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Portis
01-31-07, 04:25 PM
Well it's a month into Winter and how is everybody fairing? Personally this has been one of my worst winters of riding so far. It has been colder than recent winters and more snow/ice. Around here if I can make it into mid-February I will start getting some relief from the cold. At least i will start getting some rides in near freezing at least.

For now the temps aren't supposed to top freezing here for the next ten days. I don't know how the Canadians and other harsh winter riders handle it. I think i would be crazy. I am sooooooo ready to ditch the morning layering routine and just ride. Spring will be a VERY welcome sight.

CrosseyedCrickt
01-31-07, 05:42 PM
I'm still holding up rather well. My ride home in the mornings is in the single digits and I am quite content with it. this winter hasn't been harsh at all, just very cold as of late with little snow.
Look at it my way, once you brave a hard winter, you will be more fulfilled come sprint time. And in the spring when you se some $5000.00 worth of man and carbon rolling down the street all bundled up whil you are in shorts you can mutter "pansie" and have a good reason.

legot73
01-31-07, 07:11 PM
I'm starting to wuss a bit. I've been driving some days. Morning is the hard part, going out into single digits (F) or less, headwinds. Nights are fine, but my light won't last the round trip on low. I'm looking forward to temps in the teens on up, where I enjoy it again.

hockey
01-31-07, 07:31 PM
We've had a late winter in Toronto, very late. But it is finally here. I finally got around to installing my winter tires (studs) and had a ride across the bay. Funny thing, two weeks ago it was water and now 9 inches of black ice with intermittent snow here and there. I always loved winter, hockey, skating, skiing, etc.etc. but now it is so short that I don't quite feel the same about it. I guess I am getting old!
Hockey

tsl
01-31-07, 08:00 PM
I'm doing fine, the bike is doing fine, and riding is still great, but my apartment is conspiring against me.

The easiest way in and out with the bike is via the fire escape stairs to the kitchen door. The snow melting from the roof has coated the fire escape with ice. I nearly slid the final ten steps the other day. Fortunately, the pedal snagged on my downstairs neighbor's window frame. Coming and going through the front door and stairwell is a huge architectural PITA, so I'm restricting my trips to one a day, and then only if necessary.

Hmmm, maybe a folder?

vrkelley
01-31-07, 08:08 PM
The Global warming terds changed their theory again to match this winter's weather. Got snowed in about 3 times and that generator has a good workout. Other than that, some good riding weather. At this rate, my rear may thaw about March :D

ColdCommuter
01-31-07, 08:35 PM
Actually, I'm one of the Canadians mentioned up top. I commute 30-50 minutes (depending on the weather) each way in the winter. It's easier than it sounds - a few layers of high-quality clothing, some hard work, and the next thing you know you're having trouble staying cool. I brag that I'm warmer on the bike than in my car because in my car I shiver for 10-15 minutes waiting for it to warm up, and on the bike my body warms up in 5!

The rides have been going very well but as the winter drags on the back streets here in Edmonton are getting icier and more dangerous. Fortunately two thirds of my ride is through river valley park trails. It's obvious I need some better studded tires - a cycling colleague has Nokian titanium-studded tires and loves them so I'll look for some of those. Still, I'm amazed at how well bikes handle snow and ice. There's the odd wipeout, but by staying away from traffic it's basically like a weird form of skiing: no harm done, just get up and keep going.

My chain and hub are a mess thanks to the sand and salt and will need to be replaced in the spring, but that's par for the course here.

I bought an HID light that I absolutely love, both to see and be seen.

One of the things I really love is that on a day like today - temperatures around -5C (25 Fahrenheit) with snow coming down - I got home way faster than the drivers all lined up at the icy intersections. Go figure.

Commuting for me is good to about -25C (-10 Fahrenheit). Below that weird things start to happen: different parts of the body goes numb, the shifter doesn't work well, the chain is clunky, etc. In short, nothing seems to work well any more.

Any advice on keeping the bike mechanically sound in these conditions, and/or on the studded winter tires you like best, is most welcome.

chipcom
01-31-07, 08:49 PM
Next week will be the coldest week of the year here so far. Highs of 10-12F, lows near 0F, maybe below. As ColdCommuter mentioned, now we're getting to the point where stuff starts to break or just not work as expected. My snow bike is only a few weeks old and it's a salty mess, but cleaning it isn't an option, other than a dry rag and some WD40 in key areas, until the temps get back to at least the upper 20s or so. Stay warm and be careful out there.

Portis
01-31-07, 09:21 PM
One of the things I really love is that on a day like today - temperatures around -5C (25 Fahrenheit) with snow coming down - I got home way faster than the drivers all lined up at the icy intersections. Go figure.
.

I thought it was supposed to be cold up there. Heck, I haven't ridden in 25 F temps this year i don't think. :D Maybe I ought to move to Canada to warm up. :D

vrkelley
01-31-07, 09:23 PM
Oddly everyone else at the office is sick with colds and flus that just hang on. You'd think riding in a cold car would be enough to clear out the lungs.

vrkelley
01-31-07, 09:29 PM
Next week will be the coldest week of the year here so far. Highs of 10-12F, lows near 0F, maybe below. As ColdCommuter mentioned, now we're getting to the point where stuff starts to break or just not work as expected.

Big surprise! Though you were in Ohio? Didn't know it got so cold there. Yeah that salt and sand really wears on tires and chains.

Other comments...The extra extention on the back of the PI Thermal tights makes the tights fit well over boots. Saw a poor soul with the same tights on this AM...the zipper doesn't stay down, his bare ankle was hanging out! That 3X8" 3M verticle strip of reflectant on the back of the leg is way better than the skimpy PI silver

Machka
01-31-07, 11:09 PM
We're having ANOTHER blizzard!!! :mad:

CrosseyedCrickt
01-31-07, 11:34 PM
We're having ANOTHER blizzard!!! :mad:

Isn't "Canada" synonymous with "Blizzard"? :D

rajman
02-01-07, 02:09 AM
I feel like a wimp (wintering in Calgary this year) compared to Viper and others. So far I have missed only one day - regretted that bitterly as the train took longer than my bike commute to come...

Cold temps (-25 C - I think that's around zero F, not quite sure) are not really a big deal if you are adequately equipped. Depth of snow and fierceness of wind are probably bigger factors.

Try it, you might like it...

StokerPoker
02-01-07, 05:57 AM
I also have to explain to co-workers that I'd be colder if I drove. I did ok on my old trek with 26x1.95 knobbies, but I reached my goal early so I bought myself a new bike. I said when I dropped below clyde status and stayed there for at least a week it was new bike time. So, day 7 at 199 I bought myself a new bike. I have to say the 700x35c studded tires handle much better than the Trek did. My only problem so far is cold toes, but that's my fault for not buying new shoes. I have holes in the bottoms and my feet get wet

chipcom
02-01-07, 06:12 AM
We're having ANOTHER blizzard!!! :mad:

Those are the fun parts of winter! :D

DataJunkie
02-01-07, 07:56 AM
I am a wimp. With our incessant snow and ice I relocated to the gym. Someday it will thaw....I hope.
Before next winter I hope to add a MTB to my stable.

Mr_H
02-01-07, 08:20 AM
Dead in the water, or snow in this case. They aren't plowing a MUP I rely on to get to work, all the other routes I have deemed 'too dangerous' for various reasons.
Soon as it warms up and melts some of the snow, I'm back on though. The cold isn't bothering me, but a mile or two of 6 inch snow does :(

(at least the new road bike on the trainer is getting a workout :) )

2manybikes
02-01-07, 09:16 AM
Still no snow. My snow bike has been about 60 feet this year. (From the garage to the house).

ghettocruiser
02-01-07, 09:24 AM
It's been great lately.

Good stretch of temperatures staying well below freezing, snow staying on the ground without melting into slush, the roads dry enough to that there is little brine spray, and the MUP packed down by skiiers and hikers to near-summer ridability.

Life is good.

Telix
02-01-07, 10:52 AM
Not too much snow, but some bitter cold recently with single-digit wind chills that has kept me taking the bus most days these past two weeks. I don't have windproof gloves or a balaclava (yet) so those temps are murder. I'm headed to the LBS to see what they have to offer in terms of a better shell and gloves than I currently have, which are just normal winter wear - not athletic or cycle specific.

centuryman
02-01-07, 12:23 PM
I've been on the bike once since 19-DEC-06. That was on the rollers and the belt broke about 5 minutes after I began. I have walked to work (~5miles RT) everyday except one since 20-DEC-06. Should be able to start commuting by bike again next week.

Gojohnnygo.
02-01-07, 01:28 PM
It's been great up 1-6-07 54F that day. Then it took a dive. The last two weeks have been brutal. Below zero most nights. 3:00am is the time I hit the road. It was hard at first, Now the body has adjusted to the temps. I've only had 2 snows to deal with nothing big by my standards. its been far warmer then it was 2 and 3 years ago. Its all good!

BenyBen
02-01-07, 02:24 PM
It's been an awesome winter so far. It was a late winter here in Montreal so the first 2 months were really easy.

Now we're actually getting a bit of snow and some cold temperatures, and I've been dealing with the temps much better now. I'm at the point where I pretty much know what to put on depending on temperature, conditions, winds strength and direction. I've ridden very comfortably in -22C with no problems at all (I would get frost bite last year, or used chemical warmers).

pyze-guy
02-01-07, 02:26 PM
It's been great lately.

Good stretch of temperatures staying well below freezing, snow staying on the ground without melting into slush, the roads dry enough to that there is little brine spray, and the MUP packed down by skiiers and hikers to near-summer ridability.

Life is good.

Yes it is.

MSUcommuter
02-01-07, 02:49 PM
All is good so far. Pretty consistently below freezing around here, little slush.

I get pretty annoyed with my ride though. I usually just wear jeans, sneakers, gloves, and a snowboarding jacket. The jacket is actually somewhat thin, and I get cold standing around in it. However by the end of my 20 minute ride I'm always sweating heavily, even with the armpit heat vents open on the jacket. I gave up on hats, I would get overheated easily when I wore them. >.<
any suggestions?

chipcom
02-01-07, 04:52 PM
All is good so far. Pretty consistently below freezing around here, little slush.

I get pretty annoyed with my ride though. I usually just wear jeans, sneakers, gloves, and a snowboarding jacket. The jacket is actually somewhat thin, and I get cold standing around in it. However by the end of my 20 minute ride I'm always sweating heavily, even with the armpit heat vents open on the jacket. I gave up on hats, I would get overheated easily when I wore them. >.<
any suggestions?

What are you wearing under the jacket? Try something that wicks moisture, like polyester, polypro or wool, allowing the moisture to be wicked away from you and to be carried away by your pit zip 'exhaust pipes' before condensing. Pit zips also work better if you use your front zipper for a little cool air intake. ;)

Wool hats will help for your head. Army/Navy and thrift stores are good places to find wool clothing cheap.

MSUcommuter
02-01-07, 05:22 PM
Ususally wearing a cotton t-shirt. Today I felt like going at a slightly higher pace on the way home from class. When I got back I felt like I was going to die, my shirt was more or less completely saturated :p I got inside and tore off my jacket and shirt and just laid down on the ground, letting the sweat evaporate and my body cool down.

Thanks, chip! I can't believe I didn't think of wickaway shirts. My hair is rather long and extremely thick, I'm completely happy without a hat most of the time. When it gets below 20 I have a thin little skullcap I put on under my helm, and keeps me warm.

ViperZ
02-01-07, 07:10 PM
I feel like a wimp (wintering in Calgary this year) compared to Viper and others. So far I have missed only one day - regretted that bitterly as the train took longer than my bike commute to come...

Cold temps (-25 C - I think that's around zero F, not quite sure) are not really a big deal if you are adequately equipped. Depth of snow and fierceness of wind are probably bigger factors.

Try it, you might like it...


-25C isn't wimpy at all, good job! :beer:


I't has been winter here since November, actually October, and I have been commuting everyday to work, so I think I'm in the full swing of it now. I certainly notice my bike is a slower when temps are -20c or lower. I think my Rocky is due for a mid winter overhaul, so I'm going to do it this weekend.


Downtown streets have some clear sections where there is pavement, but for the most part I'm riding on snow that has been hardpacked by cars and then polished to become icy ruts and more like a commute on a bumpy skating rink.

As much as I'm enjoying riding in the winter while everyone thinks we're crazy, I am looking forward to the summer rides on the road and trails :)

2manybikes
02-01-07, 07:48 PM
-25C isn't wimpy at all, good job! :beer:


I't has been winter here since November, actually October, and I have been commuting everyday to work, so I think I'm in the full swing of it now. I certainly notice my bike is a slower when temps are -20c or lower. I think my Rocky is due for a mid winter overhaul, so I'm going to do it this weekend.


Downtown streets have some clear sections where there is pavement, but for the most part I'm riding on snow that has been hardpacked by cars and then polished to become icy ruts and more like a commute on a bumpy skating rink.

As much as I'm enjoying riding in the winter while everyone thinks we're crazy, I am looking forward to the summer rides on the road and trails :)

I remember last spring when It got warm and I started riding other bikes. I actually missed riding in the snow.

chipcom
02-01-07, 08:11 PM
I remember last spring when It got warm and I started riding other bikes. I actually missed riding in the snow.

My least favorite time of the year are those short periods in spring and fall when the temps and conditions have large changes during the course of the day. So I wake up to light snow and temps around freezing, which means there is also still salt being put down, bundle up and ride the bad weather bike to work, then it's sunny and in the 50s or even 60s when it's time to ride home and I see all the roadies out playing while I'm slogging on the heavy bike hauling the extra clothes I wore in the morning in addition to everything else.

Of course one of the things like like about my patrol pants is that I can zip off the legs for instant shorts. ;)

zippered
02-02-07, 07:29 AM
i've commuted year-round (except for blizzards) on my single speed for the last few years, so that's not changed. although this year my "commute" is more like a mad-dash sprint, just over 3kms each way. only thing i can complain about is the cabbies/drivers that don't like it when i take over a lane to avoid getting buzzed. it takes much longer to put my layers on than it does to get there, but that's the way it goes.

however... for critical mass last week there was a big dump of snow, so i rode my mountain bike in winter-conditions for the first time!!! it took me a while to get used to it (i admit that i've only ridden it a few times, and never tried mtb before) and had a bit of a hard time using platform pedals again... oh but the big, fat, knobby tires! and front suspension going over streetcar tracks etc! how fun! :)

after the group ride (and apres-ski) my "personal mechanic" and i went down to the lakeshore trails and rode over the ice and snow drifts on the way home. no cars = even more fun! we went for another ride the next day too, but there had been some freezing rain overnight so everything had a nice layer of crust that was very satisfying to crunch through. the snow drifts were high enough to make for a fair bit of extra effort, making a measly 15km ride feel like much more. quite the workout, indeed. we saw one other cyclist on the trail, everyone else stared, but i'm pretty used to that by now :D

ps. there's a ice-bike race here in a couple weeks, i keep meaning to get a bunch of screws (the loose kind, of course) to make some studded tires...

carcassonne
02-02-07, 05:16 PM
I haven't read all the replies in this thread so maybe I'll be
somewhat redundant.

Here, outside of Toronto, it's great riding. About 25 minutes twice a
day. Nothing serious so far, really. Mornings are at -5 C average,
sometimes a bit colder. Sometimes, like today, a bit windy. If I was
listening seriously to weather reports on the tube I'd be scared of
going out sometimes. They seem to exagerate every single slight wind
or bunch of snow flakes.

As someone replied here, after 5 minutes everything's warm. I wear a
MEC top-of-the-line raincoat with a t-shirt underneath. The flaps
under the armpits are most of the time open. A baseball cap tops it
all.

At first I was aiming for winter coat, heavy socks, head band, studded
tires, but there's no need for all this so far. I have two bikes, one
is equipped with studded tires, so I can easily change. But studded
tires are a drag (pun surely intended). And really, I do most of the
ride on bike paths and they are kept rather free of snow. A good pair
of MTB tires is good enough.

Cheers.

ViperZ
02-02-07, 06:06 PM
I remember last spring when It got warm and I started riding other bikes. I actually missed riding in the snow.


:lol: I'm really looking forward to riding in summer on the roads and trails :)

Zekat
02-12-07, 03:19 PM
This is my first winter riding. (Last winter I only rode the road bike twice: once Jan, once March, both "perfect" days.) Now I have a "winter beater" MTB.

My bike route is 22 miles from home to work (44 miles round trip). I don't get to ride every day, but my goal is riding to work at least once each week through first quarter. Up till last week I've been able bike commute two days a week. I've done 460 miles so far this year.

January averaged +20F. No real problems. (Just one helmet destroying fall on ice.)
February so far has averaged 0F. Ouch.

The worst problems have been either being underdressed and cold or overdressed and blinded (goggles fog). And I found my cold weather limit is 0F, below which I don't have the clothes to still make it fun. (-9F is my "low water mark", my chin & nose stung for days after that. Need to cover up better.)

The right clothes make or break the ride. Studded tires are a big plus. So is having a second set of wheels for them--just switching wheels is so much faster and easier than changing tires. And the DIY light system is great (cagers really react well to the amber xenon strobes front & rear--they go way around at night).

Godwin
02-12-07, 08:22 PM
Halifax has been pretty good this year. It's usually really unpredictable, but this year it's mostly been dry and consistantly cold. I'm buying a new bike for the spring though and it's making me very ancey for the warmer temperatures to hit. This is my first winter and I've cycled every day with the only problem being the mountians of salt and cold hands, one of which will be improved by next year.

Machka
02-12-07, 09:33 PM
Those are the fun parts of winter! :D

It was only fun when I missed half a day of work because of the first one that blew through!!

Machka
02-12-07, 09:38 PM
I've relocated indoors this winter. It is either dumping a ton of snow, or warming up just enough to melt everything ever-so-slightly so that it freezes into a skating rink. It's going to wrap up dumping tomorrow, I think, and by Thursday it is suppose to move into the warm-up phase.

I actually saw a cyclist out there today and it was one of the few times I've looked at a cyclist and thought he was nuts!! I'm surprised the police didn't pull him over for his own safety.

2manybikes
02-13-07, 07:51 AM
I've relocated indoors this winter. It is either dumping a ton of snow, or warming up just enough to melt everything ever-so-slightly so that it freezes into a skating rink. It's going to wrap up dumping tomorrow, I think, and by Thursday it is suppose to move into the warm-up phase.

I actually saw a cyclist out there today and it was one of the few times I've looked at a cyclist and thought he was nuts!! I'm surprised the police didn't pull him over for his own safety.

Did you ever try studded tires for the ice?

Wulfheir
02-13-07, 09:53 AM
So far riding everyday until today. It's snowed everday for 7 days in a row and the road conditions are unmanageable for me, yesterday, I rode the sidewalk of all things, and today I walked. It's not unlike riding on 3 inches of marbles. A chinook is on it's way which should help.

bikedaddy
02-13-07, 12:34 PM
Well I missed one week after the great blizzard (12/19). Didn't want to deal with the piles of snow and I actually though It would melt off. 2 months laters the roads and paths are mostly clear and the piles of snow persist. We have gotten at least a dusting everyweek since the blizzard ... maybe we are between 50-60inches for the year. So far I have falling down on ice 4 times. I wasn't hurt any of the times. I guess one looked pretty serious because a few cars stopped... incluiding a fireman who turned on his lights and everything.
I find it to be very fun and love that people think I'm crazy.

oilfreeandhappy
02-13-07, 12:43 PM
Similar here BikeDaddy.

I'm holding up OK. It has been the roughest winter I've commuted through, and I've been through 17 of them. I've only missed one day in the last month, but I wouldn't recommend some of the days I rode for amateurs :-)

Not seeing too many other cyclists out there lately, although I passed one today, and he said HI to me by my first name. I don't even know who he was...

Gojohnnygo.
02-13-07, 12:54 PM
Well tomorrow and the next day will be very interesting. We have a storm blowing in we could get anywhere from 1 feet to 2 feet plus. With snow fall rates up 2-3 inches hours during the daytime. The storm is expected to start around midnight.

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/showsigwx.php?warnzone=NYZ030&warncounty=NYC033&local_place1=Southern+Franklin+County&product1=Heavy+Snow+Warning

I have a plan to ride 11 miles to work at 3:00am. Then take a cab on the way home for the first 3 miles to get to some back country roads. I will then snowshoe the remaining 8 miles to my house. Wish me luck.

mercator
02-13-07, 12:56 PM
As mentioned above, the last week here in Calgary has been brutal for road conditions 'cause it just keeps snowing and snow removal is not something this city actually knows how to do :(

I'm still 'plowing' through it but it took me 45 minutes to cover the 15km to work this morning.

StokerPoker
02-13-07, 01:32 PM
I know this is nothing compared to what many here are dealing with, but there should be 5-8 inches of new snow for my ride home from work in the morning. The worst part of my commute is actually on the property of my employer. there's a short but steep hill up into the driveway which is long and curvy. the Hill, driveway and parking lots all have a layer of hard packed snow that is a bit slippery right now. One would think that a nursing home would salt their driveway, parking lots and sidewalks. They NEVER salt and rarely plow. At least 3 people a year fall getting out of cars or walking to the building usually resulting in at least one moderate to serious injury a year. We actually had to call the paramedics to get one rather large woman off the ground 2 years ago.

5-8 inches is more snow than I have ridden in since I was a stupid kid so it should be interesting. On the plus side I have better equipment to prevent a fall and to protect me if I do, but the downside is now I'm old enough and just wise enough to know that falling is a possibility. Add that to the fact that my bones aren't flexible anymore like those of a child and then try to get these thoughts out of my head. :D

2manybikes
02-13-07, 03:24 PM
I know this is nothing compared to what many here are dealing with, but there should be 5-8 inches of new snow for my ride home from work in the morning. The worst part of my commute is actually on the property of my employer. there's a short but steep hill up into the driveway which is long and curvy. the Hill, driveway and parking lots all have a layer of hard packed snow that is a bit slippery right now. One would think that a nursing home would salt their driveway, parking lots and sidewalks. They NEVER salt and rarely plow. At least 3 people a year fall getting out of cars or walking to the building usually resulting in at least one moderate to serious injury a year. We actually had to call the paramedics to get one rather large woman off the ground 2 years ago.

5-8 inches is more snow than I have ridden in since I was a stupid kid so it should be interesting. On the plus side I have better equipment to prevent a fall and to protect me if I do, but the downside is now I'm old enough and just wise enough to know that falling is a possibility. Add that to the fact that my bones aren't flexible anymore like those of a child and then try to get these thoughts out of my head. :D

About 5" or 6 " your pedals hit the snow, at 8" It's easier to walk if you need to go very far. Shorter distances in 8" are OK if you are in good shape. Hopefully it will be soft powder and about 25 degrees.
As it gets close to freezing it could be wet and heavy.

StokerPoker
02-13-07, 04:08 PM
About 5" or 6 " your pedals hit the snow, at 8" It's easier to walk if you need to go very far. Shorter distances in 8" are OK if you are in good shape. Hopefully it will be soft powder and about 25 degrees.
As it gets close to freezing it could be wet and heavy.
well, it started already. I shoveled a good portion of my driveway (it's huge and gravel). in some spots there was 1.5" new snow, and others there was 4-5" cause it's blowing so bad. Luckily it's 11 degrees so it's all powder. I was hoping it wasn't going to be like this for my commute TO work tonight because I need to make a side trip to pick up a few things. We'll see what happens I guess. No matter what happens though, I'm not driving. I don't have collision coverage anymore and in a 1 mile stretch 4 people almost hit my car because they were being stupid.

2manybikes
02-13-07, 05:04 PM
well, it started already. I shoveled a good portion of my driveway (it's huge and gravel). in some spots there was 1.5" new snow, and others there was 4-5" cause it's blowing so bad. Luckily it's 11 degrees so it's all powder. I was hoping it wasn't going to be like this for my commute TO work tonight because I need to make a side trip to pick up a few things. We'll see what happens I guess. No matter what happens though, I'm not driving. I don't have collision coverage anymore and in a 1 mile stretch 4 people almost hit my car because they were being stupid.

What are you riding?

Machka
02-13-07, 06:39 PM
As mentioned above, the last week here in Calgary has been brutal for road conditions 'cause it just keeps snowing and snow removal is not something this city actually knows how to do :(

I'm still 'plowing' through it but it took me 45 minutes to cover the 15km to work this morning.

I'm just north of you in Red Deer .... and I feel your pain!!

The problem here is that they made a half-hearted attempt to clear the snow before this massive snowfall which just resulted in a skating rink under the snow. It takes vehicles 5 minutes just to pull away from a stop sign or light because we're all spinning so badly.

Machka
02-13-07, 06:41 PM
Did you ever try studded tires for the ice?

No, up till this year, I never needed them.

In Winnipeg, they knew how to clear streets ... 24 hours after a blizzard the main roads would be cleared to the pavement and I'd be just fine cycling out there .....

I keep hoping that everything will melt and I won't need them this year either ... but I'm beginning to doubt that spring will ever come.