Advocacy & Safety - what am i doing wrong

No matter where my lane position is cars, trucks, and busses feel its ok to buzz me at 40+ miles per hour less than a foot away.
If I hug the curb they dont even try to change lanes, if I take the entire lane then they move over only enough so I can feel their sideview mirror whish by my head. Am I just thinned skinned or is this abnormal, its starting to scare me.
Any advice would be appreciated.

What kind of traffic are you riding in?

I have three criteria for choosing routes:

Speed of traffic
Volumn of traffic
Width of road

If a road or street is narrow and crowded, it's generally OK if the traffic is moving slow (as it should on a narrow road or street.)

If the road or street has a lot of fast moving traffic, it's ok if there's a good bike lane or shoulder.

And if a road is narrow and fast, it's ok a car only comes by every few minutes rather than every few seconds.

If you are on a road where there's a lot of fast moving traffic and very little bike lane or shoulder to ride on, then you're screwed. Cars generally give you a wide berth if no one is coming in the opposite direction. But with lots of oncoming traffic, they will try to squeeze by you rather than slow from 50mph to 20mph.

I would say its more narrow and fast, however there are two lanes in both directions so I try and take the entire right lane. Maybe I should move completly over 2/3s into the right lane?
The traffic comes in spurts a bunch of cars for 30 seconds then nothing for 30. I would pull over but it would take me forever to get home from work if I had to stop every 30 seconds.

EDIT: so far this is the best route I have found, the alternatives are much worse

I ride on a street with 2 narrow lanes in each direction almost every day. I mostly ride in the center of the outer lane. I don't have the problem with getting buzzed like you do. Try riding further to the left, if it makes sense to you and you feel OK about it.

Maybe you could find a more experienced cyclist to ride the route with you and give some pointers. Or you might be interested in a vehicular cycling class. Check with the League of American Bicyclists (http://www.bikeleague.org/cogs/resources/findit/index.php) or ask around at the local bike shops.

Do you have a mirror? if not, get one. That way you will be able to check on rear-approaching traffic and won't be taken by surprise when vehicles pass you. If you don't have a mirror then I think part of your problem may be that you are simply startled when a vehicle overtakes you.

Once you have the mirror try this technique: On the road you are having problems with, ride roughly centered in the narrow lane or a little right of center, giving yourself 4-5' of space to the right edge of road or curb. When cars approach, stay put until you see the vehicle slow and/or move left to pass. When the vehicle moves left, you move right a foot or two to give more clearance. Once the traffic has passed, resume your center-ish lane position.

Sounds like hostile conditions to ride in. A lot of people have conditions like these. They choose to drive.

I used to ride on a similar road. 45mph with no shoulder, and the traffic would come in sourts as they caught the light a quarter mile back, like cattle being herded. I swear they would buzz me purposely, no matter what position I took in the lane. I never really found a solution, my job there ended not long after I started bike commuting so the problem was over. But it did seem that these people thought I was invading their space so they would purposely pass me very closely to convey their frustration.
Did I mention that I hate people?

Once you have the mirror try this technique: On the road you are having problems with, ride roughly centered in the narrow lane or a little right of center, giving yourself 4-5' of space to the right edge of road or curb. When cars approach, stay put until you see the vehicle slow and/or move left to pass. When the vehicle moves left, you move right a foot or two to give more clearance. Once the traffic has passed, resume your center-ish lane position.

This will only work with the first car. OP said that the traffic comes in spurts, likely from a light. So the first car in the line will have sufficient space, but the others that follow will just buzz closely as they usually do.

This is why I try to avoid the road when riding alone.

This will only work with the first car. OP said that the traffic comes in spurts, likely from a light. So the first car in the line will have sufficient space, but the others that follow will just buzz closely as they usually do.
Exactly. Especially if the first driver maintains speed and does not move left until very close to the cyclist. Following drivers may have very little time/space to react. Makes me think that the poster of such advice does not have much practical experience cycling on such roads. That is why I use lights mounted very high so that I can be seen by the following cars.

What kind of colors do you wear? You must be wearing the bright flourescent lime-green-yellow highway worker construction vest in your situation. No ifs and or buts.

Do you run strong rear lights? Several of them?

I agree - try to avoid single-lane in each direction, narrow, high-speed, high volume, without shoulder or bikelane. Those are the worst.

Especially at night or in the rain.

try to find a different road. Carry a u-lock, start bashing windows.

Exactly. Especially if the first driver maintains speed and does not move left until very close to the cyclist. Following drivers may have very little time/space to react. Makes me think that the poster of such advice does not have much practical experience cycling on such roads. That is why I use lights mounted very high so that I can be seen by the following cars.
I agree. (Except that I have no idea how much experience the other poster has.) It's important to realize that trailing drivers in a "pack" don't have much time to react to you.

Another factor is that when you are riding further left from the curb, drivers tend to pass you with more space. I don't know why, but I imagine it has something to do with perception as they tend to judge your location relative to the lane edges. At any rate, if the lead driver passes you with more space, it also gives trailing drivers more time/space to notice you and respond. Furthermore, drivers have a tendency to follow the leader. If the lead car pulls way out to the left, following drivers will sometimes do the same, even if they haven't seen the cyclist yet. So, in dealing with a pack of cars, my first strategy is to get the lead driver to give me lots of space. Short of brandishing a golf club, the best way to do this is usually to ride a little more to the left when you're being chased by the pack.

Once you have the mirror try this technique: On the road you are having problems with, ride roughly centered in the narrow lane or a little right of center, giving yourself 4-5' of space to the right edge of road or curb. When cars approach, stay put until you see the vehicle slow and/or move left to pass. When the vehicle moves left, you move right a foot or two to give more clearance. Once the traffic has passed, resume your center-ish lane position.

This will only work with the first car. OP said that the traffic comes in spurts, likely from a light. So the first car in the line will have sufficient space, but the others that follow will just buzz closely as they usually do.
Funny how this claim/concern usually (always?) seems to come from those who do not engage in the practice of using a mirror to fine tune their lane position in narrow lanes in order to encourage all those approaching from behind to slow down and/or change lanes completely to pass, including everyone in the pack.

This is what I observe in my mirror very consistently in these situations on countless roads: Before the lead car in the pack moves completely aside to change lanes to go around the cyclist, the driver of the 2nd car also sees the cyclist, and, like a lemming, tends to follow the car in front of him in the exact same track. If traffic is too busy to allow for both cars to change lanes, then the driver of the 2nd car slows down to the cyclist's speed, thus causing all those behind him to slow down too. Sometimes the 1st and 2nd car change lanes, but the 3rd car (and everyone behind him) are forced to slow down, etc.


Especially if the first driver maintains speed and does not move left until very close to the cyclist. Following drivers may have very little time/space to react.
This typical "following drivers may have very little time/space" hypothesizing ignores several factors:


Usually (not always), the driver of the 2nd car can see the cyclist ahead of the car in front of him, especially if the cyclist chooses to stand precisely for this purpose (see #5 below). Even in the saddle in the crouched "road bike" position, a cyclist's head typically sits higher than the height of the average car. Windows of the front car are usually transparent.
The 2nd car is usually several car lengths behind the 1st car, thereby increasing the time/distance the 2nd driver has to notice and slow down for (or pass) the cyclist, once the first car is moving aside and the 2nd driver notices the cyclist.
Even if the driver of the 2nd car does not notice the cyclist before the 1st car moves, he can see the cyclist before the 1st car has moved completely out of the way.
The 2nd motorist does not have to come to a complete stop to avoid hitting the cyclist. Any slowing increases the time he has before he reaches the cyclist, the time he has to also change lanes, and the time the cyclist has to move aside to help the 2nd driver pass him, all during which those behind are forced to slow down too. Even if slowing does not buy him enough time to pass the cyclist, he still has to slow down only to the speed of the cyclist, not come to a complete stop.
In order for this to happen, as ILTB notes, the first driver would have to maintain speed and not move left way past the point where the prudent lane-controlling cyclist would be taking notice and reacting accordingly (standing up to be more visible, using the slow/stop signal to encourage the 1st motorist to slow down long before he reached this point - which would force the 2nd motorist to slow down - being extra alert, moving aside, etc.)
Are there any known incidents of someone hitting a slower vehicle or bicycle in front of him because he didn't notice him until too late: when the car in front of him moved aside to pass at the last possible instant?



Makes me think that the poster of such advice does not have much practical experience cycling on such roads.
Interesting. Your hypothesizing makes me think you don't have much practical experience controlling lanes and "herding traffic" while cycling on such roads.

In keeping with ILTB's suggestions, I'm sure the Support Our Troops ribbon helps. You may consider adding an American Flag. I've heard that helps gain respect. So does a bumper sticker that says "Divorced, Wife got Car" or something like that.

Exactly. Especially if the first driver maintains speed and does not move left until very close to the cyclist. Following drivers may have very little time/space to react. Makes me think that the poster of such advice does not have much practical experience cycling on such roads. That is why I use lights mounted very high so that I can be seen by the following cars.

Is that your bike? :roflmao: My annual mileage is 7000-8000 with whats yours? I ride roads with 45-50 MPH speed limits all the time - both multi and single lane. The technique is the same for dealing with overtaking traffic. Block the lane. Force the car to slow and merge left. Leave yourself some bailout space. If cars are tightly packed, as soon as the brake-lights come on for the lead car, everybody behind is going to be hard on the binders. If the second car is going to hit anything, it would be the lead car and so on down the line. It's not that hard to herd the cars.

Is that your bike? :roflmao: My annual mileage is 7000-8000 with whats yours? I ride roads with 45-50 MPH speed limits all the time - both multi and single lane. The technique is the same for dealing with overtaking traffic. Block the lane. Force the car to slow and merge left. Leave yourself some bailout space. If cars are tightly packed, as soon as the brake-lights come on for the lead car, everybody behind is going to be hard on the binders. If the second car is going to hit anything, it would be the lead car and so on down the line. It's not that hard to herd the cars.
I dunno, ILTB, that sure sounds like practical experience cycling on such roads to me.

I have heard of one instance where a guy was hit by the second car in a pack after the first waited until the last second to change lanes. I believe he had a blog or something and someone posted a link to it in this forum. Anyone with a better memory than me want to fill in the blanks in my story?

I'm not one to defend ILTB too often, but from pictures of his commute and distances he's quoted, he has plenty of experience on the types of roads he's talking about. That's not to say that everyone who rides even the same exact roads will have the same experience, as we've discussed before.

Is that your bike? :roflmao: My annual mileage is 7000-8000 with whats yours? I ride roads with 45-50 MPH speed limits all the time - both multi and single lane. The technique is the same for dealing with overtaking traffic. Block the lane. Force the car to slow and merge left. Leave yourself some bailout space. If cars are tightly packed, as soon as the brake-lights come on for the lead car, everybody behind is going to be hard on the binders. If the second car is going to hit anything, it would be the lead car and so on down the line. It's not that hard to herd the cars.
Bingo. First of all, as soon as you push cars out, the ones behind tend to follow. The second thing is that if you can get in the way, you can slow ALL the cars down. Even after you shift right, it takes them awhile to speed up.

I believe that if you are properly lit and wear high visibility clothing, motorists will treat you with more respect.

does anyone have a suggestion on a type of mirror that works best for visibilty. The colored jacket is a great idea, currently im just using the td-1000 for my rear light.

First of all, as soon as you push cars out, the ones behind tend to follow. The second thing is that if you can get in the way, you can slow ALL the cars down. Even after you shift right, it takes them awhile to speed up.
This too sounds like the words of someone with ample practical experience effectively "herding" fast/busy traffic while cycling on roads with narrow lanes.

What are you wearing?
I find a bright vest works wonders.

In keeping with ILTB's suggestions, I'm sure the Support Our Troops ribbon helps. You may consider adding an American Flag. I've heard that helps gain respect. So does a bumper sticker that says "Divorced, Wife got Car" or something like that.

Im thinking of a sign or bumper sticker on my camelbak that says "Rider carries no more than $20 worth of ammunition". Angry drivers around here understand that kind of statement.

does anyone have a suggestion on a type of mirror that works best for visibilty.
I use a Take-a-look attached to my sunglasses which I got at REI for $15 a few years ago. But it's the only one I've ever tried. It's rectangular. There are also oval designs by other brands.

Give it at least a week or two to learn how to use effectively. It takes time for your brain to adjust, and to get it tweaked just right. But like with anything else it becomes much easier after you give it some time.

The main thing with mirrors is to NEVER rely exclusively on a mirror to check back prior to moving laterally (more than a few inches) - be sure you retain the habit of ALWAYS looking back by turning your head to look over the shoulder on the side to which you are turning before you move over more than a few inches. The main reasons to make sure you retain this habit are:


Two eyes are more reliable than one.
The over-the-shoulder look back serves as a signal to others about your intent to move laterally. It's good to have that habit in case someone is looking at you that you have overlooked.

does anyone have a suggestion on a type of mirror that works best for visibilty. The colored jacket is a great idea, currently im just using the td-1000 for my rear light.

I have a helmet-mounted mirror for fast training rides. On my utility/grocery getter bike I have a bar-mounted mirror that attaches to the end of the flat bar. The bar-mounted mirror gives a more stable and wide view of what is going on behind, plus, it takes my old eyes a second to refocus using the helmet mirror and on rough roads the view is bouncing all over.

I have a helmet-mounted mirror for fast training rides. On my utility/grocery getter bike I have a bar-mounted mirror that attaches to the end of the flat bar. The bar-mounted mirror gives a more stable and wide view of what is going on behind, plus, it takes my old eyes a second to refocus using the helmet mirror and on rough roads the view is bouncing all over.
I have little "bouncing" trouble with my glasses-mounted mirror. I always wear my sunglasses (interchangable lenses - dark, yellow, clear) when I ride, so I always have the mirror.

I have little "bouncing" trouble with my glasses-mounted mirror. I always wear my sunglasses (interchangable lenses - dark, yellow, clear) when I ride, so I always have the mirror.

I don't have bounce problems... just focus problems... so I stick with a handle bar mirror.

On my other bike I just look back... but I often catch myself looking at the spot where the mirror would be, so I know I depend on it.

Funny how this claim/concern usually (always?) seems to come from those who do not engage in the practice of using a mirror to fine tune their lane position in narrow lanes in order to encourage all those approaching from behind to slow down and/or change lanes completely to pass, including everyone in the pack.

This is what I observe in my mirror very consistently in these situations on countless roads: Before the lead car in the pack moves completely aside to change lanes to go around the cyclist, the driver of the 2nd car also sees the cyclist, and, like a lemming, tends to follow the car in front of him in the exact same track. If traffic is too busy to allow for both cars to change lanes, then the driver of the 2nd car slows down to the cyclist's speed, thus causing all those behind him to slow down too. Sometimes the 1st and 2nd car change lanes, but the 3rd car (and everyone behind him) are forced to slow down, etc.


This typical "following drivers may have very little time/space" hypothesizing ignores several factors:


Usually (not always), the driver of the 2nd car can see the cyclist ahead of the car in front of him, especially if the cyclist chooses to stand precisely for this purpose (see #5 below). Even in the saddle in the crouched "road bike" position, a cyclist's head typically sits higher than the height of the average car. Windows of the front car are usually transparent.
The 2nd car is usually several car lengths behind the 1st car, thereby increasing the time/distance the 2nd driver has to notice and slow down for (or pass) the cyclist, once the first car is moving aside and the 2nd driver notices the cyclist.
Even if the driver of the 2nd car does not notice the cyclist before the 1st car moves, he can see the cyclist before the 1st car has moved completely out of the way.
The 2nd motorist does not have to come to a complete stop to avoid hitting the cyclist. Any slowing increases the time he has before he reaches the cyclist, the time he has to also change lanes, and the time the cyclist has to move aside to help the 2nd driver pass him, all during which those behind are forced to slow down too. Even if slowing does not buy him enough time to pass the cyclist, he still has to slow down only to the speed of the cyclist, not come to a complete stop.
In order for this to happen, as ILTB notes, the first driver would have to maintain speed and not move left way past the point where the prudent lane-controlling cyclist would be taking notice and reacting accordingly (standing up to be more visible, using the slow/stop signal to encourage the 1st motorist to slow down long before he reached this point - which would force the 2nd motorist to slow down - being extra alert, moving aside, etc.)
Are there any known incidents of someone hitting a slower vehicle or bicycle in front of him because he didn't notice him until too late: when the car in front of him moved aside to pass at the last possible instant?



Interesting. Your hypothesizing makes me think you don't have much practical experience controlling lanes and "herding traffic" while cycling on such roads.

Observe away, but I never said, anywhere, in any post that I have made, that I do not make use of a mirror.
I happen to have 3 different types of mirrors. Now i'm not saying I do or do not use them. But the OP said that no matter what his lane position is he/she experiences the same result. So how would being able to see someone coming up behind you change their routine?

Observe away, but I never said, anywhere, in any post that I have made, that I do not make use of a mirror.
I happen to have 3 different types of mirrors. Now i'm not saying I do or do not use them. But the OP said that no matter what his lane position is he/she experiences the same result. So how would being able to see someone coming up behind you change their routine?
Sometimes what it takes to get them to notice you, realize you're there and not going anywhere, and slow down or change lanes, is not riding in a particular position, but a change from one position to another as they are approaching. In particular, moving from the right tire track to about the center (near the grease between the left and right tire tracks), or from the center to about the left tire track, seem to be especially effective in this regard. But often the move does not have to be that large of a magnitude. I never cease to be amazed at how effective a slight adjustment of maybe a foot or even less can be.

The mirror is helpful in that you can watch them from them to react as soon as you begin your move left. For example, you can adjust 6 inches, and, if nothing happens (they're still not slowing down or changing lanes to pass), then adjust another 2 or 3 feet further left.

Can anyone else confirm or add to this?

Unfortunately, there is also the geography factor. HH and I are blessed to live in a county in which motorists are particularly accustomed to seeing bicyclists and arguably more environmentally minded than many.

For recreational cycling, I choose my routes, weather conditions, and times of day primarily with safety in mind. For transportation cycling, I do what I can, which occasionally involves a detour or two.

In order for this to happen, as ILTB notes, the first driver would have to maintain speed and not move left way past the point where the prudent lane-controlling cyclist would be taking notice and reacting accordingly (standing up to be more visible, using the slow/stop signal to encourage the 1st motorist to slow down long before he reached this point - which would force the 2nd motorist to slow down - being extra alert, moving aside, etc.)
Welcome to the real world! Where visibility is not California Sunshine 24 hours a day. Where people don't behave like you dream about. Slow stop signal! Standing up!

[mod note: removed unneeded insults]

Sometimes what it takes to get them to notice you, realize you're there and not going anywhere, and slow down or change lanes, is not riding in a particular position, but a change from one position to another as they are approaching. In particular, moving from the right tire track to about the center (near the grease between the left and right tire tracks), or from the center to about the left tire track, seem to be especially effective in this regard. But often the move does not have to be that large of a magnitude. I never cease to be amazed at how effective a slight adjustment of maybe a foot or even less can be.

The mirror is helpful in that you can watch them from them to react as soon as you begin your move left. For example, you can adjust 6 inches, and, if nothing happens (they're still not slowing down or changing lanes to pass), then adjust another 2 or 3 feet further left.

Can anyone else confirm or add to this?
No. I don't use a mirror and I don't very often switch around in the lane. I just ride dead center in the NOL. They all go around me with lots of room to spare. If they didn't I'd sue their asses. If I had to go through all those changes you go through, I'd probably fall off my bike. I'm just an old man on a bike and I don't have time to be bothered with all that switching.

No. I don't use a mirror and I don't very often switch around in the lane. I just ride dead center in the NOL. They all go around me with lots of room to spare. If they didn't I'd sue their asses. If I had to go through all those changes you go through, I'd probably fall off my bike. I'm just an old man on a bike and I don't have time to be bothered with all that switching.
"All that switching" is pretty easy, and keeps me alert and focused on traffic rather than on who-knows-what.

Block the lane. Force the car to slow and merge left. Leave yourself some bailout space. If cars are tightly packed, as soon as the brake-lights come on for the lead car, everybody behind is going to be hard on the binders. If the second car is going to hit anything, it would be the lead car and so on down the line. It's not that hard to herd the cars.
Are you cycling in an alternate universe? What brake lights on following cars? Unless there is no gap in the traffic on their left, no driver is going to slow down to pass a cyclist on a 50+ mph road, especially if closely followed by more vehicles. And plenty will wait till the last second, literally, to make the full speed pass.

P.S. Approximately 5000 miles a year commuting, half of it on 55 mph roads.

I don't believe a word of your "Herd the Cars" BS for cars approaching from behind at 50+ mph! Perhaps Helmet Head and his ilk will.
If you actually rode under real world condition that you claim you wouldn't be smirking about my light array, Jack! Or you are even more foolish than I thought.

back on topic
OP
I do understand where you are coming from, and from my experience, and my experience only, there isn't much you can do but hope that the motorists start to anticipate that you will be there, which will come in time.
I live where cars rule, they don't call it the Motor city because of all the cyclists around, in fact I have not seen another cyclist in many months. On my regular route people are used to me, I've had them say so to me at stop lights.
Motorists, like cyclists, usually use the same route over and over, day after day, and do begin to take note of things they see every day.
I don't know where you live, but if it's in suburban hell like me then I can relate big time. Just hold your ground and hope for the best or try to find a different route.
But my advise, is like everyone elses... can be taken with a grain of salt.

Can you see why if ILTB's real-world experience is shared by anybody else (which I believe it is) this explains why so few people choose to ride bikes under these conditions? This is why better cycling facilities are needed.

I'll betcha that if that road in the original post has a sidewalk, that's where all the cyclists who want to live another day will be riding. But if not, I'll betcha the OP gives up and that'll be the last time you see anybody cycling there.

Can you see why if ILTB's real-world experience is shared by anybody else (which I believe it is) this explains why so few people choose to ride bikes under these conditions? This is why better cycling facilities are needed.

I'll betcha that if that road in the original post has a sidewalk, that's where all the cyclists who want to live another day will be riding. But if not, I'll betcha the OP gives up and that'll be the last time you see anybody cycling there.

Sad, but true.
If there were a sidewalk on the route I used to ride that was similar to the OP route I'd definately have taken it. No need to make myself uncomfortable and put myself in danger when I could chose the sidewalk, a sidewalk that likely wouldn't see much foot traffic at all.
I'm all for bike facilities myself. I love seperated bike paths and make use of the only one we have here on a daily basis. My preferences in order are:
Seperated MUP/MUT
Extra wide shoulder
Bike lane
Ride in the road

I'll chose a former over the latter every time. And sometimes will use a sidewalk if it suits me. I could care less about upsetting someone else.

Can you see why if ILTB's real-world experience is shared by anybody else (which I believe it is) this explains why so few people choose to ride bikes under these conditions? This is why better cycling facilities are needed.
No, all that is needed is road widening, perhaps in this case adding a paved shoulder.

Road widening would make for better facility for cyclists. But if the traffic is as aggressive as this conversation suggests, I don't think it would be enough.

Road widening would make for better facility for cyclists. But if the traffic is as aggressive as this conversation suggests, I don't think it would be enough.
I wouldn't confuse certain fantasies about "aggressive" traffic with reality.

Some people would be painting a similar picture about SD traffic if yours truly wasn't here to counter it.

No, all that is needed is road widening, perhaps in this case adding a paved shoulder.
Oh? Is that all? Just do it, eh? Well maybe in La La Land.

Some guy writes for help and what he gets is a flame war and sermonettes on bike lanes. Well, my advice to the OP is to never read past the first 30 posts on any A & S thread, unless you find the exchange to be amusing (and it sometimes is).

I forgot where I read this, but it came from a person who works for the road service or whatever you call it.
Someone said to him, can't you guys just widen that road?
His response: sure, can we raise your taxes?

Roody is dead on though, this forum should be changed from A&S (Advocacy and Safety) to P&M (Pissing & Moaning)
but I'm a fan flamer myself ;)

Lemmings DON'T drive cars, and they don't throw themselves en masse off cliffs. that was an artifical construct in a nature film.

drivers don't follow blindly like some posters speciously insist in this thread, but much of the rest of the advice to get yourself more conspicious clothing, better blinkies, etc ,can help the OP with their riding confidence and effects. I think a Planet Bike SUPERFLASH, running during the day ,is VERY eye-catching....

Sounds like the OP is already trying an assertive lane position.....


What's your 'rear view', mr. head? anything special? a yellow high viz vest, or something else commonly used by many transportational bicyclists? (Oh, i forgot- you don't actually bike commute very often....)

Here's my 'rear view' of my winter season commuting bike, and I use a similar setup while touring. I don't put a lot of faith in drivers all swerving around me at the same distance, that's just armchair bicycling, not in touch with reality on the roads. But this seems to get me a bit better passing clearances. your results may vary.

Sounds like the OP is already trying an assertive lane position.....

Only if you consider riding just left of the outside edge of the door zone, which is stil typically right of the right tire track of motor vehicles (unless they're driving partially in the door zone), as an "assertive lane position" (a subjective term). I, for one, do not.

Edit: Never mind. Got this thread confused with another one.

Only if you consider riding just left of the outside edge of the door zone, which is stil typically right of the right tire track of motor vehicles (unless they're driving partially in the door zone), as an "assertive lane position" (a subjective term). I, for one, do not.

huh?
the OP stated, and I quote, "the entire lane".
To me that means he is right there in the middle of the lane.
How much more assertive can you get? If I were to ride any further left than the middle of the lane then cars would pass me on the right, and it has happened to me before.

and just where is the "door zone" on a 40+mph road equipped with a curb?


huh?
the OP stated, and I quote, "the entire lane".
To me that means he is right there in the middle of the lane.
How much more assertive can you get? If I were to ride any further left than the middle of the lane then cars would pass me on the right, and it has happened to me before.

huh?
If I were to ride any further left than the middle of the lane then cars would pass me on the right, and it has happened to me before.

yep, if you ride too far left, drivers will pass on the right. Happened to me this afternoon.

yep, if you ride too far left, drivers will pass on the right. Happened to me this afternoon.

Things like that happen to me more often than I'd like to admit really.
This thread has oficially been hijacked ;)
Around here I am seen as an obsticle or distraction it seems. Today alone I was brake checked, honked at, insulted, and cut off via right hook.
I'd like to see some of the guys who think commuting in this traffic is easy give it a shot one day.

huh?
the OP stated, and I quote, "the entire lane".
To me that means he is right there in the middle of the lane.
How much more assertive can you get? If I were to ride any further left than the middle of the lane then cars would pass me on the right, and it has happened to me before.
Sorry for the confusion. I got confused with another thread.

Let's try this again.


Sounds like the OP is already trying an assertive lane position.....
Yes, but he's not trying subtle dynamic adjustments as potential close-passers are approaching from behind (I covered this in detail above; not going to repeat). I also don't think he has tried using the slow/stop left arm signal when required.


yep, if you ride too far left, drivers will pass on the right. Happened to me this afternoon.
Of course if you leave enough room on your right for them to pass on your right, they'll use it, maybe assuming you're merging over to the left lane for an upcoming left turn, but probably not even thinking or caring about why you're doing it.