Bicycle Mechanics - pressing crown race at home?

any ideas?
for my mtb I used a piece of PVC Pipe that fit well, but now im installing a 1" one on a different bike....

Someone mentioned using soft copper plumbing pipe and a deadblow mallet. If in doubt, a LBS would do it for a couple of bucks.

I've always used the PVC pipe so I'd try to find one with a 1 1/8" inner diameter. However, it would probably be cheaper to have the LBS do it than to buy the pipe.

I always used 2 scrap pieces of 2x4 stud and a rubber mallet. Crude, but when done with finesse it works just fine.

1 1/8" diameter by 3" piece of pipe, usually found in the plumbing section of any hardware store. Lowe's wouldn't have that either.

http://www.mindspring.com/~d.g1/images/headset.jpg

Here's the explanation on making this:
http://www.mindspring.com/~d.g1/headset.html

The tool you pictured, which I've built for myself as well, is for pressing headset cups into the head tube, not for a crown race.

I've always pressed crown races on by using a flathead screwdriver and a hammer, tapping against thickest part of the crown race (the part that sits right against the fork).

Done it with the PVC, no problem, but I suspect the 1" inner diameter is your problem. Can PV be had with this diameter?

The tool you pictured, which I've built for myself as well, is for pressing headset cups into the head tube, not for a crown race.

Oops, I misread that as well. For the crown race, I used a vice with plastic covers, rotating the fork as I tapped it on.

How about facing the head tube? Is this typically needed?

has anybody attempted the above methods to a fork with a carbon steerer tube?
I wouldn't mind trying these with an alloy steerer tube, but might be a costly experiment for carbon.

has anybody attempted the above methods to a fork with a carbon steerer tube?
I wouldn't mind trying these with an alloy steerer tube, but might be a costly experiment for carbon.

I've done it on a carbon steerer fork, although it doesn't make any difference as the fork crown itself is, in my experience, always aluminum. Grease the inside of the crown race and press it with your hand into position the crown. Then tap it in place with whatever method you want to use. Done right, you never touch the actual steerer.

I've always used the PVC pipe so I'd try to find one with a 1 1/8" inner diameter. However, it would probably be cheaper to have the LBS do it than to buy the pipe.

Where do you buy your PVC tubing; Neiman Marcus? Here in L.A. it's about a buck a foot.

FWIW, a piece of copper pipe is best, and you don't need a mallet (rubber or otherwise); just put the race in position, slide the copper pipe over the steering tube, turn the whole thing upside down and tap the copper pipe against the floor or your bench or whatever.

Takes seconds and works every time, even on carbon fiber.

Couple 2x4's screwed to the bottom of a small chuck of 2x4. I put the ends of the long peices on the race and smack the top with a rubber mallet. Works fine, only takes one good whack. I was thinking of having my dad build a fancier version with some chunks of some hardwood inlaid at the bottom rather than just the soft pine.

for years I used this method at home:

Get a big adjustable wrench with jaws big enough for the steerer to pass through. Close the jaws enough that the edges of the wrench touch the top lip of the crown race. Place the crown itself (not the fork legs or dropouts) onto an upright board or the corner of a table. Gently tap the top of the wrench with a hammer, turn 90 degrees, tap turn 90, tap, and repeat until the race is perfectly seated.

for years I used this method at home:

Get a big adjustable wrench with jaws big enough for the steerer to pass through. Close the jaws enough that the edges of the wrench touch the top lip of the crown race. Place the crown itself (not the fork legs or dropouts) onto an upright board or the corner of a table. Gently tap the top of the wrench with a hammer, turn 90 degrees, tap turn 90, tap, and repeat until the race is perfectly seated.
ooohhh...I like this, ill try it

Where do you buy your PVC tubing; Neiman Marcus? Here in L.A. it's about a buck a foot.


Home Depot and they won't sell you just a foot. You buy it in 10' lengths.

Home Depot and they won't sell you just a foot. You buy it in 10' lengths.
No Ace Hardware or True Value Hardware in Denver? 1 1 1/8" x 6" piece of galvinized steel pipe is only $1.32 at Ace Hardware on this side of the country. Heck of a lot stronger then PVC (plastic) pipe and does more damage when you throw it at a cager.

Home Depot and they won't sell you just a foot. You buy it in 10' lengths.

Screw Home Depot.

Copper is still better.

Home Depot and they won't sell you just a foot. You buy it in 10' lengths.
my HD has "cut offs" for about a dollar/foot.

my HD has "cut offs" for about a dollar/foot.

That's encouraging, but copper is still better.

That's encouraging, but copper is still better.
...and keeps its value

my HD has "cut offs" for about a dollar/foot.
That depends on the store. I worked at a few HDs and only the really "stubborn" ones who get away with ignoring company policy use the old SKUs for cut pipe. After seeing the true priorities of that company, I am now a Lowe's shopper.

any ideas?
for my mtb I used a piece of PVC Pipe that fit well, but now im installing a 1" one on a different bike....
When I was a kid, I used the headset itself, just screwing the threaded race down hard to press the fully-assembled headset together. In some cases, if memory serves, I would then have to re-tighten it after a few miles, as it got seated into position by riding.

These days I have the correct tools...

Sheldon "Ways And Means" Brown

Galvanized steel doesn't make any sense. You want something SOFTER than the crown race.

How about facing the head tube? Is this typically needed?

That was required for my Colnago Star fork and Chris King lower race.

Galvanized steel doesn't make any sense. You want something SOFTER than the crown race.
That would be mild steel. It is quite a lot softer than a hardened steel crown race.

Sheldon "But Not Chris King" Brown

I just bought a new ouzo pro fork. I dropped it off at the bikeshop to have them install the crown race.

When I got home I was examining their work and noticed this! (see attached pictures). :eek:

This is a shop that I trust, does anyone consider this normal??? Is this safe to ride? What should I do...

Sorry here's another picture with a ruler for reference. The ruler is in milimeters.

I doubt it left the factory like that.

Of course not. I have a great deal of respect for anything made of carbon fiber, and I'm careful not to ding dent drop it, etc.

I thoroughly inspected the fork before taking it to the LBS - and it was NOT marred as seen in the pics.

Yeah, I assumed the LBS damaged it. Sorry if that came across wrong.

The carbon fibers look like they are cut which is always a bad thing and is a failure waiting to happen. When it will fail is the only unknown.

new ones dont need pounding they have a break that allows them to slide on http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Images/Models/Full/4040.jpg

My pictures show a brand new Cane Creek crown race for an IS style headset, purchased directly from Cane Creek. I guess a slide-on style would have been nice, along the lines of Dr. Brown's method below.

PS> What should I do about my steerer tube??? Do I take it back to the bike shop and demand they replace the fork? I'm friends with these guys and consistently spend $$$ there but ordered these parts on my own since they didn't have them in stock.

Of course not. I have a great deal of respect for anything made of carbon fiber, and I'm careful not to ding dent drop it, etc.

I thoroughly inspected the fork before taking it to the LBS - and it was NOT marred as seen in the pics.


The proper park tool won't mar or damage a steerer like that. While I would ride it, I generally take stupid risks so it might not be your bag. Your concern now is a pretty good indication that you aren't satisfied, and the last thing you want to worry about when riding is if your carbon steerer is gonna pull a Hincapie on you.
Take it back if it bothers you. Carbon isn't supposed to delam even under normal use. The MFG will back you up on this.


What shop in NYC was it?

is it possible to jsut replace the steerer tube?

nope.

What shop in NYC was it?
It was a shop small shop with a good reputation and reasonable prices, an unusual combination. I'd rather not mention the shop by name here until this is resolved for obvious reasons.

Carbon fork, carbon steerer tube. Any guess as to how something like this happens? I will have to ask the shop.

One guy says the fork is trashed. Consensus?

u just cant trust people!

One guy says the fork is trashed. Consensus?

Use the search function. There are tons of discussions here about what constitutes damage to carbon fiber and what the possible consequences are (sudden, abrupt, failure with zero warning). The strength of carbon fiber comes from all those tiny fibers being intact. The fibers on your fork aren't.

Ask yourself if you are willing to take a chance on having your front wheel separate from your bike while, say, doing 40mph downhill? However the damage occurred, you don't want to be riding a bike with that fork installed unless you're suicidal. It's possible it could be repaired but do you want to take a chance? Take it back to the LBS and have them replace it.

edit: you might want to read this thread:

http://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=127492&highlight=carbon+fiber+damage+catastrophic

I've got a fairly specific issue here. I can/will send photos of the scratch/gouge to Reynolds for evaluation.

Any other advice for handling this situation? What if the bike shop says don't worry about it. I know I will still be worried. What if they want to touch it up with nail-polish? It's not even on a cosmetic part of the fork so I don't care how it looks. In fact I don't think it is clear-coated where the gouge appears. But more importantly that section seems like it would be the most high-stress part of the integrated fork, since it is where the bearings sit. Opinions...

______________________________
Proximo that thread was full of gossip and cattiness without a lot of antecdote about kestrels.

It was a shop small shop with a good reputation and reasonable prices, an unusual combination. I'd rather not mention the shop by name here until this is resolved for obvious reasons.

Carbon fork, carbon steerer tube. Any guess as to how something like this happens? I will have to ask the shop.

One guy says the fork is trashed. Consensus?

Don't ride that. Yes, it's trashed. Won't kill you the first time, or the second.. and just when you forget about it- you join the small-but-growing carbon-fork cyclcists in the sky.

I saw this posted in the Road Cyclng forum this morning:

http://www.calfeedesign.com/howtosendrepair.htm

These guys repair damaged carbon frames -- except they say they won't repair carbon handlebars or forks, meaning they won't accept the liability of repairing a piece that can get you killed if it fails.

PS> What should I do about my steerer tube??? Do I take it back to the bike shop and demand they replace the fork? I'm friends with these guys and consistently spend $$$ there but ordered these parts on my own since they didn't have them in stock.

Ah, don't fall out with them, take it back in its current, obviously unused state. If they're in any way a sensible business, they 'll admit fault as this is clearly installation damage. They should buy you a new fork, and put a new crown race on it, and be very nice to you, into the bargain :)

Don't ride that. Yes, it's trashed. Won't kill you the first time, or the second.. and just when you forget about it- you join the small-but-growing carbon-fork cyclcists in the sky.

Just an update since I sent the fork back to reynolds for evaluation.

Reynold's response was that the fork is fine. It was explained to me that the ouzo pro is very "overbuilt" especially in that area and the scratches (seen in photos below) are purely cosmetic.

The guy I talked with on the phone said he'd even put that fork on his own bike, not to worry and it is fine. So I'm going to try not to worry about it. Thanks for all your help.

that's good to hear. thanks for the update.
i also bought that fork for my build. i tried to install the crown race by myself using PVC tubing, but was taking too long and didn't want to rush and ruin the fork. ended up taking it to the LBS for installation. still not near completing the build, but enjoy the fork!

To me it looks like at least the top two layers of wrap are cut. Carbon fiber is particularly susceptible to weakening where repeated forces are concentrated. Your photo's are a text book example of what part not to put in service. "Really Overbuilt" is not the most technical term. You will find out how confident they are when you ask them to put it in writing, as an engineering evaluation, on Company letterhead, stating that the part is Safe to install and operate.

I have some experience (15 yrs) doing failure analysis of high speed rotating equipment. Everyone is all smiles when the equipment is running. But... when failure causes product loss, serious damage or God forbid, loss of life, everybody is looking for a place to hang the blame. Huge amounts of engineering hours spent writing the postmortem technical analysis, just to duke it out in court. You may of course, be in a coma through all this. The only one that already sent them the proof that you installed a damaged part in your bike.

You are in a unique position here to eliminate that part failing in your bike. Don't install the fork. I would contact the LBS & OEM again and voice your concern. Ask them directly to replace the part, they have budgets and access to parts they can give you. Speak to different people; Marketing, Quality, Legal, (write down dates and names) be cordial. If they are less than receptive, write a letter explaining your concern over Safety and asking for a replacement. Be sure to copy all of the people you talked to, then call them again to talk about a solution.

Sorry for the sermon, I've stood beside a few hospital beds containing cyclists.

Good Luck

BTY the (2) most over used quotes by an OEM are:
1- We have never seen that problem before.
2- Don't worry, its really overengineered.

Just an update since I sent the fork back to reynolds for evaluation.

Reynold's response was that the fork is fine. It was explained to me that the ouzo pro is very "overbuilt" especially in that area and the scratches (seen in photos below) are purely cosmetic.

The guy I talked with on the phone said he'd even put that fork on his own bike, not to worry and it is fine. So I'm going to try not to worry about it. Thanks for all your help.

Sure, rather than accepting the advice of bikers and mechanics that have no vested interest, you'll accept what the seller (who should otherwise replace the part) tells you. "overbuilt" means nothing with CF - it uses some polymer resin for binding, and that is very susceptible to effects of stress points - non-smooth transitions in the surface of the object, around which stress lines concentrate.

These images (they don't refer to your case directly) illustrate what I mean by stress point and stress line concentration:
http://www.sdc.manchester.ac.uk/frac/050825.shtml

To me it looks like at least the top two layers of wrap are cut. Carbon fiber is particularly susceptible to weakening where repeated forces are concentrated. Your photo's are a text book example of what part not to put in service. "Really Overbuilt" is not the most technical term. You will find out how confident they are when you ask them to put it in writing, as an engineering evaluation, on Company letterhead, stating that the part is Safe to install and operate.

I have some experience (15 yrs) doing failure analysis of high speed rotating equipment. Everyone is all smiles when the equipment is running. But... when failure causes product loss, serious damage or God forbid, loss of life, everybody is looking for a place to hang the blame. Huge amounts of engineering hours spent writing the postmortem technical analysis, just to duke it out in court. You may of course, be in a coma through all this. The only one that already sent them the proof that you installed a damaged part in your bike.

You are in a unique position here to eliminate that part failing in your bike. Don't install the fork. I would contact the LBS & OEM again and voice your concern. Ask them directly to replace the part, they have budgets and access to parts they can give you. Speak to different people; Marketing, Quality, Legal, (write down dates and names) be cordial. If they are less than receptive, write a letter explaining your concern over Safety and asking for a replacement. Be sure to copy all of the people you talked to, then call them again to talk about a solution.

Sorry for the sermon, I've stood beside a few hospital beds containing cyclists.

Good Luck

BTY the (2) most over used quotes by an OEM are:
1- We have never seen that problem before.
2- Don't worry, its really overengineered.


I thought about asking for proof of inspection in writing but then felt sufficiently reassured by the technician. He said the fork is still under warranty. Although I haven't received my fork back yet it might already include something in writing to indicate that it was inspected and passed some form of inspection, if it does not include something in writing I will ask for it before installing the fork. If I can't get something in writing I will do as suggested and ask for a replacement.

A close look at the photo below with the red metric tape measure next to it gives a fairly accurate idea of the size of the marks on the steering tube. If it's a cosmetic issue and the OEM backs this up in writing - I don't think I need to worry about it any more than I would with a new part.