Foo - A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection

A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html)


"Windows Vista includes an extensive reworking of core OS elements in order to provide content protection for so-called ‘premium content’, typically HD data from Blu-Ray and HD-DVD sources. Providing this protection incurs considerable costs in terms of system performance, system stability, technical support overhead, and hardware and software cost. These issues affect not only users of Vista but the entire PC industry, since the effects of the protection measures extend to cover all hardware and software that will ever come into contact with Vista, even if it's not used directly with Vista (for example hardware in a Macintosh computer or on a Linux server). This document analyses the cost involved in Vista 's content protection, and the collateral damage that this incurs throughout the computer industry."

Simplicity, ease of use, and other considerations of benefit to the user seem to be secondary, but they sure do benefit the entertainment/big media monopolies. Go figure that?

Yeah, I wonder how much the RIAA paid off Microsoft to include these "features"... :rolleyes: I won't be using Vista any time soon...

oooooh.... DRM makes me burn with anger. It's ok, nobrainer. Deep breaths. In..........out.

vista has to be the most unexciting new offering in the history of computing. it's even behind my role playing game that i programmed in basic 15 years ago.

A Cost Analysis of Windows Vista Content Protection (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html)

Simplicity, ease of use, and other considerations of benefit to the user seem to be secondary, but they sure do benefit the entertainment/big media monopolies. Go figure that?

Don't forget 'getting yourself deeper into Microsoft dependency'.

some people can only look at one thing. It's sad
Vista brings tons and tons of stuff to the table for parents, kids and businesses of all sizes. The DRM built into Vista, and who and what it affects is so insignificant it's amazingly funny, exceeded only in it's funniness by the people who are fooled and concentrate on that as being "the ultimate" evil. It's like being worried over nothing. Grow up, expand your horizons.

I'm never switching to Vista. I'll switch to Linux.

Vista brings tons and tons of stuff to the table for parents


Woo hoo! Screw parenting skills. I'm gonna have my children raised by computers!

some people can only look at one thing. It's sad
Vista brings tons and tons of stuff to the table for parents, kids and businesses of all sizes. The DRM built into Vista, and who and what it affects is so insignificant it's amazingly funny, exceeded only in it's funniness by the people who are fooled and concentrate on that as being "the ultimate" evil. It's like being worried over nothing. Grow up, expand your horizons.

Never had to deal with a half-million dollar yearly bill for licensing, only to find that when tasked with cost reduction that you can't even replace one piece of the total package (ie Office, IE, etc.) because to do so will effectively degrade the features and functionality of the other pieces, have ya TG? ;)

Getting locked into one vendor is NOT good business...especially one that can't even honor its own agreements, but that's what you get with Microsoft.

Woo hoo! Screw parenting skills. I'm gonna have my children raised by computers!
Parenting skills really have nothing to do with this. How a parent chooses to use the tools and the information provided by them determines their parenting skills. The OS is not replacing the parent. It is merely giving parents an extra tool in a world where most parents are both being left behind and are out of time.

Never had to deal with a half-million dollar yearly bill for licensing, only to find that when tasked with cost reduction that you can't even replace one piece of the total package (ie Office, IE, etc.) because to do so will effectively degrade the features and functionality of the other pieces, have ya TG? ;)

Getting locked into one vendor is NOT good business...but that's what you get with Microsoft.
"one vendor" ?
MS Windows is the only operating system that has millions of vendors competing for it.
If you are a business and you try running a whole business on linux or Mac - your software choices are very limited.

And try running a business on Mac? Well you can only get your computers from one company. And that hardware has been, for a decade expensive, behind the times, limiting and drastically underpowered.

Windows or Linux - you can choose any run of the mill hardware.
Of course on Linux Depending upon what time you lived in, and what you did drivers and functionality to interact with that hardware is not/has not always been available.

I fail to see how that argument locks in.
With Apple - there are virtually no software vendors in comparison to Windows
With apple - you are locked in on your hardware, not as bad as before but it's still pretty locked in.

With linux - you still have a very very tiny market competing for youser hardware, software and services need.

Dude, if you don't understand the phrase "locked in to a single vendor" when applied to Microsoft, you shouldn't even be participating in a thread about computing.

<------- Making popcorn. Anyone want?

This should be interesting.

Only if you've got a big bottle of Tabasco sauce handy.

Dude, if you don't understand the phrase "locked in to a single vendor" when applied to Microsoft, you shouldn't even be participating in a thread about computing.
This is the real world, not you.
Whenever you choose an operating system you are Locked into that company who makes it.

If you choose to use Red hat linux you pay 100 bucks a month per license just to get access to their updates. You have no software so you are locked out.

if you choose Mac then you spend 200 bucks every 1 1/2 years for an operating system that is 10 years behidn the time that upgrades every time they think of a new name and you are and have been locked iinto ONE ACTUAL VENDOR for your computers .

Anybody that thinks that choosing an operating system that has a million+ hardware, software and service vendors competing for it - that lets you run it inside of a vmware or lets you run other operating systems inside of VMware is "locked" into a solution.

You need a reality check, and chances are you are extremely biased. I have had the benefit of working for companies that are "all windows", "all linux" and "all mac" and do you know what. Out of the mouth of babes, from those who actually used the stuff - they all felt like they were locked into their operating system. They all had things they liked about it, they all had things they didn't like about it.


From my experience and my understanding of these companies - the only real companies that felt the most pain, from being completely locked in and that they were very limited by that locking in - were Mac only companies. And this is because they felt the crunch everywhere. Hardware lock in, No software vendors competing for their business, so their special proprietary software that they used to run their whole business only ran on Mac, it had no competition so the price was 10x its equiv, and they were locked in. Often times parts of their proprietary software were replaced by Web Apps or were trying to be replaced by the Web Apps, to remove relyance on the OS and remove reliance on the software(s) that was

"one vendor" ?
MS Windows is the only operating system that has millions of vendors competing for it.
If you are a business and you try running a whole business on linux or Mac - your software choices are very limited.

And try running a business on Mac? Well you can only get your computers from one company. And that hardware has been, for a decade expensive, behind the times, limiting and drastically underpowered.

Windows or Linux - you can choose any run of the mill hardware.
Of course on Linux Depending upon what time you lived in, and what you did drivers and functionality to interact with that hardware is not/has not always been available.

I fail to see how that argument locks in.
With Apple - there are virtually no software vendors in comparison to Windows
With apple - you are locked in on your hardware, not as bad as before but it's still pretty locked in.

With linux - you still have a very very tiny market competing for youser hardware, software and services need.


You need to brush up on what's available for Linux pal. ;)

Can you answer my original question...have you run an IT department and had to deal with a half-million dollar annual MS Licensing agreement? Indeed, have you ever been called on the carpet to explain to top management why you are paying for a new multiyear agreement when the terms of the old agreement have not even been met...ie. why MS can unilaterally decide that XP SP2 fulfills their obligation of providing a new OS release, rather than Vista, as originally promised? If you've walked a mile in those shoes, you'll understand exactly where I am coming from.

Only if you've got a big bottle of Tabasco sauce handy.
Do you want Tabasco or would you prefer a real hot sauce?

You need to brush up on what's available for Linux pal. ;)

Can you answer my original question...have you run an IT department and had to deal with a half-million dollar annual MS Licensing agreement? Indeed, have you ever been called on the carpet to explain to top management why you are paying for a new multiyear agreement when the terms of the old agreement have not even been met...ie. why MS can unilaterally decide that XP SP2 fulfills their obligation of providing a new OS release, rather than Vista, as originally promised? If you've walked a mile in those shoes, you'll understand exactly where I am coming from.

Amen brotha!

I really need to learn Linux since im so in favor of it.

You need to brush up on what's available for Linux pal. ;)

Can you answer my original question...have you run an IT department and had to deal with a half-million dollar annual MS Licensing agreement? Indeed, have you ever been called on the carpet to explain to top management why you are paying for a new multiyear agreement when the terms of the old agreement have not even been met...ie. why MS can unilaterally decide that XP SP2 fulfills their obligation of providing a new OS release, rather than Vista, as originally promised? If you've walked a mile in those shoes, you'll understand exactly where I am coming from.
I've seen those issues and from what i've seen Microsoft is trying to handle those as best as you can. They have attempted to make reparations that help ease some of those problems If you as a company have problem with licensing issues you take it up with whomever and you make sure that there is a resolution that is agreeable by both sides. If you just bend over and say, yes we have to take whatever they say.

And does that warrant what it is being justified for? I personally do not. I've had people nearly murder me and I still talk to them. I'm not going to change how a company operates simply because a company has altered the licensing agreements. That is why large companies have teams of attorneys and it is why you hire people to negotiate. Companies such as Microsoft want to keep individuals and customers happy and if you as a company let them know that there are.

These rules apply to numerous other companies that pull the same tricks. It also applies to the real world whether it's a construction company, insurance company or etc. Because they all pull these tricks and you have to deal with them as best as you can. And often times you cannot and would not restructure your life simply because you did not feel the need to negotiate with the company or bring a team of attornees and say.. Because the latter did work with Microsoft. Microsoft made amends to their SAS agreement that extended this. Whether this satisfied everybody, I'm sure it's not. This world is never happy unless they get everything they want, and have their own version of reality reaffirmed and everybody else does not get what they want.

This is the real world, not you.
Whenever you choose an operating system you are Locked into that company who makes it.


. . .




You're coming at this from a very misleading perspective. It doesn't matter if there are eight billion vendors "fighting" for space on a certain OS if key building blocks used by the OS (and the applications that run on it) are TOTALLY controlled by the OS vendor. This is 100% the case with MS, and 0% the case with Apple or Linux.

BTW, I'm no hater. I currently use all three we're talking about here on a regular basis. If anyone in this thread has displayed bias, it's been you.

Even tho' TG is a microsoft plant, we still love him. :love:

Even tho' TG is a microsoft plant, we still love him. :love:

+1. I hope my comments aren't misinterpreted as personal in nature.

You're coming at this from a very misleading perspective. It doesn't matter if there are eight billion vendors "fighting" for space on a certain OS if key building blocks used by the OS (and the applications that run on it) are TOTALLY controlled by the OS vendor. This is 100% the case with MS, and 0% the case with Apple or Linux.

BTW, I'm no hater. I currently use all three we're talking about here on a regular basis. If anyone in this thread has displayed bias, it's been you.
Ummm?
Apple controsl the software and the hardware for the The Mac platform. Mac has made it so difficult to develop software by either outright refusing to license, or making licensing IP and protocl information impossible to license.

Anybody - can develop for Windows

The "key building blocks" used by the OS - Define these and define how Microsoft is different from Apple? or Sun? Or Novell?

We won't metnion Linux We all know how perfect linux is, how much real-world software and hardware works on linux and how with linux any regular grandma and grandpa who knows nothing about programming go in and hack the kernel and make millions of changes to make it the most grand Operating system that runs any software and make it so that there are no Kernel panics and it supports all hardware

I like to take my popcorn straight from the microwwave, put it in a bowl and sprinkle it with parmesan cheese and garlic and then put it back in the microwave for about 15 seconds to melt the parmesan. How do ya'll use the hot sauce on your corn?

Mix it in with the butter, then salt the heck out of it.

As a business If you are using 100% Linux, or 100% Apple, ore 100% Sun or 100% apple you are locked into that. All of the software you have purchased, and a great majority of the hardware is tied into that OS.

If you are building an all linux system you carefully choose hardware that is compatible with Linux. This means limiting the confines within you purchase network cards, video cards and motherboards and other peripherals. And yes companies around the world do this. Every company that is pro Linux that I've worked has a dedicated list that they buy from and they have a list of hardware they've tried and had major incompatabilities with.

Mac hardware - you have no choice - you know where you are getting your computers from. You don't have a choice. You are locked into a single vendor.

Windows users have the largest selection because all hardware vendors target the largest audience . In cases like this contracts are usually awarded to vendors who make some sort of deal.

So you tell me who is "locked in" to hardware?

Mix it in with the butter, then salt the heck out of it.

I prefer to sauce and butter as separate actions. Just shake the sauce over the corn for a few minutes, NO mixing - I like the random variations in heat intensity.

And what's this talk about microwaves? Air popper for me. More control over the end product that way.

I prefer to sauce and butter as separate actions. Just shake the sauce over the corn for a few minutes, NO mixing - I like the random variations in heat intensity.

And what's this talk about microwaves? Air popper for me. More control over the end product that way.
Hah air poppers. I've not used or seen one of thise in almost 2 Decades.

Bet your car still has a crank too, eh? :)

As a business If you are using 100% Linux, or 100% Apple, ore 100% Sun or 100% apple you are locked into that unless you feel like using wine, or any number of OSX adaptations for linux. All of the software you have purchased or downloaded for free under the GNU license, and a great majority of the hardware is tied into that OS.

If you are building an all linux system you carefully choose hardware that is compatible with Linux, though these days there's enormous community support and a compatibility base that rivals Windows in some areas, and surpasses it in others. This means limiting the confines within you purchase network cards, video cards and motherboards and other peripherals. And yes companies around the world do this. Every company that is pro Linux that I've worked has a dedicated list that they buy from and they have a list of hardware they've tried and had major incompatabilities with. I have a list of hardware that's incompatible with Windows - including the Hewlett-packard all-in-one printer next to me. I have the official windows drivers, but THIS VERSION of windows just doesn't work with it. No possible fix except a new OS.

Mac hardware - you have no choice - you know where you are getting your computers from. You don't have a choice. You are locked into a single vendor.

Windows users have the largest selection because all hardware vendors target the largest audience . In cases like this contracts are usually awarded to vendors who make some sort of deal. The Linux Foundation offers free driver development to all hardware vendors. If that's not enough, the user community, by and large more programming-savvy than the Windows community, has put together solutions for just about anything you could desire.

So you tell me who is "locked in" to hardware?

That would be you.

Bet your car still has a crank too, eh? :)
My dad has 2 tractors that have cranks. Does that count?

I prefer to sauce and butter as separate actions. Just shake the sauce over the corn for a few minutes, NO mixing - I like the random variations in heat intensity.

And what's this talk about microwaves? Air popper for me. More control over the end product that way.

We had an air popper disaster last night. Someone put 2 cups of seeds in. There was a lot of popcorn.

My dad has 2 tractors that have cranks. Does that count?
Close enough. :lol:

I prefer to sauce and butter as separate actions. Just shake the sauce over the corn for a few minutes, NO mixing - I like the random variations in heat intensity.

And what's this talk about microwaves? Air popper for me. More control over the end product that way.
I miss my air popper. Back in the day I also had a microwave popper that would pop without oil. I need to get one of those, as I am a popcorn addict and really do not need all the chemicals they put in the microwave bagged stuff.

That would be you.
That's so ridiculous and fantasy world it's not even worth picking it apart and seeing how it applies in the real world.

Welcome to the land of Narnia, eatadonut. We hope you enjoy your stay in fantasyland.

Bet your car still has a crank too, eh? :)
If I am driving, mine has a crank behind the wheel. I also love the comic strip "Crankshaft"

That's so ridiculous and fantasy world it's not even worth picking it apart and seeing how it applies in the real world.

Welcome to the land of Narnia, eatadonut. We hope you enjoy your stay in fantasyland.

Excuse me while I engage in the type of argument you apparently enjoy:

Whatever.

I've seen those issues and from what i've seen Microsoft is trying to handle those as best as you can. They have attempted to make reparations that help ease some of those problems If you as a company have problem with licensing issues you take it up with whomever and you make sure that there is a resolution that is agreeable by both sides. If you just bend over and say, yes we have to take whatever they say.

And does that warrant what it is being justified for? I personally do not. I've had people nearly murder me and I still talk to them. I'm not going to change how a company operates simply because a company has altered the licensing agreements. That is why large companies have teams of attorneys and it is why you hire people to negotiate. Companies such as Microsoft want to keep individuals and customers happy and if you as a company let them know that there are.

These rules apply to numerous other companies that pull the same tricks. It also applies to the real world whether it's a construction company, insurance company or etc. Because they all pull these tricks and you have to deal with them as best as you can. And often times you cannot and would not restructure your life simply because you did not feel the need to negotiate with the company or bring a team of attornees and say.. Because the latter did work with Microsoft. Microsoft made amends to their SAS agreement that extended this. Whether this satisfied everybody, I'm sure it's not. This world is never happy unless they get everything they want, and have their own version of reality reaffirmed and everybody else does not get what they want.

Top managment and the BOD made the decision - we had to put together a 5 year migration plan to move away from Microsoft. Microsoft did NOTHING to resolve their concerns - other than to bully, threaten and make further empty promises, so they could see no reason the spend even more money by litigating, rather they voted with their feet as other companies have and will continue to do until MS gets their heads out of their butts. Phase one of the plan was complete when I left...all company servers now run on Linux/Unix and utilize non-MS application/web/database servers and all applications written in MS technologies have been ported to other technologies. Phase 2 is replacement of MS Office with Open Office and IE with FireFox, as well as replacement of other assorted MS specific apps normally bundled with Windows with open source alternatives. Final, optional phase will be replacement of workstation OSs with Linux or Mac (which is now pretty much a Unix flavor and runs on x86.
Bottom line, ongoing software licensing fees will be reduced by 50%, AFTER factoring in costs of training and retraining.

Heh

we had an air popper, used it so much we burned it out :D -- moved to the old-fashioned kettle with a crank and everything. Made better popcorn too....

You can get a Popcorn OS for Linux.
You can only get Popcorn e-mail client with Windows.

Heh

You didn't know that Microsoft won't negotiate?

Top managment and the BOD made the decision - we had to put together a 5 year migration plan to move away from Microsoft. Microsoft did NOTHING to resolve their concerns - other than to bully, threaten and make further empty promises, so they could see no reason the spend even more money by litigating, rather they voted with their feet as other companies have and will continue to do until MS gets their heads out of their butts. Phase one of the plan was complete when I left...all company servers now run on Linux/Unix and utilize non-MS application/web/database servers and all applications written in MS technologies have been ported to other technologies. Phase 2 is replacement of MS Office with Open Office and IE with FireFox, as well as replacement of other assorted MS specific apps normally bundled with Windows with open source alternatives. Final, optional phase will be replacement of workstation OSs with Linux or Mac (which is now pretty much a Unix flavor and runs on x86.
Bottom line, ongoing software licensing fees will be reduced by 50%, AFTER factoring in costs of training and retraining.
Well hopefully yours went well.
I have a humorous situation where a llarge bank didn't want to license PGP so instead asked us, whom they had consulted to develop a solution for them - to use the open source PGP. We billed almost 10k worth trying to fix bugs with the open source PGP, until we finally told tdhem we were purchasing a 3rd party PGP control, one of our choice and billed the cost of licensing the PGP control and the $10k worth of development.

Althyough, on the flip-side I can see where a company can easily make up alot of money - because for the most part most salaries i've been offered, where companies were not capable of shelling out money for software licenses, were usually 1/2 to 1/3 what I've made elsewhere, while taking on more administrative, troubleshooting and development roles. So lower average wages for lower echelon, coupled with free software - I suppose a company could perhaps save money while sacrificing other things - which aren't really sacrifices if one is willing to give them up.

You didn't know that Microsoft won't negotiate?
I know they and other companies negotiate. I've seen them do it and I've even done it a few times myself.
I've gotten numerous things from comapneis, cinluding Microsoft that I was promised, while Ive seen people who were entitled to the same amount or more get nothing either because they did not know how to negotiate or did not bother and instead found complaining about how they got raped with no lube to be a more proactive solution.

As a business If you are using 100% Linux, or 100% Apple, ore 100% Sun or 100% apple you are locked into that. All of the software you have purchased, and a great majority of the hardware is tied into that OS.

If you are building an all linux system you carefully choose hardware that is compatible with Linux. This means limiting the confines within you purchase network cards, video cards and motherboards and other peripherals. And yes companies around the world do this. Every company that is pro Linux that I've worked has a dedicated list that they buy from and they have a list of hardware they've tried and had major incompatabilities with.

Mac hardware - you have no choice - you know where you are getting your computers from. You don't have a choice. You are locked into a single vendor.

Windows users have the largest selection because all hardware vendors target the largest audience . In cases like this contracts are usually awarded to vendors who make some sort of deal.

So you tell me who is "locked in" to hardware?

TG, you're high man. Plenty of hardware works fine on Linux...and in case you haven't heard, the Unix-based Mac OS can now run on X86 boxes. I wouldn't touch Novell with a ten foot poll and I ain't a big fan of Sun or Oracle either. Point is you CAN run a mixed environment and not be totally dependent on one vendor for OS (server & work station), application/web/database servers, communication, networking & directory services, office productivity apps, anti-virus/spam, security, firewall, etc. MS sells their 'integration' of all of these as the main reason they stand above the rest, but buying into that locks you into them. I've been watching the trend for some years now...MS' days of dominance are coming to an end, as usually happens to any empire that over-extends itself.

TG, you're high man. Plenty of hardware works fine on Linux...and in case you haven't heard, the Unix-based Mac OS can now run on X86 boxes. I wouldn't touch Novell with a ten foot poll and I ain't a big fan of Sun or Oracle either.
That's how i know that nobody here has read what i said and instead goes off on their high horse about how Microsoft is evil, everything they do is evil and everything they do locks you in to their solution and nobody else locks you into their solution. I've put in quite a few past and present tense verbs to reflect the current and the past Mac situation.
P.S. Most companies that are locked into Mac hardware and software are locked into the past with a majority of so today won't have a major effect on these companies until I'd say at least 3 years. 3-6 years is the average technology roll over, with companies that are pinched for money extending their hardware and software as long as possible



Point is you CAN run a mixed environment and not be totally dependent on one vendor for OS (server & work station), application/web/database servers, communication, networking & directory services, office productivity apps, anti-virus/spam, security, firewall, etc. MS sells their 'integration' of all of these as the main reason they stand above the rest, but buying into that locks you into them. I've been watching the trend for some years now...MS' days of dominance are coming to an end, as usually happens to any empire that over-extends itself.
Yep, I've worked with several of these. In fact my quit eironic open source PGP rqeuirement was with the bank. The bank, used PHP/Linux/Mysql for everything internal. When this new project came up they talked it over and they deemed that given the time constraints it would be best suited to put a windows box on their network and develop this solution on windows . Ironically the system connected a PHP/MySql/Linux world to a Mac world/Windows world (who had come to the same conclusion as the bank on a wider scale).

Althyough, on the flip-side I can see where a company can easily make up alot of money - because for the most part most salaries i've been offered, where companies were not capable of shelling out money for software licenses, were usually 1/2 to 1/3 what I've made elsewhere, while taking on more administrative, troubleshooting and development roles. So lower average wages for lower echelon, coupled with free software - I suppose a company could perhaps save money while sacrificing other things - which aren't really sacrifices if one is willing to give them up.

Oh come on now....MS techies are a dime a dozen and make a lower wage than their peers in the Unix/Linux world. THAT is a fact. Any idiot can become MS certified...I should know, I'm one of those idiots. I was also one of their MVPs back in the days of 95/98 and IE3/4. I used to drink the MS koolaid...and as a tech or developer it was nice...but then I moved into management and saw the business side of the equation, which isn't pretty.

FACT - after the network, servers and apps were switched over, we were able to reduce the total size of our IT support staff, increase the salaries of those who remained, and provide better service levels (as documented by reporting metrics established long before the migration).

Dude, don't drink to much of MS koolaid...they don't want the notion that we can live just fine without them to propagate because such a thing will lead to the doom of their goal of being everything to everybody...but guess what, too late. ;)

You need to brush up on what's available for Linux pal. ;)

Can you answer my original question...have you run an IT department and had to deal with a half-million dollar annual MS Licensing agreement? Indeed, have you ever been called on the carpet to explain to top management why you are paying for a new multiyear agreement when the terms of the old agreement have not even been met...ie. why MS can unilaterally decide that XP SP2 fulfills their obligation of providing a new OS release, rather than Vista, as originally promised? If you've walked a mile in those shoes, you'll understand exactly where I am coming from.

I can, I have to every few months (exec's have a short term memory), explain why it is costing so much for SA and Open. I have actually let the process expire (2 days from now) and will repurchase all of the new stuff in 3 or 4 years (or whenever the second gen comes out) right now Vista is too bloated and too secure (go figure) to run most software within my company. IE 7 isn't compatible with a single web app I am mandated to use, Vista would require another hardware upgrade, I just spent 200,000$ on all new client pc's 1 year ago.

Office 2007 with the new sharepoint, now those are some interesting/exciting tools. Vista...it just seems like another windows 95...bloated but pretty.

As for getting what I deserved from microsoft, I got everything I was entitled to with my SA. So no complaints there. We purchased the SA just at the right time, 2 different gens of windows and office have come out within my term.

Oh come on now....MS techies are a dime a dozen and make a lower wage than their peers in the Unix/Linux world. THAT is a fact. Any idiot can become MS certified...I should know, I'm one of those idiots. I was also one of their MVPs back in the days of 95/98 and IE3/4. I used to drink the MS koolaid...and as a tech or developer it was nice...but then I moved into management and saw the business side of the equation, which isn't pretty.


Ya the roi is huge for *nix. I can't really say the same for windows. I use a lot of windows servers here simply because this particular company decided it wasn't in there best interest to use a system that would require a hire paid tech to come in and fix it, if I ever decide to leave. But I pitty the fool who comes in, ms certified, and tries to understand how to setup and use my monitoring tools and my firewall. Both are *nix and box smoke the windows equivelant.



FACT - after the network, servers and apps were switched over, we were able to reduce the total size of our IT support staff, increase the salaries of those who remained, and provide better service levels (as documented by reporting metrics established long before the migration).


I agree completely. I installed a couple of monitoring tools, and a more secure firewall, that was able to eliminate 2 full time positions. The "box" pages me when **** hits the fan. With my little evdo nic I can connect from anywhere in the world and fix the problem, usually before anyone onsite realizes.

I work in the advertising/publishing/print arena, am a died in the wool PC guy who works on a MAC.
All I know is that when MS says oh some machines over a YEAR OLD might not run Vista. Talk about bum butting the HW industry. They did the same thing when 98 was 2000-me etc to finally rest at XP.
MS has always been about licensing.... ahem..that's how they made their money in the first place, not from anything they made, ever.

Each OS has it drawbacks but by far, MS is the be all end all of 'screw the user' in terms of what you get.

open source PGP for banking?..... that sounds like a disaster of epic proportions in the making.