All to gain one extra cog. I would stay with 7 speed.

I concur, but he seems to want that one extra cog. Another choice is a triple chainring (I run a very nice half-step-plus-grannie 3x6 setup on the PKN-10), if one's knees can handle the wider Q-factor.

Hopefully you have a Freehub rear wheel where the cassette comes off the carrier instead of a Freebody where the Cluster comes off in one piece.

If you have a cassette- then 7 speed shifters will work on 8 speed- although you will lose one gear. The derraillers will work with 7,8 or 9 speed. (All the hype about special deraillers for 9 speed only loses a little bit of smoothness.) A spacer is available to convert the more modern 8/9 speed hub to 7 speeds. As to putting an extra gear onto a 7 speed hub- then you have a problem

Only problem I can see is if the frame spacing will not take a newer hub. but your LBS should be able to tell you if it is possible on your frame.

Then again- 7Speed works fine. Changing to 8 speed will only give one extra gear- normally somewhere in the middle so is it worth it? Going to 9 speed will only give two extra gears- still in the middle so still Is it worth it?

What you want to look at is where you are lacking in gearing- Is it the top or lower end? Or the closeness between the gears? With a change of Cassette- this can be rectified.

I ride Sora 8 speed on my road bike and although I do use the full range of gears- It is not any different to the "OLD" 6 speed Freeebody unit I have. The range is the same and the gears are just a little bit awkward on hills. It's just the bike that is a problem- getting too old and not losing any weight.

Then the MTB and Tandem have 9 speed but both these need the lower gearing that 9 speed can give for offroad. So why is the fast one in our group still using 7 speed? Cause it works and he can ride.

We really need to hear some more from the OP to establish what he really wants to improve about his bike. What is the rear spacing. And how important is an extra cog or two in back to him? Otherwise it's just us running on about our own preferences.

To all - Appreciate the insights, here are my "hoped for" goals: Decrease weight and improve "spin-up" of the current wheelset, most especially as it relates to climbing. If I can gain some improved shifting with more modern components then that's a plus. I'm also just looking to gain some range in gearing, most especially as these older bones need some more help climbing. 15+years and going from Indiana plains to North Carolina hills and mountains makes for harder work! The question of wheels was a function of trying to find a lighter more recent vintage lightly used set on EBay / online, hoping to save vs. a custom build or rebuild .
Obviously I can leave the current cassette in place or change the configuration of the cogs if that's my best option. Current downtube shifters can be either friction or indexed, I actually run the front as friction and rear as indexed. Stapfam, I haven't taken the current rear wheel apart so I can't answer the question about freehub vs. freebody. Will also measure spacing on rear dropouts and report back.
I'm trying to collect information prior to diving in too far here before I start buying, disassembling, etc., and all this is very helpful. I'm grateful for the feedback, as again, this is my first time in this "pool" and trying to keep from getting in over my head:D :D :D !

What is your current bottom gear, 39/23? If you substitute a traditional mountain crankset with a 110mm BCD, you can go as small as 34T on the inside chainring. Consider replacing your 53-39 combination with something like 48-34, which will not require any additional chain wrap from your rear derailleur. What is your current freewheel -- 13-14-15-17-19-21-23? If so, simply replacing the 21 and 23 with a 22 and a 25 will make a noticeable difference, without gapping your critical high ratios.

An easy way to lower gearing is to fit a Triple crankset on the front. Front shifters for triples are still available but then comes a separate problem. The Bottom bracket spindle width. If you have a sealed bottom bracket as per modern bikes then it will require the correct bottom bracket width for the crankset. However- If it is not possible to fit a new type boottom bracket- then you could have problems.

Last year I Renovated a 20 year old Raleigh for a friend of mine. I was lucky in that I have a supply of used BB's so found the correct type and size to fit an old triple for him. Gave him a lowest gear of 28 on the front to go with his 23 on the back. Instead of 42/23.

Unless the bike is really cheap, (<$200), I would tend to back off from a glued (lugged) CF tube bike of that era unless you have access to industrial adhesives. Between technology and age there is a tendency for glued CF frames to come apart, not limited to Specialized or Trek glued CF frames. It took awhile for really good gluing processes to be developed, and that had not yet occurred in the early '90s.
If indeed the rear fork is 126, flexing it out to 130 is not going to enhance its longevity. The frame may be fine, but it is riskier than an all metal frame of the same age.