Recumbent - No recumbents in USAT triathlons

Has anyone tried to enter a triathlon and ride a recumbent? I just had a long and frustrating email dialogue with a USAT official who said I would not be allowed to ride my Cruzbike (SWB, two 26" wheels) in any USAT sanctioned event because it was a recumbent. I told him I didn't care if I was disqualified from placing, I just didn't want to be prevented from participating. His stated reasons were safety (the danger of "mixing" standard and recumbent bikes), "competitive advantage", liability, and tradition. Among the many points I tried to make was that in recent years there has been much medical research confirming the dangers of prolonged riding on standard road bikes. By requiring participants in USAT events to ride bicycles with proven health risks, when there are alternative bicycle designs without those health risks, would seem to leave USAT vulnerable to class-action lawsuits from injured riders.

Having participated in triathlons, I know that some recumbents might not fit easily in the crowded transition zones, but I think there are many SWB recumbents that would. I would like to open the door for recumbents to be allowed to participate in triathlons. Any suggestions as to how?
-Jim Parker, Cruzbike, Inc. CEO

Has anyone tried to enter a triathlon and ride a recumbent? I just had a long and frustrating email dialogue with a USAT official who said I would not be allowed to ride my Cruzbike (SWB, two 26" wheels) in any USAT sanctioned event because it was a recumbent. I told him I didn't care if I was disqualified from placing, I just didn't want to be prevented from participating. His stated reasons were safety (the danger of "mixing" standard and recumbent bikes), "competitive advantage", liability, and tradition. Among the many points I tried to make was that in recent years there has been much medical research confirming the dangers of prolonged riding on standard road bikes. By requiring participants in USAT events to ride bicycles with proven health risks, when there are alternative bicycle designs without those health risks, would seem to leave USAT vulnerable to class-action lawsuits from injured riders.

Having participated in triathlons, I know that some recumbents might not fit easily in the crowded transition zones, but I think there are many SWB recumbents that would. I would like to open the door for recumbents to be allowed to participate in triathlons. Any suggestions as to how?
-Jim Parker, Cruzbike, Inc. CEO
Organize a Triathlon for bent riders? See if it can spread.

I don't know about triathlons, but most events in the U.S. that include cycling take their equipment definitions from the USCF, and the USCF considers recumbents a separate class of bike, apart from 'regular' a.k.a. Safety Bikes. That is better than the UCI, which doesn't even consider them bikes. It's the same argument the UCI uses, though: do they want to promote athleticism or technology?

Every year, I do this one century ride. About 55 miles out, a triathlon is always running their 15K time trial portion on the same roads. What I do to them might make recumbent aficionados cheer, but the upright racers don't seem to appreciate it at all when several of us on lowracers pass everyone like they were fence posts. I bet I passed 50 racers last time, and every one of them made a satisfying "whoosh" sound when I passed them! I know they're not fresh, but then neither are we. Given the kind of speed advantage we obviously have, I can understand why we would not be allowed to use the bents for racing directly against the poor uprights.

There's also some anecdotal evidence that bent muscles are too close to running muscles; which leaves the bent rider at a disadvantage for one of the events. My advice is, if you want to do triathlons, use an upright. If you want to race your bent against uprights, you should find some road races that allow them. One I've done in the past is the Avita Water Black Bear (http://www.grayling-area.com/blackbear2006/index.html), which is a 100 mile road race in northern Michigan, and for which a recumbent holds the course record. Often clubs will hold time trials and won't care what you're riding. USCF events aren't required to offer a recumbent class, but some do and if you can find those rides, you can compete there. If you just want to race, there's always the yearly HPRA (http://www.recumbents.com/hpra/) series.

Wow!!!! What insight for those of us who know very little (or nothing) about the world of bicycle racing, the USCF, and sanctioned triathlons.

"....do they want to promote athleticism or technology?"

An interesting dilemma. On one hand there is the need of continuity of the sport. Professional baseball still uses wooden bats despite the fact that aluminum bats are clearly superior. If all you wanted to do was hit a ball as far as you could you would likely choose an aluminum bat. On the other hand, everyone would still be forward rolling over the high jump bar had it not been for Mr Fosbury.

Fortunately, for those of us who never plan on competing in sanctioned events the decision should be simpler...... find the implement which allows us to do what we want in the most efficient and user friendly manner possible. It may be an upright, it maybe a recumbent and eventually may even be something that we have not yet concieved.

I constantly bug the officials every time I sign up for a tri - I've not been allowed to bring my lowracer yet. The whole field is scared of the fast bikes!

I think a good idea would be to organize a triathlon event a month or so before or after a major "official" sanctioned one on the same course as a PR stunt, and invite big name athletes to participate for free, and let them choose a loaner recumbent from any sponsoring bent manufacturer.

If it could be pulled off, I'm sure a lot of ink would flow in bike magazines about it.

I think a good idea would be to organize a triathlon event a month or so before or after a major "official" sanctioned one on the same course as a PR stunt, and invite big name athletes to participate for free, and let them choose a loaner recumbent from any sponsoring bent manufacturer.

If it could be pulled off, I'm sure a lot of ink would flow in bike magazines about it.

Why exactly would I want that? Especially if the bent times turned out to be slower (which they probably would?)

Why exactly would I want that? Especially if the bent times turned out to be slower (which they probably would?)

So DF/bent comparative races should only be done if the results favor the recumbents?

So DF/bent comparative races should only be done if the results favor the recumbents?

I'm questioning why do it in the first place. If the purpose is to highlight the speed of recumbents, they might not get what they want. After all, the big-name tri people will not be acclimated to bents.

you could just as easily ask "why not do it"

IIRC, the ironman competition was born out of a pissing contest between friends... so a bent-tri would focus more on the "but can you do it" aspect.

if "saving legs" for the running part is a concern, they could just change the order of the 3 parts of the race, for example, Running>Swimming>Recumbent Cycling

Whats the point the tri folks wont bend any way; if you want bents in compitition you set up compititions for bents.
look on my trike i pace cars; i know low riders who are faster than me. on my high racer i pace cars on the highway and know two lowboys who are as fast as me. there are few road bikes who can keep up with my trike when im not trying and none who can keep up with my high racer. so what is the point of compeating if you always win?

Ran into this same mentality with the Prairie Rose State Games up here in North Dakota. The games are billed as encouraging "participation" by everyone, all races, religions, etc. But they had a 50 mile race in which a few of us (youngest was 60+ all the way up to late 70's) wanted to do it just for the heck of it, and hope to finish sometime before the sun set!
Same thing, the organizer, a die hard 40 ish hard core racer, wouldn't hear of it. Geae every excuse in the world why bents couldn't be allowed. As if a few old guys like us could ever threaten those hard core racing types.
Someday I'd like to do a tri just for the heck of it, to see if I could finish, but can't ride an upright because fo back surgeries and a stroke. Guess I', out of luck.
But those hard core racers are competitive, except when it comes to any perceived competition from bents.

so what is the point of compeating if you always win?

um, if everyone in the race is riding a bent, how are you so sure that YOU would always win?

you could just as easily ask "why not do it"

Maybe my remark was misunderstood. The post I'd responded to suggested putting big-name tri competitors on free loaner recumbents for the event. I was responding to that aspect only. Sorry, my fault for not cutting the original post.

Most recumbenteurs will acknowledge that getting 'up to speed' on a bent takes anywhere from a month or two, to several years; and the higher level of competitiveness, the longer it takes. So, assuming that you could cajole even one big-name tri person to try it, you could expect pretty poor results, with the big name loudly proclaiming at the end of the race that bents are slow and awkward and generally suck. Now, considering that as the probably results, what bent dealer would like to supply the free loaner bents?

If you really want to get into tris with your bent, your best chance would be to talk to the organizer and convince them to offer a separate bent class, one without medals/trophies/etc. You might need to commit a certain minimum number of bent riders to register, just to make it worth their while. If you're the only bent interested, they probably won't bite. One thing going for you would be that the biking leg is usually after the swim, so the biking isn't a mass-start event.

Most recumbenteurs will acknowledge that getting 'up to speed' on a bent takes anywhere from a month or two, to several years; and the higher level of competitiveness, the longer it takes.

yea i guess that's where i didnt think my plan all the way through

I just want to be able to ride *MY* bent in competition, that way I could make space in the garage for another bent, and I wouldn't have to spent weeks acclimating my arse to the dang seat!!!!

My advice is, if you want to do triathlons, use an upright.


+1

I'm shooting for the triathlon thing this summer, so I am shopping for a roadbike this winter.

Don't think I will find anything as comfy as my Rocket, though...

I just want to be able to ride *MY* bent in competition, that way I could make space in the garage for another bent, and I wouldn't have to spent weeks acclimating my arse to the dang seat!!!!

Nuttin' wrong with wanting that! Which of course was the original gist of the thread. I think in case anyone wants to, the best argument to use on an official would be to point out that bents are allowed by the USCF, so long as they're in their own class and it's not a mass-start event.

I wish I could be more encouraging about the prospect, but as a lot of us understand, USCF and Tri-s are organized by people who have a certain attitude toward bents. Namely, they aren't familiar with them and they don't want anything unfamiliar in a race they're organizing. Familiar = safe. So it'll be an uphill battle getting in the first time. If you could manage getting in once, and if there's no major problems related to it, then you'd have a pretty good chance of getting in again.

Here it is right out of the US Tri rule book:

5.12 Untraditional or Unusual Bicycle Equipment.

Any unusual bicycle construction or equipment to which the specifications in Section 5.11 cannot easily be applied shall be illegal unless prior approval is received from the Head Referee before the equipment is used in the event. Any violation of this Section shall result in disqualification.


With that stated, I have seen a couple of LWB bikes being used (one had to remove a fairing) in 2006. I would suspect that if you roll up with your Jester or Baron, there would be a resounding NO from the Head Ref! But.......you never know until you ask! Some of the sprint tri's are pretty loose.

BTW, I don't do tri's, I keep my son-in-law rolling on his upwrong.

................jim

I'm honestly not that concerned. While I know that if I were to be allowed to use my lowracer I'd likely have an edge, I'm never going to be competitive enough for it to matter where it counts anyway.

I love to do triathalons, and I use them as a gauge of progessing fitness. I train happily on my road bike for them and I believe that taking advantage of both platforms gives me an edge in both.

At my last triathalon I clocked at 19.6 mph average for the 20 miles which was good enough for top 10% of the field that day given the HORRIBLE road (6 miles were over cobblestone!). Not bad for a relaxed gerometry roadbike with no aero trick of any kind added! While I could have averaged easily another 5mph on the lowracer it wouldn't have made up enough to account for the horrible run, which was in the bottom third of my age group.

I'm a horrible runner. My thighs, while QUITE muscled, are the size of the average marathon runner's chest. Makes me a great biker but I'll always be too muscle-heavy to win my age group no matter what. So I use it as a self-test and to spur my training in the gym and at home. Works for me and keeps me in great shape fot the HPV races!

Greg

Thanks karterjimm; that's good info to know. Personally, I don't do tri's because me and running don't get along. The last time I ran more than two blocks was in boot camp, and that was over 30 years ago. Having avoided it successfully for so long, I have no intention of doing it on purpose now. :)

Has anyone tried to enter a triathlon and ride a recumbent? I just had a long and frustrating email dialogue with a USAT official who said I would not be allowed to ride my Cruzbike (SWB, two 26" wheels) in any USAT sanctioned event because it was a recumbent. I told him I didn't care if I was disqualified from placing, I just didn't want to be prevented from participating. His stated reasons were safety (the danger of "mixing" standard and recumbent bikes), "competitive advantage", liability, and tradition. Among the many points I tried to make was that in recent years there has been much medical research confirming the dangers of prolonged riding on standard road bikes. By requiring participants in USAT events to ride bicycles with proven health risks, when there are alternative bicycle designs without those health risks, would seem to leave USAT vulnerable to class-action lawsuits from injured riders.

Having participated in triathlons, I know that some recumbents might not fit easily in the crowded transition zones, but I think there are many SWB recumbents that would. I would like to open the door for recumbents to be allowed to participate in triathlons. Any suggestions as to how?
-Jim Parker, Cruzbike, Inc. CEO
My suggestion is to de-emphasize the "competitive advantage" that bents have and focus on how it will increase participation. I have seen data that a triatholon bike with the rider in the aero postion is about the same or better than most bents aerodynamically. I would start there, to allieve fears that guys on bents are going to show up and win all the prizes. Next, I would talk about how many athletes ride bents because of limiting medical conditions that prevent them fro using an upright bike. These athletes wish to participate in triathelons, and they would do the sport good in showing the public that the sport is accesible to many types of people.

Good luck with your quest to gets bents into the tris...

There was a tri I wanted to do in Des Moines this June as part of a 3 person relay team, I would do the bike leg. But will not do so because they do not allow recumbents per the USAT rules. I even inquired about getting permission per the rules from USAT. I emailed the person I had to ask but he would not allow me to use my 'bent. His reason, it would not be as easily seen as other bicycles would be, he thinks it is more difficult to handle, thus unsafe, & the aerodynamic advantage, especially on the down hill sections. I know the route for the tri. very well, I grew up in Des Moines. There are no major down hill sections. I pointed this & the fact that 'bents are easily seen on the roadways & mine is not a low racer. But to no avail.

As most bent riders here understand, the visibility thing is horse-puckey (to put it politely.) The problem resides with upright riders. When they are looking to pull around someone, they will do a quick shoulder-check, looking for another bicycle-shaped object at about the same height as themselves. If they see nobody at the 5' level, they pull out and go! That plus so many of them are so enamored with their own perceived speed that they can't envision someone coming up on them anyway. I've almost been run over several times because of their POOR PRACTICE. When they note that they didn't see me, I remark back, "that's a car driver's excuse for hitting an upright." That makes it more personal to them, and emphasizes that not looking properly is not an excuse.

Of course, none of that will sway the USAT. Like the USCF, even if the rules would permit them, they don't WANT to permit them. If you push the issue too hard, the response will be a new rule disallowing them completely, at which point the defacto ban will be official.

As most bent riders here understand, the visibility thing is horse-puckey (to put it politely.) The problem resides with upright riders. When they are looking to pull around someone, they will do a quick shoulder-check, looking for another bicycle-shaped object at about the same height as themselves. If they see nobody at the 5' level, they pull out and go! That plus so many of them are so enamored with their own perceived speed that they can't envision someone coming up on them anyway. I've almost been run over several times because of their POOR PRACTICE. When they note that they didn't see me, I remark back, "that's a car driver's excuse for hitting an upright." That makes it more personal to them, and emphasizes that not looking properly is not an excuse.

Of course, none of that will sway the USAT. Like the USCF, even if the rules would permit them, they don't WANT to permit them. If you push the issue too hard, the response will be a new rule disallowing them completely, at which point the defacto ban will be official.
Yes, that is the crux of the problem, I think. They are making excuses to ban them that really don't make any sense. So, I agre with Blazing Pedals in reaching conclusion that they just don't want us around and devise rationale arount that starting point. If pushed, they will just create a new rule.

I have tried to keep out of this with just the rule posting......but, the DF riders are still smarting from the French Tour in the 30's! :rolleyes: My son in law was warming up for a tri while using my Baron and everybody he passed while on a portion of the course told him he couldn't ride "that thing"! He just laughed and told them he thought he was doing a pretty good job! In the actual race, using his "normal" bike, some actually asked if the other "thing" was a help in training. Again, he just laughed as he was passing them with a "what do you think?"
Because I have seen a few 'bents in the local tri's, I remain hopeful that there can be a meeting of the minds. I will say that I don't think anyone was worried about the fellows on the bents as being anywhere competitive. :p With my son in law, there would be a problem! Until the stigma of bents being ridden only by eccentric old geezers can be stomped out, they will remain an outside oddity to the DF crowd.
Personally, in the last year I have converted 5 DF riders to the dork side by the simple fact that this eccentric old geezer was able to impress them enough for them to start asking questions. I offer rides and the rest is history. A couple are quite young (20's) and are still asking why more people don't try them out. Simple......LBS don't offer the opportunity! :mad:
Another thing I have noticed, teeny-boppers are drawn to bents like bears to honey and are really disappointed when I tell them that I don't know where to get a child sized bent. But......that is another thread.....no hi jacking, here!!

................jim