General Cycling Discussion - Threat of Pit Bull

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/4516817.html

There has been a rash of pit bull and vicious dog attacks.
Walking or biking in the neighborhood is no longer safe.
What do yall do to protect yourself from vicious dogs that
won't be stopped by yelling or squirting water at it?

Frankly, if an 80 pound pit bull charges at me while I'm on
my bike, I think the only choice is to out run because my
hand is not nearly as strong as that trucker who strangled the
pit bull. If I can out run it, there's little I can do but put my
hands up before the pit bull goes for my throat.

Well I wouldn't have much of a problem. If I was out walking at 5 am it would have to be with the puppies. (They are 5 and 10 years old, just refuse to stop being cute, life is different with 2 100 # plus lap dogs that are very very protective).

I just had a friend really tore up by a guard dog - in front of its owner. The dog was killed afterward and the owner has a lot of fear of what is going to happen since he is responsible.

Pit bulls are just one of the dogs known to be dangerous.

That said, I believe that self defense is the overriding concern
that would justify extreme measures to protect one's self.
I would not feel one drop of remorse if it took a gun or large
blade to stop a dangerous dog attack. :mad: :mad:

It's a viloent and gross way to snuff it but...you could always keep a few "anti-freeze" meatballs with you and toss them out if they came at you. It would be the last time they did it.

I am not sure why you think it is less safe now then before to walk or ride in a neighborhood. Dog attacks have happened for centuries. This one news article makes you cautious about biking when there are thousands of caged animals that do not care if they run over you. It is good to be cautious and aware, but do not let it spoil your enjoyment of biking.

Just carry ammonia in a squirt gun or pepper spray. This will stop most dogs if sprayed in their eyes. Your best bet is to do a search on dogs in BF search as this subject has been extensively covered many times.

Enjoy the ride.

You can buy very effective pepper sprays on ebay for $10. I almost never leave on my bike without mine in some easily accessible spot for use on dogs and other animals that don't walk on 4 legs.

Our department uses Sabre Red. I can personally vouch for it's effectiveness, and it is nice because there are no lasting effects on the dog except his memory of the fireball that hit him in the face when he got close to the human wheeled thing.

**disclaimer - check local laws before buying.

Ammonia is extremely dangerous. It can and will cause permanent damage, and that includes possible accidental contamination of the user. Not smart. Pepper spray is a better option, but it has "clotting" properties, especially older bottles, and thats why if you carry it, carry at least 2 bottles. And get the strongest stuff possible. If the marine corps can require people to run a gauntlet after getting sprayed with the stuff, don't you think an attack dog just might be able to handle it?- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWpBmHPdA00

Me, I carry an expanding baton like the ones below. I have used it to stop attack dogs. It works very well. Just be careful about head strikes. That would likely cause a skull fracture and death in a human or dog.

http://bekleidungskammer.de/images/asp%20baton.jpg

tk4790,
I doubt "antifreeze meatballs" would stop a charging pit bull. Those animals go crazy, and I don't think the smell of tasty treats will take their attention away from your throat.

edp773,
Pitbulls are becoming more and more popular in my part of the country. I think it's due to increase the Hispanic population, which seems to be enamored with pitbulls despite their tendency to go nuts and kill little kids and seriously wound innocent neighbors and, sometimes, even their owners. A lot of these people are judgement-proof, so they don't care about the consequences of owning vicious dogs. Until we make owning vicious dogs a crime punishable with prison time, the number of attacks will only increase. Also, a lot of people around here just don't give a dam about their neighbors.

deputyjones,
If a pitbull comes charging at me, I would be lucky just to be able to get off my bike before it bites me. I have little confidence that I would be able to pull out the pepper spray quick enough, unless I religiously practice quick draw.

michigander,
Unless a person is trained in martial arts, I don't think the baton is a good idea.

michigander, Unless a person is trained in martial arts, I don't think the baton is a good idea.
I disagree. I am trained in martial arts, roughly about 6.5 years worth. But batons are a simple thing. Don't hit em in the head. Thats all you need to know.

Ammonia is extremely dangerous. It can and will cause permanent damage, and that includes possible accidental contamination of the user. Not smart. Pepper spray is a better option, but it has "clotting" properties, especially older bottles, and thats why if you carry it, carry at least 2 bottles. And get the strongest stuff possible. If the marine corps can require people to run a gauntlet after getting sprayed with the stuff, don't you think an attack dog just might be able to handle it?- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWpBmHPdA00

Me, I carry an expanding baton like the ones below. I have used it to stop attack dogs. It works very well. Just be careful about head strikes. That would likely cause a skull fracture and death in a human or dog.

http://bekleidungskammer.de/images/asp%20baton.jpg

Except for the fact they are concidered dangerous weapons in most of North America, and illegal to carry in most cases. Some states will allow them to be on a person if they have a concealed weapons permit.

What if I attach the baton on the bike frame, in order to not be "concealed"?

What if I attach the baton on the bike frame, in order to not be "concealed"?

Check your states laws. Best and safest way to find out.

We have an open carry law. Gotta love the wild west.
So asp away! I see guys riding with guns.

Yes attach to bike frame so everyone sees it.

Use an airhorn!

Pit bulls are just one of the dogs known to be dangerous.



My last experience with a pit bull was when I saw one out 'alone'. Alone in quotes because when I got closer I found the owner was tehre just sitting down back to a nearby tree. OK the pit was old and fat, but the only danger she posed was that the owner might end up with a heart attack if she had to pick the dog up to help it get home.

Pitbulls as a bred are somewhat large and aggressive. But in my opinion much more of the problem is training and intent of the owners. If you encourage a dog to be mean there are very few that will not end up mean.

Since I ride at night I carry a deluge of weapons. Don't have a permit to carry a handgun anymore but always have pepper spray and a good chest mounted knife in case one brings me down. I'll behead the sucker hopefully before it suffocates me in it's mouth :D

Only had 3 encounters in 20 years and so far I've won all dog vs man combats.

I am thinking one of the grasscutting machetes would be effective. About 2 1/2 feet long and VERY sharp. Just don't know how to carry it so that if I fell it wouldn't cut me - but still be easy to remove.

Be pretty good for fer-de-lance too.

Honestly, we don't have an issue with these dogs out where I live, too big and too expensive to feed for the average Tico. My friend was bitten in Gringolandia. (meaning, where there are a lot of foreigners who like big savage dogs)

Tactical Ken Onion Kershaw and Taurus PT111 with Concealed Carry Permit in wallet.

I don't think either of you can be swayed from your opinions. However, I will reply for the benefit of others because I really believe that pepper spray is a great tool for the cyclist, and I have a lot of experience using it and having it used on me to back that up.

To Michigander: I have on RARE occasions heard of pepper spray canisters failing for whatever reason, but by and large they are very dependable if replaced every few years. As far as stopping power goes, you are comparing apples and oranges (humans to dogs). I have used it on very viscious dogs before and it confuses them and stops them in their tracks. It only lasts a few minutes on dogs, but you by then you could be a mile away. Additionally, batons are illegal in most places plus you have to worry about the possible civil litigation against you for it's use if the dog is injured. Even if you were in the right you still may have to defend yourself in court whereas pepper spray has no lasting effects.

Honestly, dogs are used to getting hit and bitten so in my mind (though I have never used a baton against a dog) the pepper spray is more effective at stopping them just due to the confusion factor and the fact that it causes temporary blindness.

To sdime: You would be suprised how quick you can be and really how much time you have to react when faced with that type of situation. If you keep the canister in a jersey or jacket pocket you can deploy it and never need to get off your bike. In fact, If you are going to deploy it I would recommend NOT getting off the bike. Just keep riding, really fast. I have never deployed mine from my bike (or off-duty for that matter), but I have had it out and in my hand ready to fire on more than a few different dogs before they ran off.

Respectful disagreement here. Use whatever you are comfortable with, and good luck out there.

Tactical Ken Onion Kershaw and Taurus PT111 with Concealed Carry Permit in wallet.

or that :)

You'd be surprised how often just a sharply snapped use of the word "NO!" in a command voice will stop even an aggressive dog in his tracks. Crack it out like a Drill Sargent. That's been my experience, at least.

The dogs you have to worry about aren't the barky ones, it's the head down, silent ones that are really attempting to bring you down like a deer. Do what you can do to get your bike in between you and the animal. Don't think you can out race most dogs(dobies can do about 35 easy) you need to stand and fight or until the dog loses interest and walks off. Whatever you have with you make sure you can get to it. I used to carry a Bowie knife on my seat pack until I realized if I get sideswiped by a large dog going for the head I will be pushed off my bike away from my weapon. Have something you can grab and use with something (man or dog) wrapped around your throat. Make as much noise as possible, if it's serious you'll want to wake up the entire hood.

My .02 cents.

I use pepper spray if I have time, if not -- the knife, if not that --bang bang.

HALT! spray has a belt clip on the can. I put adhesive backed velcro on my top tube and the matching piece of velcro on the spray can. Quick and easy. I discovered that the stuff does not spray as far when it is really cold outside, like in the teens.

Mean dogs are scary. No ifs, ands or buts about it. People who casually talk about poisoning dogs with anti-freeze meatballs are scary, too.

The last dog that came after me did not respond to "no" and " get away!" All i could do was outride him I don,t think I could have pepper sprayed him , he snuck up and jumped out . I pedaled my a$$ off and he stayed about three to four feet behind my feet, for a qtr. mile at 28 mph thank goodness he tired before I did. I was glad that i was riding my roadie instead of my hybrid or recumbent . :)

Deputy Jones,

Batons are NOT illegal in most places, they post date legislation on brass knuckles and black jacks and things. They are almost universaly legal to own, and commonly legal to carry, but of course its best to check laws before carrying. You seemed worried about effectiveness, and you really shouldn't be. The bigger and badder or the 2 seperate dogs I ASP'd ran off after 2 strikes. As for getting sued, I honestly figure if I kill a dog, by the time the owner finds it, its another case of I'll be a long way away.

Of course, I agree with tom. 95% of my dog encounters have been taken care of by screaming.

As for the sabre red pepper spray, I agree, its good stuff. But the problem is that they don't like selling to non law enforcement or security personnel. I reccomend Fox Labs instead.

Pepper spray DOES jam, it happened to me, and it happened to a friend of mine. Its not too likely though if you buy new canisters every year or 2.

just kick the **** out of it??

unless its a masochist dog, then it will think your playing footsies.

Let me begin by saying that I flunked out of college one year and was a 'Meter Reader' for the university, which was a resale electric company, so I had mannnnny dog encounters.

First, I don't believe we have a dog problem, we have an owner problem. I believe any dog can be 'socialized', and be a friendly, non-aggressive animal, or be an aggressive hazard to society. The difference is the owner.

In college, the worst I was hurt was when a Great Dane did a number on my face and neck. The dog was just trying to lick my face, and put its left paw on my right shoulder and was try just trying to put its right paw on my left shoulder when it raked my face and neck. The infection left scars on me for weeks. I tell this to point out that a dog can be a problem just because of it's size. The bigger the dog, the bigger the potential problem.

Personally I would do whatever is necessary to protect myself and deal with the owner later. That said, I think it is easier to deal with one dog than it is to deal with more than one dog.

As for penalty's, I think the owner should get a stiff fine unless the victim dies, in which case, the owner should go to jail.

As for protection, I think a yapper, or ankle biter is the best option. A large dog that will more likely get you sued.

Another thing is that I think that dogs are very territorial, and act very differently when the master is not present. In the presence of the owner the dog may be friendly but more aggressive when the owner is not present.

Lastly, the worst I was ever hurt while reading meters.....by something other than a dog......was by a goose. As I was reading the electric meter a goose came up behind me and pinched me about an inch away from the family jewels. It hurt so bad that I dropped to my knees and took a swing at it with my dog stick until I could get back to my feet. The geese were owned by my boss so there wasn't much I could do, but I have a healthy respect for the buggers. Nasty, noisy animals. As I recall, the romans used them as watch animals, and then the Germans used them during WWII.

You'd be surprised how often just a sharply snapped use of the word "NO!" in a command voice will stop even an aggressive dog in his tracks. Crack it out like a Drill Sargent. That's been my experience, at least.

+1, my experience as well. Yell forcefully, if it's not a situation where you can get away on the bike, get off the bike and put the bike between you and the dog, and keep it that way as you back away (most dogs don't like the fact that you've got a barrier in front of you and they'll back off). Continue to yell forcefully if necessary. If you're encountering dogs that are unusually agressive, I guess more extreme measures are in order. I've been around pit bulls that seem pretty docile, and then again I've seen a couple of pit bulls that would have to qualify as the most vicious dogs I've ever seen. In those cases, it's been clear that the dogs' owners wanted them that way and took pride in their dog's agressiveness. Pathetic in my opinion, but a danger just the same-

dog-n-driver spray, pump strapped to the seattube, just above the front derailluer on my bikes. Red bull sized can of Sabre brand spray. It's as easy to get to as pulling out a water bottle. practice by spraying a couple of pedestrians first ;) just kidding! practice pulling it out and arming it until you have to use it.

hitting a dog in the shnaus with pepper spray stops them in their tracks, no drill seargant is telling the dog to "Take it like a man, grunt!"

dog-n-driver spray, pump strapped to the seattube, just above the front derailluer on my bikes. Red bull sized can of Sabre brand spray. It's as easy to get to as pulling out a water bottle. practice by spraying a couple of pedestrians first ;) just kidding! practice pulling it out and arming it until you have to use it.

hitting a dog in the shnaus with pepper spray stops them in their tracks, no drill seargant is telling the dog to "Take it like a man, grunt!"

Nice setup Bek

The dogs you have to worry about aren't the barky ones, it's the head down, silent ones that are really attempting to bring you down like a deer. Do what you can do to get your bike in between you and the animal. Don't think you can out race most dogs(dobies can do about 35 easy) you need to stand and fight or until the dog loses interest and walks off. Whatever you have with you make sure you can get to it. I used to carry a Bowie knife on my seat pack until I realized if I get sideswiped by a large dog going for the head I will be pushed off my bike away from my weapon. Have something you can grab and use with something (man or dog) wrapped around your throat. Make as much noise as possible, if it's serious you'll want to wake up the entire hood.

My .02 cents.

I use pepper spray if I have time, if not -- the knife, if not that --bang bang.

after you do this once each encounter becomes easier and eventualy a dog will no longer chase. The barking, growling type will usualy give up after one encounter with someone who stands up to them.

I also carry some Sabre spray. Its good stuff. Usually when I am commuting I have a .45 in my backpack (because of my job) but I would NEVER, EVER level a gun at a dog in a residential neighborhood. Its just not safe. Ive used the pepper spray once, and I didnt even get a good spray on the dog, but once he smelled it, he decided that he didnt want any more of it.

I think the best bet is to shoot off some spray, and hit the big ring.

I also carry some Sabre spray. Its good stuff. Usually when I am commuting I have a .45 in my backpack (because of my job) but I would NEVER, EVER level a gun at a dog in a residential neighborhood. Its just not safe. Ive used the pepper spray once, and I didnt even get a good spray on the dog, but once he smelled it, he decided that he didnt want any more of it.

I think the best bet is to shoot off some spray, and hit the big ring.

Agreed. What is your job Fender, and is your nickname Jeep inspired?

Pitbulls as a bred are somewhat large and aggressive. But in my opinion much more of the problem is training and intent of the owners. If you encourage a dog to be mean there are very few that will not end up mean.


What a load of *****....... Animals have personalities just like humans and there are lots
of "bad" humans,mate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I'd like to hear one reason why someone should have a Pit Bull. I mean a clear logical argument that the dog covers some niche that's missed by some other breed of dog.

And pit fighting can't be the reason.

The trucker in the OP was lucky he was able to grab a collar. An attacking dog is a squirming mass of reflexes that is very difficult to hold on to. Short haired breeds like P'Bulls are even harder to grip.

My experience with dog attacks have been fortunate, just bluff charges. But, I have to think that using a mechanical means of defense would be very difficult against a large, powerful and, determined dog. One missed swing with a baton and he's gotcha. Handguns are very risky for obvious reasons, and are extremely difficult to shoot accurately under intense pressure.

The Romans, probably more than any other armed force in the world, perfected the blade for close-in conflict (and there were lots of wardogs on those battlefields). It was a very short, stabbing weapon that was designed for in-your-face warfare, wherein there was no room or time to swing a blade. They would take the charge upon their shields and wait for a opportunity to ram home a thrust into the enemy's belly, or at least, that's what the theory is. They figured out that a swing is wasteful in terms of energy and balance, and leaves an opening for an opponent. A stabbing movement is fast, accurate and can be learned quickly.

So, if you've got the chutzpah, let the dog grab your forearm (your shield), then gut him. You're going to be bitten in any case, so offer him the first thing he sees. Typically, they will go for it instinctively. Better than letting him near your throat.

No stomach for that? Get the spray stuff, and hope you hit him in where it'll do some good.

Geese? Gawd! Those things are awful!

I'd like to hear one reason why someone should have a Pit Bull. I mean a clear logical argument that the dog covers some niche that's missed by some other breed of dog.

And pit fighting can't be the reason.

Pit bulls have to be raised poorly to act poorly. Because nature built them especially well to be fighting dogs, its common for them to be raised that way. Thats why I like everyone else go on high alert when I see a pit bull. However, that doesn't alter the fact that some of the most friendly and loving dogs I've ever met are pure bread pit bulls.

Its all how they are brought up and treated by their owners.

I'd like to hear one reason why someone should have a Pit Bull. I mean a clear logical argument that the dog covers some niche that's missed by some other breed of dog.

And pit fighting can't be the reason.
Catch dogs. There is no other breed, that I know of, that is as efficient at catching wild hogs after the hounds have bayed up.

A lot of the pit bull's PR problem, is that it's a popular breed among certain people who shouldn't be allowed to own any dog.

What a load of *****....... Animals have personalities just like humans and there are lots
of "bad" humans,mate. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And just where do you think personalities come from? Might environment play a role? If so isn't the owner a pretty big part of the environment?

Catch dogs. There is no other breed, that I know of, that is as efficient at catching wild hogs after the hounds have bayed up.

A lot of the pit bull's PR problem, is that it's a popular breed among certain people who shouldn't be allowed to own any dog.

I don't know about the first part of your post (you have to admit, that's not exactly a common thing to need, a good "catch" dog for wild hogs; and I would think if the PB got into a fight with the hounds, you'd have some dead hounds on your hands).

But I agree with the second part of your post. Two pit bulls that come to my mind that were particularly bad had the worst sort of owners. One was kept inside a house I was working on, and the dog's owner intentionally left the doors to the house unlocked. He was a little guy, apparently wanted to somehow be threatening, so he explained to me that he just hoped someone would come into the house while he was gone. Clearly the dog would have done its best to kill anyone who came through the door. I was working on the outside of the house, and the dog was trying so hard to get at me I was actually concerned it was going to crash through the closed glass windows. This was a huge pit bull, an old and fat one, and the guy bragged to me about the dogs she had killed. I was so impressed.:rolleyes:

In another situation, I was sent out to look at a house that needed some repairs, and as I was walking to the front door of the house a big pit bull came at me, and I barely got away as the dog was tethered with a chain as big around as my wrist to a steel post in the middle of the front yard. The dog was absolutely vicious, I've never seen an animal so enraged. I've been bitten by dogs before, but this dog was different, he was absolutely out of his mind with rage. Oh, and it was a hot, sunny day, no shade in the yard, and the dog had no water bowl. I later told the guy who owned the property that he had an idiot living in his house and there was no way I was doing the repairs.

Both of these incidents were over twenty years ago, but those two pit bulls made a definite impression on me. I've been chased, attacked, and bitten by dogs on my bikes, but luckily have no experience with pit bulls giving me problems while riding-

You'd be surprised how often just a sharply snapped use of the word "NO!" in a command voice will stop even an aggressive dog in his tracks. Crack it out like a Drill Sargent. That's been my experience, at least.


And you would be surprised how often it doesn't. At least that is what the scar on my right ankle says. Carry mace. No problems since. Spray the eyes, and keep pedaling like mad.

Just ride with someone you can go faster than and let them deal with the dog. :)

Years ago I felt rather safe with an old silca pump with a steel campy head. I'm pretty sure any big dog could chow right through my carbon blackburn pump.

Yes:
I pepper sprayed my dogs and only got two good hits from an eight year old halt can. I think I will go to the local law enforcement sales shop and pick up some of the good stuff. :) Old stuff won't be safe for you.
Steven

As to whether or not it's a common use......it depends. It's probably not among pit bull owners in, say, Manhattan. Folks around here tend to use a dog as designed. For what the breed is for. The pit bull is a catch dog.


........and I would think if the PB got into a fight with the hounds, you'd have some dead hounds on your hands).

I've never heard of this happening while the dogs were working, and even if it did, a lone pit bull wouldn't be a match for about 3 or 4 catahoulas or black mouth curs. The only advantage the pit would have is it's weight compared to an individual hound and the ability to lock it's jaw, which is why it makes such a good catch dog. The pit bull may get one hound, but while he's on one the others would tear him up.

Anyway, any dog that wouldn't work with other dogs, would be a liability and wouldn't be around long.

Yes:
I pepper sprayed my dogs and only got two good hits from an eight year old halt can. I think I will go to the local law enforcement sales shop and pick up some of the good stuff. :) Old stuff won't be safe for you.
Steven

Precisely. Halt isn't very reliable when it gets older. Thats what jammed on me. It also isn't very strong. Saber Red on the other hand, I used to have a real old bottle of it which a cop gave to my dad for bears when he went backpacking up by Taerom, and he later gave to me. I decided at the 10 year mark to finish it off since it was so old, and use it to add zesty flavor to popcorn and some taco bell food. It burned my eyes just from the fumes! Good stuff.

This might be considered a really stupid response to the problem, but if this pit bull is running loose, call animal control. Call the cops. Even out in the middle of no-where, owners are supposed to have conrol over their animals. Check your local ordinances about leash laws, free-running dogs, and pit bulls.

And just where do you think personalities come from? Might environment play a role? If so isn't the owner a pretty big part of the environment?

Often the dog is mirrior of the owner that's true. So if the dog is an A$$ & the owner
is an A$$ then you wind up with one aggressive dog. :eek: :eek: :eek:

As to whether or not it's a common use......it depends. It's probably not among pit bull owners in, say, Manhattan. Folks around here tend to use a dog as designed. For what the breed is for. The pit bull is a catch dog.

I'm certainly not in Manhattan, in fact you might say I'm in the anti-Manhattan :D , i.e. Arkansas. I know several folks who hunt wild hogs, none of them use pit bulls to my knowledge. I think the world could do without pit bulls as "catch" dogs-

Often the dog is mirrior of the owner that's true. So if the dog is an A$$ & the owner
is an A$$ then you wind up with one aggressive dog. :eek: :eek: :eek:
OK, but how do you handle that A$$ pit bull hell-bent on tasting your flesh? I believe that's the OP. Debating how it got that way is pointless (and not on topic).