Training & Nutrition - What's with Apple Cider Vinegar?

I was looking at vitamins and supplements today, and saw shelves of Apple Cider Vinegar extract, claiming to be good for whatever ails you from weight loss to death.

Where did this come from? I looked for info online, and othough I saw hundreds of sites selling ACV products, I only found one which gave any real information. And that information was mainly explaining how modern ACV is too distilled and processed to provide any real health benefits, so you need to buy their supplements or ORGANIC cider. (Sounded like an appeal to health-food snobs, rather than real info. It also claimed that white vinegar is not vinegar at all, but a substitute derived from coal tar.)

So, what's the scoop? Is ACV actually any use? Or is this just the fad diet flavor of the month?

I do not know of what its relevence is in this case, though I caution anyone who drinks (are these suplements in capsule form or liquid) vinegar. i took it once when I used to smoke pot to pass a drug test, it worked but my a bunch of my taste buds went numb for a long time.

This site claims all sorts of miraculous remedies... http://www.ostlerscidermill.co.uk/benifits.htm


Sounds like a load of crap to me.

the only thing i've ever heard of it being useful for was passing drug tests. it screws up your p.h. level enough that in many tests the drug is undetected. my guess is it's being sold for it's drug masking capabilities, but they are not allowed to advertise it as such. so they label it as an 'ailment cure all'. people who are out to clean their urine in a hurry for a drug test know what 'ailment' it is really curing....

I can see how you lose weight with it. A swig of that stuff makes my stomach curdle and i can't eat.

Hi,
the idea is that acid will keep the fat dissolved long enough to piss it out. or something like that. Cranberry juice tastes better; if you want a 'kick' similar
to the vinegar, buy some pure cranberry concentrate. Add the concentrate to cranberry juice until it's got serious pucker power. Don't get too far from a bathroom.

I bet its a good paint thinner too.

Originally posted by late
Hi,
the idea is that acid will keep the fat dissolved long enough to piss it out. or something like that. .

Not to refute or support the weight loss aspect of apple cider vinegar (no clinical trials to prove or disprove this case) but fatty acids are not pissed out although Late may have a point.

Pancreatic lipase (from the pancreas) breaks fat up into smaller chain molecules (monoglycerides and fatty acids) so the small intestinal cells can reuptake it into the blood stream etc. Their fate from there depends on fatty acid chain length.... longer ones are reesterified into triglycerides ( a cholesterol molecule) and secreted into intestinal lymph. The shorter to medium chain fatty acids are not incorporated into cholesterol molecules like triglycerides but rapidly renter venous system and bound to albumin.


In theory, apple cider vinegar, with a ph similar to acetic acid, might interfere with the oil water interface of dietary fat. This interface has to be cleared so the pancreatic lipase enzyme can break down the dietary fat into the smaller chain molecules so it can be absorbed...otherwise it gets $hitted out. However, in order for it to work I can imagine having to gulp down cups of apple cider vinegar with each meal rather than the pruported tablespoon. (That's why clinical trials need to be done) There are none as of today. As I stated above, just drinking that crap is a great appetite suppressant itself.

Apple cider vinegar results in instant weight loss - from your wallet.

There are no shortage of frauds out there. They used to call this sort of thing Patent Medicine, snake oil, or more generically a panacea.

It also used to be illegal to make claims about products unless you could back them up. Since Congress passed the Dietary Supplement Act some years ago, all they appear to have to do is state in the fine print that the product is not intended to treat or cure any disease or condition.

Originally posted by cbhungry
In theory, apple cider vinegar, with a ph similar to acetic acid, might interfere with the oil water interface of dietary fat. This interface has to be cleared so the pancreatic lipase enzyme can break down the dietary fat into the smaller chain molecules so it can be absorbed...otherwise it gets $hitted out.

Fat doesn't seem to have any problem contending with stomach acid in the digestive system.

Fat doesn't seem to have any problem contending with stomach acid in the digestive system

This is an erroneous and simplistic interpretation of the digestive process.

Stomach acid stays in the stomach. The Ph in the small intestines where the fat is dissolved is neutral or close to 7. The Ph in the stomach is 3.0 or less, no fat digestion or absorption occurs in the stomach Read my post. It stated small intestinial cells are the ones that absorb the fat once broken down. I don't give apple cider any credit but like a true scientist, I will not automatically refute an idea without studies to disprove it as well as prove it's ability to claim what it does.


Oil water interfaces do not allow mixing for the pancreatic lipase enzyme to work well so the weak acid that is near neutral (ph close to 6.7-6.9) allows that interface to break down, Mix oil in water and see what happens..they seperate. Mix oil and water and vinegar, get better results ie: voila salad dressing or better emulsified fatty droplets. ( Still has to shake it up a little though)


100 years ago in a small Massachusetts town the physicians discrediited a woman for treating dropsy (congestive heart failure) with fox glove herb. 20 years later, we found out the fox glove contained digitalis, a potent congestive heart failure medicne.

Just trying to show that not all of us in the medical community automatically discredits alternative remedies.

With that said, I don't agree that is has to be the more pricey apple cider vinegar since it's the weak acid effect of any vinegar that theoretically would work. But this is all conjecture since there are no studies to support or refute the claims of apple cider vinegar.

apple cider vinigar, plus cajun spice and steak spice is vey good for smoke ribs recipe

Although I am not a scientist, from what I can determine stomach acid reacts with food to form a substance called chyme. Chyme has a very low ph (around 2) as it enters the small intestine. One in the intestines, the body neutralizes the acid in the chyme to a neutral ph for digestion.

What I cannot reconcile is how vinegar would stay separated from the liquid stomach acid so as to leave the stomach acid behind in the stomach. Nor can I determine how the chyme is able to separate itself from the stomach acid before entering the small intestine. Also, it seems that if the small intestine is capable of neutralizing the very low ph of the chyme, then the addition of a couple tablespoons of vinegar would hardly have any effect on digestion. Even large amounts of vinegar would seem to pale in comparison to the very low ph of chyme.

However, given that web sites promoting the use of ACV claim (or at least imply) that ACV will cure everything from obesity to hair loss, I would suspect that all claims made are based on something other than science.

Look for unpasturized apple cider vinegar in liquid or capsules...Its got to be unpasturized...Haven't you heard the old saying an apple a day keeps the Dr. away.Apples are loaded with enzemes,potassium,vitamins and minerals.take a couple of teaspoon full once a day or every other day in a glass of water

Exactly, I agree. If it's going to work you would think a whole 2- 3 pints worth would be needed rather than the touted tablespoon with each meal.


Almost no fluid absorption occurs in the stomach (most in the large colon in a region called the cecum) so that most of the liquid gets dumped into the small intestines...intact. A weak acetic acid like vinegar is not going to make a whole lot of difference in a environment with a ph 2-3 and there probably isn't much exchange of the -HCO3 and H3+ ions and cations.

The gastric emptying time for most people is less than 10-15 minutes, and in many faster.... 1-3 minutes. So much of the vinegar probably gets expelled from the stomach relatively intact if a large enough volume is consumed.

Most of the chyme is actually neutralized by bile salt acids quite quickly. Since bile salts are "lipophilic" there probably remains a good barrier between it and the more "hydrophillic " vinegar. Thus on a molecular scale, the Van der Waal's forces keep the lipophilic bile and chyme relatively separate from the water, acetic acids etc.

This is all postulation because no clinical trials have been done and the human body is too complex to even elucidate the mechanism of action until studied.

Like you, I don't like the fact that the legal system in place allows non- prescription medicines to tout cures for every known ailment of mankind without any clinical basis. In the meantime, a prescription counterpart, (which may be actually a lot safer), has to declare the 1 in a million adverse side effect.


Apple cider is so innocuos I don't have much of a problem if people don't mind wasting their money....I figure it can't hurt, it might even help. On the other hand, diet drugs, kava kava etc. is a whole different story.

Of course, I just thought of the fact that apple cider vinegar may contain a coenzyme factor that inhibits pancreatic lipase action, in which case, a miniscule amount would only be needed. The diet drug orlistat or Xenical is similar analog. It is a competative pancreatic lipase inhibitor. A small pill with each meal blocks 33% the action of pancreatic lipase and therefore 33% of the fat taken in is not absorbed. It's probably one of the safer dietary drugs out there if you don't mind greasy, oily stools and lots of flatulance.

Too bad the NIH (National Institute of Health) won't fund a study on apple cider vinegar. I'd try to refute the web site claims.

Apple cider vinegar will thin blood out a bit...shouldn't amount to anything to hurt?

apple cider vinegar has all the goodness of apples only in a very highly consintrated form...And that old saying a apple a day keeps the Dr. away is true because the stuff is so darn healthy for you...Listen you can do yourself good on one hand and do yourself in on the other hand...thats not apple cider vinegars fault

Originally posted by chip
apple cider vinegar has all the goodness of apples only in a very highly consintrated form...And that old saying a apple a day keeps the Dr. away is true because the stuff is so darn healthy for you...Listen you can do yourself good on one hand and do yourself in on the other hand...thats not apple cider vinegars fault

Last I knew, making vinegar of any kind was accomplished by taking an alcoholic liquid (wine, cider, etc), and adding mother of vinegar to it. The mother of vinegar converts the alcohol to acetic acid and lo! you have vinegar.

Nowhere in the process do I recall any concentration of the input or output product though it certainly could be done. You could also eat dried apples if you want a concentrated form of apples. You may have some of the vitamins and proteins from the original apple present in the final product. You will lose most, if not all, of the sugars originally present in the apple juice as it would have been converted to alcohol by the yeast used in fermenting the cider.

Although there would certainly be a few byproducts produced by the yeast, it's hard to see any nutritional benefit of drinking cider or cider vinegar versus drinking apple juice or just eating the apple.

I would suggest anyone wanting all the benefits of an apple to simply eat an apple. They're cheap and readily available everywhere.

FYI - ACS applied to sunburn works wonders!! My mother used it on me as a kid and I still use it if I get burned. You smell like a salad, but it kills the burn almost immediately. Who knows why, it just works.

As for drinking it - I prefer cahmpagne!! Tastes better by far!!!

The real answer to any good weight loss program is exercise, exercise, exercise!! Get up early and ride on an empty stomach (no more than 90 minutes) and you will drop pounds like crazy!! I lost 26 lbs. in less than six months this way. The other trick it to drink a LOT of water during the day. and start eating healthy!! I'm not sure why it works, but I can attest to the fact that it does!!

Bill

I look at apple cider vinegar has a natural steroid..you add garlic to that you make it stronger..and if you add cayenne to that you make it more effective also ..the only problem with all of this is it seems to increase appetite also..thats the problem I find with it?

Originally posted by supcom
Last I knew, making vinegar of any kind was accomplished by taking an alcoholic liquid (wine, cider, etc), and adding mother of vinegar to it. The mother of vinegar converts the alcohol to acetic acid and lo! you have vinegar.

Nowhere in the process do I recall any concentration of the input or output product though it certainly could be done. You could also eat dried apples if you want a concentrated form of apples. You may have some of the vitamins and proteins from the original apple present in the final product. You will lose most, if not all, of the sugars originally present in the apple juice as it would have been converted to alcohol by the yeast used in fermenting the cider.

Although there would certainly be a few byproducts produced by the yeast, it's hard to see any Ynutritional benefit of drinking cider or cider vinega


Yup dried apples should be real good for you?









r versus drinking apple juice or just eating the apple.

I would suggest anyone wanting all the benefits of an apple to simply eat an apple. They're cheap and readily available everywhere.

Originally posted by wlevey
The other trick it to drink a LOT of water during the day. and start eating healthy!! I'm not sure why it works, but I can attest to the fact that it does!!

Bill

Finally someone else that speaks of the greatest diet aid in the world, water. Eat a balanced diet and drink lots of water, why? you say. not only does your body need it but it helps to give you that full feeling in your stomach so you don't get hunger cravings.

I'll take your advise and drink more water...thanks a lot:rolleyes:

Originally posted by chip
I look at apple cider vinegar has a natural steroid..you add garlic to that you make it stronger..and if you add cayenne to that you make it more effective also ..the only problem with all of this is it seems to increase appetite also..thats the problem I find with it?

I look at a hamburger as a natural antidepressant. You add fries to that you make it stronger. You add a milkshake and you make it more effective yet.

Are you saying that if you inject ACV near a herniated disk it will relieve the pain? Or are you claiming that consumption of ACV will cause your muscles to bulk up? All in addition to its unbelievable (and I do mean unbelievable) weight loss properties.

This stuff is surely a miracle product!;)

I don't think it will make muscles bulk up...but it fires you up eh?..It gets you going so you want to have a work out...but I think it makes a person hungry to..so I may of been burning weight but I was eating too much and gaining also

Originally posted by chip
I don't think it will make muscles bulk up...but it fires you up eh?..It gets you going so you want to have a work out...but I think it makes a person hungry to..so I may of been burning weight but I was eating too much and gaining also

It just made me want to throw up! Maybe that's the diet plan: Twisted bulimia of some sort...:D

Originally posted by chip
..but I think it makes a person hungry to..so I may of been burning weight but I was eating too much and gaining also

Maybe that explains why I haven't been able to stop eating for three days!!! :eek: