Classic & Vintage - Why so little interest in old steel MTB/frames?s

This isn't exactly vintage, but since there are lots of folks on this forum that buy oldish bikes, this is a good place to start.
Why do you think there is so little interest in older,steel(DB Chrome moly-probably japanese tange etc) late 80's mid 90's MTB frames,and bikes?
I just "won" a couple of early mid 90's Gary Fisher steel MTB frames.They are "pre trek" vintage(nothing wrong with Trek that I can see). I'm pretty sure they are typical Chrome Moly DB frames-maybe Tange, but probably Japanese tubing. No one else bid on the Wahoo and a Koo Koo Hoo something or other frames.They went for $35 and $20 with $30(total) shipping. Granted, this is $42 each, but that seems cheap for a decent frame (paint not so good but not dented).
Why no interest? I doubt that the rear dropouts are horizontal,so you couldn't do an easy SS adaptation. They do make very good all around street, trail,grass, median, bikes.You get a decent ride, not too heavy(about 8lbs for a frame fork )durable, they can take large tires,so you get a soft ride, if you want, they take cantilever or V-brakes so you can actually stop-not like older street bikes with the old caliper brakes.In general they are more versatile than the older road bike frames.They usually have bigger diameter tubes, so they aren't as elegant looking as older road bikes.They do have a slightly "chunky" look to them.
It looks like older MTBs are being ignored in the "steel is real" movement.Maybe it is the vertical dropouts.Older road bikes usually had hori. dropouts,so they make good SS starting points.
Thanks,
Charlie

I've often wondered about this, myself. I've had many good rigid frame mtb's pass through my hands - Trek, Univega, Peugeot, REI, Specialized, Giant... to name a few.

All good, sturdy bikes that rode well. The most I could ever get for a really nice one was $100, and that was only once or twice. It's a head-scratcher all right, but they seem stuck in the $60-$80 range, and dropping.

I would imagine that configured right they would make dandy commute/campus bikes.

I'm not into mountainbikes, but I'd guess early Breeze or early Ritchey built Fishers would be quite valuable.

I have two "vintage," MTBs. One is a 1994 Schwinn Sidewinder (see the avatar), and one is a 1996-ish Trek 830 Mountain Trek. I bought the Schwinn new, in a bike shop, and it has the very heavy Hi-Ten Steel frame. The Trek, I just bought recently, and it has the lighter weight chromoly frame. I bought the Trek, because my husband has one, and I love it, but it's WAY too big for me. Anyway, I love both bikes for different reasons. I refer to the heavyweight Schwinn as "my jeep," and it feels like it would take on anything. I use the lighter weight Trek as my "road," bike, and it flies! I wouldn't take anything for either one of them. They are both in fabulous shape, have been well taken care of, and haven't been abused. I'm not sure why you don't see much interest in these older MTB's. I do wonder if it's because they aren't that old yet.

I would imagine that configured right they would make dandy commute/campus bikes.


I outfitted my old Trek 850 as best I could as a commuter, but it just didn't cut the mustard when my commute went from 9 to 15 miles. On my road bike I get to work quicker and less fatiged.

I love the SS mountain bike I keep at work, it's quick, rugged and responsive. It's perfect for those lunch time trips to the library, post office, grocery store or whatever. It's also less likely to get swiped when I leave it locked up for long periods of time. Who want's a dirty, purple, suspension-less mountain bike without any gears? One that says Butt instead of Butte on the top tube.

So yeah, for short commutes and coffee shop/bar bikes they're great. I didn't like mine on my longer commute.

I've often wondered about this, myself. I've had many good rigid frame mtb's pass through my hands - Trek, Univega, Peugeot, REI, Specialized, Giant... to name a few.

All good, sturdy bikes that rode well. The most I could ever get for a really nice one was $100, and that was only once or twice. It's a head-scratcher all right, but they seem stuck in the $60-$80 range, and dropping.

I would imagine that configured right they would make dandy commute/campus bikes.

This reply has nothing to do with the topic, but I do have to tell you that I thought of your signature quote when I was in a bike shop the other day, and the salesperson insisted on showing me a $2000+ carbon fiber frame bike. My newest bike would be my 1996-ish Trek 830 Mountain Trek MTB. So, I just had to laugh and think of your signature when the guy was showing me that $2000 bike that was so lightweight I almost threw it over my shoulder, by accident, when he had me pick it up!:D

So yeah, for short commutes and coffee shop/bar bikes they're great. I didn't like mine on my longer commute.

Shows what I know. I've only ever used one on fire roads, and only for a few miles at a time at best.

I've been really itching for some vintage mountain bikes - didn't realize they went that cheap. Maybe the reason that more people get jazzed about vintage road bikes is that road bikes were more popular when they were growing up? I was a little too young for the bike-boom, but definitely remember the mountain bike revolution. I guess I'm going out on a limb to suggest that most collectors of vintage lightweights grew up salivating over the Raleigh, Cinelli, etc catalogs the same way I carried Cannondale and Kona literature around. Furthermore, even in a relatively poor bike-market (and one that should skew to mtn bikes), I see a whole lot more vintage road bikes for sale than mountain bikes. I don't know if this is because people aren't quite ready to get rid of their old mtn bikes yet, if they still look enough like the bikes at wal*mart to not feel dated, or what.

At any rate....anyone who wants to drop your vintage mountain bikes (or yellow Cannondale p-bone forks) off in West Virginia, please feel free. I'd be happy to give them a good home.

Few people are interested in buying rigid mtbs for mountainbiking purposes. Unless they're practically untouched and need no work there's no reason, speaking purely in terms of utility, in fixing up and old mtb for actual mountainbiking. You could spend the same amount of $$ and get something with a suspension fork.

Buying frames- same thing as not buying a complete bike- if you're going to be mountainbiking, why spend the $$ on old tech? Frames w/ horiz. dropouts are the exception and do well because of ss. If you're buying a frame for commuting or street riding, I don't think mtb's make much sense if you have experience on a variety of bikes. I built up a rigid mtb for commuting and now, after I've had a couple other bikes for a while, don't ever ride the mtb any more. It sucks. The smaller wheels give a harsher ride and are less efficient, and it's tough to get a comfortable position that's aggressive enough for city traffic. It rides like a mtb. I know a lot of people do ride mtbs for commuting but just talking bare frame buying, I don't know that mtbs would be the first choice.

And in general I think they tend to be unnattractive to people who may not know bikes but just want something reliable. The graphics, paint schemes, and just how they look after 10, 20 years of wear and tear, they tend to look pretty dated. I love mtbs but in general, old ones look like crap usually.

I'm not familiar with the Wahoo but the Hoo-Koo-E-Koo was a great mid-range model in the late 1980s. When I was looking at this model, it used True Temper tubing, but it may well have switched to Tange MTB later. I know the Montare came with Tange around the same era.

I have a couple of ideas why vintage ATBs are not as popular as raod bicycles:

1. Used ATB and framesframes arre a more risky purchase, as they usually were ridden harderr.

2. The ATB has evolved more than the road bicycle over the same period. Modern geometry is totally different and suspension is a must have for most riders. A vintage ATB is a far grreater liability than a vintage road bicycle in keeping up with your buddies and creature comforts.

3. The vintage bicycle has it's appeal primarily to older riders, collectors or those in search of inexpensive trasnsportaion. In the case of older riders, the trails are often just big a toll on the older body, especially without suspension. For collectors, it's hard to find them in good condition and even harder to find them with OEM parts, as usually something broke and got replaced at one point or another. They do make good cheap transportation, but here they are up aginst the department store bikes, where $100 can get you suspension.

I currently have three near vintage ATBs, pre-dating 1990. One is my commuter and a great one at that. The other got bashed up so badly over three years of competition that it is an almost hopeless restoration project. The last is hoplessly outdated and just not fun to ride anymore.

Few people are interested in buying rigid mtb's for mountainbiking purposes. Unless they're practically untouched and need no work there's no reason, speaking purely in terms of utility, in fixing up and old mtb for actual mountainbiking. You could spend the same amount of $$ and get something with a suspension fork.

.........SNIPPERROO.......

....If you're buying a frame for commuting or street riding, I don't think mtb's make much sense if you have experience on a variety of bikes. I built up a rigid mtb for commuting and now, after I've had a couple other bikes for a while, don't ever ride the mtb any more. It sucks. The smaller wheels give a harsher ride and are less efficient, and it's tough to get a comfortable position that's aggressive enough for city traffic. It rides like a mtb.

Over time I've had two separate rigid frame mtb's for personal use. I bought the first, and used it on dirt roads. Sold it and bought another, lighter one for the same purpose. Sold it, and bought one with suspension. Sold that one to a friend, and bought another hard-tail. Even for fire roads, the front suspension bikes were way better to ride. And they didn't cost much - The first, a used Gary Fisher Mamba, I got off of CL for $100. The second, a 2003 Giant Yukon, I got of of CL again for $120. A used hard-tail is only slightly more than a used rigid - so why bother?

Well, for commuting, maybe? Now - I have no experience commuting on a rigid mtb, but I thought they would be good for that. Two of you have related that in your experience, they're not.

There you go.....

My first MTB has come back home to roost:eek: :D In 1992 or so I bought a Giant Iguana. It was a great bike to introduce me to fire trail riding. I rode the crap out of it for a couple of years, then converted it to a commuter and bought a Haro. The Haro left a long time ago, the Giant was stolen, recovered, sold, stolen, recovered and now has been gifted back to me:rolleyes: It is still in pretty decent shape for all it has been thru. I don't ride the rough stuff anymore, but I do have an old Mongoose with a suspension fork that I do ride around the farm on occasion.

Aaron:)

I'll have to second the second point made by T-Mar. While I like the idea of owning a vintage mtn. bike, I don't find that they're as fun to ride. And I don't like the idea of collecting and never riding. The big thing for me is the front suspension. I have a '95 Ibis that I thought would be cool to set up as a rigid. I had fun building it back up, but after one ride I swapped out the fork for a squishy. It's still running thumbies though (in friction no less). On the other hand, I have just as much fun riding my '80s trek as I do my ti serotta. While there have been many improvements in road I think there have been many more in mtn that for me makes a lot of difference in actual riding.

Not sure why they're not more popular... they make great bike path and commuter bikes. Here's my favorite, a mint '84 Ross chrome Mt. Whitney, photo taken 15 minutes after purchasing from the original owner a few months ago...

http://www.buggytexas.com/images/MtWhitney5.jpg

That one is a 21" frame, also have a 23" in like condition (just a bit too big for me). Also have a chrome Mt Hood all original down to the tires, a Paramount Series 50 PDG frame waiting for a full Suntour XC Pro build, and a nice early Specialized Stumpjumper also waiting for me to get off the 'puter and get back to work. :D

PS This thread needs more photos. ;)

Not really classic or vintage, but I have a mid nineties Trek 820 I commuted on for a year or so. Got it in near immaculate condition for $80 iirc. Not the fastest thing, but very durable, easy to ride, and could take the half mile 8% grade I had np. If my commute was more than 10 miles I woulda been singing a different song, but at 7-10 each way with some hills, it wasn't too bad.

Thanks for the response.
I was a bit unclear. One of the bikes has a suspension fork on it, one is rigid on both ends. The red bike in this picture rides a bit rough with the wheel/tire you see, however with a Nanoraptor-2.15" high volume tire at 40 psi it rides much softer.
I'm a full time wimp, and not one bit into a rough riding bike. I have no compunction at all about putting a suspension fork on a bike designed for a rigid fork.The Green bike-Diamondback ascent EX-came to me with a suspension fork, but I'm pretty sure it was born rigid.I put this waaaay long 120mm travel, coil spring fork on it.It does unweight the front end a bit , but that is a plus on our crummy , potholed roads.The overlong fork does give it a alternative bike look.
Cheapo suspension forks are cheap. You can buy an entire cheezy front suspension bike for $10-$20 and it will have a functioning suspension fork that will really take the edge off potholes etc.The bike will have flat tires-but lots of useful parts that can be installed on a better frame.Cheap cranksets don't break,and they work fine.Same story on derailleurs/shifters.
Ebbets- gotta agree-a rigid front is a bit harsh.Now the red bike really isn't bad.I suspect the curve of the fork takes a lot of the sting out of bumps.Rigid fronts with straight forks will loosen your fillings.
Whoonc- I have had several motorcycles that have returned home.Good feeling!
Bigbossman- I'm a fan of suspension forks whether it started life with one or not. However if the rigid fork has enough curve(rake/trail or whatever that is) it really takes the sting out(a big tire helps even more-Schwalbe uses this to sell their Big Apple/Super Moto etc).
T-Mar- thanks for the tip on tubing. The pictures were too poor to read.You are right about them being beaten to death.Those I just bought have loads of scratches/scuff-but the seller says no dents.
Tim-no question they wouldn't be anyones choice now to use as a mtb.I like suspension forks-one has a sus fork. The red bike rides pretty decently-maybe the long curve of the fork is the reason.
Majikman-they are dirt cheap-the price of these frames was the same as the shipping.These other bikes-The green bike cost $73-the red was $20. I added Katrina wheels(but very good Katrina wheels) on the green one.I then put the green ones on the red one. They are orphans-no one wants old mtbs-even with DB steel frames.
DynamicD- $2000?? I like nice stuff-but I buy used now. I gotta admit-light is nice(but expensive).Glad to hear that someone else really like the way they ride. I think maybe the straight forks on many rigid bikes give them the crummy ride rap.The red bike rides very nicely-big curve in the fork.
Kemmer-I just took the green one to the dollar store-3 miles roundtrip. It is a bit ugly-makes it less thief worthy. Let me know if you are still interested in selling the blue girls bike when you get a chance.
dbakl-It would have to have some sort of provenance to be worth what some older road bikes are worth. A $700 1985 road bike-Trek with 531 tubing- might be worth $250+ a $1000 1990 mtb might be worth $100. The trek Y-Bikes-carbon cost $2000+ in late 90's-they are worth maybe $300.
McDave-I love chrome bikes-very nice!!!
Lyeinyoureye-That is how I use them-few miles here and there-no 20 mile marathons-rarely more than 5-7 miles.
The frames coming in are/were higher end than these two, but these are DB Chrome moly also.I doubt they are actually better in any measurable way..
Thanks all,
Charlie

Why do you think there is so little interest in older,steel(DB Chrome moly-probably japanese tange etc) late 80's mid 90's MTB frames,and bikes?
I just "won" a couple of early mid 90's Gary Fisher steel MTB frames. I'm pretty sure they are typical Chrome Moly DB frames-maybe Tange, but probably Japanese tubing. No one else bid on the Wahoo and a Koo Koo Hoo something or other frames.They went for $35 and $20 with $30(total) shipping. Granted, this is $42 each, but that seems cheap for a decent frame (paint not so good but not dented).
Why no interest?
Couldn't agree with you more Charlie. My first bike when I returned to cycling was a 88 Nishiki Ariel. I purchased it along with a 88 Hoo Koo E Koo from the original owner. The Nishiki has been modified to add a suspension fork and is going through another round of changes as I post this. My first frame up build is almost complete. It too is a old, chromoly Nishiki MTB. It's a maximum clearance, Cunningham designed frame from 1990 or 91 complete with a period correct, SCOTT, Clark Kent suspension fork. Pics will be posted on the C&V forum soon. These are fun bikes to build and to ride.
I've posted pics of the 88 Nishiki below. If I find pictures of the Hoo Koo E Koo, I'll post them on this thread.
By the way, the GF Hoo Koo E Koo tubing is True Temper.

I got a '94 Trek 830 frame off ebay for cheap a little over a year ago. It was purchased to replace my full suspension Magna Ponderous Overweight Speciale. Poguemahone set me up with wheels and some drivetrain components. You won't catch me riding on especially rugged terrain, so a bike with a suspension is merely a waste of cycling efficiency.

Right after I got that, I found a full Trek (I think it's a '96 850, but I never could get a positive ID on it) sitting outside the thrift store. Cost me $5.34 and all it needed was a tune-up and new shifters (well it really could use a paint job too). I'm waiting for my son to tell me he doesn't want it, and then eventually I'll send it to Dr. D for paint.

I don't ride mine much, but it is decent on the road (only lose about 2 mph), and perfect for trail riding with the scouts.

I suspect that part of the reason they're not popular (beyond what some have already mentioned), is that they lack the "bling factor" that a gorgeous road bike has. I've yet to see a MTB with fancy lugs, the forks are chunky and clunky, it actually pays to leave the dork disk on, and they tend to get dirty in a hurry. I'm content with what I have, and unless I wreck mine, or it gets stolen, I don't imagine I'll feel like getting another MTB.

Now road bikes on the other hand... :) :)

It all depends on the tubing the bike is made from. I have a Bridgestone MB-6 from the late 80s. I love this bike. Fairly lightweight made frome Tange MTB tubing. Bikes like this are quite commonplace and the frame would probably go for the price range you are talking about. That is quite a good deal considering the quality you are talking about.

However, if you are talking about steel frames made from Tange Prestige, much lighter weight with the same strength and stiffness, the bikes go for much more. The bikes would be like Bridgestone MB-1s, Specialized Stumpjumpers, and Univega Alpinas. These bikes are not quite so commonplace. I would love to have one but I can't quite justify the $400 to $500 and even higher prices that they often get. Overall the the price has to do much more with supply and demand than the increase in quality.

Also responding to T-mar. My MB-6 was ridden hard for many years before I bought it. I have ridden it hard for almost 10 years. I can't see buying this frame any more riskier than buying a quality old road frame. It is good to go for many more years the same way a quality road frame would be. It just happens to be a little bit heavier than Tange Prestige or Reynolds 531.

It might not have made much difference in the price of the bikes you're talking about, phoebeisis, but the better Fishers were built in California during the '80's, but by the very early nineties Fisher was nearly bankrupt and the brand was sold, and for a couple of years I believe the bikes were built in Taiwan (not sure who actually bought the brand). During this time, I don't believe Gary Fisher had anything to do with Fisher bikes (he simply sold the brand and got out), and these bikes (maybe '91, '92?) were considered a low point for Fishers. I believe it was '93 that Trek bought the Fisher brand, and hired Gary Fisher.

Of all the sellouts I've ever heard of in the bike business, I've always thought Trek's buying of Fisher, and just as importantly hiring Gary Fisher, made quite a bit of sense. Gary Fisher really is an innovator when it comes to mountain bikes, a true "idea man" if you will. Problem was, he sometimes had difficulties producing the actual bikes. With Trek's production capability and Gary Fisher still making real contributions in terms of bike design, I think the Trek-Fisher relationship is a very good one.

As for why the average old mtb doesn't get much respect on the used market, I think there are several reasons. Most of the bikes aren't lugged (which is what folks really want in old steel bikes), and generally speaking they're not particularly elegant. Combine that with the fact that a new mountain bike is, functionally speaking, worlds better than an old fully rigid mountain bike, and if it's an old mountain bike that's truly been used for mountain biking, it's likely beat to hell. Personally speaking, I've never actually worn out a road bike. I've worn out several mountain bikes.

Again, not sure if this would have made much difference as far as price for the bikes you're talking about, but as T-Mar says the Hoo Koo E Koo model has always been a decent bike, but at least in recent years the Wahoo has been a very low end model, not something I would even call a real mountain bike-

I'm a very big fan of the Raleigh Technium's that were made in Seattle/Kent, WA USA


This is my vintage 1991 super foul weather/blizzard/deep powder/freezing rain bike:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/bigwoo2/CIMG0232.jpg

Decrease tire pressure in deep powder and it rides like a dream;)

It was one of the very last Technium's w/ Easton 6000 E9 4130 composite....

1. Used ATB and frames are a more risky purchase, as they usually were ridden harder.

2. The ATB has evolved more than the road bicycle over the same period. Modern geometry is totally different and suspension is a must have for most riders. A vintage ATB is a far greater liability than a vintage road bicycle in keeping up with your buddies and creature comforts.


So, here's a spot where i have some thoughts. Most of the older mountain bikes I scrounge or have owned (like my 1992 puegot el cheapo midrange in spain. it was yellow, fast, and didn't hate cobblestones. of course, it had these crazy fat 1.6 inch hybrid tires and straight bars and all sorts of weird stuff) anyway, most of the really old stuff has a geometry closer to a 3 speed utility bike than not. In fact, most of the suggestions that come up for the nicer old ones I do find (like that bridgestone in the other thread) involve making a 5,6,7 speed or ss utility bike. I think that modern MTBs- as opposed to comfort bikes, city bikes, and walmartisms (all of which look similar) have a WORSE level of comfort for anything other than out of saddle rough trails or brush riding than the original "beefed up almost road bike" frames.

Like my mesa runner :)


3. The vintage bicycle has it's appeal primarily to older riders, collectors or those in search of inexpensive trasnsportaion. In the case of older riders, the trails are often just big a toll on the older body, especially without suspension. For collectors, it's hard to find them in good condition and even harder to find them with OEM parts, as usually something broke and got replaced at one point or another. They do make good cheap transportation, but here they are up aginst the department store bikes, where $100 can get you suspension.


$100 isn't going to get you suspension that's worth ANYTHING other than an extra 6 pounds. It WILL, however, get you a 32 pound aluminum bike at target! (Next, if you must know. and it might weigh more stock, this one already had upgraded tires)

I don't know jack aboutMTB collecting, but a lot of classic and vintage road frames are done for style and transportation, which older MTBs can supply- if the riders know enough. I think education and awareness are far too low. The people who consider mountain bikes decent for transportation - and I've lived in parts of arizona and california, as well as islands in pueget sound that all make a mtb with moustache or inverted bars really nice- well, too many of these people don't knoow from target and walmart. If you don't *know* any better, how are you going to know that the horizontal drop fuji in my yard, or the trek 800 hardtail oldie, are better bikes than the roadmaster $70 special.


The older bikes Are going to be more likely to have horizontal drops in my experience, more utilitarian geometry, and less obnoxiously overdone tires. (seriously, 2.5 inch tires? It doesn't rain that much in seattle!)



I think that for a lot of the less experienced gearheads and budding junkpile recyclers, garage sale commuters, mountain bike means half assed comfort bike or horrid walmart "suspension" frame. I've got a perfectly decent 17.5 inch Giant upland (2000 model) with decent Davis area tires, completely new grease and cable job, good seat- and I can't as much for it as a lowest end roadmaster. Go figure.


I guess it's good news for us now. Start gathering ye the cheapest good frames, in another 3 years everyone will discover them and they'll triple in price and STILL be cheaper than a uo8 frame!

I've got a cromoly specialized with Ritchey Tom Slicks thatn I used to use to commute when I still thought a road bike couldn't handle the 6 miles of gravel road into town.

These days I hardly ever ride the mt bike off the farm. I can just go faster with less effort on my road bikes.

I see plenty of the MTB's when I'm out and about, but rarely consider buying them. I've only bought two, the first a Schwinn Woodlands with a computer on it I bought for $7 -- which I somehow sold for $90, and the second a first year issue of a Fisher Hoo Koo E Koo in nice shape, which I put on the For Sale thread a while back and only got one response.

I picked up at a yard sale last spring two custom built late '80s, lugged, double butted, CroMol MTBs, a men's and a women's. I've kept the women's as a spare bike for visitors and my wife has it on the trainer for the winter. I decided to have fun with men's which has highend Suntour and Shimano components. I've transformed it into my winter "Snow Cycle" with studded tires. My primary plan was to ride it on snowmobile trails. Unfortunately, we've had so little snow the trails haven't opened. I rode it around a frozen golf course a week ago. The bike worked beautifully--- my toes on the other hand--- like blocks of ice--- but it was 10F with a good bit of wind. Here's a warm weather picture when I completed the conversion.
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p71/pastorbobnlnh/SnowCycleSide4.jpg

I bought this 830 new in 1988. It broke a couple months ago, but it was great century maker and impressed alot of people in that regard.
http://i7.tinypic.com/2d0exvl.jpg

It's components have been swapped over to this '92 Trek 930, so it lives on.
http://i5.tinypic.com/2vhxf79.jpg

I think alot of people are hyped into a certian type of bike. Bike shops do this. They're not going to advise someone to go to the thrift store and look for a narrow year, make, and model, then rebuild it.

Except for a lot bonded Miyatas, I also have several steel MTBs:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/42/84522324_a7a9d0ccb0_b.jpg
Fat Chance Yo Eddy!. This one is from 1995, but the Yo Eddy! was introduced late '89. My Yo is made with TT OX3. I've seen mint frames beeing sold for over $1000 and Yo forks for $700, so in this case I think it is not fair to say they are unpopular.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/133/318789684_eaf9f520ec_b.jpg
1991 Grove Innovations Hard Core. Extremely well made frame, very neat welding. The fat tubing really is steel. True Temper. Mine is powdercoated BRG, but originally they came in very expressive paint. Take a look overhere (http://www.purplelizard.com/GI%202B1%20Hardcore.htm) to see it yourself.

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/54/150373867_3e267b6914_b.jpg
1991 Panasonic MC Comp. E-stay frame from Tange MTB OS. It is my beater bike, though I sometimes doubt who is beating who. It is very sturdy.

Furthermore also have Miyatas like RidgeRunner and ValleyRunner (lugged, spiral spline etc)

I do absolutely think there is some interest for proper steel mountainbikes. Check out www.mtbr.com VRC, www.retrobike.co.uk, www.mtb-new.de Classic and other nations have their own forums.

I think mint, near 'new' old mountainbikes can be found. I did find many over the years.

Old mountainbikes can ride very different. There are crap riding bikes, but also great riding bikes like Ritchey, Breezer, MB1, Miyata RidgeRunner etc

For my riding I do not think much progression has been made since late eighties. Tyres are way improved and there is of course progression made in suspension (if you want suspension), but with an old rig you can still ride circles around s-works and Scalpels.


- Melvin

I've got four rigid steel mountain bikes. All of them are converted for street use.
This is my favorite:
http://thumb9.webshots.net/t/56/56/9/79/69/2846979690068014369opcapm_th.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2846979690068014369opcapm)
It's a 1988 Bridgestone MB-2.

I kind of hate you now, Elev12k. Whaddaya got a Cunningham Indian sitting around somewhere too? An Ibis or two? Maybe a Yeti Ultimate? Sheesh.

Anyway, I think older front-suspension steel mtb's don't count as far as the question of "why aren't peeps into old mtbs?" because they are completely upgradable. True, some have trouble seeing the forest for the trees, but a nice, older steel hardtail, you throw a nice fork on it you've got yourself a bike that'll ride just as well as a newer one, imo. I've got a 90-something Trek 830 frame sitting at home, longing for the day it will hit the trails again. It's tt ox 2? something like that. Nice steel, well made, lightweight, and as soon as I can get a fork it'll be $700 worth of bike for maybe $300 total.

Also cool, collectable bikes, like elev12k has got, don't count. Nishiki Ariels and Aliens still go for decent $$, and try buying a mantis. What don't sell are just plain ol' rigid mtbs, and for pretty good reason. But, all the better for those folks who like them, right? I've got the Miyata Shredder I got almost ready to hit the trails and that's just what I'm gonna do with it, it's a cool bike, but it being brand new was the selling point for me.

Well, it is good to see that the older mtbs have a lot of admirers; not for their use as mtbs of course, but because they are good(and cheap which is REALLY GOOD) all around beat around bikes that make very good,sturdy transportation/fun bikes.
Roccobikes/Elev12k- Why does that Ariel not have the weird frame like others I've seen? Elev12k- who ripped off whom? The Panasonic looks just like an Nisiki Ariel(scott,you there) I recently saw a picture of?

USAZORRO- Yes, the more I look at pictures, the more I see the chunkiness of the MTBs.McDaves and Dirtdrops bikes are kinda' pretty,but that is probably because they are closest to the vintage road bikes.

Russdog63- Why does that name-Bridgestone-keep popping up on Japanese stuff that is/was sold in the USA? Weren't there a bunch of (cheap)early 60's motorcycles-2 strokes-sold by Sears-in the catalog- with the Bridgestone name? Is it a translation of some Japanese name? Tire company name of course? Who was Bridgestone the bike maker? Were/are the MC, bicycles, tires all the same company?

Wellbiked-thanks for the info on Gary Fisher Trek. The seller has very little idea on the dates of these frames- in a week or so I'll be able to eyeball them.

Silversmith-I've been thinking of some Slicks for one of these-maybe 1.5"-not too skinny.

Blankcrows-that is about it-they don't sell for very much-or don't sell period!

Pasterbob- Yeah, we haven't had any snow this year either,of course,I'm in New Orleans, so it isn't as big a deal as NH!! Studded tires-wow!!

JCM-Right-bike shops make $$ selling new bikes, and servicing bikes of relatively recent vintage. They can't keep the tools/expertise to service 20 yo-no $$ in that.Which of us would pay $80 for a "tune up" on our $25 mtb?

Timj-right-Elv12k has some exotic iron(well steel) they really are in a very different class from my old beaters.Heck, they look new, and still look fairly exotic.
Thanks all,
Charlie

Elev12k, that Panasonic is the sweeet! The Fat Chance is super nice too! You've got a really nice collection going with the Miyatas and all.

My on-the-job bike. It's nothing special, but it IS vintage steel. The cranks and brakes have since been upgraded.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p183/top506/Fuji.jpg

There's also a lower-tier GT 'triple triangle' frameset out in the barn and a Ridgerunner in the pipeline for future projects.
Top

top506, I've got a Fuji Thrill--how does it compare lineup-wise with yours?

East Hill

I have no idea; it was yet another dump find. The comps are pretty low-zoot though. At least it has a RD hanger.:D
Maybe someone else here can supply some info, as I missed the whole MTB thing in the '80s and '90s.
Top

Why are our dumps/tips not the glorious places of Maine and New Hampshire? "Tisn't fair.

East Hill

Here is my 1987 Dave Yates fillet brazed with Columbus OR tubing. Slowly restoring it to it's original glory.

I like my 1988 Fuji Mt. Fuji; fully lugged TRIPLE butted frame, Tange tubes, I think, that sticker is lone gone. I bought it in 1995 for $125.00, and to date have put over 25,000 miles on it. She is getting a re-paint and a few upgrades this year.
Also have a Nishiki "Colorado" from the 80's, I bought in 2001. traded a Schwinn roadie bike for it at the Schwinn Bike shop, bought a full suspension bike for parts at a pawn shop for $25.00, put the suspension fork and "V" brakes from the full suspension bike on the Nishiki, and sold the hard nosed soft tail for $65.00. Only have 3,743 miles on the Nishiki, according to the odometer ... I so ashamed ...

Fuji may be able to tell you. They were able to tell me the year my bike was made (1988), where it was in the line up (nothing higher in '88), cost new ($890.00) AND they sent me something like 8 sets of decals (free) for the first re-paint!

Anybody ever put a 3 speed sturmey archer on those mtb's?

I had a Miyata RidgeRunner for years....Loved it! It was stolen 5 yeears ago,and so far has not turned up.(I live in a non bicycle area,so I'm still looking for it!) But It is different than any one I've seen here,Bonded frame as most are,One color (Bright Purple) Different Componets(Stx,Softride Stem,mavic 231/stx wheels,23 in frame) Anyway if it ever comes home it will be the last bike I ever own,This thing was a beast! It put up with everything I dished out,Trails,Touring,running around town,ect.
As far a collectable Mt Bikes go just wait...start grabbing nice ones cuz there folk like me (middle aged freaks) who will be wanting nice OLD Mt Bikes.I own a 05 Novara Bonanza...Nice,sturdy,does everything I ask of it,But It looks like every other Mt Bike!! Now a twenty year old Rockhopper,Powdercoated Purple,all XT,Mt Crank,fenders,racks,riser bars,Softride headstem,48 spoke rear/40 spoke front wheelset,Marathon XP's...you get the idea!

I bought a 92 or 93 can't remember Paramount for $75 bucks from a friend about two years ago. I love it. It's lugged steel and super light.

I just bought a really nice lotus 2000m montain bike, I like the tight geometry.

my winter commuter is a MTB. It used to be my daily rider set up with slicks. The nice thing about an MTB as a commuter is I don't have to think twice about hopping a curb or riding down some stairs. Maybe 700c wheels with 28s would take that kind of abuse, but there's no question those old Arayas with 2" knobbies will.
http://velospace.org/files/DSC_0001.jpg (http://velospace.org/node/1838)

As someone who has been exploring the old MTB market a little bit in the last few months, it strikes me that it is a bit misleading to say they are not as desirable as old road bikes.

Consider that the road bike boom was almost 40 years ago. Compare that the MTB "boom" was probably 15 years ago (and continuing). If you had been searching the streets for used road bikes 20 years ago (say, 1987), most of what you would have found would have been Schwinn electroforged stuff. Maybe some slightly fancier Le Tours, and Worlds and the like. Now that we are farther out from that boom, the market has sort of stabilized with certain "tiers" of bikes. First, there is the really nice old stuff with cool lugs all Camped up. Prices there are several hundred and up. Then, there are the respectable, but not rare things, say, like Trek or Fuji. Maybe almost as nice as the top, but much less bling value. Prices here are pretty variable, but maybe 50-200. Then, there is the Schwinn EF stuff and the like. Almost no value whatsoever.

I think once we get farther away from the MTB boom, we will see this more and more. Right now, the great stuff mght still be owned by the original owners, so it is not really visible on the market. And I would say the second tier stuff is already out there, and worth about what a second tier road bike is worth. And the junk is junk. MTB or road.

Or, put it this way: I think that $200 buys you a pretty darn nice old lugges steel road bike. Not something that will ever be seriously collectable, but very nice. I also think that $200 buys you about the same thing in a MTB.

Sure, there are tons and tons of MTB that go for $10-50. But how many of them will we look back on in 15 years and regret? If you had hoarded scuffed up old Varsities in 1988, your "investment" would not have appreciated much at all in 15 years. I suspect the same will be true of all the $22 dollar MTB's on Ebay.

And, let me come clean: I have bought four such MTB's recently. Not because I think they are such a great bargain, but just because I wanted to build up a couple into bullet proof town bikes on the cheap.

jim

Anybody ever put a 3 speed sturmey archer on those mtb's?


Oh, yeah.

My mesa runner (the fixie) started out as a 3 speed coaster conversion. It was a truly excellent semi rural town bike, but the fixie bug bit. I've done one other off an older fuji frame with horizontals that went to a friend. The geometry is pretty decent for roadster use. Most of the time the clearance is fine for taking stock EA3s and slapping them on, too. I just dumpstered a nice light steel old mtb, but can't find a lick of identifying marks on it, it might get a shimano 3 speed rebuilt into a 26mtb rim with slicks. Haven't decided yet.

Old MTB's do not bring in lots of demand, but some of the parts sure do on ebay. Maybe due to the fact that many folk did not clean the running gear often enough, nor repack as they should.. the siren song of sealed bearings.

Still have my Ritchey.

Also a now old tech AMP B-2, got to love the aircraft "landing gear" front fork.

I read your thread on riding and commuting on mountain bikes, and I have thought about it for a while myself and decided to add some balance here. Personally, I use a mountain bike to commute all over town and I think its way better than my road bikes. The mountain bike that I use most is a Nishiki Backroads, with no front or rear suspension, that I have upgraded with all Shimano XTR 8-speed components. I used to use my old 1975 Eddy Merckx steel road bike with all Campy Super Record components. Eventually, I wore out all the Campy components and kept breaking the Campy Record crank arms that I kept buying on eBay to replace the broken ones. So I upgraded the cranks to Campy 8 -speed cranks and used them for a few years. I really love that bike too and its long wheelbase and nice steel ride are great. The only problems that I had that led me to change to a mountain bike for commuting, is that I broke too many spokes because of all the bad roads in Los Angeles. By changing to some strong mountain bike wheels and some slightly bigger tires, I stopped breaking spokes and got less flats. I use the smoothest and smallest diameter mtn bike tires that I could find and they do look small, and almost like 28 width road tires made by Specialized Armadillo. The other reason I switched is that I went to using a bike rack and panniers on the back all the time for commuting. The mountain bike was stronger and had all the eyelets for connecting the racks easily. The Nishiki Backroads is an aluminum mtn bike and has large tubing like a Cannondale. I'm not sure of the year but its about 8-10 years old, I think. The bike just is a lot more bomb-proof than the Merckx road bike. It's not as nimble and not as aggressive for hard-core street jamming, but it does the job since I oftenhave it loaded down somewhat, so I don't need to be whippng the bike through traffic like I did with the other bike. I suppose I am afraid to catch on of the panniers on someone's car or truck if I slip by too close over and over. I still do it, and ride somewhat aggressively, but I am just saying that I had to cut back a bit. Oh yea, the other good reason to use the mtn bike is the gearing. When the bike is loaded up, the extra gearing offered by the triple chainring helps a lot on steep hills. I did change the rear cassette on the rear wheel to a narrow range and got rid of the pure mtn bike cluster--way too many gears. I find that the narrow range shifts extremely smooth like a road bike and great for commuting. Recently, I have been getting my steel mtn bikes ready to compare the rides on. I have a 1988 Diamond Back Apex, and an 1989 Specialized Hammer mtn bike to try out on the commute. Both bikes have nice all steel frames and are nice mid range quality bikes, with Suntour XC Pro components and the other bike has the "Deerhead' derailleurs -- both 21 speed.

I'm a very big fan of the Raleigh Technium's that were made in Seattle/Kent, WA USA


This is my vintage 1991 super foul weather/blizzard/deep powder/freezing rain bike:

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/bigwoo2/CIMG0232.jpg

Decrease tire pressure in deep powder and it rides like a dream;)

It was one of the very last Technium's w/ Easton 6000 E9 4130 composite....

At a fleamarket last year I saw a Raleigh with that Exage grouppo, complete but without wheels. Nice condition, three main tubes titanium, rest of it steel. No way that is titanium said the seller , 8 $. Flipped it to a coworker for a 100$ with some old wheels I had.
I think there is a cutoff in quality when it comes to old Mtb's. The lowerend stuff is IMO simply not worth it. Not very solid, heavy and often plain ugly (plastic covered canti's !). The really highend stuff is for dreaming and drooling( and maybe someday get really lucky). But there are lots of very good old (steel)bikes out there nobody seems to want that are really excellent riders. They are perfect for commuting, fireroads, winterriding and can easily be converted to nice touring bikes. The Trek 900 series, old KHS Montanas, Konas ( I am building up a rigid 94 Kilauea to flip right now) etc etc.

I've got an old Trek 830 that I acquired for the right price-- free! :) It's the perfect base for a bombproof winter commuter/offroad tourer. Chromolly steel, flat bars with rapid fire shifters, Hi-viz color. This bike is so perfect for the uses I'm putting it to that I've decided to get a couple more for some special projects I have in mind.

I've also got an old Raleigh Portage-- a cheap Canadian-made mountain bike. Hi-ten steel, cheapo steel parts. But peel away the cheap and there's a lugged steel frame with a long wheelbase, no water bottle braze-ons, but double eyelets front and rear. Bullmoose bars. It's VERY old school, and will be built up (with decent components) into a very cool old school beater bike.

This may seem like an overly simple explanation for why older steel framed mtb's have little value in the used market compared to equivalent road bikes, but few are going to pay 2-300 dollars for a mtb when you can find new aluminum and steel road bikes at target for less. Until recently you couldn't find a new road bike for less than $400, and the ones they sell at wally world and target still aren't as nice as the cromoly japanese bikes from the 80's. I'm not saying that the megalomart bikes are better, just that the availability of cheaper new bikes affects the market. I seriously hope that the availability of road bikes at the megalomarts brings down the price of used 70's and 80's road bikes, which I believe are way overpriced in the SF Bay area.